[My first FM24 tactic: 4-2-3-1]

1 hour ago, Twitch_TrZealousLive said:

Any personal instructions for the players at all? 

Only the ones I’ve listed on the tactic screenshots (on the AMC and RW) - I don’t like to use a lot of player instructions and the ones I do use are either situational or, as in the examples above, based on learning from repeated watching; for example I started instructing the inverted winger to “sit narrower” together with the “overlap right” team instruction because the wing back on that side was not getting as far forward as I would have liked.

it’s a matter of personal choice.  I find too many PI’s to be counterproductive, making  it harder to determine what makes the tactic work/not work.  I also like the way a players natural traits can alter the way a tactic plays in small nuanced ways (without PIs).  That said, I’d weLcome any suggestions for PI’s that may help improve the tactic.

[My first FM24 tactic: 4-2-3-1]

Thanks

You're spot on... Flick got the best out of that Bayern team, experienced players and newbies alike.  Muller definitely regained his mojo in that side.

I think you're right, a more faithful recreation might look like this...

...but I'm not sure I have the right players at the moment (I experimented with a CF but my strikers are not Lewandowski!). It will be January soon and maybe I can find the right forward and AMC.  I haven't dipped my toes into the transfer market yet, any tips ppl?

[Please help]

It's not easy to understand the style of play you are looking for here, perhaps you could give us a bit more insight?

Looking at your tactic it's entirely possible that some of your instructions and role/duty choices are working against one another and that could be causing you problems.  For example you're instructing your players to play the ball very short and work it patiently into the box, whilst also telling them to play lots of through balls and keep the tempo high.

Similarly there's some conflict in asking the team to:

• play short passes and concentrate play through the middle of the park, whilst stretching them out as wide as possible.
• play with a high tempo but to frequently waste time.
• overlap on both flanks whilst using defensive inverting full backs (overlap generally only affects full backs and wing backs
• employ a positive mentality and ALL offensive players on an attack duty (similarly with the midfield all on support, and defenders all on defend, there'll be little movement between the lines)
• form a diamond defence but step up with an offside trap (all the while using a mega high line)

Personally, I would try the following:

• Mix up the duties, put your wingers on support (when starting this high up the pitch wingers tend to play more like wide forwards anyway).
• Try an advanced forward and attacking midfielder (a), or pressing forward (s) and shadow striker combination. The AF moves into channels opening up space for the AMC, whereas the PF and SS should switch places frequently without minimising your press.
• Drop the CM's into the DM line or put one of them on a defend duty (the CM probably)
• Have one DC as a ball playing defender and the other as an orthodox defender (utilising a libero in a back four is very difficult to pull off)
• Have more orthodox full backs; I find the FB(a) is a great blend of attacking intent and defensive responsibility.

As for the team instructions, maybe start with:

positive mentality, shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box, take short kicks, distribute to CB's, counter-press, higher defensive line, high press, press more often/much more often, prevent short GK distribution

or (if you prefer a more direct style of attacking)...

balanced mentality, standard passing, higher tempo, play out of defence, pass into space, take short kicks, distribute to CB's, counter-press, counter, higher defensive line, high press, press more often/much more often, prevent short GK distribution

I find a balanced mentality is a good place to start with top heavy formations like the 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4.

Be more Moyes and less Pep 

Good luck 

[My first FM24 tactic: 4-2-3-1]

2 hours ago, TheMartello said:

Looks like a great project!

 

I hope you share the tactic soon because I can´t wait to try it out!

 

I can't believe I forgot to add the actual tactic to the OP 

Fixed that now!

[My first FM24 tactic: 4-2-3-1]

It’s early days but I thought I’d share my first FM24 tactic, a simple but (hopefully) effective 4-2-3-1.  Please comment with your thoughts and advice, where do you think I could make improvements and what problems do you foresee for us over the remainder of the season.

As with most of my FM tactics, I find inspiration in real life - in this case from one of the most impressive UCL winners of recent times…

In the 2019/20 season Bayern Munich won a treble of trophies: the Bundesliga, DFB Pokal and UEFA Champions League; and they did so playing a brand of exciting attacking football. In that first season under manager Hansi Flick, Bayern scored 100 goals in 34 Bundesliga games (2.94 goals per game) and 43 goals in the Champions League.

Hansi Flick inherited a talented but under-performing squad from predecessor Nico Kovac; he ditched Kovac's 'three at the back' approach and returned to the blueprint that had brought the club much success under Jupp Heynckes, the 4-2-3-1.

Flick used this shape to get the best out of players like Robert Lewandowski, Serge Gnabry, the "mentality monster" Joshua Kimmich and emerging talent Alphonso Davies.  The tactical change had an immediate impact with Bayern beating Dortmund 4-0 in Flick's first Bundesliga game.

https://youtu.be/-caMpDqwh_c?feature=shared

My chosen team is Fiorentina who possess a well-balanced squad suited to playing 4-2-3-1.  Although it's clear the La Viola players are not the same calibre as that 2020 Bayern team, whenever I think of a 4-2-3-1 I’m reminded of Flick's accomplishments.

A 4-2-3-1 on paper resembles 4-4-1-1 when defending and an asymmetric 3-1-5-1 in possession.  When we have the ball one full back advances whilst the other tucks in to form a back three. The team’s width comes from the attacking wing back on one flank and a more traditional winger on the other, the other offensive players can attack the penalty area in numbers.

 

One of the brightest talents in the 2020 Bayern side was a 19-year-old wing back called Alphonso Davies, and in a surprising parallel La Viola also has an exciting 19-year-old wing back in Michael Kayode.  As Davies provided the width on Bayern's left, Kayode will do the same on Fiorentina’s right.

Unlike most 4-2-3-1 tactics which deploy a double pivot or instruct one of the defensive midfielders drop between the centre backs, we use an inverted full back on the right to create a back three.  This structure allows the two defensive midfielders to be more involved, one pushing up to join the attack, the other sitting ahead of the defenders as the single pivot in a 3-1 shape.

This arrangement suits the Fiorentina midfielders, Rolando Mandragora can play as the metronome, loanee Arthur the box-to-box midfielder, whilst Maxime Lopez can perform both roles.  What’s more, if the opposition mark Mandragora then Nikola Milenkovic, a ball playing defender on the right of the back three, is more than capable of bringing the ball out of defence.

It's important to note that we're only 10 games into the Serie A season, but the early signs point toward a tactic performing its offensive duties with confidence.

 

 

[Adding half space and thirds lines to aid match analysis (FM life hack)]

I thought I'd share this football manager 'life hack' which I find helpful when analysing my tactics in game.

Applying an overlay to the match screen helps me to quickly reference the player positioning during the various phases of play.  I also apply a similar overlay to the analysis screens (examples below).

The free app I've been using to achieve this is called Red Line Tools but there are various different 'overlay' apps available.  It's easy to use - you choose the style, colour and thickness of the lines and then place them wherever you want.

[Fast Transitions and Quick Breaks]

On 01/06/2021 at 16:39, Strikerir1 said:

What I really want is to see some quick Transitions going from back to front quickly, from midfield to front quickly and from front to goal quickly

Quick transitions from front to back quickly has been amongst the key principles of my recent efforts with RB Leipzig, and I was fairly successful in the first season too, winning the Bundesliga... not with defensive football but with fast aggressive football played on the front foot.  My approach was to combine higher tempos with narrow, top heavy formations as I wanted bodies forward to receive those quick vertical passes and to overload/isolate the opposition defence.

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

5 hours ago, Captain Cabinets said:

Thanks for the write-up SS, really interesting look at the principles of pressing. I know this isn't intended to be plug&play but I was wondering about what kind of PIs you would use for this style as it's an area that I find tough to navigate - e.g. if we're compact on defence should I ask my wide players to sit narrower, or is that overkill? Same with an SV type ball carrier/creative player, should he run with the ball more and play more risky passes? Cheers!

To be honest, I rarely use player instructions preferring to shape my tactics with roles and duties.  For example,  if I'm thinking about maintaining a structured defence then I'll likely be more conservative with my choice of roles/duties (particularly if I'm playing at a higher mentality).  If I want a vertically compact defence then I'll raise my defensive line or, for a horizontally compact defence, I'll use the 'force opposition wide' team instruction.

I might use the odd PI if I want to emphasise, or dial down, a particular aspect of a player's performance but I tend to do this in game as a reaction to how the play is unfolding.  In truth, I find it too easy to 'forget' which PI's are being used!

My advice would be don't overthink it, start with a simple idea and and identify the key instructions - for example, with RBL I knew I wanted to play vertically and, to me, this meant employing a higher tempo and using a 'top heavy' formation so I would have players up field for those rapid transitions.  Select the roles/duties around the defensive and attacking shapes that you're hoping to achieve and then sit back and watch some games.  Now, ask yourself how close are you to the basic tactical idea?  Once you're happy with the 'foundation' make other changes as necessary - for example raising, or lowering, the DL and LoE; or experimenting with your pressing intensity.

I think too many FM-er's watch YouTube videos on real world tactics and then attempt to emulate this in the game by taking the analysis too literally, adding a cacophony of instructions.  Sometimes less is more

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

On 27/05/2021 at 21:57, halfspace3000 said:

any more updates on how this is going?

Thanks for your interest, however, the thread/topic was designed to be a one-off analysis of the tactical principles I've been applying lately and not a 'series' following the progress of my save.  I've considered expanding on how I prepare for games, how I analyse my opponent and then tweak the strategy - but this feels more suited to a thread of its own.  In truth, I can't see me adding any more to the original post here but I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

I've also been thinking of starting a save in which I'll attempt to implement these principles at a team ill-suited to this style of play.  I'm interested to see if I can imbed a philosophy at a club the way the Red Bull corporation have at Salzburg and Leipzig.  If I do start this save, and decide to post about it, then this will be in the Careers Update forum (and I'll add a link here).

 

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

On 20/05/2021 at 08:41, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I really enjoyed reading this thread; particularly the use of video and the match engine screenshots. Well done and thank you for sharing! 

Like many, I have become increasingly fascinated by the 'German school' of managers currently dominating football. I'm in East Africa at the moment and there's a lot of German football shown on TV due to a football-mad population and it's a really interesting league.

Previously I had thought that the league was 'press, press, press', but there is far more too it than that. Sides do certainly press and it's extremely well organised but not necessarily high all of the time.

In the same way you identify formations being flexible, I am noticing that the playing style for someone like Nagelsman for example is more flexible than for say Klopp or Guardiola.

Firstly, thank you I appreciate the positive feedback. 

Unfortunately, I no longer have a subscription to BT Sport so I don't get to watch as much German football as I'd like, but I do find the evolution of the German game over the past twenty years really interesting.  It seems like the national footballing identify has collectively moved away from disciplined sweeper systems of the late eighties and early nineties; from employing three at the back and rigid man-marking, to take on a more innovative approach generally played at a higher tempo with pressing as one of it's core values.

Ralf Rangnick was one of the managers that I looked to for inspiration when developing this tactical style.  He is considered one of the forefathers of modern German football, as well as highly instrumental in developing the Red Bull philosophy.  I too find Nagelsman's approach fascinating and I'm taking a keen interest in following his career - his next season, the first at Bayern, promises to be an exciting one.

This Guardian article by Jonathan Wilson is a short but interesting read about the evolution of the German game and it's part in shaping the 'modern game.'   It does, in part, mention the affect the pandemic had on 'pressing' sides whose approach relies on regular training sessions focussed on organised and repetitive functions.  It's fair to say that structured patterns and triggers are at the heart of pressing and (understandably) Football Manager finds it hard to replicate all of these concepts.

I have a lot of love for the Football Manager match engine but I do see the pressing game as one of it's limitations.  Pressing in football Manager is an approximation, it is mostly ball oriented and any flexibility (in application) is limited to the depth of the press, its intensity and the number of players involved.  What I've tried to do is translate some of the key ideas behind a particular style into the 'language' of Football Manager, and I think you've pretty much nailed those key ideas in your post...

On 20/05/2021 at 08:41, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I notice some principles are pretty constant, such as:

• Very collective, well-organised defensive shape
• Often building from the back but in a more direct way than other leagues
• Structured well-organised attacking shape

 

On 20/05/2021 at 08:41, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I am still playing FM2018 so I am able to use Team Shape so for me I would be setting my formation and using lots of Support duties to create that collective playing style and a Structured team shape to create that organisation (rather than giving individual freedom in more fluid shape). Then use different team mentalities to adapt the pressing intensity and directness on a game by game basis.

My comments are more broadly related to the likes of Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Rose, Favre and co. rather than the Red Bull style (which you seem to have nailed).

I love the 4-2-4 shape by the way did you go for 2 centre forwards and 2 inside forwards?

I think balancing duties with shape in that way makes a lot of sense, and in FM21 I've certainly used mentality to help manage the intensity of the team's pressing and attack.  I guess the biggest difference between FM18 and FM21 has been the introduction of the defensive line and the line of engagement; these help to define a team's compactness and to determine the depth of the press.  For example, it may be easier in the latest iteration of the game to stick to a higher mentality yet lower the line of engagement?

I genuinely haven't used the 4-2-4 in Football Manager for several years but I've got to sat it's brought me a lot of joy - almost every foray into attack feels like it could end in a goal!  The front four has fluctuated but often consists of a staggered front two (i.e. one on an attack duty, one on support) and two inverting wingers/forwards - or sometimes a playmaker coming inside.

For those interested, this was how I set up in my last match (a 5-0 win against Hoffenheim), however, I want to stress this is not designed to be a 'plug and play' tactic (please read the opening post!)...

 

 

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

10 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Hiya, I can't help myself pointing this out but you're almost using the terms the wrong way around.  Strategy is the long term vision; tactics are the short term actions.

Potato, Potahto 

I took my definition from the Stevie Grieve quote in the opening post, and that still makes sense to me.  But whatever your preferred definition, my over-arching point is that I like to approach the game with a set of principles which only change subtly over several seasons.  I do, however, make tweaks to formations, player roles, duties, etc. based on my next opponent (although I'm definitely not saying that I make changes for every game!)

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

22 hours ago, buachuta said:

Great write-up. Wonder what's your roles upfront? It looks like all of them are attacking, but you mention a false nine. Hopefully you will update soon

Thanks. 

The focus on our attacking 'tactics' rather than the 'strategies' employed (formations, players, roles and duties) was intentional; this is because I'll frequently make changes to our 'strategy' as we come up against different opponents with different strengths, weaknesses and strategies of their own.

As outlined above, our attacking principles are to have numbers forward and to use these players in order to isolate or disrupt the opposition defenders.  We may try to isolate the opposition in 1-on-1's by stretching play and overloading down one side - for example, we may set up a 4-2-4 with a playmaker on one flank and a wide forward on the other. Alternatively, we may try to beat a more compact defence by having players who 'roam from position' or cut in from wide positions - creating space by dragging a defender from their assigned position, either horizontally or vertically.

So the tactical principles always remain the same - commit men to the attack, create space and attack vertically - but the strategy, including player roles and duties, changes depending on the opposition.  Before you can exploit your opponents weaknesses you need to identify them - as they say 'fail to prepare, prepare to fail' - and soon, I hope to write a bit more about how I scout my opponents and prepare for matches.

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

Reserved

[My attacking principles (as inspired by the Red Bull philosophy)]

Introduction

I really enjoy reading through the Tactics, Training & Strategies forum, the quality of some of the posts is exceptional and a visit to the site often inspires me to experiment in my own games.  So, I thought I'd share some of my own tactical ideas, starting with the offensive approach I'm applying in my current save with RB Leipzig.  I hope you find the topic interesting.

I’d like to open with a quote about ‘tactics’ and ‘strategies’ taken from a popular podcast…

Quote

“Tactics are the principles of play which you would use week to week, the way that you want your team to play irrespective of the formation or the opponent, things that the players recognise and are convinced by that are going to be consistent every week.

The strategy will be how you use your tactics against a specific opponent.”

- Stevie Grieve

That particular episode of the World Football Index Tactics Podcast (entitled Strategy & Tactics) first aired in 2016, and when I heard Stevie’s characterisation of tactics and strategy it really struck a chord with me.  In the context of football manager we often talk about ‘tactics’ as being the sum of all parts - formation, roles, duties, mentalities, team and player instructions - but even the top sides will face a number of different styles and strategies over the course of a season, so it’s counterintuitive to expect a ‘one size fits all’ approach to be successful in every game.

Over the course of a single save, I look to evolve a set of tactical principles that defines my team’s style of play but, at the same time, I’ll employ a variety of different strategies (formations, players, roles and duties) to gain an advantage over my opponents.  As the strategy can vary from game to game, I intend to focus on the tactical principles that I’ve adopted in my latest save.  As I’m managing RB Leipzig it’s only natural that I’ve found inspiration in the philosophy of the Red Bull School of Football Management and its alumni.

 

Attacking Principles

The players are encouraged to attack vertically, often moving the ball from back to front quickly.  These are not speculative long balls but deliberate passes that can bypass several opposition players at once. We're not afraid to commit players into the final third either and favour ‘top heavy’ systems such as the 4-2-3-1 or, more commonly, the 4-2-2-2.  These formations, combined with higher mentalities and a narrow attacking width, help to isolate opposition defenders in one-on-one situations, or destabilise them with player movements and quick passing combinations.

FM21 interpretation: 4-2-4 wide, 4-2-4 DM wide, 4-2-3-1 DM AM wide, positive/attacking mentality, narrow/very narrow attacking width, pass into space, higher/much higher tempo

 

Higher line of engagement & counter-pressing

Much of my philosophy at RB Leipzig relies on effective transitions, counter-pressing when we lose the ball and counter-attacking when we win it.  In the majority of games we press hard and apply a high line of engagement, what I would call an aggressive mid/high block.   Against more technical sides, however, we tend to be more cautious in the press and may drop our line of engagement to standard.

I find that top heavy formations lend themselves to fast attacking transitions because the team immediately have 3 or 4 players ahead of the ball when they gain possession. In the video clip below Augsburg are playing with a high defensive line and the Leipzig players close down Carlos Gruezo as soon as he receives the ball in a deep position.  This forces Gruezo to misplace his pass and Emil Forsberg intercepts.  Due to their advanced positioning RB Leipzig have four players ahead of the ball and outnumber Augsburg's three defenders.  Felix Uduokhai gets a tackle in but it's not enough to deny Die Roten Bullen and, after a piece of individual brilliance from Yussuf Poulsen, the ball is in the back of the net.

FM21 interpretation: counter-press, higher/much higher defensive line, standard/higher line of engagement, urgent/extremely urgent pressing intensity, close down more (player instruction)

 

Counter-attacking from deep

If the team can't win the ball back quickly we'll drop back into a low block and force our opponents to go wide.  When you are using top heavy systems it is important to use the right balance of support and defend mentalities amongst your midfielders and defenders, if you commit too many players forward without covering the space behind your opponents will be threatening your goal before you've had a chance to set your defensive shape.  I like to use a double pivot (two DM's) to help provide some defensive solidity and I favour full-backs over wing-backs due to their deeper starting position.

After winning possession deep in our own territory we aim to progress the ball forward quickly, trying to find the most advanced player in as few passes as possible.  Because a lot of teams push their full backs further forward there's often space on the flanks which can be exploited by a quick counter attack and the players combine to create triangles in the half spaces.  One of our most productive attacking patterns is a diagonal ball into the path of a forward making a vertical run behind.

The video clip below is taken from a resounding win over Chelsea in the UEFA Champions League.  Callum Hudson-Odoi's low cross is cut out by Konrad Laimer and the ball bounces away before being picked up by Dani Olmo.  Yussuf Poulsen has come wide and he, Olmo and Angeliño play a quick combination of passes before launching the ball at an angle to meet Alexander Sørloth's run.  Sørloth is one-on-one with Edouard Mendy and the Chelsea 'keeper doesn't stand a chance as RB Leipzig make it 4-0.

FM21 interpretation: full backs not wing backs, 2 defensive midfielders, play out of defence, whipped crosses, standard/slightly higher passing directness, counter

 

Creating space through movement & rotations

Committing players into the attack occupies the opposing defenders and gives them a headache, if our players are also mobile and constantly swapping positions this can create space for others.  The image below depicts our typical attacking shape when playing in a 4-2-2-2 system.  The front four operate in that all important zone behind the opposition midfield and in front of their defence.  This high positioning forces the opposition defenders to choose  between pressing our forwards, and risk leaving gaps in behind, or dropping off thereby conceding space on the edge of the box.  And because the forward line is horizontally compact, the opposition defence are drawn inside which creates space for our full backs to attack.

In the following video clips you'll find four goals all of which were scored because we forced our opposition to concede space.  In the first video our wingers have inverted and the opposing full backs have tracked them inside, on both occasions our own full-back was able to run into the empty space and rifle the ball home.  In the second of the two videos, the opposition's defensive line is sat so deep that our midfielder, Amadou Haidara, has acres of space to score from the edge of the area.

FM21 interpretation: inverted wingers, inside forwards, false nine, roam from position (player instruction), move into channels (player instruction), sit narrower (player instruction), cut inside with ball (player instruction), narrow/very narrow attacking width

 

Building-up from the back and goalkeeper distribution

Whilst the team are encouraged to attack vertically, play often starts from deep within our own half.  Playing out from the back can provoke the opposition to press from the front which, in turn, can lead to space being opened up further up the pitch; space we can exploit with (you guessed it) quick vertical balls.

Goal kicks are the first phase of attack and we both use long and short distribution in our build-up depending on the opponent's press.  The image below illustrates our typical set-up at goal kicks when playing in a 4-2-2-2 system.  The centre backs have positioned themselves alongside the goalkeeper in the 18 yard box, the double pivot is staggered in front of the area and the full backs are hugging the touchline providing a diagonal passing option.  The forward line, however, is pushed right up against our opponents defensive line.  

If the 'keeper plays a short ball (to the centre backs or midfielders) our wingers will drop deeper and play is often progressed through the half space through a series of triangles formed by the players on that flank.  If the opposition are pressing hard at goal kicks then our 'keeper will go long to the forwards.  The physicality of forwards like Poulsen and Sørloth, can cause our opponents all sorts of problems when the 'keeper plays the long ball.

In the last of my video analysis, RB Leipzig score against Arminia Bielefeld with a goal that combines many of the elements we've discussed in this post.  The move begins with a short goal-kick passed to Dayot Upamecano, who advances the ball down the right flank via Nordi Mukiele and Konrad Laimer.  Whilst the team are building up from deep, the movement of our forwards is creating space for the vertical attack.  Centre forward Alexander Sørloth has dropped deep into midfield and Emil Forsberg has moved inside from the right wing.   Joakim Nilsson has neglected his duties in the centre of Bielefeld's defence to come and close down Forsberg, this leaves a sizeable gap for Yussuf Poulsen to run into.  Spotting the opportunity for a quick attack, Laimer launches the ball forward and Forsberg nods it on into the empty space behind the Bielefeld defence.  Poulsen beats Mike Van Der Hoorn for pace and his first time shot is low and hard to the goalkeeper's right.  The entire move, from front to back, took less than 13 seconds to complete.

FM21 interpretation: sweeper keeper (support), play out of defence, distribute to centre backs/over opposition defence

 

Season Summary

In my first season managing RB Leipzig our attacking ideology proved to be very successful winning 28 games and lifting the Bundesliga title.  We also scored the most goals, created the most goal scoring opportunities, had the highest xG and the second highest xP.  It also appears that attack really is the best form of defence as we conceded the fewest goals (less than 0.65 per game) and kept the most clean sheets.

Our champions league campaign was less successful as we got trounced by Liverpool in the quarter finals, however, we did top a difficult group that included Chelsea and Juventus.  We also overcame FC Porto with an aggregate score of 5-2 in the first knockout round.

 

[For Those Who Want Tactical Knowledge - Must Read!]

2 hours ago, frukox said:

I guess your roles for that side: MEZA WS WBA because it looks like you pinned CBS with a PA and right FB with IFA, right?

Pretty close 

I mostly used an MEZA, WS and IWBs on that right side... a player's decision making seems to be much better in this year's match engine; in the GIF you can see the IWB momentarily check inside (twice) before opting to hold their position in support of the winger.  By design, the winger is my designated 'wide' player on the right, an WB on the left.  Lyon are one of the best sides in Ligue 1 so I tend to play on an 'attacking' mentality with the tempo dialled down.  I also play wide in attack because I aim to stretch my opponents defence and create gaps.

 

2 hours ago, Sarriball14 said:

I know what I want but getting there is proving difficult. I’ve always been the type to default back to a downloaded tactic but this time I want more satisfaction out the game from creating something of my own. 
 

I want all the channels to be occupied when going forward. With James at right back he’s the perfect option for occupying the right flank, ziyech to operate in the half space on the right hand side cutting inside from the right flank, either a IW or AP

Werner or Abraham occupying the central channel, neither players are that good at linking up play so they are very role specific in my opinion. 

I want Havertz to be a goal threat from central midfield attacking the left half space so thinking either a CMa or MEZa and then as for Pulisic I want him to occupy the left channel and then cut inside the box late (I guess like sterling does for city)

Chilwell as IWB to cover the space vacated by Havertz.

So yeah I kind of know what I want but making it work is another thing :L

It's great that you’re working on your own tactics, I hope you're enjoying the change of approach.  You have a really clear idea of the attacking patterns you want from your players, which is great, watch games closely now and do you see these patterns in play.  Are you finding the set-up works as you wanted: are all 5 vertical channels occupied in attack with the IFs 'staying wide' as per his player instruction (and despite the team instruction to attack narrowly)?  Or do the players tend to bunch up in those central/half space channels, like this…

You might find you get given competing advice on forums, so don't take anything too literally... I'd suggest you experiment, make small tweaks and changes (one at a time, otherwise how do you know what alteration makes a difference); and test preconceived notions of how a particular role will perform - if you think the winger role is not going to give you what you want, i.e. he’s not going to cut in and he’ll cross the ball too much, try it and evidence to yourself that is the case before you rule anything out (you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised!)

 

1 hour ago, Hilly1979 said:

This is the kind of movement I look for, you see a lot of advice on here saying Mez link up well with IW as long as they are on different Duties but for me the Mez needs space to operate in and works better with the wide man staying wide.

I agree, although the great thing about FM is how varied tactics can be and combining the various player roles in different ways creates different patterns of play - throw  PPM's and TI's into the mix and the variation is huge.  Personally, I believe there's an advantage to be gained by stretching your opponents in your attack so I always look to employ at least one player on each flank to provide that width.  Like you, I think the Mezzala's positioning is great for taking advantage of this space.

[Revisiting Simplicity in Grassroots Tactics...in Mongolia]

An excellent read 

I too prefer a (purposeful) possession based approach and appreciate it can be a challenge implementing this style of play at lower levels but, as you're demonstrating, it's not impossible!  I'm looking forward to your next update.

[For Those Who Want Tactical Knowledge - Must Read!]

15 hours ago, Sarriball14 said:

Im thinking of something like this? Anything i should re consider?

It sounds like you know how you want your players to perform and, for me, visualising a style of play is the hardest part of putting together any tactic - once you can picture the patterns of play in your mind it simply a case of watching games to see if that is replicated out on the pitch.  Does the AML 'stay wide' in the transition like you hoped?  Are the players you expect to get into goal scoring opportunities doing so? Does your set-up take advantage of the right-sided overload (e.g. can you create a 1-on-1 opportunities on the left through a quick switch of play)?

I would never say this is the right way or wrong way to set-up a tactic, but when I'm using a Mezzala I like to stretch play on that side so he can ghost into space between the opponents central defender and fullback, for example:

Looking at your set-up I'm wondering if you see a lot of players in that left half-space at the same time (the IWB, IF and MEZ)?

 

[For Those Who Want Tactical Knowledge - Must Read!]

Inverted wingbacks can be really useful in achieving a 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 attacking shape; for example below my Lyon team are using different methods of creating width down each flank - with the full back on the left flank and the winger on the right.  The inverting right back allows our RCM to progress through the right half space and join the attack. This set-up provides some variation in our build-up patterns and we can flood the box when the ball is out wide (see GIF below)