[[FM22] Welcome to Eigenschaften]

13 hours ago, Deisler26 said:

Seems like you had to argue a lot for this one. Were there tears?

[[FM22] Welcome to Eigenschaften]

Congrats on promotion!

I think a lot of your issues with youth intake are due to only being the third (at best?) most reputable club in your own city, let alone region (why join Barnet's academy if you're good enough to play for Arsenal?). All the best local talents will be playing elsewhere for sure. So being in the top tier now will help with that at least!

[Youth Rating: Nationality or Club Recruited By?]

With youth ratings being dynamic now, I realised that I didn't actually know the answer to this. Apologies if this has been sorted out, I did search.

My understanding of youth development is that:

- A player gets generated. His CA/PA and attribute template are generated based on the youth rating of the country (bolded because this is the main part of my question).

- He's then recruited by teams based on their juniors recruitment and trained based on their juniors coaching. More likely to go to a local team but can be recruited from afar based on club reputation/junior recruiting and potential etc. Clubs with bigger rep or well regarded HoYD can then poach high potential players before they're part of an intake in certain circumstances. Either way, this influences their "starting" attributes.

- He then gets introduced in-game as part of a youth intake, with personality and positions/roles influenced by HOYD preferences.

 

Assuming that's broadly correct, my question is about the bold part above. Is that the player's NATIONALITY or the national structure the team that generated him PLAYS IN?

The most obvious example of why this is important is Swansea/Cardiff. A lot of their players are going to be Welsh, but they come through an English development system. So if it's based on the system, they'd have a much better chance of a high PA than if it was based on their nationality because they use the English rating rather than the Welsh rating.

Likewise, at high reputation clubs you get players with various "random" nationalities. If a newgen comes through the Chelsea youth system does it matter if they're English or Albanian? Or does coming through an English system mean they use the English youth rating regardless?

[Newgens: Nationality vs Domestic League]

With youth ratings being dynamic now, I realised that I didn't actually know the answer to this. Apologies if this has been sorted out, I did search.

My understanding of youth development is that:

- A player gets generated. His CA/PA and attribute template are generated based on the youth rating of the country (bolded because this is the main part of my question).

- He's then recruited by teams based on their juniors recruitment and trained based on their juniors coaching. More likely to go to a local team but can be recruited from afar based on club reputation/junior recruiting and potential etc. Clubs with bigger rep or well regarded HoYD can then poach high potential players before they're part of an intake in certain circumstances. Either way, this influences their "starting" attributes.

- He then gets introduced in-game as part of a youth intake, with personality and positions/roles influenced by HOYD preferences.

 

Assuming that's broadly correct, my question is about the bold part above. Is that the player's NATIONALITY or the national structure the team that generated him PLAYS IN?

The most obvious example of why this is important is Swansea/Cardiff. A lot of their players are going to be Welsh, but they come through an English development system. So if it's based on the system, they'd have a much better chance of a high PA than if it was based on their nationality because they use the English rating rather than the Welsh rating.

Likewise, at high reputation clubs you get players with various "random" nationalities. If a newgen comes through the Chelsea youth system does it matter if they're English or Albanian? Or does coming through an English system mean they use the English youth rating regardless?

[2nd Team Stats Included In First Team Squad View]

I hope this isn't intentional, because it's really annoying. Best way to explain is to give an example:

In my Squad View, Tobias Evjenn (other examples also highlighted) is stated to have 19 appearances and 9 goals, but an xG of 0.00. The xG of 0.00 is because he's never appeared in an actual first team game, and presumably xG isn't counted for reserve fixtures.  Surely when looking at my first team, Moss 2 appearances shouldn't count?

Here's his profile, where "League" appearances also count reserve team fixtures.

And here's his History page, which correctly states he's never played for the first team this season, all his 2021 appearances were for the reserves.

 

What's even more weird, that I've just now noticed and probably should be a separate post, is that Moss 2 haven't even played 19 games this year. and definitely not league games. They've only played 3 friendlies. They're not even part of a league structure.

[Difference between "Go Back" and "Man Mark" in set pieces]

Yeah, it's a "zonal" vs. "man marking" thing.

Go Back just means they'll go back and defend the area, picking up runs or milling about in the area waiting for the ball to be knocked down, whatever seems the most logical thing for them to do given their position and relative size/skills based on their own decision making ability.

Man Mark means they'll pick a player and stick to him.

It's good to have a mixture, as if a player is Man Marking a speedy/agile player and they suddenly make a break for the back post or something, the guy man marking him might not react quick enough, whereas a player not marking anyone in particular might be able to see it and cover for him.

 

I usually have defenders man marking, and defensive-minded midfielders on Go Back.

[3 missed penalties]

Anecdotally, I'm definitely seeing more penalties than I'd expect, and missing a lot more than I'd expect too (I've also had multiple penalty misses per game).

The EPL is suffering from the highest number of penalties per game in history this year at 0.53. 75% of them are scored on average.

I haven't looked at the actual stats in FM this years but they *feel* off. Will check later.

[Seniors not getting picked for Under 23s]

If your U23 manager is in charge of team selection then he's... in charge. Of team selection.

You might've made some senior players available for him to select but he's got no obligation to play them if he doesn't think they're good enough.

[Height vs. Jumping Reach]

So, this was answered in the very next post I read, haha. Mods, if you want to delete this post, feel free. My bad for not looking hard enough!

On 09/12/2020 at 18:05, HUNT3R said:

Tbf, there is somewhat of a tie here. Researchers have ranges for what JR to give a player depending on their height. Newgens will also have more realistic JR compared to their height. Extreme, but a very tall player can never have 1 of JR. A short player can never have 20. Jumping Reach is the maximum height a player can 'reach', so includes their height and jumping ability. That means that a 5'3" player can have phenomenal jumping ability, but naturally, he's at a disadvantage against a 6'7" player even with average jumping ability, so their 'reach' will still be different.

Quote

Jumping was renamed Jumping Reach because of those questions. Jumping Reach is the indicator showing how high a player can 'reach'.

So the jumping reach stat takes height into account. A player with good JR will be good in the air even if he's 5'7 (he'll just be less likely to HAVE a good JR stat if he's 5'7).

[Height vs. Jumping Reach]

Since the dawn of time, I've always assumed I knew how this worked, but I never actually thought to check. Here's me thinking to check:

Is Jumping Reach relative to height, or absolute? And does height actually matter independently?

I've always assumed that height is the "base" for how good someone would be at winning headers, and then Jumping Reach modifies it to account for shorter players who are especially good in the air. So height definitely matters, but a deficit can be overcome with training.
Then Heading comes into play to decide how good the actual header is when FM's decided who's won.

So for example, if a 6'6 guy with 12 Jumping Reach jumps with a 6'2 guy with 19 Jumping Reach, the shorter guy would have a decent chance because of his superior ability, but would still be starting at a disadvantage due to the height difference in the first place? I'm not sure, nor do I want to know, how jumping reach and height actually interact under the hood - ie, how much Jumping Reach advantage you'd need to level out a 6 inch height deficit, etc, I'm just checking that this is basically how it works in theory? Or would the 6'2 guy have a huge advantage purely because of his Jumping Reach stat, regardless of his height?

I've always put a lot of stock in height in my central defenders and strikers, but in my latest save I'm seeing quite a few guys under 6'0 with good jumping reach and I'm starting to wonder if I've been playing it wrong.

[When would you want the trait 'likes ball played into feet'?]

To my mind, it's basically the opposite of "pass into space", so logically if it was a tactical instruction it would be used in the opposite situations. Therefore, I'd want it on:

- Not overly tall, slower forwards who wouldn't necessarily win headers and don't have the pace to run onto a through ball. Bergkamp types. Maybe older guys who've lost a step physically but are still technically good players on the ball.

- Players who play in an area of the pitch where there isn't going to be much space, like AMC or more attacking MCs, who are great on the ball but maybe not the most mobile. Players who are great with the ball at their feet, but should be making through balls, not running onto them.

[[FM21] Not A Spenny Will Be Spent! - Journeyman Youth Only Save]

Glad you managed to win 6 in a row, because I don't think those finances could take a relegation haha. Gotta love a chairman who lets you spend more money than you're in debt by.

Definitely agree that Maynard, at 5'5 with 8 strength, is much more suited to being a wide player than a BWM! Hilarious that one of his best stats is heading; when does he get chance to practice that? ;p

[[FM21] A Nordic Adventure [Journeyman, starting at Moss FK]]

Squad Overview

 

Transfers In Firstly, three youth prospects released by local big clubs on youth release day:  Lukas Thorsen Hall (ST, Valerenga) Hasan Jahic (DC, Sarpsborg) Oliver Midtgard (ST, Sarpsborg)   Then a loanee made permanent on a free: Besian Kadri (DM/DC/DR, Lorenskog IF)   Then a loanee made... a loanee for a bit longer: Saadiq Faisal Elmi (DL/WBL/ML/AML, Grorud IL - Loan)   And a final addition of a veteran on a free: Daniel Berg (AMR/L, formerly of Baerum)

Transfers Out Hasan Jahic (Lorenskog IF - Free) Mikkel Hollfjord (Skedsmo - Loan) Can't say I was delighted about losing Jahic mere weeks after I signed him, but such is the way with non-contracted players... Hollfjord went out on loan for experience.

 

 

Goalkeepers

Verdict: Absolutely fine.

 

Anders Gundersen - 26 year old Norwegian, 6'2. One of the team's best players according to our assistant, clear starting 'keeper. Club's favoured personnel. 

 

Andreas Wasenius - 20 year old Norwegian, 6'1. Physically a wreck, but technically really promising. Currently a decent option (though clearly backup to Gundersen), but has potential. Is wanted by a team in our division. Has the PPM that starts counter attacks with a long throw, which won't be useful for us this year but might be useful in future.

 

 

Fullbacks

Verdict: By a huge margin our weakest area. We only have two out-and-out fullbacks and one is only here on loan (we do have another right back, Hollfjord, but he's out on loan, he's nowhere near first team ready).

 

Willy Sanneh - 23 year old Norwegian of Gabonese descent who the previous manager considered surplus to requirements. Lightning fast, but can't do much with it in defence or attack and has poor strength. Decent potential but doesn't seem like he's going to blow the doors off the division. Has the "runs down right" PPM but can't cross or dribble very well. Basically just here for depth/out of desperation. If I had anyone else at all as backup he'd be gone.

 

Basian Kadri - 22 year old 6'3 Kosovan U21 international. Was here on loan last season, and we signed him at the end of his contract. Really good player with potential to spare. He wants to be a defensive midfielder and is natural both there and at centre back, but crucially can also play rightback which is where he'll be starting. Great in the air, really strong mental abilities, other than mobility, where he's only average, physicals are great. Not great going forward,  I would much rather play him centrally but there's just no other option at right back at the moment. I did look...

 

Saadiq Faisal-Elmi, 20 year-old Norwegian. Our only leftback, returning on loan, but unlike Sanneh he's actually really good. Pacey, can dribble, crossing is a little suspect but solid defensively. We'll be playing two defensive fullbacks (Elmi might be on support instead) basically because we have to. On loan from Grorud in the division above until the end of the season and contracted to them until the end of the following season. Would definitely buy him if I could.

 

Centre Backs

Verdict: Our deepest position.

 

Rene Elshaug, 34 year old Norwegian, the club's vice-captain. Rene has decent defensive technicals. 6'2 but not great in the air, but he does have strong mentals for this level, except his ****-poor workrate. He's a model professional, too, but has a metric tonne of really weird PPMs because he's capable of playing anywhere up the middle of the field (though his attributes definitely say centre back). His 27 goals whilst at Moss seem to suggest he's played up front a fair bit in the past though. Runs with ball through centre, shoots from distance, uses outside of foot, tries long range free kicks and hits free kicks with power (but has poor free kick ability).  Perhaps he's declined as a striker as he's aged but I just don't seem him as one. He's favoured personnel and is a close personal friend of the club's captain and legend. Whatever the case, he's a solid centre back although definitely on the way out. Key mentor.

 

Stian Andersen, 21 year old Norwegian. Good solid name, that. Attribute-wise he's definitely a centre back but is the only other first team player that is accomplished at left back (and he's left-footed), tremendous physicals, especially stamina and strength. Has the Avoids Using Weaker Foot PPM and whilst I've been in charge has developed Plays Short Simple Passes. Good mentals for a 21 year old. During my time here he's already developed from third-string youngster to definite starting centre back. I like him a lot.

 

Aleksander Bjornvag - 24 year old Norwegian centre back. Marks Opponent Tightly and has good marking. Good in the air and good physicals, one of the more determined and hard working players we have and also fairly professional. Great passing, and can also play DM and MC to a certain extent. Might be a good anchor man or BWM, but isn't the starter in either position. Eye-watering £15k p/a contract for this level considering he's probably not going to start many games. He's a very good backup to have, though, and had me considering playing with a back three for a long time.

 

Christoffer Guttulsrod - 21 year old Norwegian. Plays short, simple passes and dives into tackles. Is good at tackling, aggressive and brave though, so that's not a negative. Oddly, is by far the shortest CB at 5'10 but also by far the best in the air. Could develop into a BPD with time, he's got the highest potential among our defenders too. Another player I'm happy to have here.

 

Besian Kadri can also easily play here too and honestly is probably better here than DR, but see above for why he can't. If we did play him at DC, he'd probably be the 2nd best.

 

Central Midfield

Verdict: Strong starters, iffy depth.

 

Thomas Klaussen - 33 year old Norwegian MC/AMC. Club Captain, Club Legend, Star Player. Klaussen is our go-to creative player, also Gets Crowd Going. He has declined a little since I've been here, but is still easily our best creative outlet. His only single-digit attributes when I took over were free kicks and long throws, although pace, acceleration, agility and strength have now joined them. He's probably in the latter stages of his career at this point. Has his National C license, so is as qualified as a coach as I am, but no interest in coaching yet. Nailed on to become a staff member ASAP.

 

Henrik Stokkebo - 25 year old Norwegian DM/MC. Quintessential BWM. He seems like the kind of sparkplug that we might need on occasion, with 20 aggression, 17 stamina, 16 workrate, 16 teamwork, 12 bravery and the PPMs Gets Crowd Going and Argues With Officials (as well as Shoots with Power and Dives Into Tackles - he has the ability to wear that last one though). He's by far our most committed player in terms of work rate and teamwork, as well as determination. Most mentals are good really, except composure (it's hard to keep composed when you're an utter psychopath!). Proper engine room. Stokkebo came up through the Kambo youth system and has been with Moss since 2009. My first contract negotiation in this save was to keep him around for 2 more years. I love this guy already. No stranger to a yellow card, mind.

 

Fredrik Wasenius - 21 year old Norwegian MC/AMC (AMR at a push), more of an attacking minded CM. High determination, stamina, fitness and good in the air. He's also a good free kick and corner taker. Has decent vision, technique and passing, and the Moves into Channels PPM, learned Gets Crowds Going (from being in Klaussen's mentorship group) whilst I've been here. Backup to Klaussen, ahead of Kolsvik on the depth chart just because he has more potential.

 

Hakon Kolsvik, 19 year old Norwegian MC/AMC. Creative type.  Good physicals (except his terrible balance... which is quite important) but other than the creativity-based ones, has quite poor mentals. Has a lot of potential to grow though. Has Likes To Switch Ball To Wide Areas PPM. Backup to Klaussen.

 

Markus Ellis Skontorp - 19 year old DM/MC. Decent mentals, average physicals. He's a defensive centre mid, nowhere near Stokkebo's league, but would be the obvious backup for him if necessary as he's the only other defensive-minded natural MC we have in the first team (Klaussen can do a job there, but only because he's good at everything, he's clearly a more attacking player). Not a huge amount of potential but can get it done at this level. If we do get a right back, Skontorp would lose out massively because Kadri would jump so far above him he'd be in orbit. Also suffers from his name sounding like Scunthorpe.

 

Other options (not natural, playing elsewhere): Elmi (attacking), Kadri (defensively), , Elshaug (defensive), Bjornvag (defensive).

 

Wide Midfielders

Very strong, but wafer thin.

 

Christopher Skarn - 27 year old Norwegian AMR (can play AML as IF). Elite speed and general mobility, good fitness, technique, crossing, flair.. he's a brilliant winger. He can be a little lazy and is easily knocked off the ball. Has the PPMs Knocks Ball Past Opponent and Runs With Ball Often (along with Shoots with Power), which will help with his strength/balance issue. Recently signed a new contract. One of our top players. If he doesn't lead the team in assists, the tactic's knackered.

 

Daniel Berg - 29 year old Norwegian AML (can play AMR as IF). New signing. Gets into opposition area, curls ball, cuts inside from right wing. New signing over the winter after a great trial period. Nowhere near as fast as Skarn, but not slow. Good flair, anticipation, passing, technique, dribbling, crossing. He's technically great, one of our best players. Part of me thinks he'd be better as an IF due to his long shots, composure, finishing and his PPMs, but going to try him as a winger first. 

 

Micael Alejandro Lervik - 20 year old Norwegian AML (can play AMR). Local lad trained by our rivals Fredrikstad, been here a few years now. Naturally fit and determined but has a lot of work to do. Is improving, but doesn't have tremendous potential. Backup for Berg but we're in trouble if he has to play often.

 

Jacob Skovly, 19 year old Norwegian AML (can play AMR). I promoted him from the development squad when I got here, due to his potential and the dire need for depth. Currently not first-team ready but has the potential to be. Decent pace and enough stamina to last a full game. His mentals and technicals are pretty low however. He can cross and dribble well, with good first touch and randomly awesome technique, he's also got decent flair and off the ball skills, but the rest leave something to be desired. He's the type of player who isn't 'good' yet but is decent in exactly the right areas to be useful, and may well develop. He's Fairly Sporting, which at least means he has decent professionalism, and has a brother in the youth team, which is nice.

 

Other options: Abdulmajid Abdulkadir (see strikers) is accomplished on both wings. Elmi can play left wing but then we'd need a left back.

 

Strikers

Good depth, but no real stars. The opposite of wingers in a way.

 

Magnus Fagernes, 19 year old Norwegian. 5'11. Injured with a hip injury most of last year, only played two games. Has deadly finishing (improved from 16 to 17(!!) over the winter/preseason), good dribbling, first touch, heading, composure, decent pace, great acceleration and natural fitness. A true poacher/advanced forward. He's technically pretty weak outside of scoring goals, but could be a really good number 9 at this level. Stamina isn't great though which is a worry, and can't pass. Moves into channels, which is good. Dives into tackles, which is horrific with 3 tackling and 15 aggression.

 

Thomas Klemetsen Jakobsen - 21 year old Norwegian, 6'0. Can also play AMC. Our leading scorer last year with 6 (from 12 shots), which... yeah. He's a Viking youth product, which endears him to me. Is pretty average currently but has good potential and is pacey without being weak. Deadly from the penalty spot, and a decent finisher. If he could learn to pass he'd be a good DLF, so we're going to play him there. Hopefully he can strike up a good partnership with Fagernes, though it won't be a very physically imposing partnership.

 

Abdulmajid Abdulkadir - 20 year old Somali-Nigerian. Let's call him Abs, eh? Signed him to a new contract. Can play on the wings, and his finishing is sub-par (which is probably why he can play on the wings), but he's got good physicals, average mentals and excellent passing - one of the better passers on the team. At 6'2 he's not short, and isn't bad in the air. He could develop into a decent number 10 type. Would be interesting to see which partnership with Fagernes sticks, Abs who can't shoot, or TKJ who can't pass.

 

 

2nd Team

We don't have a true second team; they have no dedicated staff and no fixtures other than the odd friendly, but for organisational purposes I like to put the "not ready for the first team but too old for the U19s" players in the B team so I can keep track of them. I usually have the 2nd team included in the first team's selection screen so it's not like they get forgotten about..

 

Mikkel Holfjord - 19 year old Norwegian right back. Definitely not ready for the first team (if he was close, he'd probably start!), but has potential. Stamina and Strength are poor but other physicals are decent, technicals are rudimentary but improving, mentals are a disaster zone. Currently out on loan at Skedsmo who're in the depths of non-league.

 

Jonas Skovly - 20 year old center back. Can't get in the team but wasn't able to loan him out before the window closed. Non-contract. Good physicals, really bad everything else (except anticipation, concentration, decisions and positioning, arguably the most important ones for a CB). Can tackle and mark decently, good heading, but several 1s in other technicals. Brother of winger Jacob.

 

Lukas Thorsen Hall, Tobias Evjenn, Oliver Midtgard, Thomas Henriksen - 19/20 year old strikers. Basically all the same, which I don't mean to sound as negative as it does. Only Henriksen has a contract. These guys have good potential so I've kept them around, but are far below the first team level. Evjenn is maybe more creative than the others, but they're all basically poacher types waiting to develop in other areas.

 

U19s

Not going to go into too much detail with these guys just yet, if any of them break through I'll obviously let you know, but with our Assistant and Head of Youth being... lacklustre, I don't hold much confidence in their predictions. Those with wages are on youth contracts, those without are on non-contracts because they wouldn't sign youth contracts for some reason. Annoyingly, the three closest to first team readiness play in really deep positions but it's nice to have a third choice goalkeeper.

 

Tommy Christiansen - 16 year old youth intake Goalkeeper. 6'4. Great reflexes, decent goalkeeping stats for a 16 year old, might be worth keeping an eye on, but is sadly unambitious.

Sebastian Andresen - 17 year old, real player not youth intake. Centre back, can play fullback but probably shouldn't. Great determination. Might feature at some point in the next few years. Brother of Aleksander.

Anders Ytterhaug - 16 year old youth intake DC/DM. Looks promising, and is destroying the youth league. Good determination, tackling needs work but he's 16.

 

Next: Club Vision, Tactics and Pre-Season

[[FM21] A Nordic Adventure [Journeyman, starting at Moss FK]]

Welcome To Moss

There appears to be an electric vehicle recharging station in midfield... Interesting interpretation of "engine room".

 

Moss is a city approximately 50 minutes' drive south of Oslo in south eastern Norway, quite near the Swedish border. The name "Moss" is thought to be derived from the old Norse for "divide" or "split". With a population of circa 37,000 people, the city is the 11th largest in Norway and roughly equivalent in population to Salisbury or Stirling in Britain. A pretty industrial city, known for shipping and the ironworks historically, and also paper mills. Delightfully, a Norwegian saying "as trustworthy as the hay scale at Moss" hints at a rather dubious past.

 

Moss FK used to be a reasonably big club back in the 80s and 90s, winning the top tier in 1987 for the only time in their history. They've been a bit of a yo-yo team since that, and following relegation from the Eliteserien in 2002 have sunk like a stone, including a year in the fourth tier in 2016. Since coming back up to the third tier, they've done little better than mid-table. The finances are a mess and they're now semi-professional. The facilities are adequate but nothing special. though the 10,000 capacity (2,500 seated) Mellos Stadion near the city centre is an asset (though not one the club owns). The stadium itself is a fairly basic affair, owned by the local authority and coming complete with athletics track around the perimeter. From what I can tell it has one main grandstand, with terraces around the remainder of the pitch. In real life there are plans to convert it into an 8,000 capacity all-seater stadium with no terraces, including moving the athletics track to a different venue, but I'm not sure if this is reflected in FM.

 

The current 10,000 capacity is good for second in our current division (behind Valerenga 2, who are cheating by using an Eliteserien ground). The renovation to 8,000 all-seater would still be second in the league though, as third place Hodd only has 4k capacity. In fact, if we get promoted to OBOS-ligaen, we'd have the fourth biggest stadium there, too - it'd be solidly middle of the pack in the Eliteserien. The stadium, then, is a holdover from the team's past success and a reminder of former glory.

 

We have two affiliate clubs in the lower leagues, Kambo and Rygge (Rygge begin the game as the senior affiliate, but I renegotiated that because we're a bigger team, this might've been a data error). Both of these teams are so local they're essentially suburbs of the city of Moss - Ryge in fact was merged into the Moss metropolitan area in January 2020 as it happens.

 

Local rivals are nearby Fredrikstad (who were leading our division when I took over and ended up going up as champions) and Eliteserien side Sarpsborg 08 (who would go on to finish 4th and qualify for the UEFA Conference League in the first season). We are therefore very much the little brothers in our area.

 

Norwegian League Structure

Before we go any further, a quick overview of the league we're in, as it's a little unusual.

 

European Competition: The season runs from April until November (give or take), which presents the first of many quirks: As European competitions start, the Norwegian season is beginning to reach the home stretch. Any Norwegian teams that progress past the group stage (hah!) will be playing in Europe is what is otherwise the off-season. The last team to reach the group stage of the Champion's League was Rosenborg in 2007/08 (beating Tampere United on the way, incidentally...). Rosenborg reached the group stages quite a few times in the 1990s/2000s, but only ever progressed once (1999/2000). It's been 20 years since a Norwegian team was in the draw for the knockouts (longer actually because in those days there were two group stages - Rosenborg got destroyed in group stage two by Bayern, Real and Kiev). Norway has been fairly well represented in the Europa League group stage in recent years (again mostly Rosenborg) but again progression from it has proven elusive, it hasn't happened since Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's Molde team in 2015/16 when Fenerbache, Ajax and Celtic were dispatched, only to lose to eventual champions Sevilla in knockout rounds. 

 

Tier 1: The Eliteserien is a 16 team, 30 game league. The champion gets into the Champions League at the second qualifying stage, 2nd-4th (pos. 5th depending on cup winner) get into the UEFA Conference League. Norway's only Europa League spot goes to the league cup winner.

The 14th placed team goes into a relegation/promotion playoff, and the bottom two get relegated automatically.

In recent history the league has been dominated by Rosenborg, who's won 7 of the last 12. Since 1992, they've only failed to win 8 times, and the last time they finished outside the top 3 was 2008. In 2020, the game's first season, they finished 7th. Needless to say, their manager got sacked for this and is now Chief Scout for Viking where he used to be DoF. Rosenborg promoted their Head of Youth Development to the hot seat (spoiler: it's not going well).

 

Tier 2: OBOS-ligaen (OBOS is the sponsor, a property development company). This is another 16 team, 30 game league. The top two go up automatically, replacing the two teams automatically relegated, whilst 3rd-6th go into a playoff. The winner of the playoff then plays the 14th placed team from the Eliteserien. Winner goes/stays up.

As in the Eliteserien, 14th goes into a playoff with the next tier, and bottom two go down.

 

Tier 3: PostNord-ligaen (again, PostNord are the sponsors, a postal service).  This is the division Moss start in.
Firstly, the league is split into two divisions, the Avdeling 1 and Avdeling 2. This is similar to Conference North/South (Avdeling = group). As far as I can gather, the groups are not based on geography or anything logical, it's just like having two separate divisions in the same tier. Each group contains 14 teams. Reputation-wise, this tier is considered equivalent of the Segunda Division B in Spain, or England's League Two (but unlikely League Two, very few teams are fully professional). This tier is also the highest tier a reserve team can participate in, and only reserves from the Eliteserien teams can be promoted this far. Currently, it's home to Valerenga 2, Odds 2 and Rosenborg 2, none of which finished in the top 7 of either group (Odds were the only team not to finish bottom).

 

After 13 games, the top 7 qualify for a further group stage. The bottom 7 just... stop playing? Their season just ends. Better luck next year!

(When I took over in Moss, the league had just split in the 2020 season, which resulted in a long wait to get to play a competitive game).

The top 7 continue to play one more game against each other, carrying the league on from where they left off for a further 6 games (so they play 19 in total while the bottom 7 only play 13). The winner from each of the two groups after this stage gets automatic promotion.

The runner-up from each group play a playoff game against each other. The winner of that plays the 14th placed team from the league above, with the winner going/staying up.

There was no relegation from the third tier in 2020 (because tier 4's season was cancelled due to the pandemic) however from 2021 the bottom three teams in each group will be relegated to...
 

Tier 4: The Tipping-ligeaen. This tier is nearly identical to Tier 3 except it has six groups and it's not playable in FM, so a relegation would mean me getting sacked. The champions of each of the six groups get promoted, the bottom three from each group go down.

 

Subs in all tiers above tier 4 are 3 from 7 (tier 4 is 5 from 7).

 

Cups

The only senior cup competition in Norway is the Norwegian Championship Cup (Norgemesterskap, or NM). The culture around this cup is, or at least used to be, different to that in the UK, as the "Champions of Norway" are traditionally considered to be the cup winners, not the Eliteserien winners (though the Eliteserien winners get the Champion's League spot now, so I'm not sure how true that is these days...). There are two qualifying rounds, played in March and April. Teams in the third tier and above join in the First Round in late April, and there are 7 "proper" rounds in total, The winner gets a Europa League spot, entering in the second qualifying round. This competition wasn't played in 2020, but Viking won it in 2019 (hilariously they got relegated in the first in-game season, so will be playing in the Europa League whilst in the 2nd tier).

 

The cup winner and Eliteserien winner (or runner up if a team does the double) play in a Charity Shield style game called the Mesterfinalen (Champions Final) to start the season. The poor Mesterfinalen has had a bit of a spotty history, it was only invented in 2009, then wasn't played between 2011 and 2016, started again in 2017, was cancelled in 2019 due to the pandemic... better luck in 2021! (It was played in 2021. Tier 2 Viking, cup winners from 2019, beat 2020 Eliteserien champions Kristiansund 1-0).

Needleess to say, in 3 of the 4 years it was played prior to the start of the game, Rosenborg won it (Stabaek won the first one).

 

Next: Enough boring history, let's meet your 2021 Moss FK team!

[[FM21] A Nordic Adventure [Journeyman, starting at Moss FK]]

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Stian Hjalvorsen From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia   Stian Sander Hjalvorsen (born 15 March 1986) is a Norwegian professional football coach and former player. He is currently the manager of Norwegian 2. divisjon side Moss FK. In his playing career, he played centre back, and whilst never a highly regarded prospect was set to have a decent career before injuries ended it early. A product of the Viking FK youth system  in his home city of Stavanger, Hjalvorsen played mostly in the Norwegian 1. divisjon for Viking 2, Moss and Tromsdalen. Playing Career After an ACL injury in 2007 caused him to miss most of the 2008 season, he was given his first chance at a top flight club when Tampere United of the Finnish Veikkausliiga signed the young Norwegian. However, he only managed five games for the mid-table outfit (who would soon be embroiled in a match-fixing scandal[1]). before tearing his ACL a second time, effectively ending his career. After a few years out of football rehabbing his knee, Hjalvorsen did attempt a comeback with amateur Norwegian side Rygge (an affiliate of his old club Moss) but was not able to trust his knee enough to put in the kind of performances he was happy with[2] and decided to retire as a player. Rygge allowed him to join their youth coaching staff and, finding that his passion for the game had not been hampered by the injuries after all, he relished the role and began studying for his National C license. He left Rygge for Kambo (another amateur side local to Moss), before getting his first professional youth coaching job at Flint Tonsberg AIL in 2017. Flint, a multi-sport club better known for its women's professional Handball team, appointed Hjalvorsen as a first team coach in 2017 and it was then that he began studying for his National B license whilst helping the team achieve promotion back to the Norwegian fourth tier in 2018. After gaining his National A license he was made assistant manager in 2019, however he left the club at the end of the same season when new manager John-Arne Riise appointed his own backroom staff. Coaching Career On 7 November 2020, after the conclusion of a disappointing 2020 season in which Moss struggled to an 11th place finish, Moss FK fired Marijo Jovic and appointed Hjalvorsen as manager, citing the club's financial trouble and his previous connection to the club as their reasoning for not appointing someone more experienced. This was Stian's first professional management role.

Hjalvorsen in the Flint dressing room pre-game, 2017. Personal Information Full Name: Stian Sander Hjalvorsen Date of birth: 15 March 1986 (age 34) Place of birth: Stavanger, Norway Height: 1.98m (6ft 6in) Playing Position: Defender   Club Information Current Team: Moss FK (manager)   Youth Career 1998-2005    Viking FK Senior Career Years             Team  Apps (Gls) Tier 2005-2006 Viking 2 2 (0) 2 2005 Moss (loan) 10 (0) 2 2005 Tromsdalen (loan)  12 (1) 3 2006 Tromsdalen (loan)  14 (1) 2 2006 Moss (loan)  7 (0) 2 2006-2008 Moss  44 (3) 2 2009 Tampere United 5 (0) 1 (Finland) Coaching Career 2011             Rygge (amateur youth coach) 2012-2013    Kambo (amateur youth coach) 2013-2015    Flint Tonsberg (youth coach) 2016-2018    Flint Tonsberg (senior coach) 2018-2019    Flint Tonsberg (assistant manager) 2020 -           Moss FK (manager)

 

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Stian's Ambitions

In a recent interview with local newspaper Moss Dagblad, Stian gave some insight into what he hopes to accomplish in his managerial career:

• Secure the financial future of Moss FK.
• Win the championship of every nordic league (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland).
• Win a Europa League, maybe even a Champion's League.
• Help as many young players to progress as possible, including hopefully nurturing a globally-recognised superstar (winner of a World Player award like Ballon d'or or FIFPro Player of the Year).

 

Stian also mentioned he'd jump at the opportunity to manage his childhood team Viking FK, or Tampere United who gave him his first chance in a top division.

 

 

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OOC Game Stuff

Leagues loaded:

Playable: all default leagues in Norway (game start), Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Iceland.

View-Only: All leagues in England, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands.

 

The our man Stian is a Norwegian former Professional Footballer (local level) with a National A license.

(This screenshot was taken mid-way through the first season because I forgot earlier. No huge changes, but Attacking, Defending and both Knowledges have increased by 1). 
 

I've used the in-game editor to edit languages and favoured clubs but won't be using it for anything else.

Favourite Clubs: 

Viking FK 100 (Supporter)

Moss FK 69 (Player)

Flint Tonsberg AIL 40 (Backroom Staff)

Tampere United 40 (Player) (note: Tampere are currently in the 4th tier, which is unplayable, but it's one only division below the playable leagues so there's a decent chance they'll pop up at some point).

 

This will be a journeyman save, I'm not necessarily going to win the title with Moss. I'm going to be playing as realistically as I can, so if I get an offer from a bigger club offering more money, I'm probably going to take it if it makes sense in the context of my career. If Viking or Tampere offer me a job, I'm almost certainly taking it (unless I'm already at one of them with unfinished business)

 

In terms of scouting, a few additional rules. Most are fairly common around here:
- I can't use the player search screen at all. Anyone I sign must be found by my scouts.
- No poaching wonderkids on youth intake day or anything like that.
- Developing youth will be a focus, but this won't be an "academy only" save or anything like that.
- Whilst I'm semi-professional, I can't sign anyone who isn't based in the local area. I define "local area" as within an hour's drive of the stadium, and I define "based in" as hometown or previous club. I don't stick 100% rigidly to this, but if there's a player who lives in Stavanger and last played for Viking, I'm not signing him to Moss on the other side of the country for £50 a week. He'd need to find a place to live, a place to work... it just wouldn't happen. If I can pay him a decent wage, then sure. Basically it's just a common sense approach: "based on where this guy is from, and where his last club was, would he realistically want to come and play here for the money I'm paying him?". Obviously when I'm a professional club and swimming in money, these limits go away. This "rule" prevents me from just hoovering up all the best lower league players and storming up the divisions (it's more relevant in the conference north/south, to be honest, as it's more obvious who the best players are in the more played-in leagues, but I like applying it wherever I go).

 

- I won't be using the staff search either, all staff hired will either be (in order of preference):

-- Former players at the club.

-- Staff/players I've worked with before.

-- Recruited via advertising for the job.

 

- I will be strictly adhering to the club vision. If they say use the youth system, I'm going to. If they want high profile signings, then high profile they shall have. Anything that's 'Required' will be law, anything that's 'Desired' I'll have to have a good reason for breaking. Anything 'preferred' or 'favoured' will be kept in mind. Obviously, as I progress and get new jobs/sign new contracts I'll look to mould the vision to match my own preferences but the vision I end up agreeing to I'll try to stick to as much as possible.

 

The reason for the Viking history, and the somewhat random and shoe-horned in Tampere United excursion, is that my two favourite FM saves of all time were with those clubs. Building Viking into a CM01/02 powerhouse was great fun, and in a later game with Tampere (maybe 03/04? It was before they became repeat champions in 06 and 07 but after my Viking save. I remember a random Aussie or New Zealander being in the squad and finding it super weird) I fell in love with them too and actually ended up attending a game a few years later (I didn't go to Finland JUST for that, but went a fairly significant distance out of my way whilst there! They got pumped 4-1 by MyPa, I don't think I'm allowed back). The Tampere save was around the time I started getting into FM stories and career updates and I researched the city itself and fell in love because it was incredibly beautiful. Moss is actually fairly similar. Maybe everywhere in coastal Scandinavia is...

 

I should mention at this juncture that I'm not Norwegian, I'm not even all that familiar with nordic football in real life. Just a... whatever the Scandi version of a weeabo is I guess...

 

Anyway, that's enough waffle for now. 

I hope this formatting works, by the way, it took bloody ages.

 

[[FM21] Not A Spenny Will Be Spent! - Journeyman Youth Only Save]

Didn't seem like you were at the Owls for ten minutes before leaving haha. Fancied the challenge of keeping Wolves in the Prem, or didn't think you could go up with Wednesday?

Nice to see Rovers in the Championship too, albeit only a point above relegation!

[[FM20] From Sheffield to South Africa]

Been binge-reading this over the last few days, loved it all. Love your writing style 

Which do you hate more I wonder? Cups, The FA, or Spurs? :P

[[FM21] Bolton Wanderers - "The Price of Football"]

Ah, I see. I didn't realise you were planning to replace them. Yeah, that would indeed end up costing more!

 

I'm at Moss in Norway currently. They took longer to fall and didn't have as far to go but they've been pretty ruined over the last 20 years or so. It's a journeyman so I'm not necessarily planning to stay here but it's interesting for sure.

[[FM21] Bolton Wanderers - "The Price of Football"]

On 07/12/2020 at 04:42, FM_Prospect said:

I wont be terminating any staff contracts to save money on termination fees as that's just wasting more money we don't have!

Enjoying the updates, I've always been wanting to try a save with a club massively in debt (I sort of am at the moment by accident, might do a thread on it, bit nowhere near Bolton levels of debt!).

One thing though about the above quote, mutual terminations still save you money overall. Let's say a guy is making £20k a year but agrees to mutually terminate for £15k, you still save £5k overall except you pay it all at once. So depending on the savings you make it could be worth doing. In the face of a £34m shortfall though, probably not. 😂

[[FM21] Not A Spenny Will Be Spent! - Journeyman Youth Only Save]

Normally I'm put off a save where the team punches ridiculously far above their weight in the first season but this is oddly compelling...

I've never tried Norn Iron, but there seems to be more cup games than league games almost haha, crazy. I'm guessing the Champions Cup is the one actually worth winning and the rest are cardboard cups covered in tinfoil?

 

Also the save should now be called "you'll never Lin anything with kids", obvs

[[FM21] Bringing glory to Cornish football. The City of Truro won't be running out of steam!]

Great start, was a shame last year when I couldn't do my traditional Truro save haha, glad they're back now. They seem to be in good hands too!

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Just bumping this one, as I'm about to start teaching a youngster PPMs and want to make sure I teach him the right ones. I have a player that I feel will make a very good inside forward (basically he's a poacher type, but I want him to start wide and make diagonal runs behind the defense). Is it the "moves into channels" or the "cuts inside" PPM I should go for?

Plays One-Twos only needs one player. It's more about the running than the return pass. He'll play a pass to B, run into space, receive the ball from B, then look to play another pass, to B or to C or D or whoever is available at the time, and carry on from there. I guess if A and B both have it, you could end up with a sweet little one-two lasting half way down the pitch. Or you could end up with a confused mess...

Runs Into Channels means the same thing for any player. It just means he'll run into space and look to receive the ball regardless of what you've asked him to do out wide in individual instructions. Where he's playing on the pitch will dictate (or tends to, in my experience) which channels he runs into. A wide player is more likely to find space either side of the fullback, for instance, while a central player will find space between centrebacks more often. It's most useful for inside forwards, AFs and Poachers, I reckon.

Not sure about the other questions so I'll leave them for others.

The 'stops play' PPM, what does it do? I mean in practice. Is it the same as 'dwells on ball'? There's a player I'm interested in who has this and the 'dictates tempo' PPM, should I expect him to be a player who gets caught in possession a lot?

Dwells on Ball is entirely negative. It means he'll hesitate and give himself time to think (time he may not have), before deciding what to do with it, even if he has few good options or the 'correct' decision is obvious. DoB should be unlearned as soon as possible.

Stops Play, however, can be a good thing. It's useful for players who you want to hold up the ball. If you play slow tempo football, he'll be useful for holding it up and picking out options (he'll need good strength though, and obviously good decisions and passing if he's a playmaker). If you play quick tempo, tiki-taka style football he'll be a hindrance though.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Training/Attribute progress has a progressive scale[...]

Thanks a lot, massively helpful post.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

A tutor needs to:

- Have a higher reputation than the prospective tutee (actual reputation score, not just the word description used. They might both be National rep for instance, but it won't work if the tutee is actually higher than the tutor, and there's no way to tell a player's actual reputation score in-game).

- Be able to play at awkward or better in a role where the tutee is accomplished or better.

- The tutee must have a squad status of Rotation or lower, and the tutor must be higher than the tutee.

- The tutor has to be older than the tutee, and at least 23 unless he's the club captain.

Also, the tutor can't be currently training a preferred move, as it takes too much time.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

I have a question:

The arrows on the training and attributes screen, that indicates a player has improved or declined in a given attribute. What do they actually mean? What does the game use as a 'baseline' for those arrows? For example, is it "better than he was at the start of the game"? Or "better than he was at the start of the season"? Or does it just mean "is improving" in general; like, not necessarily quantifiably better at it, but working well in training.

I've noticed most attribute arrows go orange or red when a player is injured, which is pretty obviously because he's not training at all. Does that mean he's actually getting definably worse at those things, or just that he's not applying himself as well as he could be in those areas (due to not applying himself at all because he's injured)?

Also, one further question: What relationship does a silver star have with a gold one? For instance, say I have two players:

Player A is 19 and has 3 golden stars of current ability and 4.5 of PA.

Player B is 16 and has 4 silver stars of CA and 4 of PA.

Let's assume for the moment that my AssMan is a psychic and knows the CA and PA of both players exactly. Let's also assume that I'm playing in the highest division in my country.

Does this mean that B is technically a better player than A right now, but due to his age shouldn't play regular first team football?

Or does it mean that because B is only 16, he's only graded against youth team players, so the scale used is different and shouldn't be compared to A at all. He's just "really good compared to all the other youth players and could become a first team regular in the future". Whereas A is "just about good enough for the first team now, and could become a star for us in the future".

Out of the two, should I be giving B some cup appearances and stuff, or sending him on loan, while A is the regular in this position? Or should I be leaving B in the U19s?