[Extra relegation spots on Editor]

Hi everyone

I guess this topic has already been talked about, but I was no able to find it by searching. If so, I'm sorry to repeat it.

For years, the community has been trying to implement regional divisions for a lot of nations. I think most of the nations reach a tier where the league system is splitted into regional divisions. In real life, between national and regional divisions it is often applied a rule called "dynamic relegation", where some relegation spots in the first tier regional division depend on which teams are relegated from the last national division. To explain myself, lets imagine a nation where:

1. National Division (last tier before regional divisions): 3 relegations.
2. 1st tier Regional Division (splitted into 3 local regions A, B and C).

Dynamic relegation is designed to keep the same amout of teams in each group of the regional division. If the 3 relegated teams from national division are from local region A, this group must have extra relegations.

For years, the community has been creating artificial systems to force FM to do so:

But still has some disadvantages when reserve teams are added to the equation.

If there was an option to check at leagues so it is posible "force extra relegations to match an exact number of teams", it would be awesome.

I hope I explained myself.

Thank you!

 

[Flexible Format Rules vs Fixed Format Rules]

As I expected this topic to be already discussed, I search this question in previous threads but I (surprinsingly) could not find it.

What are the differences between Flexible Format Rules and Fixed Format Rules?

I've already spent a year trying to figure it out and I could not find the answer, because I found some implications but not enough to know when to use one or another. When relegations and promotions do not match, the flexible format rules don't fix this issue (by adding extra promotions/relegations), so what's the point?

Thank you!

[Dynamic relegation thread]

It shouldn't change because in real life the first season is going to be a transitional one, in which each regional group has a specific number of teams. Fixed "standard" relegations for every single group depend on the number of teams in that specific group because next season is going to have 16 teams per group.

The game has moved (this is what I don't undertand why) some teams to another group that doesn't fit regional criteria. In the end my groups number of teams does not match with the reality and thus relegations are not well applied.

Still, this is not a problem of dynamic relegation but that's why I cannot send you the file, because right now it is not working as it should.

What is driving me crazy is that yesterday everything was working as expected, that's why I shared my experience.

[Dynamic relegation thread]

hace 2 minutos, krlenjushka dijo:

This can be done. I changed number of teams per season in regional leagues with dynamic relegation system.

I know, yesterday I made it work. But since my calculations where made individually for each group (depending on its real life teams), if the group size changes (that's the point, it shouldn't have) this will not work properly.

[Dynamic relegation thread]

Context: in real life Spanish 3rd Federation Division groups are regional, and for the 2021-22 season some groups have more than 16 teams (up to 21). Next season they are supposed to return to normality and adjust each group to 16 teams by relegating extra teams in those groups that require it. Additionally extra relegations (this is where dynamic relegation takes place) will be added when teams of the regions are relegated from 2nd Federation Division.

hace 14 minutos, krlenjushka dijo:

Can you upload your file. I wanna take a look and test it.

I'd like to, but apparently something quite strange happened today and it is not working as it did yesterday: I had each group with the real number of teams and today I found that the game has redistribuited teams trying to equally allocate them, despite regional divisions.

I think it might be due to some cache issues (I've been working in the same file without shutting down the computer for three days, only using sleeping mode), but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Dynamic relegation thread]

hace 12 horas, krlenjushka dijo:

This is great news. Many guys had problem with that late force relegation.  Have you tested this? Force relegation date is moved earlier or dynamic relegation is moved to later date?

I tested it at my own Spanish Rules System and after marking that option in various stages (promotion playoffs) I moved the force relegation date to be earlier. Dynamic relegation stage date remained the same.

I guess you can alternatively add this late season stages at Dynamic Relegation Requirements, so this stage will not start until those stages have finished.

[Dynamic relegation thread]

I have been working in a dynamic relegation system in Spain based in this topic but I made some changes taking advantage of regional divisions included in recent FM games, that allowed me to skip the Secondary Divisions. I will show you guys how I did it someday, I promiss.

Anyway, I'd like to help with these B teams that caused lot of issues when they are force-relegated. I found that the force relegations are applied when the season ends. This date is calculated by checking the finish date of all stages of all active competitions. The last date found is going to be the last day of competitions season (not to be confused with season update date). We will call this date "End of Competitions".

This means that force-relegations are not going to be taking into account until the date is reached, so it is very likely that our dynamic relegation system is processed before the season ends. To avoid this, I found that you can mark "Don't include stage for overall club end of season date" in every single stage (Stage > General > State Flags). This option will force the game to skip this stage when calculating our End of Competitions date, so the force-relegations will be taken into account before this stage finish. I found useful to mark this option in late season stages (i.e. promotion playoffs) whose result do not generate further force-relegations.

I hope this may help you.

[Child Competition/Regional Rules]

En 13/1/2021 a las 10:22, krlenjushka dijo:

For that you need to set "use regional divisions to organize teams".

Its located under every parent competition settings.

If you wanna use regional divisions but soft version -its version where regional divisions are used but in case where some league is over numbered - game will simply move 1 team to another region in order to fix that problem. This is case when this option is not activated.

If you wanna use hard version of regional division rules - you need to activate that option and thick confirmation box.

In this case game will force all clubs to their divisions.  You need to have min/max number of teams set because leagues must be with variable number of teams / second option is to use my dynamic relegation system.

If you wanna use city boundaries you should activate this option but untick confirmation box.

This all depends of real life rules in your country.

 

 

I dont know why those options are added. Never tested this.

I'm trying out to fully understand the regional rules before I get into the Spanish Regional Football Leagues in FM 21. So I created a test with a fictional irish league system to test all these rules. In my test, I imagined there are 3 regions. This is what I want to recreate:

All tiers start with 10 teams per group.

• 3rd tier is divided into two geographical groups. I already managed to set preferences of region → group, but it's OK if regions are mixed between groups since there are 3 regions and 2 groups. There is no problem here.
• 4th tier is divided in regional groups, made out of 10 teams (no more, no less). One group per region. As you recommended (thank you) I created a Dynamic Relegation System, so I'm relegating as many teams as neccesary to have 10 teams per group. To allocate teams in the correct region, I added Regional Divisions for all teams for tiers 4 and 5. This tier works properly as well.
• 5th tier is the bottom tier. It is the only tier there I let groups be formed by 4 to 16 teams, since I want these leagues to "gather" the remaining teams. As you mention, these groups may have different number of teams, but when testing rules I find all groups have 10 teams and some teams are moved to the wrong regional division (even

I configured promotions and relegations to parent divisions, so the parent division allocates teams by regional preferences. I know I could solve this particular issue by setting 4A to relegate to 5A and so on, but I prefer to keep 4A, B and C to relegate to 5, and let the parent competition decide using Regional Divisions, so I can subdivide a 5th tier into two sub-regions.

I've already checked:

• In Ireland rules, I've already set in "Required Teams" 4 to 16 teams for 5th tier divisions.
• In league stage (unique stage) in 5th tier child competitions, I've already set 4-16 min/max teams.
• In 5th tier parent competition I checked "Use Regional Divisions to organize teams", as well as trying to check and uncheck the options in Child Competitions/Regional Rules tab. None of the combinations seem to work for me.

Any suggests? Thank you! 

 

EDIT: I've already found the problem. In 5th tier child divisions I forgot to change the Min/Max teams required in Requirements Tab (I've never changed manually this tab), so the game was forcing some teams to fill gaps. Thank you anyway!