Shippy
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Posts posted by Shippy
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Curious what you think to this system. Currently struggling through my first season with Man Utd with a 433 but want to switch to a 4231 for the new season.
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12 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:
So, just got done with my first season. Transfers disabled, so no incomings. We still feel a bit strong in-game, so I decided to play a more defensive style, starting with a 4-2-3-1 with two DMs who just shielded the defense. Focusing on absolutely parking the bus against big teams and ceding possession against most of the teams, while trying to catch them on the counter. It probably was more effective than I planned, as we beat City 4-1 with a 0.83 xG(Their first loss of the season), and in general seemed to hit teams too hard and fast for them to do anything. We conceded a few, but nothing too crazy and only two teams managed more than two against us(Real Madrid and Liverpool).
I largely thought I was battling for third or fourth place, with us battling Liverpool who couldn't stop drawing games, while Arsenal were 6 points ahead battling it out with City. While we then clicked into gear, Arsenal then lost 3 of their last 6, falling to pieces at the end(as expected) and a comprehensive victory over Liverpool in the last game secured us second place in what was probably a really good run.
Bruno(17), Rashford(21) and Hojlund(16) all managing a really good goal count which contributed to our 100 goal tally.
Getting Madrid in the Round of 16 was unlucky and we just couldn't match them at home, but we somehow motored our way to an FA Cup win. The 1-0 against City was a game I should never have one, but it was a treat to steal the match from City(Again!)
In terms of transfers, I made one out and one in. Unfortunately, I had it with Varane earlier in the season who cost us a game with a terrible mistake then had repeated mishaps in the coming games. I had enough and used the Saudi interest to send him off for a handy 60m. Could have got more, but thought maybe that would be a bit unrealistic. Since we were playing a deeper defensive line, Maguire was pretty handy and popped in with a few goals from set pieces as well.
On the other side, Martial did not feature at all, and I needed a backup, so Toney came in as his ban was up for a pricey but necessary 43 mil. Not really got going yet, but I'm sure he'll be handy.
Onto the new season, and with Van De Beek, Martial and Sancho all not featuring in a single game for me, I have done my best to get rid. So far, we've been rid of:
Van De Beek: 12m
Hannibal: 15m
Martial: 0(Completing removing his wage was worth)
Sancho: Loan, but with mandatory 60m purchase
Heaton: Retired
Evans: FreeI still plan to get rid of Dalot, as he never feature much for me either. The freed wages getting Sancho, Martial and Van De Beek out is so much more refreshing to see.
Despite interesting in their services from Saudi clubs, I decided that I wanted to keep Bruno and Casemiro(despite poor performances), as it would be too much to fix in one window. Bruno is also part of the core players that I will never sell until they've past it. I'll probably give him a contract to lock that down soon. Bruno, Martinez and Shaw make up that core.
On the In side, I probably did more than I wanted, but this United side is in disarray. It's still a solid window, but I usually draw a line at 4 first team players max. So far we've brought in:
Alex McCarthy: Free(Replacement for Heaton)
Michael Kayode: 32m(Too cheap to ignore, and won every U21 award in Italy, looks a great prospect. Also, hence selling Dalot)
Ousmane Diomande: 53m(Wasn't my first choice, but getting him below the release clause looked great business)
Valentin Barco: 8.5m(Signed him because he actually looks a top quality midfielder if he could be a little less one-footed)
Ismael Bennacer: 43m(Was chasing Calhanoglu and Lobotka all season, but 80m was too much for them. Bennacer is more mobile and can allow my midfield to be more dynamic. A good buffer till Mainoo develops)
Michael Olise: 35m(Release clause, replacement for Sancho. Form at Palace was worrying but will give him a go. Don't think Diallo can make it).Still need a replacement for an ageing Casemiro, but that can wait another season. Still maintaining a solid net spend of under 150m, so I'm pretty happy with that. I got a lot of players at what I think are bargains for their quality and for good wage values(For now). Freeing up an entire 1m in wages between 4 players as well showed how ridiculously overpaid our squad was in the first place as well.
All in all, a really good start, the squad looks more balanced, and I'm looking forward to giving City a greater run this season. We'll also play more on the front foot now that my midfield is temporarily complete.
Would be very interested to see the tactics for the city wins.
Ive been spanked 3 times so far in the first season 😭
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On 07/09/2023 at 07:32, Cloud9 said:
Think you just don't have the pace in your backline to run a high line, would drop it back to standard (esp w/both fullbacks roles as wingbacks). I'd consider having Bisaka sit as a FB(s) since Grimaldo is basically a winger (even more so on WB(a) and will keep him in position to address the CB speed issue.
Drop off more can be a strong choice, but I like using it w/out telling the boys to trigger press & in a formation that's more defensively resolute (4-4-2 for example). That way you can keep your defensive shape and absorb pressure.
However, w/such attacking wide players (rashford/sancho), you don't have players you can rely on to soak up pressure. I'd usually ask the wingers to mark tighter, and then set the TI to funnel the play through the center where the three midfielders are. W/out appropriate players for such a hard hitting approach, you might want to open up the width to take advantage of rashfords pace and stick him on attack. Taremi is likely too slow to lead your frontline, so you might just want to run Rashford through the middle instead. That gives you the option of bringing in a defensively responsible LW who will balance out better with Grimaldo.
Adding "pass into space" can help as well. Final note, Bruno is a quite a flair player and a bit of a liability as a BBM. IRL he's played as almost a second striker for United, offering 0 defensive contribution and lots of whining. That can be a real problem in a mid block counter, so you might consider moving to the 4-2-3-1 to give him that free role.
Thank you for the advice. I’ve since tried to go back to basics but keep some of the advice given here on this thread.
playing on Balanced mentality
Play out of defence, more expressive.
counter press
high press, more often and standard back line.
sk
wb(s) cd(d) cd(d) wb(s)
Dlp(d)
Cm(s) cm(s)
if(s) Iw(a)
Af/pf(a)
had some really good results (currently 12 unbeaten in the league) and sitting back at the top of the league. The most difficult games are the teams the park the bus!
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45 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
Of your TIs the Drop Off More stands out as it doesn't seem to tie up with the rest, unless you have your reasons that would be the first one I would remove.
I started using it towards the end of last season and it seemed to make it abit more defensively solid.
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I cannot get a consistent run of form with a 433.
Conceding a ton a shot on goal every game, teams cut through me at ease and pretty much only scoring from set pieces.
had what I thought was a decent transfer window but 3 losses from 4 games is not the start I expected.
tactic wise I’m pretty much using the “spearhead” 433 on positive, POOD, slightly narrow, counter, distribute to CB and a mid block with higher defensive line and drop off more, close down more often.
Am I missing something really obvious?!
TIA
(line up in the picture is not my actual starting 11)
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On 12/04/2023 at 12:25, kr10 said:
Hi guys - long time FM player here.
Some of you might rememeber the tactic I created for FM 21 and 22: 4-4-2, Control and Attack Space:
I decided to make another tactic this year, with the similar principles of play.
Overall Philosophy
1. Balance: I am a defense first manager. My tactics have to be balanced and defensively solid. The defensive positioning of the players, forward runs, and risk taking have to be measured and considered. No gung-ho attacking tactics that overwhelm the ME, or that are inherently imbalanced. For example, you won't see 2 attack duties on the same flank. An attacking wingback will be offset by a defensive midfielder, and so on.
2. Realism: I strive to make tactics that are realistic, meaning that it could work in real life. Again, not something that is designed to exploit the match engine, but rather a realistic, balanced tactic that incorporates real-life footballing concepts
3. Variety in possession: To me, variety in build-up and attacking play is critical. I want at least 3 different, distinct routes to goal: Across each flank, and through the center. This means setting up player roles and duties accordingly - I want a mix of patient build up and overlap, wide play, incisive central passing, and a more direct route to goal. This makes the team harder to defend against and produces a wide variety of goals.
4. Supply and demand: Loosely, I define "supply" as players on support or defend roles who are looking to drop into space and receive the ball at feet, and "demand" as the players on attacking duty who are looking to make aggressive, forward runs and demand the ball. I want each attacking player to have at least 3 sources from which they can receive the ball, and ensure that no 2 players are making attacking runs into the same space.
4. Positional Play: In my attacking patterns, I want to take advantage of all 5 verticals areas of the pitch: The 2 wide areas, 2 channels, and central region. My tactic aims to take advantage of all these zones through varied and dynamic movement
5. Compact defense: The defense should be vertically compact, not allowing the opposition team time and space between my lines. I have therefore gone for a MID block, rather than the typical high press/Geggenpressing system that win on FM
6. Win transitions: Transition (when the ball is immediately won or lost) is a critical aspect of the game, and one that I want to maximize. Having the right tactical setup (shape/roles/duties) to effectively counter and counter press is therefore critical to how I want to play
7. Dominant in possession: I view possession as a form of defense, rather than an attacking philosophy. The more you keep the ball, the less chances the opponent has to score. Therefore, the tactic should have an emphasis on building out from the back and being measured with the ball, rather than try to force it upfield with unnecessary direct and risky passes when nothing is on
With these in mind, I have done a lot of tweaking and come up with a mid-block, 3-4-2-1 that captures most of my key fundamental concepts.
1. Defensive Structure: My team is strongest in the middle zone, with 4 players vertically across the DM strata. with a CF and 2 #10s, I don't really have the shape to press high up the field, as I don't have wide attacking players. Therefore a mid-block made the most sense for me. Combined with a higher defensive line and step up more, we create a zone of vertical compression near the halfway line
2. Attacking patterns of play: I was very keen on having defined but varied attacking patterns of play that are different to one another. Play is generally channeled through the SV, AP, or supporting wingback, after which there are several routes to goal:
- Direct through ball to the Pressing Forward
- Through ball to the overlapping attacking right
- Through ball to the shadow striker making a late run
- Angled through ball from the supporting wingback to one of the attack duty players
The AP essentially has 3 players in front of him making forward runs at all times - combined with space to operate in (more on this below), he is positioned for success
3. Supply and Demand: Each attacking player has at least 3 support/defend duty player who can pass the ball to them
In addition, each attack duty player is looking to make a run into a different area of the pitch
This ensures a good mix between having passing options available, whilst at the same time maintaining vertical attacking depth. Too many players going in behind with no one to pass to, or everyone attempting to drop deep without anyone running in behind generally causes problems.
4. Utilizing space and role combinations: There are a few key combinations in the tactic that I wanted to highlight:
- Creating space for the playmaker to play: The DM(D) creates space for the AP(s) to drop into, whilst at the same time covering for the attacking wingback. It creates beautiful triangles of play between the 3, with the wingback being the "third man" or "auxiliary runner". This also creates balance by ensuring that my right side is protected by the DM being a sitter.
- The left half features a more aggressive midfielder (SV), who has more space to exploit, since the SS plays much higher up the field. To compensate for this, the WB on the left is on a support duty. The other benefit of having one wingback on support is that he can help a lot with building out from the back
- Central space: The Main CF of the team, the PF(a), has 2 players directly behind him who can slip in through balls, as well as 2 wingbacks who will cross from different positions (attacking wingback from the by-line, and supporting wingback generally from deeper). The whole team is setup to feed him, and the players who are setup to feed him will also see a lot of the ball. Your CF is going to bang in the goals.
5. Positioning Play: This setup allows you to occupy all 5 horizontal blocks: The wingbacks occupy the wide positions, the 2 #10s occupy the channels, and the CF takes up the central space. I have found that the 2 AMs are much more effective for me than traditional wide players, such as the IF/IW.
As you can see, there are very different attacking patterns through the left, center, and right. In addition, all attack duty/attack minded players are compensated by support/defend duty players to maintain overall balance, prevent the opposition from exploiting you on the counter, and create a good mix between players looking to drop deep to receive the ball (supply), versus players looking to make runs in behind (demand).
A few closing thoughts
- Defensively, this tactic is extremely solid: We conceded just 11 goals in the league (and 9 goals the year before), and only 1 goal in the entire UCL knockout stages
- Offensively, the tactic is very solid and produces some beautiful football. It might not produce as many goals as an overpowered 4231 Geggenpress, but that is not the goal here.
- A tall CF is pretty critical given the volume of crosses that will be coming in
- The CF and AP are well positioned to succeed - due to the space they have in which to operate, as well as the movement around them
- I decided to go for WCB, both on defend. They help a lot in build-up while maintaining a 3 back defensive structure which is hugely helpful in possession.
- Overall, there is a lot of variety in the tactic: A more conservative left wingback paired with a more attacking shadow striker on the left, and a more attacking left wingback paired with an AP on support on the right. This is balanced out with the DM roles, both to protect the wingbacks and in conjunction to the 2 AM roles ahead of them
- The download tactic has set pieces fully loaded, on corners especially it is quite good both offensively and defensively
That's it! Hope you enjoyed the read, and looking forward to others trying it out and sharing your feedback.
Have to say this is a beautiful tactic. I’ve never been able to get a 3 at the back formation to work well but this is amazing.
Some of the link up play is brilliant to watch.
recently started a new save with Man Utd and Weghorst has 15 goals in 12 games! 😂
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On 04/07/2023 at 18:19, Cloud9 said:
Yep, that's the general idea on passing instructions. Especially in a high tempo/direct midblock tactic it can be really nice in making sure the workman players are laying it off to the talented boys to make that line breaking pass. It gives the side a more unique style of play that opposition sides can struggle to adapt to as well.
Since Fernandes is in a non ball magnet role (amc), the passing meter changes can be particularly effective. Usually I look to pick out a handful of player I'd like to give that license to, to make your attacks less predictable. "Take more risks" can be a nice additional modifier to ask a player to pass into space. It impacts a couple of other things as well so you might need to use it a little more conservatively.
One thing to keep an eye out for: DLP(s) + BWM(d) is a great combination, but the DLP will attract the ball more than other roles as a playmaker. That's not necessarily a problem, but it can make your attacks more one dimensional. I'd just watch how it plays in the ME w/the passing changes.
Thank you replying I could not get this to work away from home. Recently switched to a 433 and tried to impose myself being the bigger team. I have been tinkering with the passing instruction and I can’t believe how much of a difference it makes to the team!
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3 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
Little follow up for when you do play a midblock:
One thing to keep in mind is that altho the AMC is on support duty, you've got a hugely offensive/creative player there roaming for the team (w/crazy offensive traits to boot). He's also a huge goal threat himself. However, he's going to offer very little defensive work, so having the system set up to do the hard yards for him makes a lot of a sense. I'm a big fan of playing w/passing meters for the entire squad on their PIs and that can help to ensure Fernandes is your primary creator.
Just the AF change is probably all you really need to get the original tactic firing on a midblock. He'll put that pressure on the backline that the PF won't, and will give Fernandes someone to play in whenever he's on the ball. If you find yourself conceding more than you'd like still: dropping the width will help (as mentioned) and flipping the WB from attack to support will stop him from trying to run the entire length of the pitch.
I have reverted back to the original tactic with some of the changes you have mentioned. Definitely noticed a change playing with the AF rather than PF! Thank you for that.
You said you like the play with the passing PIs. Do you have players with better passing ability playing more direct passes and players that aren’t so good playing shorter passes?
I never really use PIs as I’m not sure how it affects the overall tactic.
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Something abit like this?
Would you suggest a WB on support behind the IFa?
In term of TIs I just use pass into space, counter, mid block with more often closing down.
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. I’ve read so many of your comments on other topics! 😂
in regards to the AMC sometimes I use roam from position, dribble less purely because I play Bruno Fernandes there and he only has 10 dribbling.
I’ve got such good options with IW on the left so I would like to keep that one so W on support on the right with FB on attack behind him?
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It’s my first time posting here and I’m just looking for some advice on my tactic in away games. At home we perform amazing even against the likes of City and Liverpool but away from home we are terrible! Barely getting more than a handful of shots on target and conceding goals for fun. I’ve tried numerous different formations/tactics but I can’t get anything to work consistently. This is my tactic at home. Away from home I drop the mentality to cautious. Change the WB on attack to a full back on attack and go to a mid block with standard defensive line.
Any advice or tips would be much appreciated 😊
Im playing on the Switch if that makes any difference
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[FM 24.1.1] • • • MiNiMaL_FuSS - FuSSimile v1.0 || 4-1-2-2-1 • • •
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Just curious what sort of PI’s you would use. Not something I’ve really used