[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

On 08/12/2023 at 11:03, JT23 said:

Has anyone tried these principles on FM 24? With the new IFB working as a third CB there could be some interesting ideas.

4231 DM with a HB and DLP support, and WB’s in the FB slots gets it pretty much bang on. I’ve not used the IFB much but I’d imagine it’s very doable. 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

On 21/08/2022 at 20:44, BadAss88 said:

Anyone succesfull with this? I was thinking the following..

DLF-S - AF-A
IF-A ------------------- W-A
BWM-D - DLP-S
WB-A - CD-D - CD-D - IWB-A
SK-D

Ive not tried this configuration myself but give it a go and let us know how you get on! The only thing that initially springs to mind for me is that is your BWM is dropping in to form the 3 then he and the 2 CBs player roles won't necessarily look for progressive passes so everything may funnel through the DLP. Maybe this is what you want but if oppo marks then then it may be difficult to play out.  

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On 16/01/2022 at 16:38, Lasson said:

This is taken from my latest game against Ascoli. You can clearly see the 3-1 in the back with the HB splitting the CBs and the RGA sitting in the middle. My only problem right here is my RW and RB almost standing on top of each other even with the RW told to "Sit narrower". 

Seems like the HB works better this year than it did last year which is great. I've got the same problem with the winger and the fullback being too close. I wonder whether moving the wingers to the right and left AM slots would solve this? Although that may affect things defensively and obviously the roles are different...

 

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Decent shape here with a 4-2-3-1 DM: 

 

PIs: 

AM - move into channels

VOL - move into channels 

both fullbacks - shoot less often 

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Just now, timbom said:

I also like the idea of using my midfielders to achieve it instead of the fullback so curious to see if it's doable 

 

having said that I had some decent results last night with Ajax using timber as a RB(S) with the PIs others have mentioned to make him one of the '3' and blind as a DLP(D): 

- 4-2-3-1 

2 -RB - FB(S) + sit narrower, cut inside with ball, cross less often

4 -RCB - CB(C)

21 - LCB -BPD(D) - (stay wider, dribble more) 

31 - LB - FB(A) - (shoot less often) 

17 - RCM - DLP(D) 

 

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22 hours ago, BrickCommo23 said:

Hi all,

I joined in this thread back in FM21 and failed spectacularly to get a 3-1-6 going with Arsenal but am having another go this year.

I know many are trying to get their RB to tuck in to make the 3 but I am having a slightly different approach and trying to use a Half Back to make the 3 instead.

This is my current effort but very much welcome any thoughts anyone may have as I am trying to make this work mid-season so margin for error is minimal (and have shamelessly stolen some ideas from @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!in terms of mentality and compactness...)

 

How does it do out of possession? Does the midfield stay in a 1-1 shape like they are on the tactics screen? 

I also like the idea of using my midfielders to achieve it instead of the fullback so curious to see if it's doable 

22 hours ago, BrickCommo23 said:

 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I actually use a BBM or an RPMs. It is somewhat risky, but that's because I'm replicating the Kimmich Goretzka pivot. If you want to do the 3-1-6 in a 4-2-3-1, the double pivot is so important. You need genuinely well rounded players at the relevant levels. And positioning is a key attribute

Goretzka was my first thought when I was thing about the BBM instead of the BWM. I’ve been using BBM this afternoon with great results so far. Will play some more games and maybe get some screenshots together. Don’t wanna count my chickens 😂 

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2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Won't be till Wednesday as I'm away, but hopefully I can describe it and you can see what I mean?

4-2-3-1 shape. I play positive mentality, narrow width, very short passing, no extra creative freedom ( I only want specific players to move in what I'm doing)

FB-D, I think has: sits narrower, dribble less cross from deep, hold position. And of course you need a player without gets forward or hugs touchline. I've previously converted Lindelof there. I have my build-up with the DLP-S on that side, with my winger/inverted winger staying wider.

On the opposite side I have the other full back/sometimes wingback attack with stay wider, and the left CB also asked to stay wider so as the full back is high the left CB fills the gap.

It's not perfect but I do like what I see. 

Great, cheers for that. I've just given it a go with some of these ideas. I think the narrow width really helps to be fair. There still seems to be some width when in attacking areas (more than FM21) which is nice. 

What role do you use next to the DLP(S)? I've used the BWM (S) this time as I don't want the left side too exposed but this does make is more of a 3-2-5 unless the BWM pushes forward. Thinking a BBM but feels risky. I'm trying to avoid using any role on defensive duty as they seem to step in and cover the fullback space, forming a back 4 again. 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

12 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I currently play with a  FB- defend and it's so good for possession build up - think Pavard at Bayern

Can you post some screenshots for context please? 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

Has anybody had any luck with FM22? I’ve been using a DLP(D) and a CM(D) which sometimes forms the 3-1 shape but it’s more of a box to be honest. 
 

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On 08/03/2021 at 23:40, BrickCommo23 said:

And this is a slightly updated tactic.

Belatedly added 'Stay Wider' for the CBs too.

How does it do in-game in regards to getting the 3-1 shape? Imo the average position charts doing give you the info you need as it shows av. positions for the the whole game - not just when building up - which is when we want to 3-1. It looks like it should work although I found that a 'roam from position' TI on your '1' (your DLP?) helped so they could pick up pockets instead of staying static. It's then making sure that they don't bomb up tho... 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

On 27/02/2021 at 12:57, (sic) said:

So this is something I've been recently trying to recreate, the only way I got it to work more consistently is to move right CB to central spot, LCB is given the stay-wide instruction just like RCM. I just don't see my players forming that shape otherwise.

CM-D on the right will drop deep, and sometimes cover that empty spot in defence.

Average positions with ball.

Looks good! Is that right flank a problem defensively through? 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

On 21/02/2021 at 13:17, Mike_Cardinal said:

Does a Half Back always drop in between the CBs rather than on the outside - even if you have them positioned off-centre with 'Stay Wider' and a CB on Cover behind them?

Not tried this exact set-up but I haven't been able to get that movement in this years game so far. With stay wider in my attempts they only 'stayed wider' when they pushed up 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

1 hour ago, steakfaced said:

So what is it?!

 

On 03/02/2021 at 20:20, timbom said:

I've been playing a draft to test tactics and this is doing really well so far. 

r  

 

There's quite a few PI's so bear with me here: 

CBs - stay wider. I've noticed that the regista will drop in-between them when needed to help play out, but will maintain the 2-2 when not needed. Either of the DMs will drift out wide when the CWB pushes up to help progress the ball too. 

BWM - Hold position. I don't want this guy all over the place and regista has roam hard coded. This role may still change but it definitely helps press higher up the pitch and cover the regista. 

AM(A) - Roam from position, move into channels 

AML - Roam from position 

AMR - Roam from position and more direct passes 

I've also changed the 'focus play' instructions depending on game state and formation of the oppo but middle is my 'default' 

 

Will get some IG screenshots as they come 

   Draft

   Barca De Jong Regista, Sergio BWM 

  Alena Regista, Pjanic BWM

 

 

This one! Still not 100% on the BWM but feel that he gives me good balance so keeping it as is for the time being 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

Thanks for all the help everyone - I've finally got a system that I'm happy with (pretty much). If anyone has any more suggestions or updates keep em coming! This thread has been great 

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7 hours ago, BrickCommo23 said:

The thing I really can't get clear in my head is how best to use the three pillars of tempo, passing length and width.

I know an earlier post suggested 'Very Wide' but in my experience that tends to hamper the ability to keep the ball?

My understanding is:

Tempo dictates how quickly you try to  move the ball from back to front 

passing length is the sort of ‘risk’ of passes. Shorter passes are safer but offer less penetration and more direct passing is less safe but offers more penetration 

Width  is how far your players will be spaced horizontally. The idea of wider play may be to stretch the opposition to create space, but passing is then more difficult because of the distance. 

More narrow width keeps your players closer together, making it easier to keep the ball, but can potentially be easier to defend against as it allows the opposition to stay compact. 

happy to be corrected if people don’t agree though, this is just my take on it 

 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

I've been playing a draft to test tactics and this is doing really well so far. 

r  

 

There's quite a few PI's so bear with me here: 

CBs - stay wider. I've noticed that the regista will drop in-between them when needed to help play out, but will maintain the 2-2 when not needed. Either of the DMs will drift out wide when the CWB pushes up to help progress the ball too. 

BWM - Hold position. I don't want this guy all over the place and regista has roam hard coded. This role may still change but it definitely helps press higher up the pitch and cover the regista. 

AM(A) - Roam from position, move into channels 

AML - Roam from position 

AMR - Roam from position and more direct passes 

I've also changed the 'focus play' instructions depending on game state and formation of the oppo but middle is my 'default' 

 

Will get some IG screenshots as they come 

   Draft

   Barca De Jong Regista, Sergio BWM 

  Alena Regista, Pjanic BWM

 

 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

https://deanalyserendetrainer.com/2018/10/20/het-ajax-van-erik-ten-hag-tactische-analyse/ found this whilst looking for info last night - really useful for context of when Ajax use certain combinations 

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How're the SS & F9 doing? I've always liked the idea of that combination but never got it firing 

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3 hours ago, breze77 said:

I just found a very interesting video on not necessarily the 3-1-6, but the use of a CM dropping to the right side to form a back 3 and exploiting space. In this video this kind of movement is used to drag the opposition LM out and create space behind him. In turn dortmund formed a 3-1 shape during build up. I think It's a very interesting concept and perhaps another good explanation for the use of the 3-1 shape at the back.

 

 

This is great. I think the main problem I've found with the ME is that the other CM/DM tends to stay further to their 'side' and not centrally, which funnels the play the same direction when you play out. I with their was a 'sit central' instruction...

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

I'm managing to get decent results using stay wider on either a HB or a DLP(D) in the DM strata paired with a RPM. 3 AMs all on attack duty and a CF(S). I know it sounds a bit 'wrong' to have all 3AMs on attack but so far so good. Will get some screenshots done when I get chance. Here's a quick one: 

I'm still messing with TI's but the idea of narrow and focus through middle is to funnel the ball through the DMs and allow the WB's to get higher without the CBs looking for them every time as some others have said on this thread. 

I've sometimes gone to maximum closing down intensity to cut off the oppo supply so my AP and IW don't have to track back and make the most of their attack duty. The idea came from reading Pep Confidential. He makes the point that to get the most out of Ribery and Robben they need the defensive line as high as possible and to press high and hard to make sure Robbery don't have to come back into the midfield all the time. I am a bit scared of 'much higher' d-line with Pique and Umtiti being a little average pace wise but may try it going forwards. 

The wingbacks here tend to support build up but both of them have the trait of 'gets forward whenever possible' so they seem to still get involved when the ball in on their side 

The idea of having 'stay wider' on the HB/DLP(D) is that they get involved in wide build up play on their side. I feel like with a normal HB they sit centrally in-front of the CBs which leaves a big gap on their flank and build up is more difficult. I've also seen him filling in for the RB on occasion which is cool 

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

5 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Here's another example of the 3-1-6 shape working nicely (coming from a 4-2-2-2), this time in Paris.

 

Looks great. The same 4-2-2-2 you posted early in the thread?

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4 hours ago, Lordluap said:

Ahh, that makes more sense.  

That said, I think that's decent positioning.  He's covering their 10,  and 12 and is well placed to help with constructing play from left to right flank.  But I do get what you're saying... Sadly the limitations of the Match Engine mechanisms mean we can't get it 100% - like lots of things it's a case of compromising what we want and what we can have.

I did think the same when uploading those screenshots... 

Exactly, the ME has some frustrating limitations to be fair. I'd love to be able to alternate which CM/ DM drops depending on where the ball is or be able to choose specifically for them to drop centrally or wide of the CBs in build up. So many teams do it IRL now it's hopefully something they can do in the future 

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Like I 

1 hour ago, Lordluap said:

But this would be a correct movement, surely?  The purpose of the 3-1 is to aid build up from the back, not add defensive stability?? * Once the move has progressed in to the final 3rd surely you want the support from your CM to aid ball recycling / passing options behind the front line?  otherwise you'd have a flat and dead line of 3 and a line of 6.  You still need some depth and support to your attacks.  I suppose it depends on why you want to build with the 3-1.  If it's to provide defensive cover then just use a back 3 and a central DM surely?  if it's to provide angled passes out from the back to counteract your opposition pressing you then you'd want the initial backward and wide movement from your CM until such time that he isn't needed to fulfil that role and can perform another duty in supporting the attack in the final 3rd then using this sort of set up will work.  I would wager if you watch Ajax or especially Lille you will see similar movements to in-game (perhaps not 100% accurate or every time but certainly enough to make it a very close representation). 

Perhaps you could post some in-match screenshots?

Here's an example from Lille: the CM(d) higher (and wider) in support once the play has progressed:

 

* Sure, having the 3 deeper will aid defensive stability and transitioning but that's not really the reason the concept exists.

Sorry, should have said - when the ball in on the opposite side (screenshots below)

Makes total sense when on the side of the ball like the screenshot of Lille. It's working sometimes, not others for me. Like I say it's more about consistency. 

Pjanic is no.8 here. CM(D). 
    

[3-1-6 Shape in possession]

I'm struggling to get the 3-1 shape consistently on FM21, has anybody tried it on this years game? The CM(D) seems to push too high and wide for my when we're attacking just leaving the 2 CBs exposed. Has anyone else had any luck?