Time_Consumer
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Posts posted by Time_Consumer
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Am 21.11.2022 um 10:53 schrieb WhyMe:
I am only playing the demo at the moment, but I thought I'd add this tactic to the discussion. Results wise it has been excellent for me, though I had to change to an alternative against Newcastle as for some reason their system just shut me down completely. I am only playing a tactic test game at the moment, but have been pleasantly surprised by results from this even when I played a second 11 in the Europa.
The PIs are: roam from position for Jesus, stay wider on Odegaard and White and get further forward on White. The White role is tricky to replicate so this was a compromise for effectiveness.
The main thing that doesn't quite replicate Arteta's play is the pressing in the opposition third in particular is nowhere near as aggressive as it is ILR, despite this the defence has actually been pretty solid (conceding 8 in 11 PL games with 5 clean sheets).
The slightly weird thing is that Jesus has scored 13 times in 10 starts and 1 sub appearance and only 1 assist, despite being a PF-s the vast majority of the time (CF-s occasionally) and Saka and Odegaard have more assists than goals as a result of this, but both are playing well and making plenty of goal contributions so I'm not complaining. Martinelli hasn't been too productive so far (3 goals in 8 starts and 3 sub) but has spent time out injured.
I would like to try Saka as IW-a with a stay wider PI, but this system has worked so well I didn't want to mess with it.
If anyone has any thoughts on how to get the pressing more like Arteta's then that would be most welcome or any discussion points or potential improvements (either to improve the replication or the effectiveness)
Solid approach I think. What's your thought process behind giving White the stay wider instruction? I had a go for a couple of matches with your tactic, pretty good so far. Some defensive shenanigans that look more like an ME flaw rather than the tactic's fault. I dropped stay wider for White, it looked pretty good in terms of triangles with Saka and Ödegaard. I added stay wider for Martinelli, because I feel the formation and roles lack a bit of width on the left side. To be honest, I don't see a huge difference here. Thinking about dropping Martinellis duty to support - in theory, he should still be a goal threat but a bit more involved? I find the in game descriptions a bit misleading, also the standard PIs that give the attack duty "take more risks", although this is supposed to be a passing instruction. IF(s) has "vison" as a favoured attribute, IF(a) hasn't, so in my book it should be the other way around. That's a pet peeve I had for many FM iterations now....
How's the IWB(s) doing for you? I feel this role is just another body in midfield and doesn't do a lot. I also don't like the roam from position PI very much. I might tinke with FB(s) sit narrower, cut inside, take more risks or something similar.
Also, PF(s) feels super weird as a role for Jesus, but it looks good for now. Heavily involved in the pressing, dropping deep, going to the wings through the added roaming instruction, still scores okay.
Thanks anyway for posting your approach here, as said, very good base to tinker on.0 -
vor 12 Minuten schrieb ryandormer:
Totally agree with you, it isn't easy to put that squad together in an overly coherent way.
Pepe's PPMs are a nightmare, and I'm not sure they're accurate. I haven't seen him bomb down the right flank often for Arsenal, he always seems to cut inside. I haven't been able to get him to perform consistently. I'm trying to get him to un-learn the winger trait, in the hope that he becomes a good IWs or IFs. If so, then Bellerin on attack will work. I really want this to work, because Saka should grow into this role really well in a few years (if I can make it past December without getting sacked).
Pepe is not creative and sucks at crossing, so - apart from this on ppm - he's a born IFa. But do you really wanna have Auba and Pepe in the same role? For years on here I read it's a dumb idea, but actually I find it working quite alright. I had some decent success with two attacking IFs, a CFs up front and two supporting mezzalas in front of a DLPd; wingbacks on support. I have a soft spot for symmetric formations, so went with it.
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Time_Consumer:
Look at Pepés PPMs, he's basically a "wrong footed winger". Should work just fine in AMR as winger.
Citing myself here, Arsenal has a very disbalanced squad though. If I used Pepe as an attacking winger, what can I do with Bellerin? You basically want him attacking as well. Pepes scoring abilities are a bit wasted with a support duty I feel. But I guess you have to compromise somewhere.
Also, what are you gonna do with Saka? This squad is not an easy task.0 -
vor 17 Stunden schrieb ryandormer:
Thanks, really appreciate the advice, again. A winger would probably give us more width, but with the players I have it'll have to be IFa and see how it works.
Look at Pepés PPMs, he's basically a "wrong footed winger". Should work just fine in AMR as winger.
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While waiting for the next ME patch, I played a pretty entertaining season with United despite the weitd stuff happening on pitch. Went wo a 442.
De Gea (DKd)
Wan Bissaka (FBs) - Maguire (BPDd) - Lindelöf (BPDc) - Shaw (WBs)
James (Wa) - Pogba (BBM) - McTominay (BWMd) - Lingard (IWs)
Martial (CFs/F9) - Rashford (PFa) (both instructed to swap positions and roam from position)
Won the Europa League and made 2nd in the PL. Was leading the table for quite a chunk of the season, but pulled an Arsenal and bottled it despite the easiest run in of all contenders. So Liverpool won the league with one point, City 3rd, Arsenal 4th.
Bought Ajer (love this dude) and Ruben Dias in winter, as soon as i qualified for the CL i bought CVhilwell and Sancho for the summer. Tottenham just became 8th, Eriksen left for PSG, Kane will probably go to City and Alli is unsettled – I want him, because he's super versatile and will have a place in this squad. I have no funds left tho. Meanwhile, PSG sniffed around Pogba. He was my best player when it comes to ratings and he wants to leave. I overpaced though and PSG pulled out because they didn't wanna pay 200 millions... now Pogba is unhappy. Real still sniffing around though. Usually in FM, when things don't pan out players will give peace at some point. So whenever Real is ready to shill out enough cash, I am happy to pull the trigger on Dele and Tonali, but I also happily keep Pogba.
Squad as of now in Summer 20 (I listed played twice or more if they are regular options in different postitions):
GK:
De Gea, Henderson, some Italian Newgen wonderkid
FBr:
Wan Bissaka, Lindelöf, Clyne (free agent, squad role is "emergency backup" as usualy Lindelöf is first choice as second RB), Williams
CD:
Maguire, Ruben Dias, Lindelöf, Ajer, Tuanzebe, English youngster whose name I forgot
FBl:
Chilwell, Shaw, Williams
RM:
Sancho, Dalot (retraining him as winger), James (was one of my best players, but he has no further ceiling and both Dalot and Sancho have the way better attributes)
BBM:
Pogba, Ajer
BWM:
McTominay, Tuanzebe (retraining him), Ajer
LM:
Lingard (unpopular, but he had a HUGE season), Gomes, Sancho, Andreas (he's supposed to be sold though)
ST:
Martial, Rashford, Greenwod
As I said, woul love to get in Dele Alli as an allrounder similar to Ajer but offensive. Could easily play ST, BBM vs smaller teams, LM in my system.
Loving this save so far.
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I'm really struggling to get anything out of this squad, I just don't know what to do with the players. Some weird ones. After all these years, I'm still struggling with tactic so much.
Right now: 4-2-3-1 wide
SK(s)
FB(a) - BPD(d) -BPD(d) - WB(s)
BBM - CM(d)
W(s) - AM(s) - AP(a)
PF(a)
Why Muniain as AP? Why Aritz as pressing forward? I have actually no idea and am just out of other ideas.I play balanced with not a lot of TIs - play out of defence and work ball into box, counterpress and counter, higher line, higher engagement, more urgent.
It's just super bland football and nothing ever happens.0 -
vor 1 Minute schrieb SD:
BWM(D) is way too one-dimensional in my view. If you must use a defend duty, a DLP(D) partners perfectly with a BBM.
I mean, "must". I have almost always used one in a 4-2-3-1. An idea would be to try the BWM(s), which also is a role i hardly ever used. Or even CM(d) instead of BWM? It remains "holding" but gets rid of all those crippling other PIs. Here's to 25 years of football managing games and still enough stuff to learn... I'll tinker away.
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Thoughts on BWM(d) + BBM? Not sure I ever used this combination in all those years.
I usually go with some kind of deep playmaker, but trying to find the right setup for Everton - Gueye and Davies seem to be the perfect couple for those roles. Although Gueye could work as DLP(d) as well.as of now:
GK(d)
WB(s) - CD(d) - BPD (d) - WB(s)
BBM(s) - BWM(d)
W(s) - AM(s) - IF(a)
CF/AF(a)
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vor 5 Stunden schrieb jere_d:
Tierney 17.5 (24.5) (paid him 60k wages so I dont understand that other guy who spent his whole wage budget on him)
That might be me
What I meant is I had to reallocate wage budget as the board didn't give me any extra transfer money.0 -
vor 2 Minuten schrieb Arsenal71:
Starts with Theory, then practice which you need to understand the roles and how they affect the tactic. It all comes with experience
Playing this game since CM01/02, thanks. Great he's doing wonders for you "in theory" though
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Arsenal71:
Why sell him? Play him behind the SC and he will perform wonders. If your trying to sell he will be difficult due to his wages and the loyalty bonus arsenal would have to pay.
Is that in theory, or did you actually play him and make him work wonders in Fm 19? If so, how? For me he had a super disappointing season, which might be down to my poor tactics though.
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Damn, we have a situation. Season's going well. Still possible to clinch the league title. Lost the Mickey Mouse Cup to City and went out of FA cup in the semis to Liverpool. But look at the league table:
And now this will be my end to the season:
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26 PL matches into my beta save, and it's going reasonably well. Sitting in 2nd only 3 points off Liverpool. Won 18, drawn 6, lost only 2, scored the second-most goals (51) and conceded the least (17).
My tactics could be described as a hybrid of the possession and gegenpress presets we find in FM, but it's ever evolving. As good as we are defensively, we struggle up front, otherwise we could well have turned some of the draws into wins.I kind of am too attached to the Arsenal to just get rid of everybody and do my own thing, so I'm playing with some extra challenges: make Torreira/Xhaka work and make Auba/Laca work. TorXhak worked pretty well, BUT: Guendouzi is doing exceptionally, so I decided on roles in midfield that don't really suit Xhaka. So I decided to loan him out to PSG and got Emre Can in on loan instead. I will have to decide at the end of the season if I keep Granit around as a sub, or if I cash in.
Laca/Auba: Meh. Tried a variety of roles, nothing seems to really click. Auba is doing okay, tried him as a Raumdeuter to get im running off the ball more than dribbling with it, but actually IF(a) works better. Laca just has foot cancer or something. He just doesn't score enough and fluffs a lot of chances. I tried about every role available as well, nothing really makes him shine. He's a CF(a) for the time being. Maybe once Reiss Nelson is back they have to share responsibilities up top. I can't seem to make both work.Best playsers rating-wise: Torreira, Bellerin, Sokratis, Guendouzi.
Traansfers: None bar Tierney. Didn't get any budget in winter (while every other team bought all of the wonderkids, thanks for nothing board), used wage budget to barely make Tierny happen.
My XI:
Leno SK(s)
Bellerin/Niles WB(a) - Mustafi/Holding BPD(d) - Sokratis/Kos CD(d) - Tierney/Kola WB(s)
Torreira/Douzi DLP(d) with tackle harder - Douzi/Ramsey BBM(s)
Iwobi/ESR W(s) - Özil/Miki Treq(a) - Auba/Welbz IF(a)
Lacazette/Nketiah EVERY ROLE
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6 hours ago, Altair said:
I don't understand some player ratings this year. I mean Mbappé has CA and O. Dembelé wtf. Marcos Llorente Real Madrid DM only has PA and Achraf in CA when he is actually better right now. This database looks like from last year.
Could you please not casually post CA/PA in here? It's really annoying. Thanks!
On topic:
It's a beta, it looks and feels like a beta. I'm very good with all additions and multiple new approaches, just hoping that the final product is more polished from a technical point of view.1 -
17 minutes ago, OhhScottySinclair said:
There is a tactic with forwards and a tactic without forwards which is better and resembles Atletico's playing style more as the strikers get more involved in the build up and track back further than the half way line.
Thanks. I guess the DLP/BBM is the "standard" strikerless and the one with two BWMs the one to grind out results.
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I'm really confused by which is which regaring the downloads at the end of OP. All 4?
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3 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:
It's a very specialised system. It's not going to work with a random team. That's the point of the whole thread and a running theme through everything I've written.
I didn't mean to disrespect what you've created. I was just casually trying out this system (and failed miserably), which makes me appreciate your efforts even more.
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14 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:
If you are 'just skipping through' how do you expect it to work? It isn't a plug and play tactic. A lot of thought needs to be given to the players that you use in the system.
It is by its nature a very aggressive set-up, so top teams will generally do better with it, but the risks to the defense can always be mitigated. To find out how, you'd need to watch the games, which you clearly aren't doing.
I did not expect anything and I am in no way surprised it's (not) working this way, don't get me wrong. It was just to see if it would _maybe_ work with a more or less random other team, which it clearly doesn't without altering either the lineup or the system.
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4 minutes ago, BadAss88 said:
I've tested it out, only for one match with Man Utd against Chelsea, first half Zlatan F9, losing 2-0, second half Mata SS instead of Zlatan and we won 2-3 and the football was way better so I guess I'm gonna try a strikerless formation for the very first time, Man City or Dortmund seem well equiped for the job!
Trying this with BVB at the moment, not a serious save, just skipped through half a season basically sticking to this tactic. Can't say it works wonders. Once Reus is fit it's getting better, but other than that really struggling to find the goal. Playing Auba at SS doesn't work well as he has to be retrained and lacks technical finesse, defense is very mediocre. 8th in the league after half the season, this tactic seems to be for top-top teams only.
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23 minutes ago, Jorsin said:
I noticed something similar - check your GK. In this system it should be a sweeper keeper. That will adjust the passing to match.
When i open instructions in-game, opposed to the TC before, everything looks right. Seems to be one of those annoying UI glitches.
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It's weird, when I set up TIs like you do, my passing appears to be shorter than in your TIs, see screen. Or am i missing something?
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Wow. Thanks for this.
Inclined to try to implement this one at Man City at one point. I guess it will take more than two seasons to win the treble, but there are more than enough ressources to get in the puzzle pieces needed.The thought of a CM-AM of Gündogan-Silva-Sané-Aguero-Sterling is neat, though.
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13 hours ago, torehj said:
After playing almost a season with this style and tactic with AC Milan, I am pretty happy with it. 2 points behind Juve, and 12 points above third place. But I have noticed a problem:
- We often have many shots (25-30), but many of them are longshots (15-20) if I tell my players to put the ball into the net, almost nothing happens in attack. The shots fall to 5-10 pr. match and few goals.
Any tips?
I feel that sometimes switching to counter improves my attacking play. You'll draw out opposition a tad and get a little more space for your players to run into, your midfielders will then more often chose to play through balls to your AM or striker instead of taking shots. I usually switch to counter right when i scored one goal and often score some more afterwards.
In general though, this is not a very high scoring tactic i feel. Winning 1-0, 2-0 a lot, realy high scorelines are a rare thing.0 -
This works a charm on FM 17, btw. Using the Sacchi tactic with Benfica atm, they have a great squad for this (just retrain Pizzi & Guedes as WMs on the left side and you're pretty much set).
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Arsenal - Troubles on the right
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Interesting take. Any individual instructions that matter? I like the use of two wingers, i think that's the way to go. It kind of screams CF(s) as the striker, I wounder how this would work.