tts0
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Posts posted by tts0
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To those who argue about cutting inside and all that. Guys, do you actually watch football nowadays or just highlights or whatnot? Wide players dont take on their man IRL as often as you might suggest; and if they do, they go to the byline more often than not, trying to cross or cut the ball back. Cutting inside equals turnovers these days and happens only in specific environment like counterttack or perfectly permormed 1v1 iso. Expecting your widemen to cut inside, dribble past 3 opponents and score is just silly. Those days are gone, Im sorry.
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Lots of people made a good point in this thread so Im not gonna repeat that. I will say this though.
THIS GAME IS SO VANILLA, SO GLITTERY SOFT! To the point it gets... outrageous, ironically.
There is almost no chance something unplesant happens in the game universe.
- clubs bankruptcy, forced relegations and all that? Like never happens.
- career ending or at least years lingering injuries that force player to retire or diminish their abilities significantly? Like never happens.
- players refusing to sign with your team because they dont like you, stuff member or potential teammate? Like never happens.
- players not getting along with teammates, stuff members causing havoc and outrage in the locker room? Like never happens.
- unfriendly media trying to get you fired by turning the fans and the board against you via mean and untruthful articles? Like never happens.
- agents trying to convince their clients not to sign with your team because they dont like you? Like never happens
- "media pressing" trying to turn the fans against certain player in order to make him leave the club? Like never happens.
- fans protests causing games postponement, fines or even owners selling the club? Like never happens.
And so on, and so forth. I hope you get the point.
Right now you just load up the save, buy some wonderkids, plug some gegenpressing tactics (or whatever the META is at the moment) and win games in this ideal universe. No challenge at all!
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8 hours ago, rusty217 said:
When were they generated? IIRC all newgens created at game start are capped at 130. So any club that needs players generated for them because there aren't enough in the default database can't get anybody with over 130 PA.
That should only be the case for the first year though. Not sure how long it takes for those generated players to actually make it to the draft, so if you've only run a few years maybe the initial batch are still the ones being drafted (check their history page, if the first entry is 2021 or 2022 (for a Jan 2022 start) then that's the case). Any generated in later years should be uncapped though.
So, I ran a quick test and that actually seems the case. I would classify that as a bug though, cuz all those "propper" newgens, not capped at 130 PA are not eligible for a draft till like 5 seasons in. But anyway, maybe it would actually simulate me a more realistic and gradual growth path for my fictional universe.
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To me this thread pretty much sums up the way that world goes nowadays. People on one side of the spectrum try to make a fuss about things that "normal" people should not care about like gender, sexual orientaton, religion, skin color of others and whatnot, so those on the other side get triggered and we can have a pointless argument for days, potentially causing some tention over nothing essentially. Thats a very good news for those, who want to rule the world and noone else. That being said, I dont like those kind on stuff in the game, so I guess I may prefer escapism, eventhough Im all for realistic rules, leagues alinement and so on. One thing I gotta say though - I dont find womens football in that category and if done correctly, that could be a nice way to experience some different gameplay in FM. Also someones mentioned OOTP. Their game is nowhere near FM in terms of complexity and whatnot, but... its somehow more fun. THe amount of customization you can make in real time is ridiculous. Turning on/off scouting, injuries, finances, developement, newgens; adding/removing teams, changing league rules/alinements and so on and so fort. I would be over the moon, if we had that in FM.
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Guys, thanks for replying. So, that might be a bug or like the wierdest coincidence ever. Unfortunatelly, Im an idiot, who already deleted the save file and the editor file, so I cant report it. Anyway, I conjecture that it might have something to do with a fact, that MLS draftees are generated at the age of 20-22. My initial thought was, its also affected by the teams and leagues reputaton, their facilities, youth developement etc, but even maxing it out didint get me any player above 130 PA. There were plenty at 130 PA year in year out though, so thats why it seemed capped to me.Maybe there is somebody with similar experience?
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So, I had this crazy idea of making MLS the best league in the world and US the best and quite frankly the only footballing coutry in my database. I changed lots of things in said database, including all the funny stuff like league reputation, game importance, youth rating etc. and ran few years of simulation to see, how it could affect the game. What Ive noticed thanks to in-game editor is that MLS draftees seem capped at 130 PA. So my question is - why?!
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57 minutes ago, roykela said:
But scouts aren't judging their genetic potential limit of a player. They are scouting players with their own perceived potential limit of a player.
They will never, ever know the genetic potential limit.
That will vary between different scouts. As it does in-game.
Real life: Each player has their own genetic potential. It is unknown.
Game: Each player has their own genetic potential (PA). It is unknown, until you look under the hood.
Real life scouts: Each scout are judging young players from their own perceived perspective of a players max talent. Qualified guesswork and some are better than others.
Game scouts: Each scout are judging young players from their own perceived perspective of a players max talent (PPA) - Perceived Potential Ability). Qualified guesswork.
Reason i say this is because of two points.
1. Don't confuse PA with PPA. They are not the same and can potentially be very different, depending on the scouting/coaching eyes that see and judge the players.
2. I base my writing here on having had an agent in the past myself and having conversed with another agent; albeit, quite a bit longer than 2 years ago.
When a real life scout is talking about a player's potential they are not talking about his actual genetic potential limit (PA). They're talking about the potential they see him having. Their own perceived potential rating (PPA).The thing with in-game PPA is that oftentimes it seems completely without any corelation to actual attributes. As a hobby scout myself I gotta say, there is no chance I could rate a player high without actual visible indicators of his supposed talent. It could be anything - certain body frame, natural pace, technique, passing range, reflexes or whatever, but it has to be there. In FM there are plenty of high PA newgens(rated high by scouts too) without any sort of base attributes presented. This doesnt make any sense to me.
And getting to the developement point of the discussion. I would like to see some sort of base attributes for developement too. For example - a player with 20 technique should be able to develop other technical skills(passing, finishing etc.) quicker. Player with good teamwork should develop tactical attributes quicker. Player with certain body frame and natural fitness should develop strenght, balance or whatever quicker etc. Right now it seems random.
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3 hours ago, KingCanary said:
The first paragraph I don't think is true, especially with physical stats.
There are plenty of examples of lower league players who are as fast or strong or determined as those in the upper leagues- they just aren't combined with certain other stats to make them a top level player.
I can kind of agree that some players in lower leagues can be close to a top level especially in terms of phisical attributes, but again there are not many of them. Also their other attributes should be way below average(below 10). If that hasnt been the case(like in FM), they would have had played in top leagues already as a backup or something and for very cheap. But they dont, though.
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I gotta say, there might be something fundamentally wrong with the whole players research. It seems like there is some misunderstanding of attributes themselves, thus players are given wrong attribute values. Attributes are absolute numbers in the game, meaning "10" is always 10" no matter the league level. "10" also means average on 1-20 scale. If our reference point is whole players database, then there is no way that players in top leagues(like EPL La Lige etc.) can have attributes values below 15.Though, If top leagues are our reference point, then lesser players are way too OP. How players from League 2 or any other lesser leagues can have attributes values higher than 10 then? It would mean that they could be at least average at the top level, which is obviously not true.
There is also a problem with the way ME weighs attrubutes. You put a CB with fairly low jumping reach(like Alaba) in the squad and you are done; you put fairly slow FB in the squad and you are done etc., while IRL you can easly get away with that.
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As I have been issued a warning and one of my posts got deleted, I would really like to apologise everyone that got offended by anything I wrote. Its always the case for me speaking english(Im much nicer in spanish or... german).
That being said, I completely dissagree with the way its been handeled therefore with politics of this forum and all that. So Im done.
Whats the point of writing anything here, when your post could get deleted cuz someone got offended or taged you as a spammer? I made my argument - valid or not - it was there. If you dissagree, then throw your argument at me, thats the way discussion goes, I think. Or maybe not.
That warning note should have been a regular reply within this thread.
Anyways, I withstand my statement(atbleast the core of it) regarding the state and direction this game been going for quite a while. Its not for me anymore. Thank God there are some other games and forums that I can enjoy myself with. FM-wise maybe 21 will be my lucky number.
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11 minutes ago, Tyburn said:
Dude, you can basically ask your ass man, coaches, scouts to do everything for you already!
I know that and I do so. Yet it doesnt change the fact that all that stuff affects simulation. You will still be bothered with tons of messages, screens etc. thatvyou dont care about. I just want to simulate from game to game with one click on continue button? Why I cant do so anymore? I cant holyday through either cuz then i might miss some nonsense player interactions wich gonna kill teams morale or whatever. It would be so much better if the sim stopped only for big injuries and transfer offers, like it used to. Yet it stops for anything and then force me through in-game social media screen. Give me a break.
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Just now, KUBI said:
Did you try FM Touch, because this version offers exactly what you want?
I did. Still too much nonsense for me. I dream of a day when I be able to choose which option/module(or whatever its called) I want to use in my gameplay. Like you dont like scouting? Just disable scouting; or maybe you do like press conferences, so enable it. Or maybe you want to be DoF and simulate through seasons in 30 minutes? Why not? I just cant understand why this stuff isnt in the game yet? Other sports management games, far inferior to FM, have had it for years. And its so much fun as you can play the game trully your way.
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53 minutes ago, Tyburn said:
Having played the series for over 20 years, believe me, this title has evolved incredibly.
As a player with almost 25 years of CM/FM experience I can tell that this statement is paradoxically true and false at the same time.
Obviously, progress in many aerias is evident, but there are also many things which "evolve backwards"(so to speak). Like press conferences, team talks, in-game social media(LOL), and all that clickfesty, repetetive nonsense, which doesent matter much(or at all), yet takes time even when delegated to your assistant(you still have to click through all those messages and screens). This actually killed my passion for this series. Yes, good match engine would be a lot of fun, but I just cant stand playing one season fo 2 weeks to 1 month, when in the past I could do than i two days(with the same amount of gameplay time per day). Thats just so bad. Perhaps SI shouldve invested their time in things that matter(training, tactics, team building, ME) way earlier.
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And one more thing. Discovering players actual attributes should take years of him playing at certain level of football. Can you really tell if a player is good after only few good games in some bush league? You cant and its always a crapshoot. Thousands of players every year are trafsered to a better teams this way and it very rarerly pans out.
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Just now, Welshace said:
Ah ok, so you aren't happy with the current model where scouts will say the player has pace between 10-15 but im not sure what exactly yet?
Actually, this is compeletly different thing. And its fine. I just want my scout, when compeleting his assigment(narrowing down that "between 10-15") to be compeletly wrong about his assesments. He might narrow it down to 12 but players actual absolute pace rating, which you could only see in editor, would be 9 - lets say. Of course, the better the scout, the more in line with actual ratings his assesment should be. But never perfect as you never know IRL.
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16 hours ago, Welshace said:
First point would be that the 1-20 stats you see aren't absolute.. it actually goes up in .1 increments... second point is that attribute masking is a thing.
So, you clearly dont understand the concept. Its not about scale, wether its 1-20, 1-100, with or without decimals or whatever, its about the fact that your scout cannot be wrong about absolute value of a given attribute. When player is fully scouted you know exactly whether his pace is 20, 18, 17.6, or whatever scale you used. I want my scout to be compeletly wrong. Eg. players X dribbling rating in editor is 10 but my inexperienced scout watched him destroing some amateurs in an exotic league and thought "this guy has at least 15 dribbling" or whatever. Then you buy this guy and after few games you realise that hes not that good at all.
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I still to this day cannot understand, why FM is so one-dimentional in that matter. I play a lot of OOTP games and they have that figured out quite while ago. Showing attributes as absolute numbers instead of weighted/adjusted to level of copetition scouting etc. Is just stupid. Whats the point of scouting when you already know what given player is like? Second - no talent randomness whatsoever. You never gonna see flameouts in this game and very rarely if ever some late bloomers. There is no fun in it anymore so I tend to hide the attributes completely. At least your scout can overestimate(but never under for some reason) potentian when it comes to star ratungs.
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My two cents in the topic.
Ive been playing FM series for over 20 years now and I can only tell that every ME shenanigans, that we've been through over the years, are the result of nonexistent defensive play. Im certan that SI can program accurate, inteligent offensive movement. that looks like real football and produces similar statistical outcomes(as we all have seen it here and there), but they are just simply unable to replicate defensive phase of the game to counter that offense, so if they left it in FM, we would see almost handball-like results.
Unfortunately, the problem is even deeper, cuz the whole ME core is lopsided this way. If you want to play "proper" defense, you have to put all your midfield in DM strata and all your strikers in CM strata. Otherwise, the gaps between formations are unrealistic. Also team movement as a defensive block is just horrendous. No teamwork whatsoever. No movement whatsoever. Real players are constantly "in check", looking for opposition runs, ball, teammates etc. In Fm, though, players are completely unaware of anything. Strikers can easily run in-between defenders and unless they get the ball, defenders dont give a crap about them. This stuff has been present in every FM since 2d introduction and Im afraid its never gonna be fixed.
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Both of them are complete strikers. Lukaku - on support, Martinez - on attack. Ive been using Conte-sque 3-5-2 for years. Funny and quite effective formation.
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13 minutes ago, Peter 04 said:
@tts0
I wholeheartedly agree! Great defenses irl move as a unit and make up for mistakes and tighten up very fluidly if necessary. They move towards the side where the ball is played because they know it takes time for the ball to be switched to the other side so they can temporally leave the other flank open.
What do you think, would it help to slow down the speed of the ball for long passes? Could it help to increase the frequency of midfielders filling up holes that defenders leave when they engage an opponent?
Idk if it has anything to do with ball speed but I dont mind more defensive-aware midfield. Yet I would like to see some sort of tactical awarness presented in the game. E.g. the gap between players cant be more than X yards, so when fullback is pressing hard, creating more space in between teammates, it triggers them to tighten it up and move towards that flank one by one, which obviously would create an ilusion that they move as a unit.
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One thing that really holds back ME for years is defensive movement as a unit, which seems nonexistent. Im pretty defensive-minded tactician(also youth coach irl) and I simply cant wrap my mind around some of these stuff in FM - especially defending the flanks and channels. You may see fullbacks pressing the wingers hard(which isnt a bad thing per se), while the whole team stays put. This creates humongous channel for the opossition players to slot in. Thats why 3 striker formation are so OP and 3 at the back pretty useless. But there is more of that. Ocasionally one of the CB gonna slot into DM strata to press, while his defensive partners stay put. Another huge gap created. IRL remaining 3 defenders tighten it up, forming some sort of back 3 in fromt of the aforementioned CB and wingers or central midfielders provides the cover in the wide areas. Thats not a rocket science. In fact, these are some basic defensive movements which FM lacks big time. With that in ME we would experience a whole new dimention of playing and enjoyng the game.
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*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
I would rather ask, what is that leftback doing? Why is he not comming inside to cover for CB who is stepping up? These are absolute football basics that are not in the game like never. There is zero team defending in this game. Just 11 players runnig around individually.