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FM Careers Forum Discussion

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I love Opeth, but some of their fans are absolute mouth-breathers. Whenever you go to see them there's always the "hilarious" people who try to start "ironic" mosh-pits during the quieter/slower parts. Because noone has ever done that before. Although I saw a guy get a smack in the mouth for that last time I saw them so there's hope yet!

The best thing about their music is the dynamic range, which is just unbelievable, nothing outside of orchestral pieces even gets close. The fact that they do both ends of the spectrum just as brilliantly is an added bonus of course! Wonderfully talented musicians and songwriters.

Have you tried ISIS? Pelican? Red Sparrowes? Old Man Gloom? Jesu?

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I've heard of ISIS but not listened to them, and the others I've not even heard of, so no!

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I've not heard of him, I shall check him out! Any recommendation on where to start?

Symphony no.1 or Symphony no. 5 are maybe the more accessible when starting out with Mahler.

The music is epic, beautiful, tragic and sometimes funny too.

Mahler famously said that the symphony should be like the world and that it must embrace everything. His symphonies are extraordinary, epic masterpieces and they do live up to that ideal.

I don't think that there is any music that impacts upon me in such a way as Mahler's music does. It can be breathtakingly beautiful and can wrench at my heart one minute. It can be tragic and even visceral. It can even make me smile with parody and pastiche. It's extraordinary music. The music also has a great narrative to it. Every symphony has a story to tell.

I could recommend some specific recordings if you are interested? There are two excellent versions of the first and fifth symphony that I would recommend. They should be quite inexpensive as well.

In terms of classical music, I also enjoy Beethoven, some Bach, some Mozart, Sibelius and Stravinsky. There are plenty of others that I enjoy but these are perhaps the favourites really. I like the romantic/modernist period best and the symphony would be my favourite genre.

There seem to be just as many shambolically terrible as excellent indie bands, it's weird. Probably a product of the fact that there's not much room for innovation in the genre, so both the unimaginative and the innovative stick out like sore thumbs. That's why I listen to a lot of prog and classical music, there's loads of fantastic prog bands/musicians and classical composers doing really interesting stuff both now and in the past. In particular prog (including the djent sub-genre) is making a massive comeback with bands like Mastodon, Animals as Leaders, Tesseract, Periphery, Opeth, Meshuggah and Fall of Troy (until they split up) doing some absolutely mindblowing stuff.

There is a lot of rubbish indie these days. I feel like I grew out of it really. I used to have a huge CD library but sold many of my CDs a few years back.

I hate the way that music operates on what is fashionable rather than what is good, indie music particularly. So many of the friends I used to have would basically listen to whatever the NME said was amazing at that particular time. So much of it was mediocre music.

Anyway, some of the pop music that I put one side to keep would include (not in any specific order): The Smiths, Morrissey, Kate Bush, The Beatles, Beck, The Black Keys, Gomez, Jimi Hendrix, Maximo Park, Nick Drake, Radiohead, The Stone Roses, Supergrass and Tom Waits. Those are some favourites that I can think of right now.

I have no idea about music these days. I stopped following new music around 2007 or 2008. I just grew very disinterested with the state of modern pop music and listened primarily to classical music plus some old favourites (mainly Morrissey!) now and then.

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I could recommend some specific recordings if you are interested? There are two excellent versions of the first and fifth symphony that I would recommend. They should be quite inexpensive as well.

Please do, I'm intrigued and excited now! :D

There is a lot of rubbish indie these days. I feel like I grew out of it really. I used to have a huge CD library but sold many of my CDs a few years back.

I hate the way that music operates on what is fashionable rather than what is good, indie music particularly. So many of the friends I used to have would basically listen to whatever the NME said was amazing at that particular time. So much of it was mediocre music.

Very very true. Music journalists tend to decide what music is commercially successful rather than the actual quality of the music. That said there's an absolutely incredible skill in writing a catchy song that will be commercially successful, but for the most part it's luck and friends in high places. I mean that's the only way I can explain Mark Ronson.

Anyway, some of the pop music that I put one side to keep would include (not in any specific order): The Smiths, Morrissey, Kate Bush, The Beatles, Beck, The Black Keys, Gomez, Jimi Hendrix, Maximo Park, Nick Drake, Radiohead, The Stone Roses, Supergrass and Tom Waits. Those are some favourites that I can think of right now.

All excellent :thup: I absolutely adore Tom Waits and Jimi Hendrix. Two very rare musicians who transcend time and genre. I'm pretty accepting of different opinions on music, but if you don't like those two you just don't like music.

I have no idea about music these days. I stopped following new music around 2007 or 2008. I just grew very disinterested with the state of modern pop music and listened primarily to classical music plus some old favourites (mainly Morrissey!) now and then.

I completely switched off to new music for about 4 years from 2006. I was utterly convinced in my omniscient late-teenage mind that all the good music that was ever going to be written had already been written. Even the bands I liked were churning out rubbish, and with a couple of exceptions (Alter Bridge were absolutely tearing it up at that time and The Raconteurs blew me away the first time I heard them) I didn't buy a single album during that period.

Then last year my friend sent me a few recommendations, amongst which was Mastodon's Crack the Skye, Fall of Troy's Phantom on the Horizon, and Periphery and Animals as Leaders' eponymous albums and I was just spellbound. Totally changed my musical outlook - there's new and interesting music coming out absolutely all the time if you don't restrict yourself based on genre. There's no good/bad types or genres of music, just good and bad music.

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This is my favourite recording of Mahler's fifth and the first Mahler that I bought and listened to: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-Great-Recordings-Century/dp/B00002439L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328630103&sr=8-1 - it's a good price too at only £5 to £6 new.

This was my favourite for the first symphony - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-1-Gustav/dp/B000001GAC/ref=sr_1_15?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328630279&sr=1-15 - a bit more expensive but available to buy used for £8.

But this would be pretty awesome as an alternative - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-LSO-Gergiev/dp/B0017TZ92W/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328630359&sr=1-2 - I saw some of Valery Gergiev and the LSO's Mahler cycle at the Barbican in London and it was superb. £6.99 is a good price for such an amazing piece of music.

I'd recommend both symphonies as starting points. Maybe the first symphony as the more accessible one. The fifth is perhaps more complex. Perhaps the first would give the best taster to begin with but they are both amazing. In fact, all of the symphonies are fantastic anyway so you can't really go wrong.

If you are really serious about getting to grips with Mahler's music then I recommend this book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphonies-Owners-Unlocking-Masters/dp/1574670999/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328630698&sr=8-1 - which I read alongside the symphonies the first time that I listened to them. You could probably pick up a good boxset of the Mahler symphonies to for £20-£40 depending on the conductor etc. Initially, I borrowed a ton of different recordings from my local library to see which I liked best. I listened to maybe two or three of each symphony and noted my favourites. Your local library is a great place to try out new classical music. I used to borrow a ton of CDs from there to find out what I liked best.

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This is my favourite recording of Mahler's fifth and the first Mahler that I bought and listened to: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-Great-Recordings-Century/dp/B00002439L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328630103&sr=8-1 - it's a good price too at only £5 to £6 new.

This was my favourite for the first symphony - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-1-Gustav/dp/B000001GAC/ref=sr_1_15?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328630279&sr=1-15 - a bit more expensive but available to buy used for £8.

But this would be pretty awesome as an alternative - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-LSO-Gergiev/dp/B0017TZ92W/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328630359&sr=1-2 - I saw some of Valery Gergiev and the LSO's Mahler cycle at the Barbican in London and it was superb. £6.99 is a good price for such an amazing piece of music.

I'd recommend both symphonies as starting points. Maybe the first symphony as the more accessible one. The fifth is perhaps more complex. Perhaps the first would give the best taster to begin with but they are both amazing. In fact, all of the symphonies are fantastic anyway so you can't really go wrong.

If you are really serious about getting to grips with Mahler's music then I recommend this book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphonies-Owners-Unlocking-Masters/dp/1574670999/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328630698&sr=8-1 - which I read alongside the symphonies the first time that I listened to them. You could probably pick up a good boxset of the Mahler symphonies to for £20-£40 depending on the conductor etc. Initially, I borrowed a ton of different recordings from my local library to see which I liked best. I listened to maybe two or three of each symphony and noted my favourites. Your local library is a great place to try out new classical music. I used to borrow a ton of CDs from there to find out what I liked best.

Items Ordered     Price
1 of: Mahler: Symphony No.5 (Great Recordings of the Century) [Audio CD]
By: Sir John Barbirolli, et al
Condition: New
Sold by: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
   £5.81
- 1 item(s) Gift options: None Change gift options

1 of: Mahler - Symphony No. 1 (LSO/ Gergiev) [Audio CD]
By: London Symphony Orchestra, et al
Condition: New
Sold by: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
   £6.99
- 1 item(s) Gift options: None Change gift options 

Sorted, thanks :thup:

I've left the book for the moment as it's a bit expensive, I'll keep it on my wish-list though in case I end up wanting it :D

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Not liking the Heskey hate, he's the 16th highest Premier League scorer of all time and was fantastic for England in the World Cup 2010 qualifying campaign. I'd love to be that rubbish. Having said that, McLeish needs to get it through his head that he's NOT a left-winger! Absolute farce when he came on for Insomnia at the weekend. Not that I particularly care of course as it benefitted us :D

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Also whilst I'm here, if anyone is at all interested I'm writing a blog about my attempts to learn music production by recording a guitar, bass and vocals cover of the full Crack the Skye album. Basically I'm hoping the carrot of the shiny new guitar and stick of keeping up the blog will force me to actually get it done, so I'd appreciate some followers to make the sticky blog even stickier :p

If nothing else you'll be able to laugh at my initial attempts at the vocals :D

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Items Ordered     Price
1 of: Mahler: Symphony No.5 (Great Recordings of the Century) [Audio CD]
By: Sir John Barbirolli, et al
Condition: New
Sold by: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
   £5.81
- 1 item(s) Gift options: None Change gift options

1 of: Mahler - Symphony No. 1 (LSO/ Gergiev) [Audio CD]
By: London Symphony Orchestra, et al
Condition: New
Sold by: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
   £6.99
- 1 item(s) Gift options: None Change gift options 

Sorted, thanks :thup:

I've left the book for the moment as it's a bit expensive, I'll keep it on my wish-list though in case I end up wanting it :D

Awesome stuff! :cool:

I hope you enjoy. In fact, I'm sure you will. Wonderful music. You'll be a Mahlerian soon enough!

Be sure to let me know what you think. :thup:

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Steam has announced 33% off Skyrim as the mid-week madness sale today. Just for anyone who is interested.

In addition, they have the Elder Scrolls collection for 50% off. Morrowind GOTY down to £6.49, Oblivion GOTY down to £7.49 and Oblivion GOTY Deluxe down to £9.99.

Tempted to get Morrowind GOTY and Oblivion GOTY Deluxe as I've enjoyed Skyrim so much. Worth getting whilst they are on such a good deal?

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I got Morrowind for around that price a while a go but not played it yet. Oblivion is brilliant and well worth £7.49.

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I put Morrowind GOTY and Oblivion GOTY Deluxe (the £9.99 one) in my cart. Not sure whether to press buy yet. :D

I recently bought Skyrim so I think Mrs Crouchaldinho may well kill me for purchasing more games!

But I'm enjoying Skyrim so much that I would really like to try the old TES games.

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Although Skyrim is a better game in many ways I enjoyed my play through Oblivion a bit more, probably because it was all new to me at the time.

I just buy the missus something or let her get something in return. I got Morrowind ready to play and she got Downton Abbey to watch whilst I play, easy.

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Ergh last.fm not a fan at all.

Well heres a SS of my music folder:

music.png

Over 80% has been listened to at least once, most 5x or over.

Oh, yes I am that OCD that my music folder is arranged by artist then album :)

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Only 17gb? ive got double that! and ive listened to all of mine

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I'm proud to say I've only heard about a handful of those artists! :D

Don't have a great deal of music on my laptop, much more on the desktop (that may be dead now), but have listened to all I have here a whole lot of times. It's "only" 21 GB though. On the desktop I have a crapton of bootlegs; concert recordings with various bands, particularly AC/DC as that is my favourite band. Most of the recordings are of poor standard, but I used to collect and trade some years back so it grew quickly, and some of them are really good too. Soundboard recordings are :cool:

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Btw all of those are album recordings, none of it is live :)

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Flamers, your music collection makes me weep :(

I've got 40gb on this laptop, 60gb on my other laptop and 120gb on a portable drive at my parents.

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4000 songs :p it's not bad!

It's 4000 of what that makes me weep :(

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Metal, Trance, Pop Punk, Punk, Rock, TranceCore. You know, the norm :D

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Not normally one to criticise peoples music preferences but I have to agree with Deisler on this one. Some shockers in there Flamers. Looking at Chad Kroeger, Delta Goodrem and Scooter in particular :eek:

You also appear to be lacking some

,
,
and
in your "music" library. You need to sort that out ;)

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Flamers wouldn't like At The Drive In. I've been trying to enlighten him for a while now, it's a thankless task.

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Perhaps Flamers might like The Mars Volta???

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Perhaps Flamers might like The Mars Volta???

Well he didn't much like Fall of Troy and I'd say they're probably more accessible than the Mars Volta.

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I can see how some music is good but if I don't listen to it theres not much point in me owning it.

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I get what you mean, like something you intellectually know is good but it just doesn't push your buttons. What I don't understand is how Fall of Troy/Mars Volta/At The Drive In don't push your buttons, but there we go :p

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Especially me. I think the Beatles, The Stone Roses and The Smiths are utterly dull, bar maybe two songs each.

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Can't believe Capello's gone. Hope the incredibly-poorly-concealed xenophobes in the tabloid press are happy. Probably a good decision for him though, he can't win at Euro 2012 unless England get to the last 4 which won't happen. He's also right about Terry, you can't punish someone for a crime they've not been found guilty of. I think Terry is a nasty piece of work and even on playing ability alone I wouldn't have him in the England side, so certainly don't want to do him any favours, but this is about one of the fundamental tenets of our criminal justice system.

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Can't say I'm too surprised. It's just typical of the FA to make a complete balls up of the whole JT scenario, which now leaves the national team completely in the lurch four months before a major tournament. This is just another in a long list of cases where the suits at the top of the national game self destruct at the worst possible moment.

I'm not going to start singing Capello's praises, simply because I don't think his performance as England manager justified his demands and inflated salary. Personally, I think he should have gone after the World Cup, but as the FA, in their superior wisdom, decided to extend his contract weeks before the competition, it would have cost them a fortune to sack him then. That being said, I think he was put into an impossible situation here. The FA went above his head, and completely undermined his position as head coach. Whether what he said to the press was right or wrong, is debatable, but I do feel that he was left with very little option but to walk.

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Can't believe Capello's gone. Hope the incredibly-poorly-concealed xenophobes in the tabloid press are happy. Probably a good decision for him though, he can't win at Euro 2012 unless England get to the last 4 which won't happen. He's also right about Terry, you can't punish someone for a crime they've not been found guilty of. I think Terry is a nasty piece of work and even on playing ability alone I wouldn't have him in the England side, so certainly don't want to do him any favours, but this is about one of the fundamental tenets of our criminal justice system.

Definitely agree, he wasn't a massive success but deserved better than what he got from the tabloids, and while I'm hesitant to agree completely about Terry, given that 'England Captain' for me is one of the rare positons where I think image does matter, guilty or not, whereas otherwise I'm very much in favour of judging someone on professional matters alone, not personal, and I fully understand that view. Very glad I quickly decided against being a sports journalist given what most of the sports hacks at major papers are like, far too cut-throat and dishonest for me. Definitely think England job brings more trouble to be worth it.

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Especially me. I think the Beatles, The Stone Roses and The Smiths are utterly dull, bar maybe two songs each.

Seriously? :eek:

Which songs out of interest? :D

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I'm not going to start singing Capello's praises, simply because I don't think his performance as England manager justified his demands and inflated salary.

He's got the best record of any England manager ever.

We beat the World Champions in his final match in charge, completely shutting their attack down.

We effortlessly qualified for both major tournaments he was contracted for, having blown several chances to qualify for Euro 2008 under McClaren, a thoroughly decent manager.

Capello is a spectacularly good manager, his career record means he should be beyond reproach. England have an average pool of players, and are a team whose talisman is its greatest flaw.

The media crucified him because they themselves crippled the players with expectation at the World Cup. Their complete lack of self-awareness and reactionary, downright destructive journalism makes me physically sick.

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First 2 have 1 song each and scooter is for exercise :)

Guess that makes sense, if you are trying to run away from the music.

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He's got the best record of any England manager ever.

We beat the World Champions in his final match in charge, completely shutting their attack down.

We effortlessly qualified for both major tournaments he was contracted for, having blown several chances to qualify for Euro 2008 under McClaren, a thoroughly decent manager.

Capello is a spectacularly good manager, his career record means he should be beyond reproach. England have an average pool of players, and are a team whose talisman is its greatest flaw.

The media crucified him because they themselves crippled the players with expectation at the World Cup. Their complete lack of self-awareness and reactionary, downright destructive journalism makes me physically sick.

Agree with a lot of that. Don't think Capello has the best record of all, but he's up there in the best bracket (or was when I checked a year or so ago), but he's a great manager that has won practically everything. I agree stripping Terry of the armband is a good idea, but it should have been Capello's call as it's a footballing decision first and foremost. I think that's why Capello has walked, because the FA stepped on his toes and it is therefore a principal matter to him. Don't think it is because the FA may have punished an innocent man (hahaha) before his trial.

Capello has done very well with the players available to him. But it's never enough. He could have taken England to the semi final or even final of the World Cup and there is a good chance the media would still crucify him. The thing is, England simply don't have a team capable of winning tournaments. With a few exceptions the players are quite average now (for that level), with some on their last legs. You may say Hart is a top-top class player now, and Rooney is a given, but apart from that England don't have many players that would walk into the team of (other) top nations.

But the English (media) still live with this delusion that England is a world class footballing nation and for decade after decade they somehow underperform at every tournament.

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Capello had a 66% win rate, better than any other England manager.

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Agree with a lot of that. Don't think Capello has the best record of all, but he's up there in the best bracket (or was when I checked a year or so ago), but he's a great manager that has won practically everything. I agree stripping Terry of the armband is a good idea, but it should have been Capello's call as it's a footballing decision first and foremost. I think that's why Capello has walked, because the FA stepped on his toes and it is therefore a principal matter to him. Don't think it is because the FA may have punished an innocent man (hahaha) before his trial.

Thought I read something that Capello quit AC Milan because of Berlusconi's influence in buying players, etc.

Capello has done very well with the players available to him. But it's never enough. He could have taken England to the semi final or even final of the World Cup and there is a good chance the media would still crucify him. The thing is, England simply don't have a team capable of winning tournaments. With a few exceptions the players are quite average now (for that level), with some on their last legs. You may say Hart is a top-top class player now, and Rooney is a given, but apart from that England don't have many players that would walk into the team of (other) top nations.

But the English (media) still live with this delusion that England is a world class footballing nation and for decade after decade they somehow underperform at every tournament.

This, exactly.

I think England are similar now to a Portugal or a Holland, where they're no better than a dark horse that COULD win a championship IF certain things break their way.

Honestly, the England job is a no-win situation now. It's basically the Kobiyashi Maru of international jobs. There's no good reason for a foreign manager to take it because of all the barracking you get from the redtops (and if Barry Fry is any indication, you're viewed with suspicion even within the coaching fraternity. Not exactly a great platform to look at new players or try to change a style of play). And even 'arry sounded less than enthusiastic about the job a few months ago (basically saying you can't turn it down if you're an English manager, even though he agreed with the "poisoned chalice" depiction of the job)

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He's got the best record of any England manager ever.

We beat the World Champions in his final match in charge, completely shutting their attack down.

We effortlessly qualified for both major tournaments he was contracted for, having blown several chances to qualify for Euro 2008 under McClaren, a thoroughly decent manager.

Capello is a spectacularly good manager, his career record means he should be beyond reproach. England have an average pool of players, and are a team whose talisman is its greatest flaw.

The media crucified him because they themselves crippled the players with expectation at the World Cup. Their complete lack of self-awareness and reactionary, downright destructive journalism makes me physically sick.

He may have the best win ratio ever, but I don't think that equates to the best record ever. Statistics can be used to a point, but generally, do not tell the whole story.

Granted, we qualified easily for the World Cup, but I can't agree that we effortlessly qualified for the Euros, especially considering the performances against Montenegro, a relative minnow in the footballing world. Surely, a international manager should be judged by their performance in major tournaments, and reaching the second round of the World Cup is nothing to get too excited about, especially when considering Ericsson managed to get us to the quarter-finals twice. Same with the Spain match; if that had been a competitive match at major tournament then, quite rightly, everyone would be singing his praises, but it wasn't. It was a home friendly, played in the middle of November.

Perhaps Capello would have fared better at Euro 2012, but unfortunately, we will never know. Personally, I don't think we would. Undoubtedly, we no longer have a pool of 'world class' players, with maybe the exceptions of Rooney, Hart, Wilshere, but it is possible to do respectably well at these tournaments with a fairly average team; take Greece, Paraguay and Turkey as recent examples.

No-one can doubt the record that Capello has as a club manager, winning several major trophies over the course of his career, and I totally agree that there has been a witch-hunt in the Press ever since he took the job, but fundamentally, I don't think his employment as England manager reflected good value for money. That all being said, I don't think the current mess is his fault at all, and do kind of admire him for sticking to his principles and telling the FA where to stick it.

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Montenegro are partly relative minnows because they're new enough to be working their way up to their true status, while not one of the strongest, they're strong enough not to be the comfortable win that the press and public think that a lot of these 'good to middling' sides still are, as if it was 50 years ago. Best record definitely, and in a more competitive international world (yes there's new nations and minnows but a lot of nations have up to a few strong and well known players that they didn't have years ago, Slovakia, and Turkey (who for ages were just the sort of team we were beating by big scores) from the late 90's to name a couple) but there has to be some weighting for tournaments, and England were woeful throughout (admitedly there's nothing new in that in recent years) in 2010. All sorts of types of managers have tried in recent years, and while Capello failed badly to turn things for the most part, I have always defended him because he's hardly been part of the problem in the first place if you look back to at least Keegan and beyond.

Sometimes managers aren't suited for certain positions. Capello's had an exceptional career but maybe internationals weren't for him. There also seems to be a trend on judging managers with a good record (Erikson at club level, Benitez) on their last failure in or at England, and trying to argue Capello's career merits to a friend was rather hard in the face of 'he picked Heskey' (This from a Liverpool fan).

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Capello had a 66% win rate, better than any other England manager.

I stand corrected. He is indeed the manager with best win ratio: 66% as you say. Maybe I was thinking about Eriksson. His 60% fits better with the "top bracket" argument, and he has been given dog's abuse as well despite doing pretty darn well with England. As Jason says, it's a no-win situation to be in, and after seeing how a world class manager in Capello has been treated despite good results, I think other managers will think at least twice about taking the job on. That probably includes Redknapp too, particularly since Tottenham is now a pretty serious title contender and is almost certain to play CL football again next season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_football_team_manager#Statistical_summary

Of course there is more to success than win ratio, but with the players available to him I think it is beyond doubt that Capello has done well with England, just as it is with Ericsson (though he had better players at the time I suppose).

Think it could be a good idea to pull a "Germany" actually. The old guard is mostly over the hill and not really good enough for the team any more, so going with young talent might not be a bad idea. Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Welbeck, Wilshire, Walker, Oxlaide. A lot of good talent there that should play for England the next decade if things work out well. Putting some of these in the spine will give England more energy and pace than the likes of Terry, Lampard and Gerrard do, though Gerrard does perhaps still warrant a place in the squad at least.

Whatever happens, I don't envy the new guy. Redknapp gets enough abuse as it is; it will only get worse if he takes the job.

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Totally agree with that post, Pangaea.

Capello was completely hamstrung at the World Cup by three things. Rio Ferdinand's injury, and the loss of form of Rooney and Heskey. In the qualifying campaign Heskey was absolutely fantastic, bully defenders around, holding the ball up well, bringing other people into the game, generally playing as the perfect wall striker. Rooney similarly gobbled up the goals and was in the form of his life. Come the World Cup, Heskey couldn't trap a bag of cement and Rooney looked like a Sunday league player. Add in Ferdinand's injury meaning we were stuck with Upson alongside Terry, two immobile lumps, and the evisceration at the hands of Germany's mobile, technical players was inevitable. Just look at Newcastle's recent games against Fulham and Brighton for how badly it can affect a good side to have two useless strikers and a rubbish centreback. It makes a massive difference to your ball retention and defensive solidity - two absolute fundamental keys of international tournament football, and two things England had in spades during qualifying. Capello did his job, the players failed him when it mattered.

England actually have some relatively modern looking footballers coming through the youth ranks now. Whilst the likes of Terry, Gerrard and Lampard were and are undoubtedly excellent players, they're all throwbacks. No other international side aiming to get to the latter stages of tournaments has the blood-and-thunder centre-half or lung-busting box-to-box midfielder. A central midfield with Wilshere and Cleverley plus a holding player (I don't want to say Rodwell yet as I think he's very overrated despite his undoubted potential) would have a much more natural balance. With a front three of Sturridge, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Adam Johnson or Ashley Young, suddenly England look like a 21st century football team.

The massive, massive glaring problem with this is that the media would kill them for drawing a game. Despite this being what they called for so loudly they made themselves sick after the 2010 World Cup, they would absolutely get right on their backs if it didn't work even for one game. Just look at the France friendly. If a competent coach and a core group of 15 or so players could work behind closed doors between now and 2014, with the remainder of the squad made up of in-form players, we'd have a shot at a good tournament like Germany had in 2010. It just can't happen though, the whole thing is a massive, self-defeating mess.

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Seriously? :eek:

Which songs out of interest? :D

Stone Roses: I Wanna Be Adored

The Beatles: Revolution #9, I Am The Walrus

The Smiths: Panic

The Smiths, I find, only sound good when they're being covered.

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Capello was good with what he did, but we need to 'do a Germany' as was said earlier.

A team like

Hart

Richards

Jagelka

Cahill (NB The DC position is one we're quite well served in, so put whoever you want in there)

Baines/Cole

Parker

Cleverley

Wilshere

Walcott/The Ox

?

Young

For me, the lack of a good English striker is what hamstrings us. And don't tell me about Wayne Rooney, he's not IMO.

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For me, the lack of a good English striker is what hamstrings us. And don't tell me about Wayne Rooney, he's not IMO.

Sturridge could be the guy I think. Quick feet, mobile, great touch, decent enough finisher (which should only improve). And when we go 2 up top Welbeck and Rooney is a ready-made partnership.

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