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Still think Rooney should be in the team, he's one of few players that are top notch players in the team. But due to his creativity and passing range his best position is probably as a deep-lying striker now, sort of biding midfield and attack - like he has played for United this season. Whether he can play in that role depends on the tactic of course, but leaving him out of the national team would be a very odd choice in my opinion.

A midfield of Cleverley, Parker and Wilshere would be excellent though, and is perhaps the best England can muster now (and it's far from crap). That midfield three would have both grit, ball retention and creativity, and would look a lot more modern than Gerrard and Lampard.

One could also go with for example Parker and Wilshere as the central two, with Rooney ahead of them linking midfield and attack. Then Welbeck or perhaps Sturridge up front (IMO he is best centrally but hasn't been given a proper chance there yet). With Young on the left and one of the Arsenal duo on the right (think I'd prefer Oxlaide actually as he is a more intelligent footballer to me). That wouldn't be a bad bunch either.

Untypically, England are actually a little short at the back right now, which is probably why Terry is still in with a shout. Going with a central pair of Smalling and Cahill wouldn't be bad, with Jones as contender or starter, or even as right back (he is too marauding at CB for me right now, leaving dangerous gaps). Cole isn't the player he was but is perhaps still the best there, so that would make a team like this. Just a suggestion

Hart

Jones/Richards - Cahill - Smalling - Cole

Parker - Wilshere

Oxlaide - Rooney - Young

Welbeck/Sturridge

Probably not a team that would beat the best in the world, but England doesn't have players capable of doing that consistently anyway. This would give them a lot more energy with younger and more motivated players, of a more modern mould. Get this lot playing together for the next two years and see what they can do in Brazil. (With the slight caveat of Parker's (and Cole's) state in two years).

Of course, the press would be over them like a pack of wild dogs should they draw a game against, well, anyone really, so a new manager would have the biggest balls in the business if he would do something like this and stick with it.

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Rooney is an excellent footballer and the type of player you should be able to build a team around. My problem is that when you do that the opposition know exactly how to beat you - give Rooney a few knocks and he'll eventually retaliate and get himself sent off. Or even banned for the entire group phase of an upcoming international tournament. The solution would be to keep him in the squad and probably the side but not as the fulcrum. If he's the gravy rather than the meat and potatoes he becomes less of a target.

England have to come up with a style of play that suits most of their better players and then stick with it, rather than pick their best 11 players and then think about the formation later (as I suspect Redknapp will almost certainly do). The system you moot, Pangaea, is actually pretty much the system we used to great effect in World Cup qualifying, except with obviously a more goalscoring-oriented forward. The one issue with the system is Rooney's replacement when he's suspended/out of form/injured. Gerrard is the obvious choice but Liverpool don't even use him there any more. I suspect his legs are going.

I think we should go for a 2007-era Man Utd sort of system. 4-3-3 with the front 3 all working hard and swapping positions. Young, Rooney, Sturridge and I suspect Oxlade and Johnson would all be comfortable with this. Then a midfield of Parker, Cleverley and Wilshere would have a lovely blend of creativity, ball retention and presence for difficult games, whilst you could bring in a box-to-boxer for the games where we'll expect to be on the front foot and need support getting to the front 3 more often.

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Just watching the Daily Politics, aside from McLaren being conveniently forgotten with the 'time for an english manager', Nigel Farage genunely said that 'no one could have done a worse job that Capello' and that caused me to say a rather loud 'What!' (which is mostly the only way I react when watching tv, but rarely that strong).

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....and if Barry Fry is any indication, you're viewed with suspicion even within the coaching fraternity.....

Who ever cared what Barry Fry has to say? I don't think anything he says has ever been taken seriously. And the word 'coach' can only be loosely applied to him anyway! :p

Seriously!

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Stone Roses: I Wanna Be Adored

The Beatles: Revolution #9, I Am The Walrus

The Smiths: Panic

The Smiths, I find, only sound good when they're being covered.

I'm shocked! You don't deserve to have ears! ;):p

The Smiths are amazing! Try Hatful of Hollow - not a bad song on that album!

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For me, the lack of a good English striker is what hamstrings us. And don't tell me about Wayne Rooney, he's not IMO.

I miss Euro '96. I want Shearer and Sheringham again. :D

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Both a fluid 4-3-3 and the 4-2-3-1 can work well, and England have the players for it. Think both Cleverley and Wilshere can replace Rooney in the latter system as they are offensively minded and creative. Gerrard used to be very good in that role, but he isn't the player he was either.

It would fly right in the face of going "Germany", but given his statements after the WC and coming out of retirement, I wonder if Scholes would be interested this time around. Not a bad guy to have around in the squad given his creativity and ability to control the pace of a game.

Agree delta, people are jumping on Capello's back now, and have for quite some time, but he has actually done well with England. He is of course tainted by the heavy loss to Germany, but that was (and is) a great side filled with enormous talent. It took Spain to beat them, and they only did by 1-0 if I remember correct. It's an ungrateful job to have, and he hasn't been treated the way he deserves, just like practically every England manager the last 10-20 years.

Watching TV isn't good for your mental health. Too much crap on there with seemingly the only point to get your blood flowing, either via hot chicks or idiotic statements like the one you mention.

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I'm shocked! You don't deserve to have ears! ;):p

The Smiths are amazing! Try Hatful of Hollow - not a bad song on that album!

I've heard all the Smiths albums. I gave them a chance! My big problem is that I didn't grow up with the British indie scene in the 80's-90's

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I miss Euro '96. I want Shearer and Sheringham again. :D

Oh god yes! And we had Les Ferdinand and Andy (I'm not calling you Andrew so give it up) Cole in the form of their lives who couldn't even get in the side.

Both a fluid 4-3-3 and the 4-2-3-1 can work well, and England have the players for it. Think both Cleverley and Wilshere can replace Rooney in the latter system as they are offensively minded and creative. Gerrard used to be very good in that role, but he isn't the player he was either.

It would fly right in the face of going "Germany", but given his statements after the WC and coming out of retirement, I wonder if Scholes would be interested this time around. Not a bad guy to have around in the squad given his creativity and ability to control the pace of a game.

Agree delta, people are jumping on Capello's back now, and have for quite some time, but he has actually done well with England. He is of course tainted by the heavy loss to Germany, but that was (and is) a great side filled with enormous talent. It took Spain to beat them, and they only did by 1-0 if I remember correct. It's an ungrateful job to have, and he hasn't been treated the way he deserves, just like practically every England manager the last 10-20 years.

Watching TV isn't good for your mental health. Too much crap on there with seemingly the only point to get your blood flowing, either via hot chicks or idiotic statements like the one you mention.

I'd say Cleverley possibly could play the link role but Wilshere would find it difficult. He's very much a deep-lying midfielder, no matter how much the English media like to paint him as some sort of creative genius laying on assists and goals by the dozen. He retains the ball well and sets the tempo but he's not the final-ball guy. As much as he probably could be given the range of his abilities, it'd be shoehorning another square peg into a round hole.

I think Scholes would be excellent to have as a non-playing squad member (non-playing not because he'd be poor but because we have to look forward) to set an example and help guide a new generation of players in avoiding the pitfalls of international football.

My major problem with TV debate is that conjecture passed as fact, unfounded opinions and downright lies go around completely unchallenged. People have been saying that Capello wanted to keep Terry as captain after a mistranslation has gone completely unchecked and is now accepted as what he actually said. Capello only said that it should have been his decision and not the FA's, and that they created a problem for him. Morons like the guy deltablue mentioned spout absolute rubbish and noone pulls them up on it. It's almost like they're doing improv where you can never say no. If people were called out to back up their ridiculous assertions then they'd be rightly made to look like fools and their stupid opinions would be devalued as they should be. Since there's no challenge it becomes the accepted view and people will just blindly agree.

Perhaps it's linked to the culture of anti-intellectualism in this country. It's so deep seated that a word like "clever" has negative connotations. "He's been clever there". "Too clever by half".

Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello. Four genuinely top-class football managers in my lifetime with outstanding records before taking the England job who were vilified by the press, two of whose career was effectively ruined by it. You'd have thought that calling for Robson's head for years only to see England reach the semi-finals in 1990 would be enough to make the papers have a look at themselves but they've only gotten worse. People showered him with spit because the papers told them he was useless for god's sake.

We as a nation didn't deserve any of those four men. Far too good for us to a man.

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Agree with everything there except for the inclusion of Graham Taylor as a 'genuinely top class football manager'. :D

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Agree with everything there except for the inclusion of Graham Taylor as a 'genuinely top class football manager'. :D

Pre-England he had three management positions, promotions with each including Division 4 to Division 1 in 5-seasons with Watford, Division 1 runners-up with Watford, and Villa, and an FA Cup final with Watford as well. The only team stopping him winning a Division 1 title with Watford (I keep repeating it because it's bloody Watford) was Bob Paisley's Liverpool.

Top-class.

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Pre-England he had three management positions, promotions with each including Division 4 to Division 1 in 5-seasons with Watford, Division 1 runners-up with Watford, and Villa, and an FA Cup final with Watford as well. The only team stopping him winning a Division 1 title with Watford (I keep repeating it because it's bloody Watford) was Bob Paisley's Liverpool.

Top-class.

Didn't he do so with extremely unsophisticated 'route one' tactics at a time when the English game was itself quite tactically unsophisticated?

Wasn't he more or less found out at international level when managing England?

I was aware that his club management record was pretty impressive but I don't think he was what I would call top class. English football was in a very different state in this era. It also seems to me that he was left found wanting in a big way whilst managing England.

I won't pretend to be an expert. Some of his exploits with Watford, I know little about, and I certainly wasn't old enough to experience them first hand. I do, however, remember much of the England era under Taylor - I was old enough then - and to quote the man himself, 'do I not like that'! :D

That documentary following Taylor's 1994 World Cup Qualifying campaign with England doesn't paint a good picture of the man either. Some of the footage of him on the bench shows him to be way out of his depth both tactically and otherwise!

You really think that guy is top class? :p

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Have you seen the full documentary that those clips are taken from? I have. Clearly he's no Sacchi in terms of his tactics, but there's a couple of bits in there where he's giving specific instructions to the players, and the next bit is footage for the game where the players do the exact opposite of what he's asked them to do. So he was probably a good fit in terms of sophistication really. My favourite bit in fact is where he gives substitute Nigel Clough a 10-15 second description of where he wants him to play, I think it basically boiled down to the base of a midfield diamond to allow Gascoigne more freedom. Clough's response? "...So you want me to play on the left?"

I'd definitely recommend watching it, the interactions with the press are very interesting as well.

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Just found the other bit I like:

Training ground: "We don't want to get caught on the break."

Match: England give away possession and get caught on the break.

Training ground: "Don't give away any silly fouls."

Match: Ince gets booked and suspended for a needless foul.

Perhaps top class is a bridge too far, but he certainly was no turnip.

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What I find even more gutting to Capello's treatment by the press, is how Eriksson was hounded out. He was downright vilified by the press en masse - after taking England to three consecutive tournament quarter finals. Okay, so he misused Paul Scholes and tried to shoehorn Lampard and Gerrard into the team (a recurring theme for England managers). But you can't argue with his results.

Managing England is a poisoned chalice. It's a nightmarish media circus that only Real Madrid can approach.

Partly I think the media love-in with Redknapp right now is because they know he'll give them headlines and they can tear into him like no tomorrow, like they are used to. He will make statements they can make soundbites and big-font headlines out of. I wish him the best of luck if he takes on the job either soon or after the Euros. He sure as hell will need it.

What are your thoughts on Martin O'Neill. Think he has done very well up through the years and is a very good manager. Wouldn't mind seeing him take the job, though I guess it's not very likely given he has just taken over Sunderland.

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Have you seen the full documentary that those clips are taken from? I have. Clearly he's no Sacchi in terms of his tactics, but there's a couple of bits in there where he's giving specific instructions to the players, and the next bit is footage for the game where the players do the exact opposite of what he's asked them to do. So he was probably a good fit in terms of sophistication really. My favourite bit in fact is where he gives substitute Nigel Clough a 10-15 second description of where he wants him to play, I think it basically boiled down to the base of a midfield diamond to allow Gascoigne more freedom. Clough's response? "...So you want me to play on the left?"

I'd definitely recommend watching it, the interactions with the press are very interesting as well.

Just found the other bit I like:

Training ground: "We don't want to get caught on the break."

Match: England give away possession and get caught on the break.

Training ground: "Don't give away any silly fouls."

Match: Ince gets booked and suspended for a needless foul.

Perhaps top class is a bridge too far, but he certainly was no turnip.

Yeah, I've seen the full documentary. :thup:

Agree with the last line of your post. :)

Moving on, who does everyone want for England now? Harry Redknapp seems the popular choice.

I'm kind of excited about the idea of Redknapp for England. Could it be Terry Venables and Euro '96 all over again? In a way, it does remind me of the that era. There are slight parallels at least anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think England will dramatically improve or have any amazing success with Redknapp in charge. But I do think we know what we'll get from Redknapp. He is a no nonsense manager who you suspect will motivate the players and manage with some much needed common sense. I'd be very interested to see where we would go with Redknapp in charge. I have a feeling we wouldn't exactly move forward very much but that watching England might become more entertaining and enjoyable at the least.

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What I find even more gutting to Capello's treatment by the press, is how Eriksson was hounded out. He was downright vilified by the press en masse - after taking England to three consecutive tournament quarter finals. Okay, so he misused Paul Scholes and tried to shoehorn Lampard and Gerrard into the team (a recurring theme for England managers). But you can't argue with his results.

Managing England is a poisoned chalice. It's a nightmarish media circus that only Real Madrid can approach.

Partly I think the media love-in with Redknapp right now is because they know he'll give them headlines and they can tear into him like no tomorrow, like they are used to. He will make statements they can make soundbites and big-font headlines out of. I wish him the best of luck if he takes on the job either soon or after the Euros. He sure as hell will need it.

What are your thoughts on Martin O'Neill. Think he has done very well up through the years and is a very good manager. Wouldn't mind seeing him take the job, though I guess it's not very likely given he has just taken over Sunderland.

Eriksson's treatment was certainly despicable. I think with just a couple of slices of extra luck we could have quite possibly won something under him. Certainly we would have reached a couple of semi-finals. World Cup 2002 we'd have had a much better chance with a fully fit Beckham, and Gerrard didn't even make the squad IIRC - I'd certainly have backed us to do better against a 10-man Brazil with those two fit and firing. Euro 2004 obviously the injury to Rooney totally threw us off when we were playing the best football out of anyone. I really thought we'd win that one if we were going to win anything at the time. World Cup 2006 was Rooney being stupid, Owen being injured, and Carragher forgetting that you have to wait for the whistle. Although to be fair he made a rod for his own back in that tournament by taking Walcott and then not using him once.

If I were Harry I'd stay well away. He's got an excellent job at Spurs with a fantastic team and board that give him their full backing. I've got no love for old melty-face but I wouldn't wish the England job on my worst enemy.

I think we have to be quite careful about discussing Martin, he's got good (and vigilant) lawyers. He's done a good job wherever he has gone, and whilst as a Newcastle fan it pains me to say it, clearly Sunderland are one of the best teams in the country right now. Again I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but if we're merely discussing who would do the best job regardless of availability, he should be in that discussion.

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Yeah, I've seen the full documentary. :thup:

Agree with the last line of your post. :)

Moving on, who does everyone want for England now? Harry Redknapp seems the popular choice.

I'm kind of excited about the idea of Redknapp for England. Could it be Terry Venables and Euro '96 all over again? In a way, it does remind me of the that era. There are slight parallels at least anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think England will dramatically improve or have any amazing success with Redknapp in charge. But I do think we know what we'll get from Redknapp. He is a no nonsense manager who you suspect will motivate the players and manage with some much needed common sense. I'd be very interested to see where we would go with Redknapp in charge. I have a feeling we wouldn't exactly move forward very much but that watching England might become more entertaining and enjoyable at the least.

Harry Redknapp is the media's choice. Be careful not to confuse that with popular opinion.

I think short term we'd be much like we were under Sven. We'd probably get through the group stage and maybe beat a slightly weaker or similar team in the knockouts if they're having an off day. Under his management any decent side would annihilate us. He just doesn't have the tactical nous to set up a defence against a top side. See Real Madrid v Spurs. It'll be nice to not have a massive cloud of negativity surrounding every England game, but that's entirely a construct of the media anyway.

Ditch the old guy, besmirch his reputation, ignore his successes, bleat about his failures; find the new guy, sell him as the best manager, laud his successes, ignore his failures, wait until he gets a poor result then rinse and repeat. If the definition of insanity is repeating the same course of action expecting different results then they're all batshit mental.

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Ditch the old guy, besmirch his reputation, ignore his successes, bleat about his failures; find the new guy, sell him as the best manager, laud his successes, ignore his failures, wait until he gets a poor result then rinse and repeat. If the definition of insanity is repeating the same course of action expecting different results then they're all batshit mental.

Love that paragraph :thup:

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I agree with the chap who said' Brian Clough would be my first choice, but he's dead'. That aside, having heard Benitez as an idea, I feel that unlikely though it is, it could work.

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Even though I reckon Redknapp will take the job, I don't think he's the step forward that the FA needs to take. Unfortunately, I feel he'll fall back on the old brigade of Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry etc, unwilling to take the risk needed on some of the youngsters. At least Capello had started to learn the lessons of the World Cup, recognising the fact that Ferdinand, Lampard and the like, were past their best, and was starting to blood players such as Cleverly, Walker, Smalling, Jones into the squad, knowing that this crop of players would be needed for the future.

I'd see Redknapp's appointment as a short-term solution, lasting no longer than Euro 2016. I'd much rather the FA appointed someone younger, with a pedigree of developing a team over a number of years. I'm also not that bothered if they're English or not; they just need to have a revolutionary approach and be willing to take a risk.

Will the FA have the balls to do this? I very much doubt it.

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[video=youtube;-52TY3yyVXk]

For some reason I love headed goals from open play on FM, they don't happen too often and I find most goals are either a nice striker finish or a long shot. Goals like these I love more than any other type.

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I love a lovely swirling cross from deep clattered in by a striker or the opposite winger at the far post - as you say they're quite rare in FM so that makes them even more enjoyable.

Even though I reckon Redknapp will take the job, I don't think he's the step forward that the FA needs to take. Unfortunately, I feel he'll fall back on the old brigade of Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry etc, unwilling to take the risk needed on some of the youngsters. At least Capello had started to learn the lessons of the World Cup, recognising the fact that Ferdinand, Lampard and the like, were past their best, and was starting to blood players such as Cleverly, Walker, Smalling, Jones into the squad, knowing that this crop of players would be needed for the future.

I'd see Redknapp's appointment as a short-term solution, lasting no longer than Euro 2016. I'd much rather the FA appointed someone younger, with a pedigree of developing a team over a number of years. I'm also not that bothered if they're English or not; they just need to have a revolutionary approach and be willing to take a risk.

Will the FA have the balls to do this? I very much doubt it.

Each England manager is a reaction to the previous one. Eriksson's cool and calculated approach was the opposite of Keegan's one-of-the-lads schtick. McClaren was the Englishman who would shout and have passion on the touchline after Eriksson's dodgy untrustworthy foreign-ness. Capello was the disciplinarian after "Stevie G and JT" McClaren was too cosy with his players. Now we'll get another shouty passiony English tactical neanderthal after Capello the dodgy untrustworthy foreign does-he-even-care-about-the-job (not like he missed his son's wedding to take charge of an England friendly) useless manager who anyone could have done better than even though he's the most successful manager of the last 20 years.

We occasionally get the manager we need by accident and then hound him out for the manager we deserve because everything he doesn't do must be the answer. He must be sacrificed and his grave danced on merrily by fat sports editors up and down the country.

We had the manager we needed, it's now time for the one we deserve. God help us.

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Martin O'Neill would be perfect for England great man management and can get the best out of youth players and would give them a chance to have a strong and internationaly experienced squad. But not going to happen.

Agree with AK22 think Redknapp would go back to the old boys but get them playing better so short term would likely be better but need the young players getting bleed in. Capello left a philosophy of how to play from the back which is the right idea but never got it fully in place feel next manager needs to take from that but give more freedom higher up the pitch. Redknapp is the best British choice maybe available so can see why he fav.

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Who ever cared what Barry Fry has to say? I don't think anything he says has ever been taken seriously. And the word 'coach' can only be loosely applied to him anyway! :p

Seriously!

Valid. :D

(10 characters, etc.)

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Even though I reckon Redknapp will take the job, I don't think he's the step forward that the FA needs to take. Unfortunately, I feel he'll fall back on the old brigade of Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry etc, unwilling to take the risk needed on some of the youngsters. At least Capello had started to learn the lessons of the World Cup, recognising the fact that Ferdinand, Lampard and the like, were past their best, and was starting to blood players such as Cleverly, Walker, Smalling, Jones into the squad, knowing that this crop of players would be needed for the future.

I'd see Redknapp's appointment as a short-term solution, lasting no longer than Euro 2016. I'd much rather the FA appointed someone younger, with a pedigree of developing a team over a number of years. I'm also not that bothered if they're English or not; they just need to have a revolutionary approach and be willing to take a risk.

Will the FA have the balls to do this? I very much doubt it.

That's what worries me too with him. Capello had started to blood in the talented youngsters now, so what England need is to continue that development. I'd like to see him drop Terry, Rio and Lampard in particular, and perhaps even Gerrard. Get in the new generation right away. Unfortunately I don't think Harry will do that. I can see him taking all four oldies to the Euros and starting them.

Like SnakeXe says, Capello is what England needed. Now he has left the circus tent so it's time for some other monkey to dance.

Once again, the FA does a splendid job. As does the gutter press. In four month's time they'll be ridiculing the new guy, which is probably Redknapp. Soon after that, at the latest when England crash and burn in Brazil, they'll be asking for a foreign manager with mettle again.

It's like a grown-up version of taking a toy from a kid that she isn't playing. "Ueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! I want that!!!" There's just a bit of delay between the removal of the toy and the uncontrollable cries and rants.

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Okay, so I'll just give my opinion on the Capello debate seen as I haven't been around this past day :D

In my eyes, the FA have done us over again. Giving Capello a new contract before the World Cup was ridiculous, he then went and failed in South Africa although in my eyes he did well as I wasn't expecting us to get out of the group stages. However, there was a lot of pressure on him and Germany had an excellent team, a team we should be looking to take at the Euros. When I say team, I mean youngsters with the odd old head there. They had the pace and experience to wipe us aside. Just look at our goalscorer in that game: Matthew Upson. Has he featured in the squad since? No, I don't think so. When Sven(?) took Walcott to the 2006 World Cup he was doing the right think, a youngster at that age would have hugely benefited from it and maybe should have started 1 of the group games but where it went wrong was not taking him to the next World Cup. Now what I'm saying is this: you take players that have great potential and are young enough to feature in the next World Cup European Championship whatever. Walcott did little if anything in 2006 but if he'd have gone in 2010 he'd have had the experience, the homesickness etc wouldn't be there and then would be a much better player. Do you see what I'm saying?

Now if I was the manager of England now, I would take players such as Alex Oxlade Chamberlin, Daniel Sturridge and Danny Welbeck. Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc have had their chance, they've done nothing. These youngsters that are coming through should go to the European Championships, get the tournament experience and then go to the World Cup. Do you really think Lampard and Gerrard will be going to Brazil? I don't. If we take a 23(?) man squad to these European Championships and only 13 or so go to World Cup then the team is yet again not as strong/bonded. If we take a whole bunch of youngsters with old heads that deserve to captain and play for their country (Scott Parker for one example) then the next World Cup when the youngsters are settled Premier League players with 10/20 England caps under their belt and that tournament experience then maybe we will get further than the Quarters? I think we would. Again I hope you all see what I'm saying.

Now on the Capello matter, I'm glad he's gone. I didn't like his style of play and the fact he's Italian. The next manager has to be English and shouldn't be Harry (come on, he's guility). But I don't hold anything against Capello, he was right to stand down and was unfairly treated by the media. Headlines such as: EASY when the World Cup group stage came out was not neccessairy at all, like the calling the baby Rooney advert. That still doesn't make me think I'm being harsh that I'm happy he has gone. Yes okay, we beat Spain but if you look at the stats of the game I think they had 65% maybe 70 of the possession, 20 odd shots at goal and we had about 3. In any competitive game the Spanish players would have murdered us.

We didn't even comfortably qualify for the Euros, we drew with Montenegro, we drew with Switzerland in a game where he tried out the odd different player and we had nothing upfront apart from the 2 goals and the D. Bent miss. Then if we'd have played Wales (H) when they had hit the gold with that fine play and great football they would have taken points from Wembley. We were edgey and easy to score past all the way through the qualifiers and I reckon we'll be mullered in the Championships.

Stuart Pearce should be the next England manager in my eyes, give him a contract till September (none of this temporary crap) give him a full time, permenant contract till September. Let him take the youngsters he knows so well to the Euros, expect to struggle in the Group Stages and then make sure the FA and him communicate on what his plans for the World Cup are. Tell him they don't want odd players picking up odd caps etc. I think it will benefit us greatly. An example of a waste of a cap (or however you want to put it), Kevin Davies, you can argue he deserved the 30 minutes run out but it's not as though he has been seen in the England set up since. I think I've made my point :p

Okay, maybe I rambled a bit but I love a debate where I have a strong opinion on and I thought I'd share my view with you. Just one example of a strong bonded team: (well 2), there was a country (Russia region) that played the best club team players in their league with the tactics formation etc because they were all that nationallity (it might have been Albania). Also the Spanish set up is brilliantly, English clubs are allowed to call back players from U21,20 and 19 tournaments. It resulted in around 70 call backs from clubs in the U20 World Cup. What use is that to us? It's not. In Spain you're not allowed to do that so the first team players have played a lot and I mean a lot of Under 20's etc games, if the same players are playing with the same people all the way through to the first team it's going to mightly benefit them and you can't say it wont because look at Spain: European Champions 2008, World Champions 2010. Okay we don't have them quality players but I believe we could make it to the Semis at least with a strong bonded team, which we haven't had for years.

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Did you have finger ache after that HotChocolate? :p.

I would be dropping Terry, Rio, Lampard etc as well.

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Psycho :cool:.

Something isn't right with me today.

Did you have finger ache after that HotChocolate? :p.

I would be dropping Terry, Rio, Lampard etc as well.

Do you know, I'm not quite sure how I didn't. Especially seen as after that I went and started on my essay... which (very unfortunately) wasn't: How To Manage England :cool:

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Who is actually in the running for the England job?

I checked the latest odds and these are the favourites:

Harry Redknapp

Stuart Pearce

Guus Hiddink

Jose Mourinho

Roy Hodgson

Martin O'Neill

Rafa Benitez

Arsene Wenger

Redknapp is obviously the major favourite.

The second group is Pearce, Hiddink and Mourinho at longer odds.

The third group is Hodgson, O'Neill, Benitez and Wenger at much longer odds.

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Wenger said in today's press conference that he is NOT interested in the England job now.

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As no one else will say this:

I don't care who the next manger is. What will happen is that he will do about the same but as we didn't win the world cup he will get hounded out/sacked.

^This is why I couldn't care about football.

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I agree in general with most of that post HC, but there's a few bits I just can't agree with.

In my eyes, the FA have done us over again. Giving Capello a new contract before the World Cup was ridiculous, he then went and failed in South Africa although in my eyes he did well as I wasn't expecting us to get out of the group stages.

Huh? So he failed by meeting expecations?

It wasn't a new contract, they just removed the clause whereby either party could end the contract after the World Cup. Considering we'd just qualified in spectacular style and Inter were sniffing around it was the right thing to do. Not one of the moron tabloids complained at the time, now it's a convenient stick with which to beat Capello and the FA. Of course, governing by hindsight is a piece of urine (stupid swear filter).

sp_1411_clip05.jpg

However, there was a lot of pressure on him and Germany had an excellent team, a team we should be looking to take at the Euros. When I say team, I mean youngsters with the odd old head there. They had the pace and experience to wipe us aside.

That same Germany team that the "expert pundits" in the studio were saying they wouldn't swap a single member of England's team for. :lol: Even at the time it sounded like the ravings of a madman to anyone with a half-serviceable knowledge of football, let alone the Bundesliga. That kind of lunacy is exactly the problem.

When Sven(?) took Walcott to the 2006 World Cup he was doing the right think, a youngster at that age would have hugely benefited from it and maybe should have started 1 of the group games but where it went wrong was not taking him to the next World Cup. Now what I'm saying is this: you take players that have great potential and are young enough to feature in the next World Cup European Championship whatever. Walcott did little if anything in 2006 but if he'd have gone in 2010 he'd have had the experience, the homesickness etc wouldn't be there and then would be a much better player. Do you see what I'm saying?

They should get the tournament experience as a member of the youth squads, you cannot afford passengers at the senior tournament if you have any aspirations of doing well. Instead all of the decent players pull out. Spain had players who had won the World Cup with the senior side the year before playing at the U21 Euros in 2011. England's squad barely had a cap between them. Utter self-defeating idiocy, a massively important stage of their development as international players is devalued to the extent that the likes of Wilshere pull out because they've been capped a couple of times for the seniors and it's all beneath them now. I notice you mention this later, but I think it needs to be added in to this part of the discussion.

Now if I was the manager of England now, I would take players such as Alex Oxlade Chamberlin, Daniel Sturridge and Danny Welbeck. Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc have had their chance, they've done nothing. These youngsters that are coming through should go to the European Championships, get the tournament experience and then go to the World Cup. Do you really think Lampard and Gerrard will be going to Brazil? I don't. If we take a 23(?) man squad to these European Championships and only 13 or so go to World Cup then the team is yet again not as strong/bonded. If we take a whole bunch of youngsters with old heads that deserve to captain and play for their country (Scott Parker for one example) then the next World Cup when the youngsters are settled Premier League players with 10/20 England caps under their belt and that tournament experience then maybe we will get further than the Quarters? I think we would. Again I hope you all see what I'm saying.

I agree with you on this, but because Oxlade, Sturridge and Welbeck are in fantastic form and deserve to be in the squad, not so they can go along and not get on the pitch.

Now on the Capello matter, I'm glad he's gone. I didn't like his style of play and the fact he's Italian. The next manager has to be English and shouldn't be Harry (come on, he's guility).

I'm staggered at the outright xenophobia here.

Yes okay, we beat Spain but if you look at the stats of the game I think they had 65% maybe 70 of the possession, 20 odd shots at goal and we had about 3. In any competitive game the Spanish players would have murdered us.

They didn't muster a single decent chance apart from that Fabregas one at the end. We shut them down highly effectively, nicked a goal, and held it resolutely. It was a fantastic performance which you can't ignore simply because it was a friendly.

We didn't even comfortably qualify for the Euros

Last time I checked we qualified unbeaten, sounds pretty cushy to me.

Stuart Pearce should be the next England manager in my eyes, give him a contract till September (none of this temporary crap) give him a full time, permenant contract till September.

Why the hell not? Jurgen Klinsmann did a great job with Germany at Euro 2008 with no management experience, so why not Psycho? There's no way in hell we'll win it, but then we wouldn't win it with a proper manager anyway so I think this is a great idea. For Pearce however it'd be moronic. Why risk your status as an England legend? You'll only become a pariah, even if you do well and get us to three quarter finals in a row. No, you'll have Ian Wright telling the world what an idiot you are and his mutually sycophantic co-pundits sniggering in the background as they have a massive circle-jerk over your lynched, lifeless career.

An example of a waste of a cap (or however you want to put it), Kevin Davies, you can argue he deserved the 30 minutes run out but it's not as though he has been seen in the England set up since. I think I've made my point :p

Very true but I wouldn't say Capello made a habit of that sort of thing.

Okay, maybe I rambled a bit but I love a debate where I have a strong opinion on and I thought I'd share my view with you. Just one example of a strong bonded team: (well 2), there was a country (Russia region) that played the best club team players in their league with the tactics formation etc because they were all that nationallity (it might have been Albania). Also the Spanish set up is brilliantly, English clubs are allowed to call back players from U21,20 and 19 tournaments. It resulted in around 70 call backs from clubs in the U20 World Cup. What use is that to us? It's not. In Spain you're not allowed to do that so the first team players have played a lot and I mean a lot of Under 20's etc games, if the same players are playing with the same people all the way through to the first team it's going to mightly benefit them and you can't say it wont because look at Spain: European Champions 2008, World Champions 2010. Okay we don't have them quality players but I believe we could make it to the Semis at least with a strong bonded team, which we haven't had for years.

Bang on.

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As no one else will say this:

I don't care who the next manger is. What will happen is that he will do about the same but as we didn't win the world cup he will get hounded out/sacked.

^This is why I couldn't care about football.

I did say that actually :p

Apart from the not caring about football part.

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Huh? So he failed by meeting expecations?

They weren't really my 'expectations' as such, I was just not getting my hopes up. The general expectation was pretty high, if I remember correctly.

It wasn't a new contract, they just removed the clause whereby either party could end the contract after the World Cup. Considering we'd just qualified in spectacular style and Inter were sniffing around it was the right thing to do. Not one of the moron tabloids complained at the time, now it's a convenient stick with which to beat Capello and the FA. Of course, governing by hindsight is a piece of urine (stupid swear filter).

Okay, fair enough. But still, I wouldn't have changed the contract, giving him the option to quit and us to sack him after should have appealed to them and if they were to do it then they should have done it after the World Cup, I know that kinda defeats the object of the clause anyway.

That same Germany team that the "expert pundits" in the studio were saying they wouldn't swap a single member of England's team for. :lol: Even at the time it sounded like the ravings of a madman to anyone with a half-serviceable knowledge of football, let alone the Bundesliga. That kind of lunacy is exactly the problem.

I honestly think the German team was pretty decent and had the pace of the youngsters and the experience of the old heads. It definitely was a lot better than our team.

Neuer - James

Lahm - Johnson

Boateng - Cole

Friedrich - Upson

Mertesacker - Terry

Podoloski - Gerrard

Muller - Milner

Khderia - Lampard

Schweinsteiger - Barry

Ozil - Defoe

Klose - Rooney

On that day, I would have prefered (from the England team) Cole, Terry, Lampard, Rooney (for England he is shocking, for Man Utd he is good, I personally wouldn't play him for England because he doesn't seem to get the quality like he does for Man Utd).

They should get the tournament experience as a member of the youth squads, you cannot afford passengers at the senior tournament if you have any aspirations of doing well. Instead all of the decent players pull out. Spain had players who had won the World Cup with the senior side the year before playing at the U21 Euros in 2011. England's squad barely had a cap between them. Utter self-defeating idiocy, a massively important stage of their development as international players is devalued to the extent that the likes of Wilshere pull out because they've been capped a couple of times for the seniors and it's all beneath them now. I notice you mention this later, but I think it needs to be added in to this part of the discussion.

I wouldn't take them as passengers, I would have started Walcott for one of the group games in Germany, I would have given him match time. Or bring him on every game for the last 20 minutes? Let him rip the defence apart with his speed. He got nothing (I can't remember if he never played or got 10 minutes).

I agree with you on this, but because Oxlade, Sturridge and Welbeck are in fantastic form and deserve to be in the squad, not so they can go along and not get on the pitch.

I'd play them, I never thought of taking them without playing them. Sorry should have made that clear.

I'm staggered at the outright xenophobia here.

There are many reasons why I wouldn't take Harry, I would just be repeating opinions heard for ages. I think he's guiltily and it was just a blunt way of putting my opinion :D Not that seriously said.

They didn't muster a single decent chance apart from that Fabregas one at the end. We shut them down highly effectively, nicked a goal, and held it resolutely. It was a fantastic performance which you can't ignore simply because it was a friendly.

I just can't see how defending for a whole game and scoring the one chance we got was really 'good' as such. We deserved to win but I'm not sure it was that good of a performance anyway. I wouldn't want to see us try and win things with 1 goal wins, put it that way.

Last time I checked we qualified unbeaten, sounds pretty cushy to me.

We were against small teams (no offence to them) but they still managed to scare us a little and be the better team on the day. If you're not performing but winning (qualifying) you'll get undone soon, fast and embarrassingly i.e. the Germany result.

Why the hell not? Jurgen Klinsmann did a great job with Germany at Euro 2008 with no management experience, so why not Psycho? There's no way in hell we'll win it, but then we wouldn't win it with a proper manager anyway so I think this is a great idea. For Pearce however it'd be moronic. Why risk your status as an England legend? You'll only become a pariah, even if you do well and get us to three quarter finals in a row. No, you'll have Ian Wright telling the world what an idiot you are and his mutually sycophantic co-pundits sniggering in the background as they have a massive circle-jerk over your lynched, lifeless career.

I'm slightly confused here, I think Pearce should get the job and he shouldn't be expected to do much in this upcoming Euros but in the next World Cup I'd let him do the business and judge him afterwards.

Very true but I wouldn't say Capello made a habit of that sort of thing.

Maybe not a habit, but he did it and it annoyed me once or twice, you shouldn't be looking to give people 'playing time' if they aren't going to feature in the tournaments. Apart from a long list of injuries in the striking set up, Davies wont ever get near the Euros and never will have.

Bang on.

Why thanks :D

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They weren't really my 'expectations' as such, I was just not getting my hopes up. The general expectation was pretty high, if I remember correctly.

The general expectations were indeed high, but that doesn't make them the right barometer. Loads of people thought the Earth was flat. We fell one match short of the best we could realistically expect to do, which when you turn up with one key player injured and two hopelessly out of form isn't terrible. Look at Newcastle against Fulham and Brighton for how a good team with a good manager shorn of one centreback, and two forwards in abject form can look awful.

Okay, fair enough. But still, I wouldn't have changed the contract, giving him the option to quit and us to sack him after should have appealed to them and if they were to do it then they should have done it after the World Cup, I know that kinda defeats the object of the clause anyway.

Why would it appeal to them then? He had just led us through a spectacularly good qualifying campaign, he'd done an excellent job. In hindsight they (wrongly for me) wanted to get rid after the tournament, but who the hell saw that coming?

There are many reasons why I wouldn't take Harry, I would just be repeating opinions heard for ages. I think he's guiltily and it was just a blunt way of putting my opinion :D Not that seriously said.

No, xenophobia is referring to not liking Capello because he's Italian. You may be of the opinion that each team should have a manager of the same nationality (I happen to agree), but that's not the rules (so we should pick the best manager regardless of nationality or else put ourselves at a disadvantage), so you cannot use Capello's nationality as a stick to bash him with.

I just can't see how defending for a whole game and scoring the one chance we got was really 'good' as such. We deserved to win but I'm not sure it was that good of a performance anyway. I wouldn't want to see us try and win things with 1 goal wins, put it that way.

Because we won against a team of far superior individual ability. If Fleetwood went to Old Trafford and won 1-0 with their only chance of the game, restricting Man Utd to one decent chance would that not be good? It was a fantastic defensive performance against a far superior side - exactly the sort of performance we'd need to get past that sort of team at the Euros, because we sure as hell aren't outplaying anyone.

We were against small teams (no offence to them) but they still managed to scare us a little and be the better team on the day. If you're not performing but winning (qualifying) you'll get undone soon, fast and embarrassingly i.e. the Germany result.

Slight little-Englander mentality bleeding in there, just because Montenegro's ranking is artificially low for the moment doesn't mean they're not an excellent side. The Swiss have some wonderful players as well, and Wales were putting together a brilliant team under Gary Speed (RIP). Any qualification (let alone unbeaten) is a good qualification. Just ask Steve McClaren.

I'm slightly confused here, I think Pearce should get the job and he shouldn't be expected to do much in this upcoming Euros but in the next World Cup I'd let him do the business and judge him afterwards.

I don't disagree, I probably didn't make it clear. I don't think Stuart Pearce should want the job (I certainly wouldn't in his position), not that people shouldn't want Stuart Pearce to take it.

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The general expectations were indeed high, but that doesn't make them the right barometer. Loads of people thought the Earth was flat. We fell one match short of the best we could realistically expect to do, which when you turn up with one key player injured and two hopelessly out of form isn't terrible. Look at Newcastle against Fulham and Brighton for how a good team with a good manager shorn of one centreback, and two forwards in abject form can look awful.

No it doesn't make it the right barometere, you are correct. I just felt/feel that the football we played under him was quite poor, a bit boring to watch and he didn't really have a plan b. He also chose the wrong players in my eyes and I would have chosen a younger squad as I said.

Why would it appeal to them then? He had just led us through a spectacularly good qualifying campaign, he'd done an excellent job. In hindsight they (wrongly for me) wanted to get rid after the tournament, but who the hell saw that coming?

No one saw it coming, I just thought at the time as I do now that offering someone a new contract (changing the contract) before a major tournament isn't the best idea, especially with it being his first tournament in charge. If he did well or was unlucky then you can look at giving him a new contract at the end, after looking at everything. They may have realized then that he wasn't the man for the job. It's almost similar to the Steve Kean at Blackburn, he was bottom at Christmas so what did they do? Change his contract, he accepted and they might have got away with it but if they were still as bad as they were then there would be uproar.

No, xenophobia is referring to not liking Capello because he's Italian. You may be of the opinion that each team should have a manager of the same nationality (I happen to agree), but that's not the rules (so we should pick the best manager regardless of nationality or else put ourselves at a disadvantage), so you cannot use Capello's nationality as a stick to bash him with.

Each team should have their own nationality as a manager yes. But I wasn't using it to 'bash him with' I was just saying I didn't like the fact he was Italian and was managing England. This is the same as Sheffield United: I don't like the fact Danny Wilson is a Sheffield Wednesday fan etc and is managing us BUT I love the way Danny Wilson has got us playing and the position we are in. IF Capello had got us playing good football and winning games well then yes I would like him and the fact he's Italian would make little if any difference to my judgement. I said it the wrong way and I didn't mean I don't like him because he's Italian, I meant: I didn't like the way he had us playing and the fact he's Italian managing England is annoying. Thats how I should have said it.

Because we won against a team of far superior individual ability. If Fleetwood went to Old Trafford and won 1-0 with their only chance of the game, restricting Man Utd to one decent chance would that not be good? It was a fantastic defensive performance against a far superior side - exactly the sort of performance we'd need to get past that sort of team at the Euros, because we sure as hell aren't outplaying anyone.

I know you've said you can't use friendlies as a reason but I would like to see us try that sort of tactic out against a team like Spain in a tournament (well I wouldn't because we would probably lose) and I don't think England beating Spain (any competition, at Wembley) is anywhere near Fleetwood going to Old Trafford and winning (more than likely in the cup). If you are going to use Man Utd as Spain then I'd say Blackburn for us a better comparison ;)

Slight little-Englander mentality bleeding in there, just because Montenegro's ranking is artificially low for the moment doesn't mean they're not an excellent side. The Swiss have some wonderful players as well, and Wales were putting together a brilliant team under Gary Speed (RIP). Any qualification (let alone unbeaten) is a good qualification. Just ask Steve McClaren.

I do believe that us, Spain, Netherlands, France, Italy, Portugal, Germany should almost walk qualification. Some of them did and have before, I'm not saying Montenegro are a poor side or Wales I'm just saying if we took the approach teams like that did then we should beat them rather than underestimating them and bringing players in such as Kevin Davies or Darren Bent (and not using them on a regular basis).

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I do believe that us, Spain, Netherlands, France, Italy, Portugal, Germany should almost walk qualification. Some of them did and have before, I'm not saying Montenegro are a poor side or Wales I'm just saying if we took the approach teams like that did then we should beat them rather than underestimating them and bringing players in such as Kevin Davies or Darren Bent (and not using them on a regular basis).

Sorry to butt into the dialogue here (:D), but I want to comment on this paragraph.

This kind of mentality among fans and media is why England always "underperform" (sic). Or rather, why England are perceived to underperform. The countries you mention either have a good chance to win the World Cup, or can do it if things go their way. Except England. Short of a Greece-style miracle, England can't win the World Cup. They simply don't have the players for it. That may sound harsh, but it's easier to observe that from outside England than inside it. England is a tier 2 team that should be expected to get to the second round of the World Cup and arguably also the quarter final (with a lucky draw at least). But one can't realistically expect more than a quarter final outing. Spain, Netherlands, France, Italy and Germany, however, should expect a semi final and all have the ability to win every tournament they take part in. Spain are obviously in a great position right now, mind. France isn't quite what they were either tbh.

All the people discussing here seem to agree the new England manager should go for youth and ditch the old geezers. That doesn't mean England will actually copy Germany and play the pants off other teams, but it's a fresh start that I think will do them good. There are some exciting players there, and some would cope well among Spanish or German players too, but overall I still don't think the English players coming through has the technical ability of the ones coming through in Spain and Germany, so we're likely to see basically the same over the next decade as the past. There is a time for everything, however, and I feel it's time for Rio, Lampard and Terry to have played their last cap, and perhaps also Gerrard (he isn't half the player he was). Cole and Parker are the only old guys off the top of my head that should stay. Plus Rooney ofc, but he is only 26 so it's harsh to call him old.

This way a new crop of players will start playing with each other now, as a unit. Keep playing them together for 2 years straight and we'll see what they can do in Brazil. One of the advantages of particularly Spain is that it's virtually half of Barca and half of Real playing in the national side, so they all know each other well and how they like to play. Easier to quickly get on the same wavelength in tournaments then. Some of the same in Germany, but there it's due to extreme professionalism and focus on system and tactics all up through the youth teams. Something England also desperately needs.

I guess the summary of what I'm saying is that England need to start learning from the best in Europe and the world, and stop having this holier-than-thou attitude. The bottom line is that England isn't good enough to win tournaments. If they want that to change, they need to look at the countries who are good enough and learn lessons from them.

A step in the right direction has been made with the ditching of the 90 minute rule and increasing the coaching hours for kids and youths, but a lot more needs to be done. The FA need to grow a pair and start changing what hasn't worked for well over a decade. Cooperate better with clubs, pump out a lot of top quality coaches with all the right badges and courses. And perhaps most important of all, FA/clubs need to get kids working technique around the clock up to about 14-16 years, on small pitches. This is what Man Utd have been doing the last 10 or so years under Warren Joyce's guidance, and it's starting to give results now. I don't know about other clubs, but that is what needs to happen. Stop worrying about physique, physique, physique. That will come with time. If you want to succeed in the future, make bloody well sure the players are incredibly good technically with a mature football brain between their shoulders. That is the main reason, in my opinion, why Spain and Germany are currently spanking England (bar the much-talked about friendly).

This got a little (a lot) longer than intended, but hopefully there is sense in what I wrote, and what I had in mind got across okay.

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Part of the problem for England, IMO, is how blinkered much of the media is there. There's no willingness to admit there's quality football being played elsewhere (see the "EASY" headline, the "best league in the world" nonsense, etc.)

Someone can fill in the names for me, but weren't some of the BBC or ITV presenters actually laughing at one of their studio pundits for actually bothering to do research on the Slovenian and Algerian players?

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No it doesn't make it the right barometere, you are correct. I just felt/feel that the football we played under him was quite poor, a bit boring to watch and he didn't really have a plan b. He also chose the wrong players in my eyes and I would have chosen a younger squad as I said.

The players barely grasped his Plan A, so I'm not surprised he didn't manage to work out a Plan B before the World Cup. He was in the process of creating a Plan B (i.e. without Rooney) before he walked. We played excellent football in World Cup qualifying, and sporadically in the Euro qualifying. However it's a results business, if he'd gone for a better style of play but we'd failed to qualify for either tournament it would have cost the FA significantly more than the entire salary they've paid him over the four years. I wouldn't be surprised if they said "get us to the tournament, we don't care how". In fact I'd put money on it.

No one saw it coming, I just thought at the time as I do now that offering someone a new contract (changing the contract) before a major tournament isn't the best idea, especially with it being his first tournament in charge. If he did well or was unlucky then you can look at giving him a new contract at the end, after looking at everything. They may have realized then that he wasn't the man for the job. It's almost similar to the Steve Kean at Blackburn, he was bottom at Christmas so what did they do? Change his contract, he accepted and they might have got away with it but if they were still as bad as they were then there would be uproar.

They were operating under the assumption that since we'd played good football and qualified well that we would play well at the World Cup. A good World Cup would make the clubs sniffing around him more likely to swoop, and the FA would have looked like idiots as the best coach we've had since Robson walked away for nothing. In hindsight the World Cup went slightly wrong (not terribly as the media would have you believe), so perhaps they wouldn't have minded if he'd headed off to Inter. With the information available at the time, though, I don't believe anyone would consider it a bad decision.

Each team should have their own nationality as a manager yes. But I wasn't using it to 'bash him with' I was just saying I didn't like the fact he was Italian and was managing England. This is the same as Sheffield United: I don't like the fact Danny Wilson is a Sheffield Wednesday fan etc and is managing us BUT I love the way Danny Wilson has got us playing and the position we are in. IF Capello had got us playing good football and winning games well then yes I would like him and the fact he's Italian would make little if any difference to my judgement. I said it the wrong way and I didn't mean I don't like him because he's Italian, I meant: I didn't like the way he had us playing and the fact he's Italian managing England is annoying. Thats how I should have said it.

Fair enough, it just came off a bit little-Englander-dodgy-foreigners. However, as I said, with the rules as they are we have to go for the best manager available. Teams like Italy, Spain and Germany have the luxury of top-class coaches of their own nationality, we don't. Redknapp is the closest thing we have and he's won one trophy in 30 years. I absolutely agree the rules should be changed, because if the players have to be English why shouldn't the manager? But you work within the laws you're given.

I know you've said you can't use friendlies as a reason but I would like to see us try that sort of tactic out against a team like Spain in a tournament (well I wouldn't because we would probably lose) and I don't think England beating Spain (any competition, at Wembley) is anywhere near Fleetwood going to Old Trafford and winning (more than likely in the cup). If you are going to use Man Utd as Spain then I'd say Blackburn for us a better comparison ;)

Well we never will know unfortunately. I personally think that's the only way we'd get a result against a Spain or Germany in a tournament. What would you propose, out of interest?

I do believe that us, Spain, Netherlands, France, Italy, Portugal, Germany should almost walk qualification. Some of them did and have before, I'm not saying Montenegro are a poor side or Wales I'm just saying if we took the approach teams like that did then we should beat them rather than underestimating them and bringing players in such as Kevin Davies or Darren Bent (and not using them on a regular basis).

Pangaea absolutely nailed the response to this so I won't go into too much depth, suffice to say that Holland failed to qualify for World Cup 2002, France have limped through the last few qualifying campaigns, and Portugal were absolutely on the edge for Euro 2012. Two qualifying campaigns under Capello, one unbeaten and the other with only a loss when it didn't matter. I'd love to see a comparison between those nations for performance in the last two qualifying tournaments because I bet you we'd be in the top 3.

Someone can fill in the names for me, but weren't some of the BBC or ITV presenters actually laughing at one of their studio pundits for actually bothering to do research on the Slovenian and Algerian players?

Yeah I remember that, I think it was Mark Lawrenson (who is the absolute epitome of the "show up without having done any research and spout lazy cliches whilst gazing lovingly into Hansen's eyes" school of punditry the BBC seem to think our license fee should be wasted on) to Lee Dixon (of course one of the better pundits). Yet another example of the rampant anti-intellectualism in Britain and British football in particular I was talking about earlier.

I must just say this is an excellent discussion guys, I couldn't have this on any other forum I visit :thup:

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I must just say this is an excellent discussion guys, I couldn't have this on any other forum I visit :thup:

Void post here, but I just have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this. Have followed and participated a little in the discussions in the Football Forum, but it's a pointless exercise. People are more interested in ranting over his wage, the loss to Germany, playing poorly, underperforming, etc. Basically the mentality I talked about in the post above, and that Jason more succinctly sums up.

Thank you guys :thup:

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Fair point Pangaea and I agree with almost everything you say. However, I'm not saying I expected us to walk qualification and do well in the major tournaments I'm saying if we did what almost every country did then we'd be much better. As you rightly pointed out about the Spanish side basically being Barcelona and Real Madrid we'll never have anything like that because how many English players play abroad? Almost none. How many of them have been in the England set up? None. The only exception was David Beckham. So that leaves us with the Premier League to get the English players, but wait, the clubs have been going round Europe and buying the best Spanish/Italian/Brazilian etc players. Around half of the players that will play in todays Premier League games will be English. Around 90% of the players that play in this weekends La Liga games will be Spanish. This is probably the main reason we aren't getting the quality through. The FA introduced the Home Grown players rule, it has done nothing because when they introduced it, everyone was abiding to it anyway so no one had to change anything. They should increase the amount of home grown players in the starting 11 and subs by 1 every year till a certain number, that way there would be more emphasis on getting good English players into the squad. Again, I'm not saying we should be one of the best teams in the World but we can be, if only the FA took note of what to do (as you stated).

The players barely grasped his Plan A, so I'm not surprised he didn't manage to work out a Plan B before the World Cup. He was in the process of creating a Plan B (i.e. without Rooney) before he walked. We played excellent football in World Cup qualifying, and sporadically in the Euro qualifying. However it's a results business, if he'd gone for a better style of play but we'd failed to qualify for either tournament it would have cost the FA significantly more than the entire salary they've paid him over the four years. I wouldn't be surprised if they said "get us to the tournament, we don't care how". In fact I'd put money on it.

That's true but it also shows what I've just said to Pangaea about the FA, I think we all seem to agree that the FA could do a better job and I agree with what you say about them saying: Get us to the tournament. But we are more than a qualifying team, we can go far and like Holland could have a great year (with a bit of luck) and reach the final of the Euros/World Cup. Do you not think the players couldn't grasp Plan A because he could never speak proper English? It must be a downfall, having to have a translator giving the orders to the team and he never really learned the English language, which he should because he had plenty of spare time.

They were operating under the assumption that since we'd played good football and qualified well that we would play well at the World Cup. A good World Cup would make the clubs sniffing around him more likely to swoop, and the FA would have looked like idiots as the best coach we've had since Robson walked away for nothing. In hindsight the World Cup went slightly wrong (not terribly as the media would have you believe), so perhaps they wouldn't have minded if he'd headed off to Inter. With the information available at the time, though, I don't believe anyone would consider it a bad decision.

I can see where you're coming from but I'm just not sure it was the best decision to go with, I can't remember my re-action at the time when he got the revised deal so I can't really say whether I've changed my mind or not but it hasn't turned out to be the best decision although I don't think the FA could have seen what was going to come.

Fair enough, it just came off a bit little-Englander-dodgy-foreigners. However, as I said, with the rules as they are we have to go for the best manager available. Teams like Italy, Spain and Germany have the luxury of top-class coaches of their own nationality, we don't. Redknapp is the closest thing we have and he's won one trophy in 30 years. I absolutely agree the rules should be changed, because if the players have to be English why shouldn't the manager? But you work within the laws you're given.

I don't think winning things is the best way to see who is a good manager or not. If Harry Redknapp gets the Manchester United job and is given the same time and money Fergie has got then I'm sure he could build a great squad and go and win things, in my eyes Redknapp is one of the best club managers around but a lot of his success has come from his brilliant dealings in the transfer market which unfortunately you don't have in the international set up. I'm honestly not sure who would be the best England manager but I don't think it would be Redknapp because of he is a club manager, nothing more. That being said, I'll hold all judgement till the end of the World Cup in Brazil on the next England manager.

Well we never will know unfortunately. I personally think that's the only way we'd get a result against a Spain or Germany in a tournament. What would you propose, out of interest?

If you are on about how would I try and beat Spain then I'd have players like Cahill at CB, Johnson and Cole at the full backs, Parker in CM with Wilshere (when fit obviously) with Oxlade Chamberlin and Young on the wing with Sturridge and Welbeck upfront. (If Wenger had used Walcott as a ST rather than a winger then I reckon he'd have got more hat-tricks than just the one against Croatia as I firmly believe Walcott could be a world class striker but just not a good winger, he has 13% cross completion and one of the reasons for that in my eyes is he's to fast for everyone else, he gets to the crossing position but no one is there to get on the end and he has shown he can score great goals, but it's a lot harder from RM/RW than ST although that's another debate).

I must just say this is an excellent discussion guys, I couldn't have this on any other forum I visit :thup:

Too right.

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Part of the problem for England, IMO, is how blinkered much of the media is there. There's no willingness to admit there's quality football being played elsewhere (see the "EASY" headline, the "best league in the world" nonsense, etc.)

To be fair, you are only describing a certain section of the media here. You are describing typical headlines from trashy tabloid newspapers such as The Sun!

We do have quality sports writing in this country, you know! I think you're being a little unfair about the media here. We have some of the best football writers in the world (and also some of the worst too no doubt!) and they definitely shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush as the sensationalised tabloid rags!

And even though I agree that most of our BBC and ITV pundits are terrible, even they - as ignorant as they can be - are willing to admit to the quality of football in other countries. The way they fawn over Spain is pretty pathetic to be honest!

Teams like Italy, Spain and Germany have the luxury of top-class coaches of their own nationality, we don't. Redknapp is the closest thing we have and he's won one trophy in 30 years. I absolutely agree the rules should be changed, because if the players have to be English why shouldn't the manager?

Completely agree. We should have an English manager. I'm not a xenophobe - far from it - but I do feel strongly that international sides should have a coach of that same nationality in charge of their team if possible. Perhaps for smaller nations without a major football culture, a foreign coach is a must in order to bring experience and to provide a learning experience for future coaches. But I'd suggest that even then it should be a short-term solution. With a football culture like we have in our country, there is no excuse for us not to work towards having a home grown manager to represent our country. As you say SnakeXe, it's the English national team with English players so surely it should be an English manager too!

And the key question is: why don't we have top class coaches of our own? That's one major problem that needs to be addressed. There was some statistic that came out after the World Cup in 2010 and it suggested that we have a mere fraction of the number of qualified coaches when compared to some of the other major footballing countries. This needs to change. We need to bring through more coaches and managers for the future and they need to be educated, qualified and given their chance to manage in English club football.

Yeah I remember that, I think it was Mark Lawrenson (who is the absolute epitome of the "show up without having done any research and spout lazy cliches whilst gazing lovingly into Hansen's eyes" school of punditry the BBC seem to think our license fee should be wasted on) to Lee Dixon (of course one of the better pundits). Yet another example of the rampant anti-intellectualism in Britain and British football in particular I was talking about earlier.

The BBC are pretty awful and like the rest of you I feel pretty ripped off to think my license fee is being spent on people like Alan Shearer and Mark Lawrenson giving me their 'insight'. ITV is even worse and I actually refuse to watch football on that channel these days as it is so terrible. At least we do have the occasional decent pundit on BBC and, as you point out, Lee Dixon seems to be one of the better ones.

But I really don't think the media is the main issue here. I mean, are you honestly telling me that other major footballing countries don't have the same pressure from their media when they go into major tournaments? Take Italy, for example, they have daily newspapers dedicated to football meticulously detailing every single aspect that you can possibly imagine to fill out their columns! I can't honestly believe that our media is the fundamental problem here. Yes, we have attitudes that need to be changed across football and not just in the media, but let's get down to the main issues here.

Until we sort out the fundamentals of the national game, we'll always be stuck behind the major footballing powers. I'm talking about issues such as youth football, coaching qualifications, the pathway for coaches and managers to get experience in club football, the FA's National Football Centre and so on and so forth. Then there is the issue of the Premier League (or as Brian Glanville has it, 'the greed is good league'). Do clubs need a proper incentive to bring through young home grown players? Would a proper cap on foreign players help the prospects of the national team? The Premier League has its own agenda and it seems very little that it does helps the national game.

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Taylor was a lot better manager than a lot of people credited him for. If you listen to his analysis during Five Live commentaries you can tell he has deep knowledge of the game.

Redknapp or Mourinho would be my choice given that Brian Clough can't do it.

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