[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

9 hours ago, davehanson said:

No they won't. In future versions of FM the ban will be lifted when RL lifts the ban, if that makes sense?

And, the two suggestions so far, 1 year and your 2 seasons: If I told you Germany (as East and West) were not involved in European/International competitons for 8 years and 5 years respectivley after WW2 and then suggested that Russia should be banned for about 6 years as I think that is fair, what would you say?

And this is where SI have an issue. It isn't like Brexit. Brexit we knew would happen, we just didn't know the state of it. SI guessed and made various scenarios. Let me throw something out there - if Russia occupy Ukaraine I can't see Russia or it's clubs ever being let back in European/World competition. So, all those: The war will end. Yes it will, but nobody knows how or what will happen when it does.

 

Russia won't be unbanned before the life cycle of FM22 is over. I personally can't see them being unbanned from European/World football for at least 5 years.

Yes, my mistake. I meant that in FM22, Russia will be banned forever.

And that's the thing that bugs me. I bought FM22 last year, but had I known this 22.4 update would happen and be basically mandatory, I wouldn't have.

You say that it isn't like Brexit, because we knew that would happen, just not how. I think the war is entirely similar. It will end, we just don't know how.

You think it might take 5-6 years, hey, that's fair enough. For a lot of reasons I hope that's too pessimistic, but I respect the estimate. And that's exactly what I hoped SI would do, as they've skillfully done with so many other complex issues.

And everyone, please don't compare this to the Greenwood case. His career may well be over, and his absence doesn't fundamentally alter the whole European footballing ecosystem indefinitely.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

12 minutes ago, davehanson said:

A lot of people have commented saying that it shouldn't be forever. But, FIFA/UEFA have indefinetley banned them - at the moment that means they will be banned forever. They obviously won't. However, anything other than following UEFA/FIFA laws as they are at the moment is just a stab in the dark.

 

So, anyone saying they shouldn't be banned forever, how long should they be banned for? (In your opinion).

But in FM, they will. That's the problem.

In my opinion, SI should make an educated guess like they've done quite skillfully so many times before. Just like with Brexit and EU enlargements.

Maybe in one timeline the restrictions end after two seasons. In another they end after four. Their guess is as good as anyone's, and I wouldn't blame them for an overly optimistic or pessimistic guess.

There are so many intelligent ways these scenarios could have been implemented while still being respectful, plausible, and most importantly: fun.

I can't unsee the eternal war from my game right now. It's making me want to just drop it for good. Heck, even my current game in Scotland where I'm in the middle of 2024 will be affected. That really, really sucks.

And just to preemptively counter any inane responses (btw, not targeting you here, dave) - yes, the real war is an absolute nightmare. It obviously doesn't even compare to any of our first world problems here, but this is the FM forum after all. I have donated to humanitarian organisations helping out the victims, and I suggest everyone who can do the same.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

12 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Making an "educated guess" about when a country might join the European Union is massively different to making one about when pretty heavy sanctions caused by invading another country might end.  The solution currently matches reality as far as anyone can tell with certainty.  The only "certainty" at the moment is that Russia will not participate in any competitions.  I expect eventually that will change, but no-one can say that's a certainty.  So you work with what you have.

That's where I disagree. The war will eventually end. We don't know how, but it will. The game can simulate that, just as the theoretical EU enlargements. No-one can say that those enlargements are a certainty either.

Educated people work at SI. So go on and "guesstimate". I don't care if they get it wrong - no one knows the future after all. Maybe you think it's another 10 years of war, fair enough. But at least even in that scenario there's an end in sight for those that want to play (or dream about playing) that far into the future.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

26 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Now, do I agree with their implementation of the decision? That's another question. I am not so sure the Russian ban should be indefinite... but as things stand, their suspension from FIFA and UEFA is indefinite.

If there was a hypothetical end date for Russia's suspension on FM22, how long should they be banned for? 5 years? 10 years? Should there be some random date (decided during the creation of a new save) when Russia are readmitted into world football, a bit like how Brexit was implemented on FM17? Nobody knows when or how this conflict will end, so how do you expect a video game developer to predict that?

IMO the answer to the highlighted question should be a resounding yes. That would be the clever solution. Just as you can now go "Huh. Cool." when Bosnia eventually joins the EU in the game, you should be able to make a sigh of relief when the Russian clubs and national teams are back. Because you know that means the war has ended. And we can all make our own little stories about how the world hopefully changes for the better in this particular timeline.

Current state of the game is doom and gloom. War eternal.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

12 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Not sure why there is suddenly this cry out for how SI have dealt with it.  Not a nice decision to have to make, but it's probably the most suitable one.  They had three decisions, right? 

1) Ignore everything that's happened
2) Do what they've got now in perpetuity
3) Do what they've got now but put some arbitrary end date on it

1 and 3 seem like poor ideas.  2 isn't great, but it's the best course of action they could go down in the circumstances.

Why is no. 3 a poor idea? As far as I know, we've already got similar things in the game. Like Bosnia, Serbia etc. eventually joining the European Union. I even think Britain can re-enter? There's no confirmed date for any of that IRL, but the game makes educated guesses which makes the game world feel alive and evolving. Those are really clever mechanics, and I applaud SI for them.

IMO, the current solution does the opposite. Apologies for the harsh verdict, but this is an unrealistic, borderline lazy implementation. I understand the time schedule may be tight, but it's really a suboptimal solution. The war just never ends in-game.

Russian players never getting a cap again ruins not only playing in the Russian league, but also having any Russian players in other leagues. I really hope it's moddable somehow.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

8 minutes ago, gggfunk said:

This is question for Putin rather than SI.

No, Football Manager is a simulation. SI don't control the real world, but they do control their virtual world.

 

They have modelled uncertain, yet plausible futures before. Why not imagine an end to this war as well? Seems rather depressing not to.

 

The war will eventually end, and I hope it will be sooner rather than later. But in FM22, it will rage on forever. I think that's a weird design choice.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

I honestly don't feel like starting a new save after this change. It's absolutely immersion-breaking to think that Russia would never play an international match ever again. Or that Russian clubs would never feature in Europe again.

 

If you think about it, it doesn't even make sense as a criticism of the current Russian regime. In fact, the message this sends seems unintentionally bleak. The war is officially eternal.

 

C'mon, SI. Where is the hope that we'll see peace return to our continent? We have to believe that things will eventually change for the better, right?