[FM24]

19 hours ago, autohoratio said:

Stadiums are still as cornerless as ever, it seems

It's supposed to be Vicarage road, but in real life it only has a single 2 tier stand (not as tall as in-game either) on one side, the rest are single tier and there should be a stand in one of the corners

 

 

Although FM24 looks like a big step forward compared to the last 6 versions of the game, it still doesn't look better than what we had with FM17.  Below are a selection of screenshots from my current FM17 save (yes I'm still playing that version!).

I hope the images SI released for FM24 are still work in progress as it'll be a little disheartening if they persist with those generic cornerless stadiums they introduced with FM18.

FM17 had a very large selection of stadiums, we need those back imo (or a stadium editor so we can create them ourselves).

 

FM17 in all its glory.....

 

[FM23 - In match stadiums?]

1 hour ago, Choi seung won said:

I wish Miles didn't care about this useless 3d manager's face, but only about the stadium.

If you don't like that, I'd like to at least make a stadium editor.

Again, customizing the manager's appearance is a really, really, really useless feature.

 

Sadly, this is where we're at.  If SI are proud of this facegen technology (which looks garbage btw), then its no wonder the 3d match graphics and Stadums aren't on their radar.  They're more interested in trivial things like wrist watches, fancy suits, and rings for your avatar that can barely even be seen in the game, than the match day experience itself, which is actually the pinnacle of everything we do as mangers during a week leading up to the match.  The match day is where everything accumulates, where we see our tactics play out, where we see our new signings perform, where we see our teams achieve glory or succumb to relegation.  They've nailed the ME in FM23, it looks excellent, but they've yet again framed it in garbage.  There is no more immersion because it plays out in such a dull and uninspiring background, unlike FM17 which was so much more immersive on that front.

It's almost like they spent so much time getting the ME into the really good state it's in now and adding useless trivialities like the above, that they neglected the part of the whole FM experience that actually shows the ME off and instead we have worse graphics than those we had 6 years ago, with matches playing out in stadiums that look like an intern knocked up in during his lunch hour using MS paint back in FM18.  This excellent ME deserves a far better presentation / arena than what it's got.  I hope SI make the whole match day experience a proper headline feature next year.  Its way overdue,

[FM23 - In match stadiums?]

FM17 had dozens and dozens of different varieties of stadiums, and all with a their own 'identity' depending on where in the world you were managing.   All of them were taken away for FM18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and now 23.

Here's a few more.

[FM23 - In match stadiums?]

A stadium editor would be a headline feature worthy of the name "headline feature!  Heck, SI could even release it as a paid for DLC and it'd still be massively popular imo.  But failing that, the very least they could do is give us back the wealth of different stadiums we had back in Fm17.  After 17 they replaced them all with the garbage looking generic ones we've had for the past 6 years.

Every time this kind of topic comes up, I'll continue to post screenshots of what we once had... for nostalgia. and to show new players to FM (and SI) how great this game once looked and how a growing number of players wish it'd look like again someday..

 

A small selection of FM17 Stadiums in all their glory.  Please bring them back SI, ... we've been waiting 6 years now.

 

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

10 minutes ago, el_manayer said:

This looks fantastic, look at those stadiums, I love them. I love the screenshot taken near the grass, it looks just so good and natural for a small team stadium. That helps the immersion immensely. I mean, graphics are far from realistic/Fifa like, but I think everyone would be happy if the game still looked like that Today but with the recent updates in player movements etc, and we had it 6 years ago

Yep, small stadiums were really small, many grassroots clubs never even had stands, some just looked like a field with a fence or wall surrounding it.  I don't think we get that now in the current FMs, I think every stadium looks like it can hold a minimum of 5000 people.  No immersion at all if you're managing a club from the Northern League.

 

One other thing I miss is the wealth of camera angles we once had.   They were all removed in FM18 and still haven't been put back.  

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

21 minutes ago, DMaster2 said:

It's honestly embarassing to show graphics that would be barely acceptable 10 years ago and doing nothing about it for years

The thing is though, the graphics on FM were pretty good at one point.  They don't need to be on par with FIFA imho, not even a 10-year old FIFIA.  FM17 was beautiful, especially its lighting, pitches, and the stadium variety we had.  I make no apologies for posting more screenshots from my old FM17 save.  I miss those 3D graphics so much, I just wish SI would explain what was gained in FM18 by stripping away the beautiful looking game we had prior to that edition and the 5 editions that followed,

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

57 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I cant believe all of these graphics discussions. The same ones were happening 5 years ago complaning about graphics and pulling up specs comparing it to other games. Its like nothing has changed. Thats crazy. And sad. 

It's even more crazy and sad when you realise the graphics 5 years ago where much better than what they are now.  FM17 looks like it was done by a completely different studio to the 5 versions that followed it.

I can't recall any other game from any genre where its graphics took a huge step backwards from one version to the next - that being FM17 to FM18 - and then still haven't gotten back to how good they were 5 versions later.

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

To this in FM18 and the versions that followed...

 

 

 

 

 

One of the things that is also overlooked is how the aesthetics and environments in FM17 made you feel like you were managing a club in different places around the world.  The stadium variety we had allowed this, as well as the lighting, which changed depending on what time of the day the game kicked off.  If you look at the stadium variety in 18 - 22, it's not the same.  The screenshots above show this, i.e. a match played in Stoke's stadium looks identical to a match played in the Argentinian lower leagues.  Whereas the screenshots from my FM17 save show the distinct variety in stadiums from around the world, with the lighting and pitches adding to it too.  It gave off a whole other vibe to the matchday experiences compared to the blandness of FM18 and onwards.

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

12 hours ago, 2feet said:

They completely changed the animation system. Thats a massive improvement (and a big job I would imagine). This change allows FM greater possibilities for the future with what players can do and probably took them years.

Look at the footage in the headline video, the player movements have taken another step forward since FM 22, it's unbelievable how realistic it is becoming (now with ball bobbling first touches and volleys), and the movements and passes that really look like a real game.

 

There's no denying the animation system in 3D has improved a lot since the FM17 days, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the actual downgraded look that the rest of the 3D match day experience underwent after 17.  For example, there's no logical reason why the varied and great looking pitches, the stadiums, and the stadium variety, along with the numerous match camera angles we had and the overall lighting that FM17 excelled at should be stripped out for improved player animations that came in later versions.  I'd love SI to explain what happened between FM17 and 18, and the 5 versions that followed (but I won't hold my breath as they rarely comment on anything 3D matchday experience related in anycase).

Someone on this thread mentioned that it was probably a case of SI getting rid of their art department after FM17 and outsourcing the graphics.  That sounds more plausible, as FM17 was clearly done by artists who took pride in their work. Its hard to say the same about every version that came after.

We went from this in FM17...

 

 

 

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

No offence, but if we wanted nothing more than 2D being gone, it would be gone.

We look at the percentage of players using the different modes and prioritise work based on that. As a reminder, Miles tweeted a few years back 3D usage was over 85% and can assure you that figure hasn't gone down since. 

 

If 85% of the players use 3D (and thus something you prioritise) then why is it overlooked and barely gets any love?  Can you also explain why FM17 looked far better than the 5 (and possibly now 6) versions that came after it?  17 had beautiful graphics and lighting, the best-looking pitches and stadiums, more stadium variety, and a wealth of camera angles to choose from along with around 30 different graphical options to choose from in preferences.  All of it was stripped away for FM18, whose 3D in comparison was horrendous.  The incremental improvements since 18 have still not reached what FM17 offered.

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

3 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

Same story every year  Most of the comments are negative, but yet we will all buy the game. I don't even care about new features anymore. I have more than enough features and tools in the game already to have fun, I just want graphics to stop being from '90s because of the immersion. I can't play 2D anymore, I need 3D engine to be watchable. If the performance is the issue, give people more graphic options to disable for those who don't care about looks, there are no excuses anymore

Same for me.  I'm at the point where I could care less about new features.  Most of them get used once or twice and ignored afterward in anycase.  These days I'm less interested in micromanagement and more drawn to sitting down to watch a game of football in 3D.  The 3D match day experience has been neglected for the past 5 or 6 versions now, in fact it got worse after FM17. 

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

18 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Fwiw, as someone who doesn’t really care about the graphics, it is time to get with the times. Compared to other managers games that are currently using 3D, FM is lacking. The excuse about older computers isn’t a valid excuse as it was 5-10 years ago simply because the game is available on multiple platforms now.

Amen!

The excuse about older computers holding back 3D development makes no sense in anycase since FM17 looked pretty impressive - and still does. 17 had great looking pitches, the best looking stadiums and stadium variety, and the lighting was second to none.  18 to 22 have been a big step backwards to what FM17 offered visually.

[Will you be buying FM23 ?]

30 minutes ago, JamieTC13 said:

2d, yeah managers watch their team that way don't they, why have 3d then, i don't think you know what you're talking about, as managing is exactly about watching your team play. Isn't it supposed to be a representation of real life.

Exactly!

Yes the "game play" is the foundation for everything and the priority, but the match day experience - which is supposed to be the visual representation of that game play - is important to plenty of players, but sadly the visuals for it after FM17 took a big step back.    Hopefully SI will re-hire an art team for FM23 and get it back to how it once looked.

[Will you be buying FM23 ?]

8 minutes ago, forameuss said:

There would be several single-spaced A4 pages full of stuff I would rather they tackled before they even thought about how a match looks.

To each their  own.  But Football Manager to me isn't just about stats and numbers on a screen.  I like all that stuff too, and look forward to the new features, but the bottom line for me is after all is said and done (buying players, making tactics, training etc), I like to watch the game unfold in 3D because what happens on the pitch is the pinnacle of everything that we do as managers during the build up to any particular match.  If you're the type of player that instant results or likes to skim though a season asap then I can understand why match graphics don't register.   But for those who like the match day experience as much as the stats and facts, and if the visuals are poor, then its a bit of an anti-climax.  Which is a shame, because like I said, at one time the visuals were pretty good.

[Will you be buying FM23 ?]

1 hour ago, Jono Cpfc said:

bruh this is football manager not call of duty lol

Then they should get rid of the graphics altogether if they're not important, and go back to a text based game.  But personally speaking the graphics become more and more important with every version of the game as there are only so many bells and whistles new features they can add each year to keep it interesting (and most of those are designed to make it even easier to beat the AI), so its about time they gave some love to the visual aspects of the game - especially if SI want their game to appeal to new players.  I still go back and play FM17 because it was visually the best version they ever released. I'd love FM22/23s engine and FM17s graphics.

Ironically they were on the right track with FM17s visuals and lighting, then FM18 happened and it took several steps back for some reason, and still hasn't recovered.. although last years was a bit better.

No one is asking for CoD or FIFA type graphics btw!

 

[Which game had the best 3D graphics]

We can only assume that SI fired its art team after FM17 and had their programmers create the graphics for all versions that came after.  The difference between FM17 and FM18 was shocking for instance.  Later editions have improved a little but not to the standard of what FM17 offered.  FM17 looked beautiful, especially the stadiums and pitches.

[Dont delete RUSSIA From the Game]

I'd hope politics is left out of FM altogether.  Its a slippery slope.  Thousands of civilians have died in Yemen over the past 7 years thanks to Saudi Arabia bombings, is Saudi to be removed from the game too?  Like I said, its a slippery slope.  Where do game devs draw their moral line?

Bringing world politics into a football video game is a bad move.  Of course if SI are subject to FIFA or UK govt. directives, then that's a different story, its not their call and they're obliged to do what's asked.

[Which FM has the best engine?]

On 16/05/2021 at 12:48, Toshevbgg said:

I am looking to play some of the older FM games?

Which one would say has the best engine last few years ? I thinK I have all games bought except 17 or 18 I have to check steam

All versions are flawed so I guess it depends on what you consider the best for you, and the one you find the most fun.

FM2017 was the most enjoyable all round version for me as its graphically better than all the others and the engine is fine if you don't purposely use overpowered tactics - which is the exact same case on pretty much all versions to be honest.   They all have their strengths and weaknesses, so you won't find a "best" version, as its all subjective.

[Best Match Engine]

FM17 for me. It was also by far the best looking 3D match engine with a large variety of good-looking stadiums (more than what we have today), better looking pitches, and the lighting was the best of all the FM series.  Everything after 17 has been a step back as far as graphics go.  I like the look of FM22's new animations and variety of play though.  It looks promising.

 

If we could have FM22s animations and match logic, and FM17s graphics, I'd be in dreamland.

[Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer]

34 minutes ago, GreenTriangle said:

I play a game called "football manager". If I want to play the game called "football spectator" then I go to the stadium or watch TV.
For most managers results are very important. This is their "job." That's why they were "hired." If they had been hired to admire the landscape, they would no longer have been called managers.
I myself use extended or comprehensive view, but I'm not interested to look at the landscape. There are enough variables in the game and I don't think I can handle them better if I'm ecstatic about the color of the grass or about shadows. In case is happen to have an "easy" match, all I am interested in is to end the game and start preparations for the next match as soon as possible.

Hmm its a game, not real life.

And come on now, this game isn't THAT complicated that it requires someone's 100% pure concentration on their stickmen or dots kicking a ball around.  I'm sure you'd win just as many matches if you allowed yourself to occasionally glance up at the scoreboard, match timer, and even the odd flare in the crowd 

[Stadium extensions.]

On 11/09/2021 at 21:04, destmez said:

I agree we shoukd not bein involved in this as manager BUT there many reason to add à stadium editor in Fm Editor 

This ^^

I've read the arguments about managers not having a say in how a stadium looks, and that thinking is missing the point.  We already have an editor and can change team names, players names, stadium sizes, logos, all sorts.  None of that is the domain of a manager ether, but we can still do it.

The stadium editor should be something separate from the live game - something we use before we start our save.  Before the manager is even created.

[Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer]

10 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I don't want them either.

I have a pretty good idea of the sacrifices that would have to be made to get the game to that position.  And if they'd announced FM22 with them included but still had the game feeling as sterile and on-rails as it does now, then I'd find it hard to be excited by "ooh shiny".  Put lipstick on a pig etc etc

This ^^

I think the gist of it all is that some people would like to see the game go back to how the visuals looked before football manager 2018 came out, as the shadows, pitches, stadiums, graphic options, and lighting was much better in fm 2017 than the versions that came later.  The pictures posted in this thread say it all, and if people are honest about it, there's no denying it.

Fifa grpahics aren't needed for football manager, as the game is about the actual match and the managers impact on it, but those saying the graphics aren't important are missing an important point.  1. many players want to play a game that not only plays well, but looks good too (the two go hand in hand for the overall feel of the game).  2. The game has to evolve, and like it or not, to attract new players the visual aspect really needs to get a shot in the arm, or at least reverting back to how good the game looked 4 years ago.

I came looking for a stadium editor, or a way to modify them in football manager 21, as to me that's important.  Not as important as the match itself, but important because variety adds longevity. If I had one wish for fm 2022, its they announce a stadium editor - I'd even pay them $20 extra for one!

[Changing Stadium (In Game)?]

I've been reading a lot about this topic on here and joined to ask pretty much the same question!  Is it just a case of renaming some of the stadium .dat files?

[Can Someone Explain This?]

Head to Head, as was mentioned.  I think all competitions and leagues should use that over goal difference, personally speaking.