4-2-3-1 Formation

[Cleon]

I have one concern though, with changing the BWM to Support, one of the holding mid-fielders would venture forward more often than I want him to as his RFD would change to Sometimes. I'd like the holding pair to stay deeper and recycle possession however I will give this a try in pre-season.

Even as defensive the BWM will still play higher than the DLP support due to his closing down. He runs about like a headless chicken. You could use 2 DLP's, one support and 1 defensive? That's what I use in the Newcastle 4-2-3-1 when I push the DMC's up to MC.

[ShirazS]

Even as defensive the BWM will still play higher than the DLP support due to his closing down. He runs about like a headless chicken. You could use 2 DLP's, one support and 1 defensive? That's what I use in the Newcastle 4-2-3-1 when I push the DMC's up to MC.

I've always liked the idea of two DLP's so I might give that a try or even a CM-Defend and a DLP-Support. I also do not like the BWM due to the very high closing down as he gets dragged out of position too much but because my Assistant recommended that as the best role for both Kehl and Sven Bender, I thought it best to start there and see how it went.

I will write down all these different options and then cycle through them in different preseason matches watching the stats and positioning of the specific player, then decide.

[Riziger]

Just out of curiosity... in what way would 4-4-1-1 be a "better" formation than 4-2-3-1? I've tried employing a 4-4-1-1 and the shape turns out pretty similar in the match. The only thing is that it would be better defensively by giving up some attacking ability?

Also doesn't help that the wingers in a 4-4-1-1 can only be wingers or wide men.

[Falahk]

Also doesn't help that the wingers in a 4-4-1-1 can only be wingers or wide men.

why do you see that as a weakness or limitation? you could just tinker the individual sliders/instructions to reflect any other role you wish the wide player to preform

[ShirazS]

Just a small update on my progress. I have played 3 friendlies so far and won all of them comfortably. 2 against decent opposition (Zenit and Corinthians) and one against a much lower team. Things I have noticed so far are:

1. The BWM-Defend and DLP-Support complement each other well and there are not too many missed tackles or interceptions in their zones. Surprisingly the BWM's high closing down has not been exploited yet. I say "not yet" because it is still early days and it hard to really judge in preseason but will experiment with a few changes as the season goes on.

2. The full-backs and Wingers both on Support have formed a nice partnership on the flanks. The FB's will only get forward in risk free situations and the Wingers don't bomb forward at every opportunity but rather choose their runs well and time them to perfection a lot of the time. My only gripe here is that there seem to be too many uncompleted crosses from the flanks. Either my forward players are not advanced enough and the opposition back line clears the crosses from deep or the crosses are not accurate enough or, lastly, they are floated crosses when I have specifically set crossing to "drilled". That is a little frustrating but I will keep monitoring it because there have been a few wonderful goals from a cross.

3. I cannot see any problems with the AMC and ST at the moment, they have played well so far.

So far, so good. I have not made any changes but will keep analyzing every match and see how things pan out. Aside from individual errors, the defense has been solid and the front 4 really move well to create space and exploit it but it is still early days so we shall see.

Regards

Shiraz

[tektonik]

Just chiming in as my go to tactic for playing equal to higher teams in difficulty is an asymmetrical 4-2-3-1.

Few base things I look for in setting up my squad (2020 now, started from creating a team in BSN)

1)Speed - I like 13/13 for all positions I sometimes retrain quality DM to DC

2)Positioning/Anticipation- Like a base of 13 for a lot of players. I do a lot of pressing around mid field so it helps along with 1 for recovering from pressing

3) Rigid with counter attack on and no offsides

4) No long range shots

By position.

Keeper- Aerial ability. Most shots are long range shots.

CB - very limited, more so than traditional settings have it at. I want them to close down, pressure and win the ball to distribute to one of my 2 DM

FB - Limited, passing set to mixed, rare crosses that are deep. I don't want them joining attacks to leave me open in the back. They still get up but rarely, if ever, get around the 18 yard box

BWM - I have set to close down a bit more, passes set to very short. Helps to have some heading to cover.

DLP - Max passing, lots of creativity. Doesn't close down as much but doesn't have to because the winger helps on his side on the flank whereas the BWM sometimes has to cover wide.

B2B - Work horse of an MC. Closes down around the pitch, sometimes through balls, sometimes runs from deep, sometimes dribbles. Earlier versions De Rossi would be perfect...In 2020 for my England squad I have Phil Jones or Wilshire in there pending how much defense I want. Easily the second most important position along with striker. I have to have at least 3 people able to play this because they tend to tire around the 80 min mark regardless of fitness or stamina.

Winger (MR slot)- speed, dribble, cross, technique, pass. Doesn't need much else, also good for corners if DLP is not. Flair is a bonus, as is creativity. Set to hug touchline, cross often and mixed, dribble often and run from deep. If passing is good along with some creativity I will give him through ball potential.

IF (AML)- Basically a speed striker re trained to the AML spot. Fast, headers, finishing, dribble. He can disappear at times for a stretch of games but then suddenly barge in with a brace and 2 assists. A lot of times he just gets un marked in the box on a cross. I almost always end up re training a Striker or an AMC with finishing to this spot as all natural AML have poor finishing IME.

Striker- Speed striker. Runs onto the ball for target man setup. Passing is a big plus if you want him to lay some through balls for the AML.

How games tend to play out.

I will yield possession most of the time. Shots can be even but I almost always have 10+ shots with 1-2 long shots and the opposing team will be at 7+ long shots (pending on how many set pieces they got a header to). My striker, AML will press forcing the ball inside where most of the time I have a numbers advantage or man to man with my 3 in the middle. A long shot will probably get skyed or blocked and when they go out wide they have a hard time finding a head. upon a turnover the ball gets to the MC or MR for a build up attack or there is an over the top ball to my striker. Usually goals come from break aways or corners.

Goals I concede tend to be from drilled crosses that are not defended well, corners that rebounds unfavorably and gets to someone's feet, that ungodly 1-2 pass that will manage to break my line(usually form my high pressing leaving the CB/BWM in no man's land) or the long shot. Goals against are sparse though. I rarely concede more than 1 a game if at all.

As my team is now top flight EPL I don't use this as much as I used to. I found conceding 50-60 possession to a mid table or sometimes lower table team to be a risk not worth it when I could play a higher up tactic and force turnovers from their poor defender play. I now use a base 4-1-3-2 with an MR and one striker that is a DLP. I find I can force long kicks from goal kicks (I tend to win most of those headers) and forcing their Def passing percent below 40% is almost always going to guarantee me a win.

My 4-2-3-1 is still used against the likes of Manchester Clubs and the away fixtures in the UCL.

It might not even be my tactic is THAT good. But retraining players has helped a ton to get the stats where I need them (DM -> DC for speed, MC->DM for DLP, DC,DM -> MC for a Box 2 Box, Striker -> AML and AMC -> striker for DLP)

[Rene.Girard]

All of these that you write is waste of time .I will give you some tips because I have played as a professional player and I know how to apply a succesfull 4-2-3-1 .

Make the best pre season as possible

Avoid slow players who are tall or old .Avoid to play with short passes .You become very predictable and your opponent is outplaying you easily .

Dont push up because 4-2-3-1 is not helping you on covering your wings or your central axes .4-2-3-1 is suitable only for gifted teams which can use several attacking

minded players together .Dont use players who are not mature enough .When you see players with less than 14 in concentration or composure you simply dont use them .

In other words ,its a delicate formation ideal for teams like Real ,Bayern and maybe some for Zenit or Villarreal in their good periods .Atletico used 4-2-3-1 in a very

well designed way...Half pitch pressing ,counter attack ,defensive mentality ,through the center attacks and almost long balls targeting Falcao or Diego .

And because 90% coaches or fm players dont know it ,simply avoid using 4-2-3-1 .Even if your team is perfect ,in the defensive transition you will have to cover several

empty spaces and you will need to cope with several individual mistakes from your players .4-2-3-1 is not a modern formations .It has been used at least 3 decades .

Several teams in Holland made 4-3-3 of ajax different by using 2dmc or mc one player maker upfront them and wingers .Open up your eyes and take care of your choices .

I have read whole thread but you are far away from getting the basic points of 4-2-3-1

[däkkä]

Sometimes I wonder if our trolling Frenchman (is he French?) has ever even played the game.

[grimness]

He is Greek and he is penishead and I'll get infraction but do I look butt hurt?

[Rene.Girard]

I dont have a french flag to show you right now and I dont think that Montpellier is in Greece .Maybe you dont know geography .

As for the infraction is the only common practise in neo-facism protestantic countries .I have play the game million times ,unfortunately you have not kick a ball in your life

thats why you never accept someone else who is different than you .4-2-3-1 is not helping you to have adequate defensive cover because the defensive triangles between mc and dr or between aml and mc are very long .

The same happens from the other side .Did you see recently juventus of antonio conte ?All the players are tights as pairs .Especially in 3-5-2 .Dont lick any more this pill of

modernisation...Its enough

[däkkä]

I think he fell into a cauldron of LSD as a baby.

[Gee_Simpson]

I think he fell into a cauldron of LSD as a baby.

:lol:

[ricardomac]

I don't want to get in the discussion, or get an infraction. And I might not add relevant stuff to this thread, but I have to write what I'm thinking.

I don't know why almost all football players think they are good managers, or why they think that, to be a football manager, you need to have played the game. You don't. All you need is to love the game and study a lot. Football is not all about tactics, in fact I think it has, nowadays, a lot to do with people more than tactics. You need to be a great at human relationships (not in a gay way) and you need to be analytical. Well, in short, you need to be smart and what most players aren't (sorry to those of you who play and don't fit the example) is smart.

To the point now. 4-2-3-1 might not be modern. It might not even be great, but it is, these days, the most used formation. Tactics vary, but the formation is the same. And in different variants of the formation. Narrow, with two DMs, a DM and a CM, etc. There are many variants of the 4-2-3-1 formation. Even in the lower leagues, and I'm talking of my Portuguese football, teams are using this formation. And using short passes. Arsenal used it, Spain uses it, Germany, even Jorge Jesus got my Benfica team playing 4-2-3-1 with short passes, and I could keep on going. In FM, unfortunately, you can not command your players to do everything you want. But it is a great tactic to use even though. With the right ballance of roles and duties you can have a solid defensive formation as well as an attacking threat. I used to use a DLP on defend in one of the CM roles and CM on support. The DLP stayed in the hole (at least some of the time) close to my central defenders, both in stopping and covering roles (or duties, I don0t care). And mt AMC sometimes was an Advanced Playmaker, others an Inside Forward, and other a simple AMC. Duties switched as I needed it. My wingers proveded crosses, my Full backs cover from the flanks. I scored plenty and conceded few. All this in FM 2010 and playing a short passing game with lots of pressure and a high defensive line.

In the late versions of the game I got back to my beloved 4-4-2 and its variations. But, though it may not be the furture, 4-2-3-1 s a great formation to play. As long as you know what your doing. And yeah, I never played football professionaly, nor even as an amateur. But I know a lot about street football, played at my house door for decades. And I watch a lot of football games.

Sorry for entering a stupid discussion. Hope what I wrote about the formation is helpful. And if there are any errors, English is not my language.

[agentvinz]

One of my problem in 4-2-3-1 is the ST and AMC.. Sometimes I struggle to get my AMC to stay in the hole to cause damage especially against formation without DM.. But he tends to drop deep to the MC thus not playing many dangerous key passes,n I've set him as my team's playmaker, and I set my 2 MCs to stay deep to give room for my AMC. I give my AMC attacking mentality, lots of freedom, RFD and RWB mixed, move in channel and roaming..

MY Striker also sometimes don't play the way I want, he also drop deep and linking play but I want him to stay high upfront and focus on scoring.. I've give him high mentality, low freedom, RFD often and no roaming.. Sometimes he score goals but sometimes he has less than 3 shot in a game but with lots of passing!

[ShirazS]

Use your AMC as an Advanced Playmaker - Attack/Support and he will exactly as you want

[Techstep]

I've used 4-2-3-1's for as my tactic of choice for the past 3 Football Managers. Usually i set up with a winger, an inside forward, an Advanced forward, 2 Deep lying Playmakers and an attacking midfielder or Advance playmaker depending on who i have at my disposal and most of these have been succesful.

Recently though i've been trying to set it up a little differently, and failing miserably. All the problems stem around 3 players, my AMC, Right foward and Striker. For the life of me i just can't get them to operate how i envisaged at the start of the season.

Usually, i expect as most my play revolves around my AMC, and usually he's my best player, a brilliant passer, great creativity and teamwork.

But this time round i've got this man: http://s8.postimage.org/s3g8b6cr9/Marcovich.jpg He's got great passing and likely to be really creative as he ages, but i feel an attacking midfielder or Advanced playmaker role just wouldnt make use of his great finishing. So i wanted to set him up as an inside forward

With the players at my disposal i have a DLF, he's a monster of a targetman, 6'4" strong, great at jumping and good on the deck too, though rather poor at scoring headers oddly. The left side i have a standard winger, he's not a problem, whips in crosses as i want and beats his man. On the right i have a striker turned inside forward, he's accomplished there atm though not natural and here lies my first problem. He's a right footed inside forward on the right, so... he goes on the outside... ALOT, nearly all the time in fact. Has anyone had any success with a right footed inside forward on the right? Is there any way i can encourage him to go inside? There seems to be space for him to do so, and it often looks to be the fullback is showing him outside. But with good pace and dribbling i expect him to be doing better.

So, at the start of the season, i imagined balls being played into my DLF and him playing through my AMC Inside forward and right wing Inside forward, and these guys being my main scorers. This has been far from the case. My AMC, ramon, gets alot of time on the ball, but all in the hole. It usually ends up with him trying to thread through balls to my targetman, who can barely outrun a snail. Ideally in this situation, i'd like to see him play it into my targetman and run on passed him, allowing the DLF to thread a ball back through to him, or my inside forward coming from the right, who typically is hugging the touchline at this point. Instead far too often my DLF turns and trys to run at goal when my Inside forward retrieves it.

I toyed with the ideal of turning one of my DLP into an AP to perhaps allow my AMC the ability to push further on, whether this would work or not i don't know, but i am reluctant to do so as my two DLP's are crucial to my defending, and are rarely allowed far forward.

So i guess my questions are. Has anyone had any success with an inside forward in the AMC position or any luck with a right footed inside forward on the right. And how would they use Ramon, the player i linked, in their own setup? Bearing in mind how versatile he is.

[Bruce Drundrige]

Is your AMR on Support or Attack?

[Techstep]

Attack. As is the AM. The AML and DLF have been rotating between Attack and support as I've been looking for solutions.

Do you believe switching him to support would help? I'd worry he'd end up in the hole trying to thread balls to my DLF like my AM is.

[Rene.Girard]

I know very well what I say and what I mean .Click here to see what I mean by saying compact ,tight and fiery 4-2-3-1 .Without having your lines far and without making any gaps in the transition to defence .I have a clear idea on how to make an iron-solid tactic .

[Siven]

Is it just me or do Inside forwards play better with move into channels rather than cut inside?

And as for the tactic link posted above, i find those posts useless unless you explain why you made certain decisions and the benefits gained from them. Otherwise i see no point in downloading them (not that i do anyway but i like to see what changes people do with their tactics).

[Techstep]

I've debated trying move into channels on my Right inside forward though haven't yet. I have tried it on my AMC Inside forward, the issue i have with it is he often seems to push up alongside my DLF, where ideally i'd want him to be running from deeper past my DLF.

I also imagine if you use Move into Channels on your IF's as well as your striker they'd possibly get in each others way? Or reduce the space for each other

[Riziger]

Still not too sure how to set up my AMC and ST. Tried going with AM and Complete Forward Support and it works to a certain extent but against a 4-1-2-2-1, both get nullified and start getting in each others way.

How do you guys set it up? If it helps the pairing is usually Gerrard/Suarez or sometimes Carroll/Suarez.

[furiousuk]

I've debated trying move into channels on my Right inside forward though haven't yet. I have tried it on my AMC Inside forward, the issue i have with it is he often seems to push up alongside my DLF, where ideally i'd want him to be running from deeper past my DLF.

I also imagine if you use Move into Channels on your IF's as well as your striker they'd possibly get in each others way? Or reduce the space for each other

With your aggressive attacker at AMC you need more creativity elsewhere ideally (I'm assuming you get this from your midfielders but some secondary creativity further up is pretty useful). I'm not surprised your AML is playing fine because he is staying wider where he has space and where he can do a job. With an attacking AMC and a more creative FC they'll pair up pretty like a 442 . It's useful to think of it a bit like that as well. That's why your AMR isn't doing what you want...

1) There isn't much space inside so he won't be overly keen to go in there

2) This might be a bit sophisticated for the AI but if your guy can't cross or pass particularly well then he is ONLY a threat coming inside, if I was against him I'd show him the outside too.

If you've got a standard winger on the left why not have your guy on the right as a creative force whereby he tucks in behind your front '2' and plays through balls from back there. With creative freedom and roaming he'll move around a bit but if he's got good mentals he'll find the space vacated by your AMC (or close to it). With good mentals he'll still regularly spot your AML moving forward and will be looking for crosses but even if he doesn't get on the end of a cross he might be in a good position to pick up any half-clearances or knock-downs.

I know this doesn't fit your striker-on-the-wing but if you want 2 primary attackers operating straight through the middle maybe there isn't room for an aggressive attacker in at AMR as well.

As for your AMC/FC interaction. I'd make sure one has move into channels whilst the other plays normal (i.e. through the middle). I normally prefer the FC to move wider and try and open a gap for the AMC but the opposite can also be good (particularly against 3 at the back I've found). With your AMR playing a little deeper both these central guys can enjoy a little more space.

You might even consider trying to get your DR further forward to provide a crossing threat from the right as well as a creative one.

[MeesterCat]

Interesting thread!

I've just been reading it intently as the 4-2-3-1 is my favoured formation, but I've found it harder to get working in FM12. I'm a naturally cautious manager so I've been trying the deeper version with two DMs as I found that the 'standard' version was getting too crowded in the centre with the two MCs, AMC and STR all getting in each other's way.

This has raised other issues of course!

I now find that the AMC is becoming a little isolated. A solution which has worked to a degree is to have the AMC as a Trequartista so that he roams, often a little deeper to collect the ball. I think I've been able to get away with this as my AMC is Eden Hazard, but ideally I would now like to find a hybrid of the two: Have two MCs rather than DMs but have them a little deeper so as not to congest the centre. I hadn't thought of playing a BWM on Support and a DLP on Defend so I might give that a go.

[Techstep]

I now find that the AMC is becoming a little isolated. A solution which has worked to a degree is to have the AMC as a Trequartista so that he roams, often a little deeper to collect the ball. I think I've been able to get away with this as my AMC is Eden Hazard, but ideally I would now like to find a hybrid of the two: Have two MCs rather than DMs but have them a little deeper so as not to congest the centre. I hadn't thought of playing a BWM on Support and a DLP on Defend so I might give that a go.

I Originally had the same reservations as you about playing 2 MC's but I found having 2 DLP's, one defend, one support, worked well for me. They never stray too far forward but stay close enough to attacks to offer an option and recycle possession as I wanted them two. The support one also creates quite a few moves as he's a more attack minded player with good passing (Axe Witsel)

I've never had much luck with BWM as I find their closing down leaves too many holes.

[MeesterCat]

I Originally had the same reservations as you about playing 2 MC's but I found having 2 DLP's, one defend, one support, worked well for me. They never stray too far forward but stay close enough to attacks to offer an option and recycle possession as I wanted them two. The support one also creates quite a few moves as he's a more attack minded player with good passing (Axe Witsel)

I've never had much luck with BWM as I find their closing down leaves too many holes.

I'll certainly give it a go. Helpfully, I'm in close season so it's a good time to try and get a new formation learnt.

One question though: Do you alter the individual settings for the defensive minded DLP? I only ask because my main midfield pairing is Mavuba and Pedretti. Pedretti is already playing in the DLP Support role but deeper, but a DLP is not really Mavuba's ideal role.

[Techstep]

I'll certainly give it a go. Helpfully, I'm in close season so it's a good time to try and get a new formation learnt.

One question though: Do you alter the individual settings for the defensive minded DLP? I only ask because my main midfield pairing is Mavuba and Pedretti. Pedretti is already playing in the DLP Support role but deeper, but a DLP is not really Mavuba's ideal role.

I haven't made any changes to him as of yet but am considering it. He's primarily a Defensive Mid anyway but got Ok passing. He generally stays where i want him on the pitch, but recently he's been getting caught in possession so i may drop his through balls slightly. I've never looked at Mavuba on FM (Good on fifa mind!) but if he's just a destroyer with no ball skills then he might struggle in the role. My DM is a regen, has 15 passing but a low 11 in creativity, with a good work rate. Generally he seems to do fine with the default settings, usually doing simple layoffs to Witsel.

Its just the only setup in a 4-2-3-1 that the midfielders posistion themselves where i want them. So i suppose if i use the DLP Mentality and closing down i could fiddle with most other things. Though i find it important to make sure they have run from deep set to rarely, this is crucial for me to hold a good defensive shape, especially if i get broken against, neither will make it back in time if their at the oppositions box.

With your aggressive attacker at AMC you need more creativity elsewhere ideally (I'm assuming you get this from your midfielders but some secondary creativity further up is pretty useful). I'm not surprised your AML is playing fine because he is staying wider where he has space and where he can do a job. With an attacking AMC and a more creative FC they'll pair up pretty like a 442 . It's useful to think of it a bit like that as well. That's why your AMR isn't doing what you want...

1) There isn't much space inside so he won't be overly keen to go in there

2) This might be a bit sophisticated for the AI but if your guy can't cross or pass particularly well then he is ONLY a threat coming inside, if I was against him I'd show him the outside too.

If you've got a standard winger on the left why not have your guy on the right as a creative force whereby he tucks in behind your front '2' and plays through balls from back there. With creative freedom and roaming he'll move around a bit but if he's got good mentals he'll find the space vacated by your AMC (or close to it). With good mentals he'll still regularly spot your AML moving forward and will be looking for crosses but even if he doesn't get on the end of a cross he might be in a good position to pick up any half-clearances or knock-downs.

I know this doesn't fit your striker-on-the-wing but if you want 2 primary attackers operating straight through the middle maybe there isn't room for an aggressive attacker in at AMR as well.

As for your AMC/FC interaction. I'd make sure one has move into channels whilst the other plays normal (i.e. through the middle). I normally prefer the FC to move wider and try and open a gap for the AMC but the opposite can also be good (particularly against 3 at the back I've found). With your AMR playing a little deeper both these central guys can enjoy a little more space.

You might even consider trying to get your DR further forward to provide a crossing threat from the right as well as a creative one.

Thanks for replying Furious.

I had a feeling the space could be a problem for the Right forward. I hoped the DLF would almost swap positions with my AMC in the final third, so that he and my RAM would be ahead of the DLF bearing down on goal. But it doesnt seem to be the case, with the DLF and AMC standing next to each other 2 yards apart alot of the time.

I'm of the same preference as you with the striker running the channels and the AM on normal, though i've rotated it with little success on both.

The inside forward on the right doesn't really have the ability to be a creative force behind the other 2, with a mere 13 passing, and poor creativity, he's all about getting on the end of things or running at people with the ball. He's a monster in a 4-4-2 as an advanced forward.

Tonight i've been thinking i may try Ramon (the AMC) as a Trequista, though i've no used one in any formation before. Its perhaps that or Retrain him to come inside from the left wing or perhaps retrain him as a striker.

[furiousuk]

Tonight i've been thinking i may try Ramon (the AMC) as a Trequista, though i've no used one in any formation before. Its perhaps that or Retrain him to come inside from the left wing or perhaps retrain him as a striker.

With a less aggressive AMC you can probably afford the AMR to move forward and might even want the FC to go further forward and create lots of movement to try and create space for the AMR and himself whereby your AMC can pick them out - or spray it wider to the AML who can then try and find the FC and AMR in the middle. I use something like this with a 4231 because, like you, my AMR is a goal-scoring beast with not a great deal else going for him.

The inside forward on the right doesn't really have the ability to be a creative force behind the other 2, with a mere 13 passing, and poor creativity, he's all about getting on the end of things or running at people with the ball. He's a monster in a 4-4-2 as an advanced forward.

Yup, sounds fairly similar to my guy. I primarily use a 433 (41221) which might be something you want to fiddle with.

Good luck whichever you way you go with it! 4231 is pretty difficult in FM!!

[Techstep]

Yup, sounds fairly similar to my guy. I primarily use a 433 (41221) which might be something you want to fiddle with.

Good luck whichever you way you go with it! 4231 is pretty difficult in FM!!

Yeah i've noticed a 4-2-3-1 seems far more difficult to set up in FM12 than the others, though i had a good one at FC Twente.

The way you've suggested is how i would usually set up too. An AMC who sprays balls to the front three often, and less aggressive than what i have. Its that player i've got thats upset the balance. I just see 20 finishing on him and think it would be a waste not to have him in the box often putting chances away. I'm now toying with putting him as a Trequartista striker in a 4-4-2 alongside my Right forward.

Its a shame but the way i have in mind doesnt seem possible without some extreme fiddling.

Out of curiosity, is your right forward left footed?

[Cleon]

You see the thing about the 4-2-3-1 is only really good against inferior oppoistion. Against superior oppoistion they'll just use the massive amounts of space between the MC's and defence and on the wings. It works like this in real life too.

[furiousuk]

Out of curiosity, is your right forward left footed?

Yup, (although not bad with his right). I play deep so he normally uses his immense physicality to get on the end of balls or terrify the opposition with pace and power before using his reasonable finishing skills to slap one home, he's on something like 150-170 goals from 200-odd appearances so he does alright. Rubbish when we're chasing the game though, acts all superman and normally dispatches a few into row Z.

[Luizinho]

Furiousuk; do you reckon you could post your interpretation of the 4-2-3-?1; have been searching the web for ideas and looking for a solid base..

[Riziger]

Sad to say that my Liverpool squad just can't play the 4-2-3-1 that I wanted them to. Given up on that and reverted to a 4-1-2-2-1.

[agentvinz]

Anyone know how to set the AMC to sit between the opp's defence and midfield so he can wreck havoc especially if the opp doesn't use any DM?? So far I've set him with attacking mentality, high freedom, RFD and RWB mixed, often trhough balls, roaming and move into channels. But he doesn't play consistent enough

[Reedy_1988]

Would using a Trequista not do what you wanting your AMC to do?

[agentvinz]

Would using a Trequista not do what you wanting your AMC to do?

Actually Treq never work for me. With RFD rarely he mostly stay deep near my MC thus not making any dangerous run despite having move into channels and roaming, and with no closing down he's non existent like a ghost ( this is weird because closing down only affect his defensive responsibilities) . The idea of Treq is a player who doesn't defend at all and keep looking for space instead but with the default PI for Treq it doesn't work at all, he mostly stay deep and non existent like I've said. Any idea to make it work?

[Reedy_1988]

hmm maybe RFD mixed? but it'd be quite similar to how you set your AMC up originally have you tried setting him as playmaker or even target man and set pass to feet? should get him abit more involved providing he has the space and the midfield and defence are able to find him fairly regular

[agentvinz]

hmm maybe RFD mixed? but it'd be quite similar to how you set your AMC up originally have you tried setting him as playmaker or even target man and set pass to feet? should get him abit more involved providing he has the space and the midfield and defence are able to find him fairly regular

Yeah RFD mixed seems to work better but I still don't get it why the default PI is RFD rarely, does this mean that we shouldn't depend on default PI ? I've set him as playmaker, and he achieve more passes but still couldn't make as many key passes as I want. I've played wide and have 2 holding midfield so he should get lots of space.

[Reedy_1988]

Yeah RFD mixed seems to work better but I still don't get it why the default PI is RFD rarely, does this mean that we shouldn't depend on default PI ? I've set him as playmaker, and he achieve more passes but still couldn't make as many key passes as I want. I've played wide and have 2 holding midfield so he should get lots of space.

For him to achieve key passes what roles have your other attacking options got? im guessing your playing AML, AMC, AMR, ST?

[Llew_Arshavin23]

I've been trying to emulate Arsenal's fluid core in their 4-2-3-1 midfield for a while now on Football Manager. As expected, it's been difficult. For anyone who's watched Arsenal and specifically focused on the midfield, you'd have noticed that the core is interchangeable. Sometimes Tomas Rosický is the furthest forward of the three, while later on in the game you can see Alex Song or Mikel Arteta play there. Sort of like this;

What's the best method to achieve this fluid system? I have a 4-3-3 (4-1-2-2-1) formation which I use often and, in that one, I've set Mikel Arteta to 'Roam from Position'. This, at times, allows him to become the furthest forward of the midfield trio. Should I try that same method with a 4-2-3-1 formation, but set all three midfield players to 'Roam from Position' or would this just create chaos amongst the midfield? It's quite a hard situation to recreate with the current Football Manager match engine, in my opinion. This is a good example from our match vs. Blackburn;

[ShirazS]

lucatonix has managed to re-create the "triple pivot" here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/259068-Creating-a-Triple-Pivot-System

[retrodude09]

*bump*

on a little side note: it's amazing how not being able to get your tactic to work (causing sub par performances) can affect how much you enjoy the game.

For the love of me, I can't get this formation to work and it's really starting to annoy me, considering how well I've used this system in the past and now all of a sudden, it's impossible to get right because the ME can't deal with two central midfield players defending properly - either that, or everything else is going wrong for me, I'm not sure.

I think I'm going to take a couple of days off from FM and then have another go, we'll see

[Majiballbrfc]

I play the 4231 with a lot of success in FM2012, although it's very attacking. Flat 4 as normal with 2 stoppers, full backs att or supp dependent on their strengths. Advanced playmaker sup, with originally a BWM Def and now a CM Def. The front 4 again mainly wingers on Att but I have played another advanced playmaker out wide on att. Attacking midfielder with a target man and with this in the main I haven't struggled.

As silly as it sounds my main part is too ensure every player is playing in their best role regardless of my tactic, obviously I sign players whose attributes match what I want but I've played full back on one side and wing-backs on the other with little negative effect to results as I rotate my two teams a lot.

[furiousuk]

*bump*

on a little side note: it's amazing how not being able to get your tactic to work (causing sub par performances) can affect how much you enjoy the game.

For the love of me, I can't get this formation to work and it's really starting to annoy me, considering how well I've used this system in the past and now all of a sudden, it's impossible to get right because the ME can't deal with two central midfield players defending properly - either that, or everything else is going wrong for me, I'm not sure.

I think I'm going to take a couple of days off from FM and then have another go, we'll see

Do you use MC's or DM's for your holding midfielders?

Check some of Cleon's threads - loads of info on why the 4231 usually works better in FM with DM's. I think the main advantage is that the midfielders will naturally sit deeper and clog up that dangerous hole in-front of your DC's, there are far more likely to be caught out of position as MC's.

[fmjeros]

I usually use 2 formations for my teams "the one and only" 451 with DMC and the 4231 with 2 MC's ( called also as 4231 Denmark). I consider the first to be more succesfull in FM due to the fact that there is more space for the players to do their own thing( especially the wide players), you can play with the same tactic for seasons without alter anything.

But when it comes to 4231 you need to be alerted all the time and not sleeping on the bench, e.g when the opposite team plays with an attacking midfielder you should immediately change one of your MC to defend and probably man mark that guy. I know people are bored and want the "easy way" to just download a super tactic but trust me that's not the case with the 4231.The challenge to pick the right roles and create the so much needed space in order this tactic to work is something that can keep you in the game for hours trying to figure it out.

[7Bestie7]

The one thing I have found with any variation of the 4-2-3-1 compared to the 4-4-2 is that it's extremely difficult to screw up the 4-4-2 whereas it's very, very easy to set up a 4-2-3-1 variety and have it either fall flat (generally or against a specific team/tactic) or not be as potent as it might be.

For me this formation (4-2-3-1/4-3-3) more than any other reveals the true holistic reality of football. A totally defensive back line in the 4-2-3-1 has major impact on the attack and how effective it might be, changing the roles (and positions) of your "2" might put too much stress/not enough on their role defensively and depending upon the AM and ST used will impact not only your overall threat but also change the way the wingers/inside forwards are able to do what you want them to do.

[TwinsFan86]

Something I've had quite a bit of success with is using the 2 MC's as CM/d and DLP/d and using zonal marking. I'll hopefully be able to go into more detail here or maybe start a new thread exploring the 4-2-3-1 version I have finally settled on later on tonight after work.

[KorbenRyan]

Something I've had quite a bit of success with is using the 2 MC's as CM/d and DLP/d and using zonal marking. I'll hopefully be able to go into more detail here or maybe start a new thread exploring the 4-2-3-1 version I have finally settled on later on tonight after work.

I've found similar to this that CMs rather than DMs can work but only if they stay behind the ball even in possession. That way if a move breaks down the opposition always has a box of 4 to break down. Because the 4231 leans toward using at least one Inside Forward you need width from the full backs but to me that makes it essential to have 2 midfielders holding at all times. When I'm playing possession I'll also play with a slightly high d-line to limit the space between the centre backs and CMs. When doing this I go for a Defend/Defend Central defence combo and play the offside trap and a sweeper keeper.

-

In front of the CMs I like to try and produce a 2 supplier/2 finisher combo. Normally 2 wingers on support with a Poacher and Attacking Mid(Attack) or a winger(Support) AMC as AP(Support), an Inside Forward(Attack) and a Poacher. Obviously the finishers produce assists and the suppliers chip in with goals but they are setup to have a primary purpose and to maximise space regardless of the defensive setup.

The few times a team has managed to stifle the space I'll drop the d-line a few notches, move a CM to DMl, set as DLP(s) and as the teams playmaker in the team instructions, that way one of the most creative players in my team is left with time to look up and pick a pass to unlock the congested defence.

I can't recall coming across an opposition formation that has the ability to sit deep enough to counter the threat in behind, enough DMs to handle the 2 suppliers sitting in front of the defence and also have a more advanced midfielder to sit on my DM. About the only formation would be a 4231 deep but with so many of my players sitting in the gap between their DMs and AM line I normally find it quite easy to pass my way through them.

Ramble over lol.

[ShirazS]

Does anyone have a 4-2-3-1 setup they are using in FM13 which is successful and, most importantly, plays some good football? I am really struggling to get a setup that produces exciting attacking football and would love some recommendations

[slipknot67]

Does anyone have a 4-2-3-1 setup they are using in FM13 which is successful and, most importantly, plays some good football? I am really struggling to get a setup that produces exciting attacking football and would love some recommendations

this has done quite well for me over the last few seasons, you should check roles and duties fit the attributes of your players though as they are tailored to the players in my squad.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?542a7u7kqckoy3x