THOG
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Posts posted by THOG
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On 8/6/2016 at 08:42, roggiotis said:
is the ppm ''knocks ball past opponent '' good for a central defender ?
Given how reluctant they are to carry the ball forward when they're not even under pressure, I don't think a Central Defender would ever actually use it.
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13 hours ago, zigaliro said:
Does setting defensive line to higher(or lower) mean that the defense will be positioned higher up the pitch when your team have the ball? Or when your team dont have the ball? Or both?
It is a defensive phase/without-ball instruction, but with any instruction, effects in one phase of the game will knock on to the next.
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Anybody has another opinion?
With low Decisions, your team will be error prone in all phases of play, so I agree mentality doesn't matter much assuming your team's poor tactical intelligence is balanced out by other strengths. I would, however, consider playing a style that demands less of players' tactical decision-making and, if possible, use your most tactically intelligent players as playmakers.
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Can a player with attributes like Klaas Jan Huntelaar be successful playing as a lone striker with a role other than AF or Poacher? I'm considering selling him in the 1st window to bring in a more complete striker.
If you surround him with support, he doesn't need to be a great passer and can potentially get on the end of more give-and-go moves.
Wish my tactic was less reliant on the fullbacks. Any tips? http://i.imgur.com/Q08AFTH.pngUse support duties at MLR/AMLR. The movement of attack duty wingers is rather one-dimensional at the moment.
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So, if in my setup i have on the wings one Wb(a)+IF(s) what will this do to my players?
My Wb(a) already have default instructions to get further forward and cross more, so the exploit the flank instruction will have no affect?
The WB(A) should play slightly more aggressive and the team as a whole will try to get the ball out wide as often as possible.
And related with the rest of the players, manly the center midfielders, will they attempted to play wider?And finally, will this instruction affect the way the IF(s) plays? Will they stay wider?77
No to both.
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Don't you like the idea of creating a truly unbeatable tactic? I do. Just to get the feeling of "I beat the game!". To each his own I guess.
For me, the goal is to build a formidable team with complementary tactics. Plugging in a super tactic is like typing in a cheat code.
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I have this idea that a good enough tactic should be capable of beating everything and everyone,
The game is about managing players and their individual and collective strengths/weaknesses. Why would you want something that makes the players irrelevant? It would be like playing SimCity without buildings.
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The mentality bar is the exact same size for both roles. Is the graphic lying (wouldn't be the first time)?
In-game all appearances suggest that a SS is just an AM-A with some mandatory instructions you could use with an AM-A anyway.
Good spot. It may be a graphical glitch or it could indicate that the instructions have been glitched. The formation graphic is also supposed to indicate relative mentality (to position) and the SS was designed to operate on a higher mentality than a standard AM (so he'd make decisions more like a goal-scorer than a build-up player). It appears some other roles that are supposed to have mentality differences (and had them in earlier 16 builds) also just have the same setting as every other role on their duty, so it looks like something that should be raised with SI.
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The Shadow Striker has a slightly higher mentality than the AM-A meaning he will generally play more aggressively (starting runs earlier, shooting more often, etc.), but both will get into the box consistently and neither is necessarily more effective than the other.
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So would you say that role is still broken or at least, it doesn't work as it should? Oh, and nice edit
I don't think it's working like it should at all.
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1) If we set a player with the Roam From Position PI, and if in my team instruction i also have the Roam From Position TI set on, will this mean that the player will roam also during the build up phase?
Roaming is either on or off for an individual player, so the PI is probably just redundant. This is one area where the UI needs to give more information though.
2) If i set one player from my midfield, for example an MC(a) with the intruction to move into channels, will this make him drift more to the flanks, or he will look for the channels only in the centerIt means he'll move wider toward the outer edge of the middle 3/5ths of the pitch.
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Is there a guide for set pieces anywhere?
There's a brief overview of the basic principles here.
Do Half-Backs make Central Defenders split or just push forward with normal spacing?They appear to move slightly wider, but it's not a significant difference. The ME has struggled to get splitting DCs to narrow appropriately immediately after a change of possession, so you won't see them moving 40 yards apart and the HB doesn't drop off as the deepest player, preventing the three from being effective at quickly switching play.
Hello guys.I have a tactic which employ a Raumdeuter in AML and was thinking about buying Vietto or Ayoze for that role. However they both have "likes to beat offside trap" PPM and i highly doubt that they'd want to unlearn that move.
So a Raumdeuter with that PPM it's kinda pointless, right?
Not at all, this PPM and roaming can complement one another well. Trying to beat an offside trap doesn't mean just holding hands with the last defender. It just means he'll look to break into space when he can, including making runs from deep. If he's not lightning quick off the mark, giving him a few yards to accelerate before the pass is made can help him be more effective at attacking through passes.
That PPM is broken at the moment in my opinion. Usually it results in players being offside about 5 times a game/100+ a season with no advantages from it to balance it out.That's not necessarily a result of the PPM. Offsides are too high generally.
Oh my!
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...
The stickies at the top of the forum are a great resource. Start with wwfan's How to Play FM: A Twelve Step Guide and llama3's Pairs & Combinations. Those two are really all you need to play the game.
From there, rashidi1's Bust the Net and cleon's Building a Tactic provide demonstrations of how to design and implement specific tactics. Lines & Diamonds is a comprehensive overview of tactical theory and how it relates to different game mechanics in FM.
Some other recent threads worth a look:
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Close Down Less, Stay on Feet to some extent and a more defensive duty/mentality generally. Stick to Position is not a defensive instruction.
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To have more possession and chances against weaker opposition, are Short Passing and Retain Possession necessary? I find that without these, I am being put under pressure by weaker opposition, despite my attempts to press them. I have players who should be able to press well.
You don't necessarily need to play it short to dominate possession, especially if your opponent is playing a defensive or long passing style. In terms of pressing, one benefit of a direct style is that it will tend to get the ball ahead of your midfield, so when you lose possession, you'll be able to press and your defence won't be immediately exposed. By comparison, a possession style will naturally increase the risk of interceptions which typically allow an easier transition to counterattacks given that your opponent will have immediate control the ball, possibly behind several of your midfielders.
THOG: I've been reading your guide: If I want to compress, do I ask my team to "Push up" and "Play Narrow"? To consolidate do I ask my team to "Drop Deep and Narrow?Yes.
Hi THOG,Just wanted to ask how to setup a DM-CM-CM triple pivot as i wanted to lock the midfield and have my attacking patterns played in the wings.
Thanks in advance.
If the two MCs are sitting back, my immediate thinking would be that the DMC can be more of a pure defensive midfielder since he'll always have close support immediately ahead of him. The problem will be the space between the two MCs and the rest of the attack, especially if the ST is going to be in a role that keeps a reliable target in the box for your wing players, so I'd want those two players to excel with their Vision, Passing and Technique, possibly Dribbling if you choose to make one or both a shuttling Roaming Playmaker who can carry the ball into said gap when needed.
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Alternative format of the same question: a 442 with 3(a)-4(s)-3(d) roles work considerably better on a standard mentality than on defense/attack mentality. Why does this happen
I wouldn't say this is necessarily and always the case, but the idea is that if you get the ball forward with more urgency, you need options moving up the pitch with more urgency or your ST will end up running into walls where they have no choice but to take a pop from distance. For defensive, if you're looking to just lock down your own half, you don't want to expose space through which an opponent can quickly move the ball.
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What is the prevalent logic behind the duty distribution mechanism?
Duty mainly affects in-possession positioning and attacking movement, moreso than mentality. The most basic definition of defensive football is that it's a style where the team is concerned with keeping its defensive shape, even when it attacks (primarily as a means of preventing counterattacks). Similarly, the most basic definition of attacking football is that it's a style where the team is happy to encourage mobility across all positions and keep numbers forward in attacking positions even when the team is forced onto the backfoot. Attacking football, then, exhibits less concern with being hit by counterattacks, and to some extent, it may even invite counterattacks since encouraging an opponent to transition quickly will typically see them lose the ball more quickly. Within the AI's tactical logic, a team that increases mentality becomes less concerned with defensive shape and just throws more numbers in the attacking third with greater urgency, and a team that decreases mentality becomes increasingly concerned with defensive shape and typically locks down the defence and midfield in two rigid lines. Since the drop in mentality also sees a reduction of urgency in initiating the attacking phase, this often results in the defensive AI trying to hold onto the ball deep as much as it can.
Now, the interpretative issue here is that shape is ultimately controlled more via duty than mentality. Though mentality does affect certain baseline settings, these can be modified via TIs to the point where its most noticeable effect is the urgency of build up play. This is why, wwfan for example, found that using very attacking TIs and duty distribution combined with a lower mentality more accurately produced the more patient yet quite attacking style of some top professional sides that had players with sufficient technical skill and vision to break down defences without having to rely on urgent transitions and bombarding the box with crosses.
The latter approach isn't inherently wrong or illogical, it just reflects that the basic AI logic doesn't encompass every tactical philosophy, and since the AI is tuned to fight the AI with the AI's attacking being designed to counter the AI's defensive and vice-versa, this means users who step outside that framework can potentially find tactical advantages that work to their benefit.
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If you're using two MCs as ball winners, the DM doesn't need to be an exceptional defender (take Pirlo at Juventus as an example). That's not to say it will necessarily work great but a deep creative player behind two workmanlike MCs is one way to set up this kind of squad.
You don't need a DM for a pressing style, but if you don't use one and expect both MCs to close down aggressively. you'll want aggressive DCs who can step out and make the tackle if they're caught out of position.
Can you press high with your defence generally? No way to know for sure unless you test it out.
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My best players, according to my Ass. Man. are 2 BWM-s, 4 stars each. I'm Celtic, BTW. I have several (3-4)decent playmaker types, but the problem to creating a midfield lies in the fact that I am short on holding mids with good marking or anticipation. Is there any logical reason to avoid having 2 identical roles in the team? BWM (D), for example. 2 of my centre forwards are high on Aggression, so I know they could pester the opposition defense. Wingers: not a chance.
Logically/necessarily, no, but your concern is going to be a potential lack of creativity from those players. But if you're just looking for them to win the ball and play it forward to the wingers/ST, you don't need them to be brilliant playmakers. As far as the two BWM-Ds go, the potential issue there is that their initial position when you lose the ball is going to be quite deep, so they might not be able to apply pressure quickly and will tend to get dragged out of shape when they do. Throwing an idea out there, I'd consider using two aggressive support MCs ahead of a DMC, setting them up to harry the opposition with the DMC providing cover behind.
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Not sure, sounds like a fun challenge. The first thing I'd try is to set up a tactic based around more specialised roles in a balanced/default-setting style and see if you can get the best out of each player that way. Ball-winning MCs (not necessarily BWMs... you can always just increase closing down individually via PIs) combined with fast wingers, ideally, should combine well in a counterattacking setup.
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I've been playing Lower Leagues. And I'd like to know if there are any "tactical contingencies" I should have in mind when your whole team... well... sucks!
I mean, I've read on some sites giving LLM tips that it's probably best off to play an attacking style after all, and play direct, because a) the players don't have the skills to play a short-passing game and b) the pitch conditions often don't even allow "beautiful football" to be played in an effective way.Are there any other tips you can give me to apply what I've learned in "Lines and Diamonds" to low-calibre teams?
Thanks, Merry Christmas btw
On the defensive end, you typically want to base your defence on pressure, aggression, physicality and work rate. With poor pitch conditions and overall technical quality, there's more to be gained from prompting mistakes and poor decisions than keeping shape and worrying about them playing through you with passing combinations. That being the case, poor personalities and lazy players are the real worry for me in LLM. Even if a player has relatively good attributes, if he's switching off at the wrong times or impossible to motivate, you're better off with a mediocre player will consistently run for you.
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Thank you very much, i really need to study a bit because it's the first time in 15 years that i'm struggling to set up a good tactic, it's like much is changed and much is counter-intuitive, so i've tocrethink many of the previous ideas...moreover the trend is that i'm struggling against weaker teams while i'm doing well against stronger teams (same tactics)...anyone experienced the same? Any idea about that?
This thread is more about linking up FM with real world tactical thought, providing a reference for different concepts (what they do, why they do it, pros/cons) and helping people who want to experiment get the most out of the TC. If you're just struggling to get off the ground, it can be overwhelming, so I'd suggest starting with llama's Pairs & Combinations thread.
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An AM-A will still attack the box. AMs in general seem more inclined to get into the area in 16.
For TIs, you want runs from midfield and lots of unpredictable movement. The TIs you mention are all good shouts. Very Fluid is probably the best team shape given you want the ST operating in a creative capacity. The team shape setting is now more drastic, so much so that STs on Structured/Highly Structured can be a bit too cavalier on the ball relative to the rest of the team, even if you give them a creative role. You might add roam from positions as well, though you'll already get that to some extent from the F9 and Raumdeuter.
The system itself looks like it's going to be very open and the two AMs aren't going to give you much flank protection. In the Portuguese league, you should be fine playing a more attacking system, but you'll risk getting blown away in Europe and your right flank is going to be vulnerable. You'll also find that a lot will depend on the WB-S as he's going to be your main source of width and will be frequently sought out as an outlet when things get crowded down the middle, and with your overall shape being quite narrow, that will go double if you come up against a narrow formation. You'll also want to keep an eye on whether the CM-A is crowding out your F9 and Raumdeuter. He might be more useful dropped into a support role, perhaps as a B2B mid. Not necessarily, but keep an eye on him.
The other thing I'd mention is that any high tempo technical style takes time to get right. You not only need fluid tactical familiarity but the team needs to have gelled as well.
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I mean, I've read on some sites giving LLM tips that it's probably best off to play an attacking style after all, and play direct, because a) the players don't have the skills to play a short-passing game and b) the pitch conditions often don't even allow "beautiful football" to be played in an effective way.
Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Aside from some differences in defensive behaviour, AMLR and MLR are basically coded as the same position and aren't really intended to be used together on the same flank.