shifty Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I was wondering what the community would make of this as it seems to fly in the face of convention. First match as Man City in the Euro Cup Qualifying Round, playing at home against Vetra of Lithuania. I leave the team talks largely to my assistant manager, Mark Venus, once I recruit him, just adding my two-penneth to anyone who has a positive PR reaction. The pre-match talk is pretty predictable, as is the effect on the players : http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2874/prematch.png We go in at half time 3-0 up after a good performance and my assistant decides to tell the whole team that he is thrilled with their performance. I fear the worst but we end up winning 7-0. Maybe not too surprising considering the gulf in class, but when I check the team's response to the team talks I get this for half-time ... http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5894/halftime.png ... and this after a 'Well Done' at full-time ... http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5692/fulltime.png So basically, my question is why on this occasion were the team so responsive to the 'Thrilled' half-time team talk when things tend to go very poorly in general if you use it? Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebedee77 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 It all depends on the context... What were the motivation levels of the players prior to half-time? What kind of personalities are in the dressing room? How often do you use that specific team talk? Looking at the half-time teamtalk feedback, I'd suggest that you rarely use the 'thrilled' teamtalk and that in that specific circumstance, with players playing well and already motivated, you managed to spur them on to even greater things in the second half. You may have to beware of complacency and a slump in motivation if you overuse this though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodhiD Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I agree with Zebedee77 about the importance of context. As it's the first game (apart from a friendly or two I assume), the players could well be out to impress you as their new manager. You've also got 3 new players in the side, so the existing players will probably want to impress to keep their place, and new players often start out wanting to impress after signing. Coupled with that, you told them you expected a good performance (win), and they responded in the first half. Acknowledging their effort only reinforced their determination. You've now a good chance of using the other Euro Cup Qualifying games to get a head-start on the team-gelling for the new season. Good job! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFraser Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 It all depends on the context... Indeed. It is not surprising that rush managing or giving whole squad teamtalks combined to regular unchanged tactics and the penchant for purchasing the same "uber" players gives rise to so many teamtalk myths. Getting inside your players heads and understanding the dressing room is a trully amazing addition to FM in my opinion and it such a shame that many users choose to rush past this feature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shifty Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well thanks for the quick responses. I for one had never come across this before so was bemused. Zebedee - The players were all reasonably motivated, yes, and became more so as the half went on and the goals went in. The players have a very mixed bag of personalities but they are ambitious and determined overall. So thanks for your analysis - I reckon you're pretty much spot on. I realise your questions were rhetorical but they made me think as well, so thanks! BodhiD - This was actually the first game, no friendlies at all prior to this so perhaps I struck lucky in that respect. Apart from that, I completely understand what you mean. They all have a determination stat of 13 or over with most being around the 15 mark. And thanks for the kudos! SFraser - I'm with you completely on the benefits of team talks and am hoping that Mark Venus will give me a few pointers towards more success in this area. His stats (Man Management, Motivation, Level of Discipline all at 17, Determination 14) should lend themselves to successful team talks in my opinion so I'll keep watching and report any other 'unexpected' or interesting results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebedee77 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed. It is not surprising that rush managing or giving whole squad teamtalks combined to regular unchanged tactics and the penchant for purchasing the same "uber" players gives rise to so many teamtalk myths. Getting inside your players heads and understanding the dressing room is a trully amazing addition to FM in my opinion and it such a shame that many users choose to rush past this feature. In fairness, the system hadn't received the coverage it requires to be able to start utilising it fully. Wwfan and yourself have greatly aided me in understanding where to find the feedback on motivation levels (that little screen in a dropdown menu in the home/away stats!) and also in what the teamtalks actually 'mean' within the game which allows for more accuracy in judging the 'tone'. I do think that more feedback (eg prior to the match actually starting, an indication of motivation levels would be useful - beyond the extremes spotted by the AM anyways - although if an individual option appears that isn't usually there, that's a good indication) and clearer information in the manual would help dispell a lot of the mythology around teamtalks. I'd love to dig more into the system but that would require using an editor (I'm sure it's related to hidden stats in part) but the information available currently in your stickied posts and in a few threads by wwfan are a good basis for every player right now. (That's a thank you for your efforts btw ). @Shifty - The system itself helps out a bit too - the AM's suggestions can help to shape the tone if you're lacking more specific information while I've noted that additional teamtalk options for an individual are rarely provided without some reason. In a recent match, I was losing 2-0 at half-time for no apparant reason other than just generally everyone was a bit flat - I noticed that almost every player had the additional individual option of 'go and prove a point' so those with robust morale (good or above) I gave this team-talk to while those playing nervously I gave the 'have faith'. Won 3-2 with the players praising my half-time teamtalk after the match. Of course, this was a relatively extreme example but I do think it helps point to the importance of keeping an eye on which options are available to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFraser Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I have not done editor testing either but I think that it is more than fair to suggest that teamtalks work directly with a players hidden mental attributes. I would bet that it is exactly so. I have had players for whom it has become obvious they have a low pressure attribute and these almost invariably respond best to "you have faith" or "no pressure" at the start of a match. Infact I recently started a new LLM save (with Bognor Regis, I had read your posts on this side and they seemed like an interesting challenge) and one of the first challenges for me was getting a handle on the characters in my dressing room so that I could first minimise mistakes then learn to motivate. This observation my be coincidental but it appears to me that the above process seems to have accelerated relationship building despite myself being in a difficult position in terms of discussing performances via the media for the same effect. Whether the increased rate of relationship building was a direct result of my friendly approach at the start of the season or an indirect result of minimising mistakes and performing above expectations, the fact remains that in previous saves media interaction was necessary to establish relationships but in this save it is not. After no less than ten first team players brought in and a similar number out and only six months into the save my assistant reports that morale could not be higher, that the team is blending well together, squad harmony confidence is at 79% and 12 out of 23 players have me listed as favoured personell with minimal media interaction. I consider this entire situation, not teamtalks alone, to be the key element in my success at the club as I have noticed that at this level of management the victors or the team that gets the desired result is very often the side that can eradicate mistakes and maintain motivation for 90 minutes. Whenever I have achieved a victory or a good solid result against superior opposition I have noticed that the collapse in my opponents morale and my teams ability to pressure them into nervous play is one of the fundamental reasons behind the outcome. The highlight of my season so far was a 6-2 2nd round FA Trophy victory at home against Northwich Victoria sitting in a similar league position to myself in the division above. I instructed my team to set about them in a highly positive and high pressure fashion from kick-off and went in at half time at 2-2. The early goal in the second half effectively broke the entire spirit of their side and I won the second half 4-0. You would imagine that 2-2 at half time against a side a division above you would be a positive scoreline and a great performance, but the catalyst for the destruction of the opponent was telling no less than six of my players I was disappointed in their performance while the rest were given individual positive teamtalks. Without strong relationships and a solid bedrock of morale this would have back-fired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebedee77 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Glad to see you trying out Bognor I'm into my second season and just got trounced by the Premier League's Baggies in the 3rd round of the FA Cup - biggest factor in the defeat? I didn't ask enough from the players. At least by setting the bar low, the morale hit wasn't there after the (inevitable?) defeat but I'm still kicking myself for not trusting my own judgement and asking them for a performance. Definitely agree that a more 'personable' approach pays dividends in the lower leagues. The 'tipping point' remains a lot finer though I think - perhaps a reflection of the lower hidden attributes? The importance of having high morale and good gelling can't be understated - you really see a massive improvement when those two click, plus the higher morale can be manipulated for motivational purposes as you indicate. You seem to be able to get away with a lot more if key individuals (especially the captain and the vice-captain) have you listed as favoured personnel - it seems to mitigate any unpleasant side-effects from teamtalks and media interaction. It's just very annoying having to learn how to handle all those 'balanced' personalities as one size definitely doesn't fit all Good luck and may you keep trouncing the BSP and above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.