Snootch

April 1, 2022

With the constant adapting of mentality and/or instructions do you see issues with how hard the tactical familiarity is hit?

March 31, 2022

55 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

What sort of football do you want to play then? I just assumed you'd have no TI's for your tactic before I had a look but you've got a few ticked so you've set your team a certain style

I mean, tactic wise, there's nothing wrong with that and you're performing well, I think it's just a long term project of bringing in players that fit your idea, create a club DNA where every player you buy or develop has Aggression, Work Rate, Team Work (or whatever you want) above a certain attribute

I guess creative possession? I don't want us to be midtable for chances created. If the squad has anything going for it it is attacking talent and technical ability matched with pace. I would like to emphasize that while attempting to cover its defensive deficiencies as much as I can. Instead I seem to have killed its attacking nous but made it reasonably solid.

March 31, 2022

In need of some tactical help.

Preamble: 3rd season with Leverkusen, still no trophies. Currently in 2nd place but the xG table would more realistically have us in 4th. We have only the 6th best attack and the 5th best defence. Warning signs are all around. We are not playing the football I want and I fear my team has no identity and it's only being held together by strong morale and team cohesion. Originally my team had the counter-press on with my front line pressing the opposition backline, but we were getting killed by long balls over the top and the analyst report showed we practically never won the ball in the opposition half due to our lack of a pressing DNA.

The tactic.

Schick and Lucca are my best players/goalscorers by far but I can't accommodate them both, so I've had to move Schick out onto the IF role where he has excelled. That's kept Harvey Elliott (loan) and Paulinho out of the mix for the time being.

The idea behind my tactic is that this team has no underlying attributes for press/counter-press. They have bang average teamwork (10th in Bundesliga) and aggression (10th). The backline is technical and fairly pacy, hence the high line and offside trap. The idea is to try to control possession and otherwise stay rather compact out of possession to compensate for the lack of ability to press. Instead we are 2nd only to Bayern Munich for average possession, but we are 11th in the bundesliga for chances created.

I seem to have hurt the team's creativity despite our high possession numbers although we are certainly more defensively solid than year's past, without being exceptional. It is a highly technical squad which led me to believe that despite the average teamwork, they would be best suited to a possession game but now it looks to me like we are not ready for the next step of challenging meaningfully for a title. Any suggestions would be welcome.

March 31, 2022

Hope it's okay to post this in this thread, I personally didn't think it warranted its own:

In need of some tactical help.

Preamble: 3rd season with Leverkusen, still no trophies. Currently in 2nd place but the xG table would more realistically have us in 4th. We have only the 6th best attack and the 5th best defence. Warning signs are all around. We are not playing the football I want and I fear my team has no identity and it's only being held together by strong morale and team cohesion.

The tactic.

Schick and Lucca are my best players/goalscorers by far but I can't accommodate them both, so I've had to move Schick out onto the IF role where he has excelled. That's kept Harvey Elliott (loan) and Paulinho out of the mix for the time being.

The idea behind my tactic is that this team has no underlying attributes for press/counter-press. They have bang average teamwork and workrate. The backline is technical and fairly pacy, hence the high line and offside trap. The idea is to try to control possession and otherwise stay rather compact.

Instead, I seem to have hurt the team's creativity despite our high possession numbers although we are certainly more defensively solid than year's past, without being exceptional.

EDIT: Just to add to this, we are 2nd only to Bayern Munich for average possession, but we are 11th in the bundesliga for chances created.

March 10, 2022

Had a decent first season as Bayer Leverkusen, finishing 3rd with 21 wins, 9 draws, 4 losses, 63 goals for and 32 against. Here is the tactic:

The basic idea here being we generally try to play positively, look for overloads with Demirbay arriving into the box late, use a poacher to occupy the two defenders, and work hard to win the ball back.

PIs:
IF+W Tackle harder + Mark tighter
CM(a) More direct passes, take more risks, dribble less

What hasn't worked:

Paulinho W(l) and Diaby IF(r). No goal or assist production from either. As you can see from the analysis, nearly all goals come through the center and they primarily came through Schick who scored 25+ goals on the season and Demirbay being the primary creator. As we evolve into the next season and go into the Champions League, I think it's crucial to turn both wide players into creators/goalscorers as they are too talented and pacy not to exploit weaker opposition. I want to lessen my dependence on the poacher role to score. As an aside, we are completely incompetent against any formation with 5 at the back and I could use some suggestion against countering that as well.

In general, we do not have the most potent attack nor the most solid defence, and I would like to prepare this team for the next season and its slight increase in reputation going forward. Any suggestions welcome.

December 13, 2020

17 hours ago, denen123 said:

You strayed too much from what I thought was a very good 4-3-3, in terms of shape. When it comes to creating "consistency " in attack, your build-up play is most important (how you bring the ball out and how it ends up in the final third). Might come off as vague, as it can change, depending on a lot of factors, but if you notice patterns of play right from build up, you know how you play.

My issue with the tactic(shape wise) would first have been your left CM. He will occasionally be close to your CDM/DM, in build up phases, but often be higher up. This forces your team to look for too many alternatives in build up phases. In real life, managers often change according to games. If teams press you out, then go long. If they don't, then going short. Some managers(i.e I know we are bored of it, now, but yeah PEP.. lmao... he builds it up consistently with the CB's and a DM that drops deep to create a 3rd option. The fullbacks are wide enough if the keeper wishes to kick it wide and safe) go for something with more variety. However, players have to be positioned in the right spaces in order to be available, at all times.

I will also take out all your "out of possesion instructions" and keep "offside trap", higher LOE and Higher Defensive line. Distribute to fullbacks + play out of defence brings your team closer and helps create multiple options in build up phases. Leave the width on default.

All this long talk was to convince you that a HBde and a Dlpsu would have been very ideal. Then your ST as CFsu is a good role. Problem is it is a very demanding role. It is deep, but unlike a DLF, it demands a dribbler that carries it from deep to front. I, personally, have found roles like these to be more effective with Wingers/Attacking Midfielders that have decent technique & finishing. Essentially Leon Bailey would execute this role to the fullest(bar heading. But that is the sacrifice). If it is too much, then just use the ST for a more deeper hold up role(DLFatt or PFatt).

So I only changed a role. LCM. I also, changed players.

Lastly, the out of possesion instructions are just a lot. You can tell ST, RW, LW, LCM & RCM to "close down more"(split block). ST to mark specific position = CD & RCM to mark specific position = DM(to reduce some level of passivity in the press).

Then Mentality changes for Home and Away matches. Home games I start on the front foot. "ATTACKING MENTALITY". Away games I use the "BALANCED" one. All of it is risk taking, essentially. I want to force the breakdowns on teams in Home games , but in away games I am aware of the fact that they will come to play so I reduce the risk by merely toggling the mentality bar to "balanced". Passing and tempo reduces, so we are more Conservative with the ball, inviting our "impatient" yet "eager" opponents and then we open them up.

You can also dismiss all I wrote(which is boring and not my best English) and just study on how to create build-ups in 4-3-3 by virtue of player proximity.

Just wanted to follow up and say wow - this was an incredibly eye opening post. The beauty is in its the simplicity of the approach. Here's a half of football I was particularly pleased with following your logic:

The flexibility and variability of mentality is what particularly opened my eyes. Rather than stubbornly imposing a rigid play style with multiple out of and in possession instructions, I can encourage the play I want with balanced duties, a handful of instructions, and otherwise control it with mentality. Currently my only in possession instruction is to play it out back, transition is to distribute to CBs and FBs and counter press, and higher DL+LOE w/ offside trap.

Ticking it down to cautious and you notice the shorter passing, slower tempo, generally calculated approach to the game. Attacking lets them express themselves and go full throttle. A couple of playmaker roles w/ the high line and playing out defence and it can be a possession tactic (71% !!!) without much shorter passing + work ball into box + low crosses. Wow. I feel like I've been playing FM wrong for the past 10 years.

December 9, 2020

1 minute ago, ozilthegunner said:

A few other threads (including my own) have popped up just recently all with a focus on a 4-3-3 and largely the same preferred playing style. So, there is some good stuff in the other threads you may find valuable.

As far as your specific CM/Winger problem: Does your winger have the PPM to cut inside from the right? (or either flank) Are you giving him PIs to do so? Perhaps your CWB on the right is encouraging it a bit (so he has space). But, regardless, something is causing your winger to not keep his width.

As an alternative, especially if the player does have a PPM to cut in, or you do actually desire that, is to switch the CM(a) to a MEZ(a) and the W(s) to an IW(s). I had already been playing with an IW(s) on my right side, and was encouraged to swap my CMs so that the Mez was on the same side (and on attack rather than support). I haven't got a full chance to test it out yet, but with the MEZ being told to 'stay wide' and the IW coming inside, there should be less issue of them being on each other

I also think you could do with an attack duty in your front 3... should help with penetration which is probably part of your problem. If you leave the right sided CM on attack, I'd put either the center striker on attack (I have found a CF(a) works quite well in this general setup) or the left-sided inverted winger (or both). I realize you have the CWB on attack on the left, which you may need to change, but I think you definitely want more oomph somewhere in the front 3.

Must have missed those threads, I'll try to take a look. If you think there's any particularly valuable nugget of info in them, feel free to send my way!

As for the PPMs, I should have mentioned: Bellarabi only has a PPM to place finishes. Maybe if I change it to CM(s) + add PI of Get Further Forward? Or would that still be too conservative given my attacking problems? Will definitely change the CF to an attack duty.

December 9, 2020

It's pre-season in my first season with Bayer Leverkusen. Below is my base tactic:

Key (intended) Philosophies:

- Keep plenty of possession
- Win the ball back quickly when we lose it
- Stretch defensive opposition as wide as possible

Tweaks When Playing Weaker opposition:

- Lower the line of engagement to Standard/Low/Lowest LOE + switch on Counter (in an attempt to invite the parked bus forward)

Tweaks When Playing Stronger Opposition:

- Place greater emphasis on possession: Work ball into box, lower tempo

Problems:

- Practically no goals scored from open play in pre-season

- Poor chance creation

- CM(a) intended to add a deep runner to support attacks, is too often getting into the way of the RW as seen here:

Average Position With Ball:

Avg position without ball:

I'm looking for suggestions as to how I can improve this team's shape and chance creation.

December 6, 2020

Is anyone seeing quite a few missed penalties? Across 4 different teams and saves, I would venture to guess about roughly a 75% miss rate on the user side. I basically expect them to be saved when given at this point. (small sample size admittedly)

December 3, 2020

15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

You have posted screenshots of 2 tactics in the meantime - a 4231 and a 4411. So which one is currently in use?

Unfortunately whether through my tactical imbalances or just a morale too far gone, we couldn't dig out any wins and I got the sack. However, I've started a new save with Crystal Palace with the idea that I might approach the game similarly but with slightly better players so I can see whether I'm getting my tactics completely wrong, or whether it's just the quality of the squad. Hopefully it's alright to share in here since I'm working on mostly the same concepts:

Average positions:

The core ideas being:

- Keep it simple

- Out of possession, sit in a deep compact block and invite pressure, encouraging my two hard-working, aggressive DMs to protect the backline, win the ball back, and spring a counter.

- Encourage the front four to run with the ball often, and give them freedom to roam for quality attacking movement.

- Have Eze (AP) drop into midfield to link the gaps between DM and AM and also look for our balls into our wide players.

Outstanding questions:

- What can I do to get the striker more involved? In preseason + opening day in the PL, this position is the one to have consistently struggled.

- Should I encourage the players to pass into space? Or is that an unnecessary risk coupled with a Positive mentality?

- When I don't have a fit AM, what should I morph this formation into to encourage the same type of football? The rest of my Eze backups are CMs, at best DLPs, and not very forward inclined. Can I just move the AM into a CM slot and expect similar play?

I will say that I was very pleased against Leicester City that again and again we caught them on the counter, with Zaha running on the ball for fun and causing all sorts of havoc. So that core piece seems to be working fine...for now.

December 3, 2020

Could someone explain defensive width for me? As in the key differences between force opposition inside or outside? I understand that by the label they're rather self-explanatory, but I don't fully get it.

Is it as simple as formations with multiple wide players, all else being equal, should like to force opposition outside where they have numbers and vice versa?

December 2, 2020

4 hours ago, Tsuru said:

I had the same problem playing in Portugal and my team didn´t look like to have any positive points to focus on my tactics. So I decided to hear my assistant and he advised me to play on a 4-4-2 Wing Play. We were playing well but were scoring goals from counter attacks instead of crossing and "aerial game", and then I figured it out why: our best players are the strikers, which are quick and driblle well, so counter works better than wing play. I changed to counter and the team is playing very well now. If I had looked at the two best players and used their main force since the beggnining, the team could have done even better. Now I changed to a 4-4-1-1 because the squad changed and the two best players now are a striker and a Shadow Striker.

A friend of mine was facing some difficulties in Brazil and I looked at his squad, his three best players were on the midfield, which gives him a 4-1-2-3 (4-1-4-1 DM wide). He is not a top team on the division, so I suggested him to play on the counter using a template suggested by Experienced Defender. His team was on the lower bottom and now is at the top of the table.

I really think that looking at your two/three best players and trying to figure it out what they do best is a good starting point. Than you can look at your team´s expectations - fight against relegation? Mid table? - and set a coherent strategy. If you are not the better one, maybe playing on a basic, simple system is better than trying to be so aggresive and counter pressing on a 4-2-3-1 (which is very, very demanding).

It´s just another way of seeing things, maybe it can help you as it did with me.

Thank you for this! That has caused me a little rethink of the above:

The thinking here being that it has a more bottom-heavy formation to look to spring counter attacks from, but still keeps the best players in their ideal roles. Does this look like a reasonable counter attacking setup?

December 2, 2020

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, that's all the more reason to avoid technically and mentally demanding instructions such as play out of defence and - especially - work ball into box. Keeping it simple is the best recipe.

Post a screenshot of that tactic as you envision it, because I need to see the whole picture (rather than just a couple of elements).

This is the baseline I'm working with now. This is mostly borne out of playing to my individual players' strengths as much as possible and play them in their preferred roles (or as close to while keeping a shape). I'd like to encourage my centerbacks to get on the ball as they're quite technically able, and I want the fullbacks to be able to support the exploitation of the flanks with overlaps. The high defensive line + low line of engagement is my attempt to ensure the team stays compact as I'd like to make up for our lack of ability by keeping the team compact and making sure 11 men get behind the ball.

It feels weird to have so few instructions beyond that, and perhaps there is too much movement out of the two CM roles (?) but I'm open to keeping it simple and taking on suggestions.

EDIT: screenshot failed to include overlap right.

December 2, 2020

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Short passing + play out of defence + work ball into box are very possession-oriented instructions, especially under a mentality like Balanced. Is that a style of play you want to implement? And if it is, are you sure that Villa is the right kind of team?

Then at the same time, you are using the lower Line of engagement out of possession, which runs counter to your possession-heavy in-possession TIs. Therefore, we have already discovered one obvious contradiction in your tactic that can explain at least one of potential reasons as to why you are struggling at the moment.

Roles and duties look so-so. They also need some tweaking IMHO, but let's first find out what's your idea in terms of the playing style.

Hey there mate. Been reading your posts for what feels like years now so feels a bit surreal to be getting your help directly, but it’s much appreciated!

I have chopped and changed loads since this game and we’re unfortunately winless in 12 as the disjointedness in managerial approach is absolutely translating to the pitch. I think, unfortunately, I have no idea how I ought to get this lot to play. As I attempted to put into words above, I’ve never managed a team that is so mediocre relative to the competition (18th best on average) and so it feels like my usual identification of strengths is accomplishing nothing.

We aren’t particularly quick, hardworking, disciplined, or technical. What does that leave?

I don’t think the squad is strong enough to rely on defending. At a guess, I might say that the team has strength on the flanks between Grealish, Trezeguet, Traore, and El Ghazi with reasonable ability from the fullbacks.

That is to say, I feel at a loss for how to play to this squads strengths. I don’t want to invite pressure too passively because we don’t have the concentration levels to keep anyone out (and we conceded boat loads from shots outside the box when I tried).

Perhaps something direct, focused on the flanks+overlaps (wide overloads) with low crossing for our quick strikers, and maybe a Barkley/Grealish AM in the hole to mop up? Not sure if that sounds like anything particularly worth writing home about.

December 1, 2020

I am struggling massively in FM21 having started the first 5 matches of the season completely winless with Aston Villa. They are a worse squad than I am used to managing and as such I cannot for the life of me figure out what I would like to achieve with them, and it shows on the pitch with repeatedly disjointed, lifeless performances.

What I know:

The team is 19th for Decisions and Work Rate, and 17th for tackling
- This would lead me to believe they are ill-suited to a pressing game
The team has average flair and vision
The midfield has reasonable passing, vision, and long shot ability
There are no "natural" strikers in the squad
There is an abundance of decent wide players
Jack Grealish and Ross Barkley are by a distance the best players available

On the one hand, what I know about my team would lead me to believe I ought to avoid a pressing, high intensity tactic because they have neither the work rate, tackling, nor aggression to achieve it. On the other hand, with their low owrk rate and decision making, I don't know if they have the discipline or concentration for sitting back and defending for long stretches of time.

My original approach was to create a 4-4-1-1 that emphasized regrouping, soaking up pressure, and running with the ball long distances in an attempt to cause damage on the counter. This has led me to my winless start with only two goals scored from open play.

My (new) theory:

- Approach with a Brendan Rodgers at Swansea-esque approach that emphasizes controlling possession as a means of defending.
- Find a way to create openings for my wide players as that is where most of my team's attacking quality lies.

Starting template:

The idea here being that we seek to control possession similar to the default 4-2-3-1 setup, with overlaps occurring on either flank to create overloads for the wide players and our AP staying in the hole finding those openings. If we lose the ball we attempt to counter-press, and failing that we retreat into our compact block to ensure we have numbers behind the ball.

Would anyone be able to critique this setup / suggest improvements? Does my re-think make any sense? Or should I continue to focus on listening to my assman and making a direct counter attack work? If so, how?

December 4, 2019

7 hours ago, rockpie said:

Definitely focus on your own team more than anything else. You still want to dictate the style of play.

I rarely, almost never, completely move away from the core principles I want from my team.

But, in FM20 so far at least, the way I'm enjoying the game and finding the most success is by making small adjustments before and during matches to account for each opposition.

90% of things stay the same, but a little tweak here & there can make a difference.

Question related to this: I'm playing as Leverkusen employing a 4-3-3 Positive Gegenpress (mostly in line with the preset). There are times where the high defensive line looks vulnerable to balls in over the top and behind. However, dropping this line down negatively impacts our core philosophy of pressing high up the pitch. It would appear that in this case, the minor tweak that could solidify us would also adversely affect the game we want to play. Naturally we can't control everything; how do you strike a balance between reacting to trouble when it may take you away from your style?

December 1, 2019

Does anybody have any thoughts as to how much in-match condition rating affects performance? When I see low 70% to below, I start to get an itchy substitution trigger finger, regardless of well the player is playing. Is this foolish? Does concentration/composure/leadership/determination/current performance mean more than a 68% condition in the last 15 minutes?

November 29, 2019

Had an odd one as Leceister vs Newcastle. Tielemans completed 204 passes (which would be the most of all time I believe) in the match, and James Maddison 137. Seems a bit high? Deep lying playmakers seem to recycle passes a lot. Small sample size and all that.

April 16, 2019

I've placed numerous adverts for coaching staff but I'm unable to view any applicants. Where does one find them?

March 29, 2019

Does changing mentality only, all other things remaining the same, adjust the team's play significantly?

Example:
- Default tactic with positive mentality, higher defensive line, higher line of engagement, no particular in possession instructions

If I change it to cautious without changing any TIs or PIs/roles, can I expect my 'higher' defensive lines to drop somewhat in accordance with cautious? While still being high relative to cautious. Will passing length shorten and temp decrease?

Just trying to wrap my head around what happens by messing around with team mentality.

November 6, 2018

Are people having an issue with the 'Clear Cut Chances' & 'Half Chances' metric in the Match Stats? In roughly ~6 games with Leeds so far I don't think there have ever been more than 1 CCC per team, if that.

Is it my tactics, is the metric unreliable in terms of what it deems as a CCC, or is it the ME? Just want to put my mind at ease.

March 8, 2015

I have a player out on loan with a clause in that he can be recalled from loan. This option is not showing anywhere and I'm incredibly confused. Is this a possible bug, or is there some other explanation?

Serie A, if it makes a difference.

March 4, 2015

1. Is there a way to train up a player's aggression?

2. All other things being equal: when faced with a tricky AMC who thrives in the space between midfield and defence and makes his team tick, would you be better served by pushing up the defence to keep it closer to the midfield and leave the area congested, or rather to drop deeper and not allow him to make any passes in behind? What should one look at to make such a decision, ideally?

November 7, 2014

If you keep playing a player in an unfamiliar position will he progressively learn it? Or do you have to set new position in training?

November 4, 2014

How does one identify the weak-willed players on the opposition and target them as the 'weakest-link'? I'm terrible at the mind games in the press and would like to start getting an advantage from there.

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