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0 "What we've got here is a failure to communicate"
  1. Thanks for the reply! You're probably right, although FWIW I do have at least 100+ hours in the game by now (still very much a noob, but not literally 'I just downloaded FM today' or anything). I did play a number of seasons with different teams and different leagues just running the standard control possession/tiki-taka/gegenpress/wing play/counter-attack/park the bus/etc. tactics that come with the game. Some seasons I literally didn't touch anything (no TIs, etc.), then I started tinkering a little bit around the edges with some satisfying results. Same thing with the pre-made TF tactics I downloaded: at first I didn't adjust anything, and then eventually I'd start tweaking things a little bit here and there to see what happens. This custom tactic is very deliberately an attempt to 'throw myself in the deep end' as it were, because that's how I like to learn once I have a basic footing. Throw everything at the wall, make a giant mess, learn from the mess, then throw more things at the wall, but slightly better the next time. Like, does the tactic I put together have at least a modicum of an understandable/general sense of purpose ('keep the center of the pitch extremely strong and dynamic, force opposition outside and press them heavily, then let chaos basically reign once I get the ball back to create defensive confusion and scoring opportunities'), or is it just a total mess with no rhyme or reason whatsoever? The TIs and specific player/role instructions are also mostly copied from other TF-inspired/replicating tactics, I didn't just start from scratch on those. Seems like every single example I've found has things like pass to space, play out of defense, low crosses, higher tempo, wide/extremely wide, be more expressive, higher defense/engagement lines, use offside trap, etc. The player-specific 'roaming/stay wide' type instructions are somewhat custom, but that's because a key weakness of the tactic seems to be its overwhelming focus on the middle and lack of dedicated attacking wingers. And I also saw them a lot in TF tactics I downloaded and played with earlier. Also, I'm curious to learn from how veteran players would approach this specific creative tactic-building question (maximum fluidity/positional mobility, three F9s, and a Libero - then go from there) because it helps me learn not just specifics, but how to think about more complex tactics/out-of-the-box stuff in general. You're probably right that having three strikers on 'support' duty is a bit silly, even if that's a core idea of the tactic. Could this be remedied by moving the Regista to an AM position (since I need to get him out of the way of the Libero anyways), or do I really just need to bite the bullet and accept that one of the F9s should become a SS or something similar? Or perhaps I could move both midfielders to a horizontal setup as CM(At) or advanced playmakers or something like that? I really don't want to mess with the 3xF9 if possible How much room do I need to give a Libero? Am I ok if I just move the DM to a normal midfielder, or do I need to clear out the entire midfield as much as possible (move both to wingers or something? that seems extreme and risky leaving the center too open)?
  2. Thanks for the response! I'm not quite sure I know what you mean by 'thinking...about where they are defensively positioned first,' but the formation you sketched out looks interesting. So basically: swap the BBPs to defend mode, change the CWBs to WBs, make the midfield horizontal with a CM instead of the RGA, swap the center F9 for a SS, and then swap the extra F9s to an IW and an IF? That's probably an objectively better strategy with better field coverage (wingers/IFs are important/good to have in general, obviously), but I really do want to focus on figuring out how to make 3xF9 work if possible.
  3. Hi all! A couple of disclaimers up top: -I'm very much a newcomer to FM and Football in general, though I've played a lot of OOTP and other sports management sims. Apologies in advance for silly questions/not knowing terminology/etc. -Yes, I shamelessly use the editor because I like learning new games by having the freedom to mess around however I like. Yes, I know Moukoko/Ugarte/Assuncao will never play in the VNL North. No, it's not boring for me (yet) to win every game by stupid margins - I'm building for eventual promotions anyways. And yes, when I want a real challenge I'll start a new save with less/no editor use. Later for the gatekeeping, please - let a noob enjoy messing around. [That being said, I am hoping to play this tactic in a more 'honest' save once I've refined it a bit, so please feel free to give advice that's more general/based on avoiding editor use, not so much about my specific players or this specific team.] -Apologies in advance for the wall of text. I tend towards the 'information overload' style of communication, but I've tried to break it into parts and space things out decently enough. ~~~ Ok, so here's the quick backstory: being a fan of somewhat unorthodox strategies and free-flowing formations (I play a lot of Ultimate Frisbee personally IRL), I decided to build my first teams around the idea of Total Football from back in the Rinus Michels/Cryuff/etc. days. I started off by downloading a bunch of pre-made tactics from various sites that attempt to faithfully re-create various teams from this style/era (Ajax, etc.), and it has been a lot of fun. So, I'm now deciding to try my hand at making a custom tactic from scratch that's somewhat inspired by these, but not directly copying them. The result, so far, is this mess: Player instructions are as follows (beyond the default for their role/settings): -Center F9: roam from position, move into channels -Side F9s: run wide with ball, stay wider, roam from position -BBM: get further forward -RGA: get further forward -BPDs: stay wider [Note: the keepers in all the screenshots should be set as sweeper keepers (support), I had them set differently by accident when taking the screenshots.] ~~~ A few caveats/foundational principles I'm working around: -Extreme fluidity/positional switching is the priority since that's the TF hallmark; as such, each of the front three has a 'swap roles' situation set up: center F9 swaps with the Regista (might change this to swap with the BBM, thoughts?), and each side F9 switches with the corresponding CWB -I want to use a Libero in central defense, ideally in 'attack' mode, because that seems to be a classic hallmark of many old TF teams -I want to use 3xFalse Nine, because... Well, why not? What could be better than one F9? Three of them! Also, I was inspired by a recent meme on the r/footballmanagergames subreddit, not going to lie. The F9 role supposedly switches pretty fluidly all over the field like the tactic wants, so why not have as many as possible? -I don't mind (and in fact rather like) the idea of players having to fit very strange/specific skillsets and play all over the field - for example, the F9/CWB combo is not one I see a lot of players having naturally, but there's surprising amount of overlap in the required attributes, so I figure players can be re-trained to fit this tactic over time. Same goes for the F9/Regista setup. ~~~ I tried to do a 3-4-3 to stay true to the original TF ideas, but in FM doing this with a Libero seems to inevitably leave the tactic with glaring defensive weaknesses - bright red patches all over the defensive third. No good. So, this led me to a 5-defender formation (4-defender doesn't allow Libero, and while some tactics I've seen use a central BPD to approximate it, I want the genuine article if possible), where the wings are major offensive players - hence the two CWB roles. (Note: I can shore up the weaknesses in the attacking third somewhat by setting them both to 'attacking,' but that downgrades the team fluidity from 'very fluid' to just 'flexible' so I decided against it for now; advice on this point would be welcomed though.) So... it almost seems like I sort of just accidentally re-invented the 3-4-3? I'm not quite clear on that. Moving the wings up to be WMs doesn't seem too bad, but it seems to weaken the defense a lot (especially with the Libero on 'attack') without much upside. My thinking on the remaining positions: -BBM: plays the full field, constantly switches between offense and defense, etc. Seems to fit the tactic? I have also considered a roaming playmaker instead. I see a lot of Mezzalas used, but they have to be off-center and I'm drawn towards midfield symmetry when I don't have wingers. Maybe that symmetry isn't important and I should have a Mezzala anyways? The F9-Mezz swap seems to be a classic TF thing? (For this same reason I have the two midfielders stacked vertically, not horizontally - thoughts on this? It seems to weaken parts of the midfield a bit, but I don't know how important that is vs. symmetry and other considerations.) -RGA: honestly not sure, but from the description I think it fits the general idea of the tactic? Not quite as far back as the DLP, so maybe less likely to crowd the Libero? I've read some people say that Liberos and any sort of DLP/RGA/etc. can be problematic, and others say it's fine if you're careful about the formation and instructions and such. Can only be played from the DM spot, so if I go to horizontal midfielders this role will have to change obviously. -BPD(cover): not sure on this either, but this seems to fit the tactic too of including the defense as relevant parts of the offense; 'cover' seems important given that the Libero is on 'attack,' but maybe I'm thinking about that wrong and they should be on 'defend' or 'stopper.' ~~~ I also have a weird variant of this that's supposed to be... I guess a 3-3-3-1 without wingers? I basically just drop the two extra F9s back to become Mezzalas, one on each side to act as semi-wingers. I imagine I might use this as a 'second half, up by several goals, almost-park-the-bus' type of strategy. It looks like this: Obviously, I doubt we'll score many goals with this, but the defense looks solid and there's at least a non-zero chance of still scoring. Perhaps the BBM should be moved to an AM or some sort, but again this is the most heavily defense-focused variant. Once again, I can shore up the attacking-third weaknesses by shifting the CWBs and/or Mezzalas into 'attack' mode, but this comes at the cost of fluidity and some defensive presence: (Note: setting the CWBs to attack but the Mezzalas to support at least gets me to 'flexible,' but still not fluid or very fluid like I want.) ~~~ Whew, ok. That's the information. Thanks for reading, if you're still here. Any and all advice is welcome! I like to learn by drinking from the proverbial fire hose, so bring it all on. Some specific questions: -Is the RGA a good fit for this strategy, and can it play safely with the L(At)? If not, how should I reconfigure my two midfielders? -How should I be thinking about the trade-off between more fluidity and better field coverage? Both in this tactic specifically, and in FM more generally. -Do my settings for in/out of possession and in transition look ok? What might I consider adjusting, and why? -Do my player instructions make sense/look ok? What might I consider adjusting, and why? ~~~ Thanks in advance for any and all input!
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