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acmilano112000

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  1. What exactly does the "Brings ball out of defense" PPM do? Does the player seek to dribble and bring the ball out at his feet, or move forward to help the ball be worked upfield via short passing? My guess is the former, but I definitely want to be careful because while I love a CB dribbling forward to take available space, I don't want him taking anyone on! Hopefully this PPM can rectify past troubles I've had getting CBs to carry the ball past the halfway line when there is nobody around. For example, I'm picturing that it would be great for the wide CB's in Conte's Chelsea to help them come forward and support the attack when not pressured as they do so well.
  2. Great post. (Sorry for Italy! I watched the game, it was sort of sad to watch such a talented team lose by virtue of a manager's miserable organization rather than by Sweden's being necessarily better). I'm working on a version of the Conte's 3-5-2 that borrows elements from Pep's use of the 3-1-4-2 during a few games with City where he played Aguero and Jesus together up front, 3 at the back, Fernandinho as the "1" DM, obviously Silva and KDB as the 2 inside players in the strata of 4 (sort of as interior CM trequartistas), and two of his wide players as traditional wide players instead of the normal Pep inverted width stuff. As a fan of systems built around a Barcelona style CB-CB-Busquets triangle (using HB or whatever for Busquets), I'm naturally perplexed by a system that places a single DM directly upfield from a central CB. As in CB-CB-CB with a single DM north of the middle guy. Almost gives me shivers at first and seems to make the central CB redundant for passing options. However. I'm a bit bored of tactics originating from the Barca 4-3-3 and I've been intrigued by how many times I've now seen these 3-1-... systems emerging to great success. Obviously Conte and Pep are opposites, but lets see what we can find. This also reminds me of @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s great 3-5-2 Tactic where Bazoer was his single DM in the early iterations. Anyhow I'm still meddling but I'll report back with what I've found (and start a new thread if it turns out promising enough). Not meaning to redirect your thread here, but I loved watching Italy play the 3-5-2 with Conte, and amid the emergence of 3-CB systems I think it is definitely worth re-exploring. I like that you've opened up the conversation starting with Ventura's major failure and hopefully through comparing him to Conte's success (as you've began to do) and then expanding it we can find an interesting new 3-CB tactic. ...Can we turn the "Ventura Nation Destroyer" tactic into the "Destroyer of Nations"? btw this is an excellent article on Conte's 3-5-2: http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/07/22/antonio-conte-exploring-italys-tactics-at-euro-2016/
  3. Struggling to find how to see a player's ability with each foot like I used to. It shows his preferred foot on many screens on the player profile, but I can't find the screen from previous FMs where it shows his ability with Right and Left. I don't always want to know just which is preferred, most of the time I'm curious how good his weaker is. The only workaround I've found is that it comes up when I do a player comparison. Surely there is an easier place and I've missed it?
  4. Interesting post. Might be helpful to mention the similarities to the oft-copied Chelsea 3-4-3. This set up is pretty identical to my attempt at creating the Conte Chelsea 3-4-3. Same shape. I didn't use a HB, and I believe I had the striker as a CF(s), but basically identical after that. I may also have experimented with shifting the DLP to a DM and having the only "playmaker" be an AP(A) trying to mimic what Hazard does. Eden, not Thorgan . The crucial part for me was having both attacking mids have individual roaming from position on so that they can overload space where they see fit. Sometimes, as I saw when watching Chelsea IRL, both Pedro and Hazard would be on the same side of the pitch along with the wing-back looking to overload. Which freed the opposing wing back to sort of float into the box opposite them and try to get on the end of a cross or second ball if Costa missed it. I also used WM's instead of players in the Wing Back spots because I just liked where they positioned themselves better. May we see some screen shots of your average positioning during matches? I have a soft spot for Gladbach and love playing as them for the reasons you describe in the beginning. Nice stadium too. Unfortunately I'm still plugging on with my Torino Fm16 side these days as I have some regens whose careers I'm very invested in. You know how it goes...
  5. For what it's worth, in case the amount of frustrated users is important and is not being made clear, I agree with @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Add me to the (large, I suspect) list of users with frustrations about this specific Halfback topic.
  6. Fair. So, back on topic, question then for you @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!: What's with the full-backs? Can you talk about your choice to make them FBs instead of WBs? I'd wager its more common to see WBs in the 4-1-4-1 shape. Is it purely your concern for counter-attacks? You've explained your central roles so beautifully (RPM, Regista, etc). What's your take on the wide backs? Sorting out the wide backs is my other new challenge. Previously I had a DM halfback and two raiding WBs on attack and support but I had them geting into fantastic positions on the edges of the opposing box and refuse to cross only to wait for a defender to close them down and try to dribble the defender to the byline. 9 times out of 10 what should have been my wide-open-square-ball-tap-in-goal turns into a corner kick instead. (From what I hear this happens still on FM17.) So I'm accepting it as an issue of the ME and moving on to looking into alternative goals for my wide backs. The goal used to be exactly as above, minus the end result, but now I'm looking more towards how Bayern use theirs IRL (especially under Pep) and seeing what else I can do with the backs.
  7. That is very funny @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! On your post about Riedewald I just assumed it was a screenshot of Bazoer. Forgot about Jairo. I stand corrected, you have TWO perrrrrfect players for a true ball playing CB. Personally, I don't find that the tactics creator "BPD" is ball playing enough. It needs further player adjustment with training and PI's to coax the right moves. (Not to mention that the BPD even on stopper doesn't move out with the ball enough). For the life of me I cannot get a CB to step over the midfield line when we are in calm controlled advanced possession. Which is why I've given up trying to build a Conte 3-4-3 and basically all 3CB systems. In possession it just winds up with 3 wasted underutilized players sitting on the halfway line. Maybe works for a pure counterattacking tactic. And I've tried experimenting with sweepers and liberos but I don't want the central one to push up, I usually want the outside two to push up the way Azpilicueta and Cahill have been doing recently for Chelsea. Anyhow, sorry, mini-rant. To get back on topic, the point of that is why the 3CB frustration has led me back to 4-1-4-1 based tactics like this thread is about...
  8. Nice, this is exactly what I've experimented with too. I don't think that killer balls is a step too far at all for a CB with the right skill set. You have the perrrrfect CB in Bazoer in my mind for what we are discussing... but in your examples above you've been playing him in midfield? So are you suggesting that you may switch him back to CB or already do so now and then? I'm playing FM16 with Torino and had Bazoer himself playing CB for me for a season trying to implement these passes into the system but Tottenham swooped for him and I was forced to sell. Rugani and my future captain 19 y/o regen don't quite have the passing vision yet. I have an excellently developed Kimmich who I normally play in midfield but with surplus players there I've been experimenting with him as an elite ball playing CB. Only problem is that he's wasted there if the whole point is to open up a range of (not over the top, but line-skipping) passes from CB but he doesn't play them frequently enough. Still tweaking, but this is a goal for sure.
  9. Fantastic thread. Carefully thought through and simple explanations of complex issues. One of the next things to deal with in evolving this style of play for me is getting (at least one of) my CBs comfortable playing a direct ground pass into central midfield or even attacking midfield stratas and skipping the shorter pass to the DM or outside backs. As described here... http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/05/12/tactical-theory-vertical-build-up-passing/ Especially when playing any of these systems against a Dortmund style 4-2-3-1. As you point out -- they have a ST, AMC, and potentially even a narrowing wide player coming to close down our two CBs and DM, so this is 3v2 for us or 3v3 if we take long enough that their wide player can come pressure us too. A confident ground pass from our CB straight through to our CMs will skip this pressure well and is something that coincidentally Hummels was so great at at Dortmund. Training my CB to do this is one of the sort of next step tactical pieces that I find really brings an added dimension to tactics like yours.
  10. I could be missing something but this doesn't make sense to me. All it does to have them swap positions is that they each take a turn in each others' spots for a bit and then go back. It is to throw off man marking, etc. This doesn't get them playing closer together at all. It just appears that way in your average positions map because that shows each player as the average of spending approx half the game in one position and half in the other. As far as where your players are on the pitch at any given moment you are playing exactly as if you didn't have "swap positions" ticked at all.
  11. @Ceching You Out this is actually on FM16. I'm Control/Fluid. I agree, potentially the urgency of the WB playing the ball could be modified with this, but for now I'm focusing on the overall shape and those 3 tricky roles up top so I'll comeback to the WB once I get those to my liking.
  12. An update and a question. Update first. Played a few games with this lineup. Control/Fluid. Play out of D, Normal Tempo, Fairly Wide, Retain Poss, Look for Overlap. Bernardeschi in the "Pedro" role as a AM(s) but added very aggressive PI's "Dribble More", "Get Further Forward", and "Move into Channels". Pjaca in the "Hazard" role has default PI's for AP(a) plus "Roams from Position". It led to average positioning like this, compared to what we saw in the real Everton game (right). Simple things can be tweaked if I want to make it match up more, like my CMR Cubas could be BWM(s) rather than (d) if I want my CMs flatter like Chelsea has. The central CB is very difficult to get to drop, so we'll leave that alone for now. I tried sweeper later and it barely made a difference. As I said before, the purpose of this was to solve the Hazard / Pedro roles. For me, Pjaca #10 and Bernardeschi #11 in my friendly. Some moves from the game below illustrate why I was very pleased with this replication of the Hazard role in particular. You can see two moves here that show Pjaca's roaming during our buildup and how he comes close to the WBL to offer a pass, but also will float over to the right of the striker (Aouar) and get involved on the other side when he sees fit. Thats Pjaca (#10) at bottom partially hidden by the defender. Aouar (Costa role) is highlighted just for context. And below, he came over to the right hand channel to get on the ball himself. What I like so far: Positioning of Hazard and Pedro roles. Defensive 3 very very sturdy in their positioning. Wing Backs just where they should be -- although taking forever to cross the ball. What I don't like: Positioning of Costa role is fine but due to the strikerless formation he doesn't post up as a target in the box enough, or at least higher than Hazard/Pedro. So without enough depth to our attack, we end up sort of giving up and passing a lot of balls to the wing backs that ought to have gone more incisively into Costa's feet. I added "exploit the middle" TI to combat this and it helped a bit. Wide CB's don't push up enough to be useful for a pass from the pressured Wing Backs. Instead the Wing Backs ignore them and play to the CMs, sometimes forcing flat passes that the CB could ideally help swing over much more safely. When the Wing Backs receive the ball swung to them with nobody near them in attacking positions (as is one of the benefits of the overload in this formation), they refuse to play the cross and instead wait for a defender to get to them and then try to take him on. Horrible. Further experimenting is going to require putting all 3 front players as a flat 3 ST rather than AMC. To see if that does better with having the central striker in a more useful spot at the top of the box during our possession in the attacking third. I also am tempted to try an offset AMC, an ST, and an AMR/L on the other side. Question for the group -- What wing AM role do we think makes the player play furthest inside? Assuming all helpful PI's are ticked like "Sit narrower", and "Roam from position" Raum? IF? AP?
  13. Hi everyone. Been reading this thread since it began, reading external articles on Conte's recent system, and watched the recent matches. I'm trying to make a version of the tactic for my Torino FM16 squad. This tactic is CLEARLY crying out to be strikerless with 3 AMCs. Map from the Everton game. Who is the striker, anyhow? Even in each of your great methods so far -- everyone is getting at this from all angles but it hasn't been said yet. (The Leverkusen guy is going strikerless but keeping the AML/AMR that are causing everyone else headaches. A few people are going 3 across the ST band but then having issues with them not defending. Others are just debating between 2 narrow AMCs and 2 wide AML/AMR, and there is an issue with each that has been made clear.) What has bothered me forever about FM is that when you play 3 players in the center of any band (3 CBs, 3 CMs, 3 AMCs, etc) the wider two play in these terrific half-space positions. But when you remove the center player, then it automatically narrows the other two. Like you can't have them in those slots without a central guy pushing them apart. Which is stupid because if the game engine can handle them there then I should be able to instruct it if I want. IDEALLY I think we would all agree we want to move Aouar up to ST and have Pjaca and Bernardeschi remain exactly where they are, at AMCL and AMCR. But as you all know as soon as I move him up, the two AMCs will narrow back to where @RocheBag has been using them. Which for reasons you've all been back and forth about isn't perfect. My sense is that the evolution of what we want is to play strikerless with 3 AMCs and get the "Hazard"/"Pedro" roles perfectly lined up in the half spaces. They can defend wider than Matic/Kante but not as wide as the Wing Backs, and they can roam wherever on attack. The only issue left then is getting the "Diego Costa" role, Aouar in my Torino team, the central AMC to act more like a striker. Which I think can be achieved by just some testing of various PI's. I'll be starting with the AMC as a SS because the definition sounds most like what I want. "...main goalscoring threat... aggressively pushes forward into goalscoring positions when the ball moves into the final third and looks to close down opposing defenders when out of possession." This sounds like a central forward. The only downside I expect is that I'm not able to use the PI "Hold Up Ball", which Costa seems to do. I've also put Bernardeschi in the "Pedro" role as a AM(s) because I want that depth of positioning among them instead of an entire band of 3 on (a). Also this gives him a deeper base position but I used very aggressive PI's like "Dribble More", "Get Further Forward", and "Move into Channels". Pjaca in the "Hazard" role has default PI's for AP(a) plus "Roams from Position". Going to see how this goes. I expect I'll be fiddling with instructions to the front 3, especially the central one, but at least I should have the Hazard / Pedro roles playing where I want them. Hopefully that brings us all one step closer.
  14. Interviewed after today's Spain match, Conte said that his team are playing (tactically) like a combination of Barcelona and Atletico. This is a great quote and would be a very interesting prompt to help us with this tactic.
  15. This is huge. If the game is allowing us to make specific promises like this then of course it should not lump them together? Sometimes I take care to tell one player he will be sold if there is a bid that meets our valuation but another player that he will be sold after we find a replacement. It is a big difference.
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