dannyfc
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Posts posted by dannyfc
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15 hours ago, Rodrigogc said:
I think these two black spaces are basically where FM has been lacking to focus on. We see little creative play going on in these spaces, and I'm not talking about assist coming from there, I'm talking about passing and involvement of players. Whenever I play and the ball enters the black space, usually what happens is the players will move the ball to wide areas and cross. Not that it doesn't happen IRL, but FM is almost certain it will happen. It makes the ME very dull and predictable, since wide play is OP and dumb players like Adama Traore and Dembele benefit from the imbalance of the ME.
Fully agree - I think the game struggles to properly simulate close control in tight spaces which is why play often gets funneled wide where there's more space.Players are too risk adverse to holding on to the ball when play gets congested. It's largely why technically brilliant players are less effective than physical ones in the match engine.
I'm sure it's got a lot worse since FM 19 but may be remembering the older versions through rose tinted glasses.
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18 hours ago, Kcinnay said:
For the first time in 25 years, I've returned to a previous version. It feels weird, I miss the visuals of the pitch, the set piece creator and the people who can help sell players, but it's such a relief to play the ME of FM 23, where there are actual differences in playing styles, where setting up a long ball tactic team can result in a pass completion of 60% while the possession oriented opponent hits the 90% mark. It of cours lacks positional play, but it has differences in PPDA, you can have a style, it's actually visible whether you're into possession or direct football, whether you like to press or prefer to stand off. I really, really hope the last patch of FM24 sort out the uniformity in playing styles in the ME (despite totally different settings and preferences, as others have pointed out), because that's the Debbie Downer for me.
Stupid question - but are FM 24 saves compatible with FM 23?
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@Rashidi I notice you opt for Work Into the Box in most of your tactics, any particular reason why?
Id be interested to know how it influences player behaviour differently from tempo and passing settings. Thanks
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On 15/12/2023 at 18:02, dzek said:
I think SI measure this differently as irl. This stat measure opposinitions passes in their half and a little after halfway before a defensive action happen by your team. SI measure this on YOURS half which mean how many passes opponents have made in YOUR half before your team do a defensive action but I have experience this too that whatever I do if you play with high press you have high numbers of OPPDA.
But even then still you'd expect a high line to encounter less passes per defensive action in your own half compared to a lower defensive line. Having very few teams clustered in the bottom right quadrant feels off.
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16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
They're my go to DM role these days. I think it's more about the attributes of the DM player I'd prioritize over a specific role.
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The higher positioning is nice, both in and out of possession.
- I want them challenging for the ball a bit earlier and to offer a central passing outlet to link defence and attack
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You can play them w/or w/out hold position on them.
- Since they're a blank role, you don't have added baggage under the hood and can completely customize the PIs as you'd like as well.
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If in a pairing, two support position DM's will keep them in line with each other, which I prefer for defensive structure.
- A solo DM(s) works great as well.
But yea I'm more picky about the profile of DM I recruit to play the position. Height is a big deal, which is a shift you see in the modern game w/ French center backs converted to play the position.
What level are you playing at? That will dictate how quick the forwards are. For a top flight level, I would say 14 pace is pretty slow, but the acceleration you'd need to take into account as well (ie. can they hit top speed). My general feeling is that 15 is decent, but once you hit 16 you're starting to threaten with the pace specifically.
- Once you've got an attribute at 17, they're probably better at that specific thing than anyone else on the pitch, so you can start to play to that strength. In a counter attack, having one attacker with 17 pace makes you scary to the opposition when they're in possession.
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I'd try to have at least one of your attackers be rapid, it's one of the reasons a traditional Winger role can be nice. These players don't have to have good mentals to be effective for you, and w/dribbling, flair + pace and a bit of crossing you've got a brilliant player.
- I picked up Largie Ramazani, a Belgian winger, on my save in FM23. I don't think he had crazy potential or anything but he had that profile (18 acceleration, 17 pace + two footed) and he made us a huge threat when the ball turned over.
- You can check out the 1v1 match ups in their defensive line and see where you have an advantage.
If you don't have a rapid frontline you can still counter attack, but you might not want to pass into space + play a little more actively within the match itself.
Great, thanks. Maybe I'll drop pass into space in the meantime.
I'm in the Championship, my team is probably below average hence the desire to play on the counter. However paradoxically I'm dominating the ball but just can't seem to unlock defences.
I've always assumed that direct passing is a necessity for counters, but based on your mentality which determines short I'm assuming that's not true. Would you say high tempo is a requirement?
With regards to wingers, I'm looking at few in pre-season but with my budget it's rare to find 16+ pace without extreme deficits in other areas.
Bit of a tangent but how important are balance/agility? I've got my eye on this guy but unsure if he'd be that effective in the Championship. My targetman is dominant so as look as he can whip in some crosses it might work
These are my current wingers. Technically decent but struggling to make much impact
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The higher positioning is nice, both in and out of possession.
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On 28/11/2023 at 22:27, Cloud9 said:
Here's a structured 4-3-3 that sets you up to counter attack and offers the ability to trap inside or outside depending on the opposition you're facing. I'd recommend utilizing some sort of trap this year if you're looking to attempt a more conservative approach to the game.
- Width can be dropped down to fairly narrow + more direct passing vs especially difficult opposition.
- The defensive line can be bumped up vs slow frontlines.
I've avoided wingbacks in favor of a more stable backline and as always, the winger(a) is a right footed player off the left hand side. DM(s) has hold position, FB(s) I ask to run wide with the ball. The Stopper/Cover combo I've stepped away from as the impact on defensive structure seemed too high.
See earlier posts here on attributes to look for when executing a mid block (general guidelines is no passengers), ways to execute a pressing trap itself, and how to tailor passing instructions to more efficiently launch the counter. That being said, I'd prioritize some height on the DM for this setup.
I was running into some troubles with 5 at the back systems and was a little bored of the 3-4-2-1 approach to the game, so this was my solution.
- The systems strong point is its flexibility imo, so I'd recommend tailoring your game to the specific opposition you're playing for the best results.
How defensively sold is a DM(s) compared to an Anchor man or DM(d)? How would they differ positionally? Doesn't it risk exposing the CBs?
I'm always be weary of not having any defensive roles in midfield, so be interested to know if that's too risk adverse.Also in regard to quickness, my front three all have 14 pace which feels just on the threshold of 'quick'. You think that's adequate or should I adopt a less direct style?
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I'm also struggling on the possession won and can't seem to move the dial. Tried counter-press, high defensive line, high closing down, but we're always amongst the worst in the team league.
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- Popular Post
26 minutes ago, andu1 said:Also... Kane is a bit slow IMO... i don't think he's 12 acceleration slow IRL... maybe 13 or 14 would be better... Strikers without pace don't score lots of goals in FM.... I mean he has 14 pace.. He should also have 14 acc...
For me '14' is above average quickness, which Kane definitely doesn't have, so it's already generous.
His abilities are in essentially ever other attribute. If that doesn't translate to the match engine the issue is there rather than grading him as a quick player to compensate
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4 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
High pressing and even gegenpressing teams IRL don't actually press all the time, they pick their moments. These high press tactics were rebalanced in FM23, when they reworked the fatigue system. Yea they can work, but they do so with diminishing impact over the course of a season as you run your boys into the ground.
I don't buy that, I still think it's far too easy to maintain and ultra higher pressing style over the course of the season without being penalised by jadedness or injuries. I would like to see SI make the effectiveness of pressing much more dependent on player attributes and training sessions that specifically practice the traps in-week. It should be a style you can impress over time, rather than simply slap on to any team at any level and get results from.
As a tangent to that I feel tactical familiarity itself is far too easy to build and maintain and should be largely governed by the focus of your training sessions. (i.e. set-pieces, defensive organisation, transitions, pressing, etc)
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I'm glad you're getting good results out of a low block and low LoE.
Near enough every successful tactic I see is some Gegenpress variant with ultra high lines and closing down. Always wanted to avoid that route as it feels a cheap to overachieve so it's a relief to know other playing styles are not only viable but effective.
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14 hours ago, kennypavey said:
It's FM24 and I'm trying to master transitions in a 4-3-3, but I can't seem to get it functioning the idea I want it to. The team is Sweden, which currently has:
- Average but industrious midfield 3 (Jens Cajuste, Hugo Larsson, Mattias Svanberg)
- Great attacking players in front 3 (Alexander Isak, Viktor Gyökeres, Jesper Karlsson, Dejan Kulusevski, Roony Bardghji etc.)
- "Standard" defenders (Quite traditional fullbacks in Augustinsson and Emil Holm, central defenders in Lindelöf and Hien/Ekdal/Starfelt).
My attacking players are almost all at their best with the ball at their feet running at the defense in quick transitions, so my basic idea is:
- Out of possession, drop a bit (mid-block) and then try to win the ball (trigger press more often).
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When winning the ball first option should always be to launch front 3 in space.
- Full backs support
- Midfield mainly for ball-winning and recycling, but players like Svanberg might pop-up late in penalty box
Generally I prefer defensively solid tactics, and I rather win 1-0 and 4-2. Unfortunately, the latter is how I currently seem to be winning.
Another issue is against much weaker opponents everything seems to be a bit hasty. I still want the counter to be the first option, but we need to be more patient when that is not an option.
Can anyone see where I am going wrong here?
If you're scoring goals but the issue is defensive stability, I think something as simple as changing the DM(s) to an Anchor role could help give the defence more protection. Only two defensive roles is very attacking. What type of goals are you conceding?
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Anyone finding their scouts aren't returning results on recruitment focuses?
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Context: I'm struggling to generate consistent xG and want to understand what in-game feedback I can use to address where its breaking down.
I generally find watch Full Matches is the easiest way to understand, but I simply don't have the time to do that and want to rely more on the analytics which I rarely use.
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Also - I've noticed the 'Match Preparation' screen is greyed out and states 'Unavailable'. I've converted a save from FM 23 so wanted to check if it's a compatibility issue or something I'm missing to enable it. Thanks!
edit; sorry ignore this, realised it becomes available when prompted just before the fixture.
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42 minutes ago, Jack Sarahs said:
Can we please keep the comments to feedback on FM24 early access.
I would respectfully say before jumping to conclusions that people actually play the games for themselves and use their own eyes to determine if they think there are issues. If you find any please report them in our bug tracker and we in the Match team will take a look at it, but basing thoughts and comments on one person's holidaying of matches in 1 save file doesn't help anyone and it also clogs up this thread from useful feedback.
ThanksThis is feedback about FM 24, no?
I've only played a couple games and my initial observations was the exact same in regards to pass completion. FM 23 nailed it so it's a disappointing regression to go back to how it was in FM 22 where any player is able to find a pass without issue.Early days so my opinion may change but it's not looking good bruv. (everything else looks great tho tbf)
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Has it been confirmed anywhere which new features aren't compatible with FM 23 saves? Anyone have any idea what they could be?
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10 minutes ago, Eccentric_Ed said:
This problem is the main reason why I will be skipping FM24. I just really hope that in FM25 they make winning a league title challenging, so that after you win the league it feels like you've done something quite impressive. Because at the moment most very good and experienced players say that they can win league titles in their sleep, but that shouldn't be the case. It's supposed to be a title CHALLENGE, not a walk in the park.
Why do you assume it's not improved in FM 24?
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8 hours ago, rp1966 said:
I think this also goes beyond the final third - the ME just prefers putting the ball in the air to a ground pass in a lot of situations (maybe its space-seeking algorithm biases it to booming a crossfield ball to a man in space rather than passing along the ground to a nearby player with the opposition a bit closer).
I genuinely believe the bulk of the engines issues derive from this. Any time the play become even slightly congested to immediate response is to find the space as opposed to try and play through. It's so tedious to watch and risk adverse. I want to see players attempt tight interplay, 1-2s, wiggle their way through. These are the actions in a game where the technically best players on the pitch thrive and define their worth, and atm FM properly fails to showcase that. It just lacks any type of flair or risk taking activities.
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3 hours ago, forameuss said:
I mean...have you watched modern football? Whilst morale is maybe a bigger deal than it could be in the game, it does quite well modelling how childish and temperamental modern footballers are. Although I've yet to see an entire team collectively decide not to perform so they can get someone sacked, and then magically get better afterwards, so maybe they're lacking there.
It's a common misconception for fans to confuse lack of effort with lack of confidence / form. Very few players are stupid enough to risk what can be very short windows of opportunity at the top. Also don't think people realise the levels of commitment you need to get there in the first place. Sorry - not having a go but get annoyed by the perception of these young men being mentally weak or childish while having to consistently perform in one of the highest pressure, competitive, workplace environments. Especially when its's men in their 40s or 50s slagging verbal abuse at kids as young as 18 or 19 ultimately trying their best.
But back to the initial point, I do actually think morale has a huge bearing on performances. You often see how quickly a team seemingly devoid of talent can suddenly turn it around off the back of one or two good results. Self-belief is a huge component of sports, on a par with the tactical side of the game IMO.
The tricky bit when it comes to FM is making that side of the game interesting. The player and media interactions are beyond tedious and don't actually provide anything to think about but pressing a response on autopilot.
The Team Cohesion mechanic is good as it puts focus on squad balance and leadership, but is still far too easy to override with a few team building training modules. I wish it took look to build up, and would heavily penalise overhauls in personnel or lack of good personality types.
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15 minutes ago, zsolt86 said:
Not sure some people understand my point here. Just by putting the odds and statistics together, the outcome of the game is ridiculous. I just went through all the games of Madrid this season. I picked up the most dominant LaLiga and Champions League games they had so far. One is a 4-1 win against Mallorca, and the other is the 5-1 victory against Celtic. Just look at the stats, you can't even compare it with what they did to me in the game. Do you understand what 40 shots in 90min means, especially that I had one. That's like they are alone on the pitch, without any opponent.
And every game is like this. We play well or at least have a balanced game with Barcelona or any other team, but when it comes to Real Madrid , my players turn into complete rubbish.
No matter how bad my tactics are, but by having £40-50m attacking midfielders/strikers, they should finish 1 or 2 strikes just by individual value/talent, regardless my tactics. But looking at the full game, hmmm... what to say, it's funny to watch them.
I don't mind to lose against Real Madrid, as mentioned, they have bigger budget and more value, probably better manager. But constantly getting hammered with these stats, which could never happen in real life, that's a proof, that teams like Real Madrid/Liverpool are overpowered against you.
This same topic gets posted time and time again, and it's always the same reply. The calculations in the match engine are an output of player attributes, tactics, morale, condition, and to an certain random chance. That's it
If you're consistently losing again and again to the same team, they must have an significant advantage in at least one of those areas.
I don't get why people can't just accept that and have to assume there is an ulterior motive at play. If you believe that, then the obvious question is why? Why would the developer bother to give Real Madrid (or anyone) their own unique advantage?
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9 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:
We wouldn't be able to include RL results, so the league positions/results and fixtures would need to be randomised for the first half of the season.
How come? Licensing? Seems oddly specific.
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Were there 3 patch last year, or just the 2? How many had ME updates?
Hoping we get some more tweaks in January but nervous if they're just going to settle on the possession issue until next year. My save has ground to a halt since the patch.
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18 hours ago, NoobGoneBad said:
Was playing club world cup and made it to final against Bayern Munich. Final was 15:00 and 12:33 my wonderkid was called up to Gold Cup with Mexico. I know national team is important but is it that important that you have to leave your team immediately? Couldn't he wait for 3 hours, win the cup and then start travelling?
Needless to say I lost the final when tournament top scorer was taken from me.
How you getting Endrick to join AIK by 2025?
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Same issue as FM 22, too easy to keep the ball in the your own third so defensive teams will just hog the ball to death.
Was OK until the patch but tbh only because there was a preference to hoof it rather than any genuine difficulties playing short.
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Most Balanced Match Engine?
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted · Edited by dannyfc
To be fair to SI, I don't think it's a case of 'fixing' it but rather trying to replicate a simulation of real life football is just an absurdly difficult task so there will always be limitations. If you watch any other football game try to simulate AI vs AI it doesn't even remotely look like football. Even beyond football genres, there isn't a single game that has AI sophisticated enough to convincingly emulate human behaviour.
I think the challenge is to properly replicate final third play you need to simulate creative decision making and sensible risk taking. That's a hell of lot harder to code then wing-play, which is simply showing a faster player beating his man down the line then a forward with higher anticipation getting to the cross ahead of his marker.
There was a big overhaul in FM 13 that introduced physical presence to the game to prevent players ghosting through one another. Fingers crossed FM 25 yields another leap forward with something similarly impactful.