JimmysTheBestCop

February 18

1 hour ago, Daveincid said:

Am I right that with a 49" monitor with an integrated kmv switch you can theoretically play Football Manager twice with one keyboard and mouse when you connect 2 devices (for example PC & Laptop) in dual monitor mode?

Technically you can just use sunshine/moonlight to stream the second FM to your primary computer with display

February 18

If you could add more then 50 players to a scouting report it eoukd improve things then you wouldn't even need scouting focuses. It is really inefficient and ineffective compared to manually doing it.

Manual however requires a billion clicks and more time.

The weird thing is if you manage a national team you can tell the scouts to scout everyone and aren't limited by the 50 player.

Hopefully this is redone in Unity and we won't be limited.

February 16

2 hours ago, podunkboy said:

judging from the Bugs forum, this was a problem last year that was never fixed, and apparently won't be fixed this year, either, so I guess I'm just going to have to manually schedule constant friendlies for the U21s.

Friendlies don't develop players

February 16

35 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

There still seem to be variables in that test that are unkown in their effect like tactics.

Was the morale of the opponents locked to a fixed value as well?

Did the teams have different players or were they cloned?

Was the test in a league environment or like a series of friendlies (that would make the test completely illegitimate)?

They could have as well created a self fulfilling prophecy with their test setup or a random number generator...

Download the test league and answer your questions

February 15

31 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Correct. Well said.

Imagine if people treated tests in a way that sought to help them arrive at the most accurate conclusion possible instead of defaulting to

- ad hominems

- instant dismissals

- claims that the answer is unknowable

etc etc etc

It is honestly why of all the FM communities bi frequentntge official forum is the place I visit the least.

I find the other communities a lot more friendly and able to have open discussions.

If you post anything about mrchsnics or tests or simulations or videos it is meant with instant passive aggressive hostility. Many just want to rush dismiss and defend fm when in reality no one is attacking fm or si.

It is a discussion of most effective and efficient mechanics.

Can you imagine on an rpg game forum people saying no we need Owl Cat or Larian to tell us the best build or what the best 2 handed weapon is.

That's what the community is for. Just because the holy avenger is the long sword and other long swords arwess optimal doesn't make it a bad or broken mechanic or a bad or broken game.

I find the attitude and atmosphere very strange on this forum and nithing like any other FM community. Very weird place

February 15

I never said anything about trying to make the game better. That wasnt on my objective list for posting. We should strive to fully understand all mechanics. What works and what doesnt. What is optimal and what is inefficient. We dont need Si for any of that.

I think when a lot of forum dwellers here see people posting tests and results they get defensive or think someone is trying to say the game is broke. I know I didnt say it was broke. Regardless if morale is the most impactful or least impactful mechanic is has nothing to do with a "broken mechanic". Obviously every mechanic will have a different impact level. We should be trying to uncover the what impact mechanics have and then what is the optimal way to do the thing.

Personally to me morale isnt impactful on my saves or the way I play the game. Obviously that isnt going to be the case for 100% of the users 100% of the time. Again the only place who ever did any kind of testing on morale was fm arena. Whether it is 100% valid or 100% invalid actually makes little difference. The important thing is there was thousands of matches with data and results. Maybe it will take 2 years to improve tests who knows. But I dont see anyone else doing things like that.

I swear when people treat fm-arena like they are vampires. People here the name get defensive and start defending anything. When most of the time people are just showing the results. It is a lot better to also join that community and help make tests better then sitting here and answering the same noob questions week in and week out.

For an official game forum general discussion is lucky to have a handful of interesting threads every 2 weeks. And as soon as real discussions breaks out we gotta worry about threads getting moved, buried or lock for off topic.

I see a lot of criticism of tests sites but not very many people willing to participate and help out the cause. Sometimes it is just a lot of hot air blowing.

February 14

What would Si do with any data? As far as video game developers go Si has to be the least communicative game developer I've ever seen or heard of.

I get dozens of games a year. And basically always have my whole life. But in the last decade the game making process is completely different.

Most small devs and some big are in constant contact with their user base through out all media platforms. And actively encourage player feedback and take it in while the game is being developed.

Honestly I've never seen Si open to criticism ever. I don't see them actively communicating anything.

Example any info on winter patch? Any info on fm25? On unity? On if it's just a graphic engine or the entire match engine has be redone? Was any code saved? Entire new code base? Any details about anything?

So please tell me what would Si do with any community data? I know other game devs seek out data and run their independent tests with out even being prompted.

I'm not attacking Si or their developers or their programming skill. But I will openly criticize their communication.

I mean when Zealand called Si out over dynamic youth Si responded like a kid who got their feelings hurt. I've seen them more defensive when presented with data or questions then welcoming. SI is always playing defense.

SI could be the best project management and coders at all of Sega but darn they are lousy communicators compared to the current video game scene. Why would anyone ever want to present Si with anything?

I can go on about how many users since the fm24 beta went live were complaining there was a problem with negative transfer budgets. Even uploaded saves. And for months were told it wasn't an issue only to finally get acknowledged in January that it was a bug. SI again was overly defensive and dismissive of it's user base. Bottom line.

Tbh we don't need Si to verify anything. You think just because they are devs they know more then the collective community?

Numerous gaming communities have proven time after time they know just as much as the devs. And time after time devs that are part of public traded companies lie. Not saying Si lies. But nearly every public traded company does.

Look at the mess of cities Skylines 2. Devs say oh yeah these mechanics work. Game simulation works. Then 100 fans prove it doesn't with video and hours and hours of game play. And Co the devs attack the community.

So I completely disagree we need Si to do anything. All game mechanics should be verified by the community. If a community tests aren't good enough as a community we should make them better.

You should strive to improve community testing. But usually what I see is people tearing down FM community tests. I've never seen anything like that in other gaming communities.

February 14

I'm not even bringing Si up or am I bringing up anything that truly broken.

I gave evidence my personal saves that morale and dynamics were irrelevant to my saves in both fm23 and 24 in long saves 2060 starting with a low build a nation save.

I then provided evidence from the only massive test every run on morale and posted the result table.

Personally I don't need Si to do or verify anything.

I'm sure morale makes an impact. But the question is if that impact is significant to the majority of the user base in the majority of saves. And is it worth real life time and millions of clicks in a 4 decade save.

My answer to that is no it's not worth. Maybe to someone else it is worth it. I don't think anyone is trying to prove something like morale is completely broken.

I'm discussing if impact of it has meaning and is worth bothering with.

Plus I gave evidence of holidaying. If morale and dynamics made heavy impact you could never holiday for and entire season and be successful.

You can test this. Make promises to everyone. Holiday the season, promises break, and other discussions fail. Dynamics and morale take a hit. Do you still win? Yes you do.

Again I'm not saying anything about it being broken or we need Si to look at it.

I'm saying it's not worth my real life time to pay attention too. Because in almost 2000 hours played over last 2-3 versions it has made bare minimum impact on my saves.

Maybe for new players or bad players morale makes more of an impact. But if you know how to play the game. I haven't seen it in my saves and the only tests ever done back me up.

February 14

Literally wasn't personal at all. I was stating how you were coming off in this particular thread. Not what your intentions were and not what kind of person you are.

The appearance of how a person comes off in a written forum isn't close to a personal statement about that person.

I was giving you a heads up on how you were looking.

Furthest thing from a personal attack.

February 14

Please then stop repeating yourself. But you are coming off looking bad man.

You are looking like some body that refuses to acknowledge any dirt of tests that isn't personally done.

What you are giving off is if you don't create it then it's not valid. You are looking super arrogant and super hard headed.

The way to disprove people is to use their tests and then create your own to test and see what happens.

If you aren't willing to do either why even comment on it. Just be like yeah they got data but I don't feel like looking at it.

Instead you are like no all of their data is bs and invalid. I don't like it. I don't want to look at it. No no. Stop asking. Dude that is how you are coming off.

we certainly know their top rated tactics are dominating. So they must have some kind of valid testing. Or it wouldn't work for tactics.

I also think it's very weird to dismiss or belittle the only community that is at least doing testing and making it public.

No other community is out there doing what they do on the level that do. Instead of belittling if you think you can be helpful why not actually try go be helpful to them.

Seems like you are more concerned with the game getting exposed. No game is perfect. Every game will get exposed. It doesn't change anything man

February 14

Not sure where you are getting 80 matches from but they use 38 match seasons. It says so right at the top of the link I first included

https://fm-arena.com/table/20-condition-morale-testing/

So maybe you should stop being so dismissive and download the test league?

Remember this is a tactic site that over pandemic started to do other things.

Even here where they describe some features they say if you want to know everything download the save file

https://fm-arena.com/thread/2712-fm-arena-tactic-testing-league/

February 14

8 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Because I expected a bit more as an answer than just "yes" without even one example

They have their test as a save you can download it and see for yourself.

If someone were to ask me 2 dozens questions about your realism mod there is no way I could summarize it up for a simple comment.

I would be like yeah it does a bunch it's great go try it. And I would refer them to the mod post with the details.

I feel like people treat FM arena like a vampire. When others point out yes their save is public. Yeah they are nice and answer questions. Yeah the answers are in their forum. No one goes there to do their own research. They just assume.

We aren't the mods or admin of FM arena no way we could recall the exacts of their tests. If I need to I usually have to pull out their forum and reread it.

Out of all the FM communities FM arena are easily the most thorough testers around. Nothing is ever going to be perfect unless you have dev tools for testing.

But as numerous gaming communities have shown countless times it's possible to have end user test to discover how mechanics of a game work.

February 14

17 minutes ago, lied90 said:

Would just like to add to this that purpose of FM arena is simply to find the optimal way to win, by knowing what works and what doesn't. People yelling "BROKEN" and "EXPOSED" isn't FM arena, it's people vising the site.

Very good point. They have their test league. They run the tests post the results and that is really it.

People that make a big deal and go over the top aren't the FM arena admins or testing guys. It's really not even their community members either.

It's some who clicked their from another community sees one table of results and looses their mind.

February 14

FM engine has been patched and hacked together for 20 years.

I would bet the farm that their isn't 1 employee at Si that truly understands the code 100%. It would be impossible. Employees come and go. You can have all the code notes and code bibles you want. But most of the time they are guessing.

And I'm sorry to inform you lot but I can thousands of game communities that know and have worked out things far beyond what the developers knew or even imagined.

This is done through testing game engines. Look at the Baldurs Gate 3 guys that completed the entire game in 10 minutes. Larian the developers had no idea it was possible and never even imagined it. Another completed it by sticking a msin character in a box and being able to skip to the end of game.

Cities Skylines 1 the developers never figured out traffic. Modders had too. Their sequel guess what still can't handle traffic released without mods and is sitting at 43% on steam.

The list goes on and on...

In FM arena case they have their test league as a save open for public download. And they are pretty nice and the sdmibs there answer any questions.

Honestly all I hear is hot air when it comes to disproving FM arena tests.

No one reruns their tests and no one devises thdur isn't tests to prove or disprove or counter the findings.

People just talk back and forth. While FM arena is one of the only communities actually testing mechanics. Doesn't matter if there tests are 100% or 60% valid. They are the only ones doing it.

Again if you think it's invalid why has no one tried to run their own tests to prove anything. FM arena has data the people that say its invalid show us your data

February 14

If morale made that much of an impact players would never be able to holiday with terrific results.

You holiday for an entire season you will mostly fail all of the morale checks by default. Your assistant will not do transfer or contracts or squad status or worry about keeping promises you made.

YouTube is filled with creators holidaying entire seasons and still greatly overachieving with underdog clubs. If morale was so vital this wouldn't be possible as often as is happening out in the wild.

And there is still no data proving morale is actually vital to our clubs seasons. If it's not vital then it's not making an impact. If it doesn't make an impact it's not worth doing.

February 14

34 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

Well, i had for example a morale break down after i lost a cup match and then lost the following 4 matches as well until i managed to recover, that alone makes the FM Arena test already uconvincing and to many variables about the test are unknown too.

The Season was already around 2/3 played i think and i had 1 or 2 lossses b4 that happened - i have already more points lost in that 4 matches than the mentioned simulation over a season.

And honestly i dont trust simulations do getting the best out of a team - thus i stil am very unconcvinced about that!

Because you example is convincing? I've literally never have lost 5 matches in a row in any version of FM ever.

Blaming morale is a good way to avoid responsibility and admitting it was your fault.

I also gave a personal example of never paying attention to it 2 versions.

But both our examples are anecdotal. While FM arena did 75 seasons per morale category.

I love how evidence and data are always unconvincing to people lmao

Has anyone ever tested or experimented to show morale making a large impact? Or should we just go with your 5 match example.

I mean 5 matches. Good enough for me. Case closed. You did it. Solved the mystery.

February 13

Morale seems to be overrated and have minimal effect on the bottom line. Especially for the amount of time it takes up

https://fm-arena.com/table/20-condition-morale-testing/

In over 10k matches, each morale tested in 2880 matches the difference from best to worst morale was 5 points a season.

So until anyone else comes here and shows results over 10k matches I'm gonna have to go with FM arena morale findings.

Does it effect things? Yes. Is it a major impact? No.

Anyone who says it's a major impact bring out the tests, data, and evidence.

Edit

Personal experience I haven't paid attention to morale or team dynamics and ive skipped ever player interaction in both fm23 and fm24.

Fm23 played build a nation in Hungary to 2060

Fm24 in Andorra in 2040.

It has never stopped me from dominating ucl.

February 13

I can manually scout at least 3000 players a season. Only problem it takes a million clicks.

The scouting focus is so inefficient compared to doing it manually.

I also haven't seen scouts actually able to increase their knowledge from scouting nation's like they were able to before scouting focuses.

Whatever scouting focuses tried to achieve is anyone guess. The old scouting mechanic seemed to be more effective and a lot easier for noobs to setup.

Honestly seems to be a mechanic that wasn't fully done baking then forgot about in fm24 because it's exactly the same as 23

February 9

11 hours ago, CaptainSa said:

Those experiments tell you nothing except that if you put in unrealistic attributes you get unrealistic results.

Video games aren't realistic. Stop brining up real life football it's irrelevant. We are discussing how FM mechanics work and not how real world mechanics work.

Is Haaland physical attributes unrealistic? He is basically 18 at everything.

I'll bet my salary for a month you never deep dived and read FM arenas testing methodology their tests results or conclusions. Not to mention the extreme Chinese findings of 1ca players.

Maybe you don't know about video games? That is how you test video games. Because when the public gets the games they will do anything they can to find loopholes, glitches, broken mechanics etc. They will run any game through extremes to test it every which way.

If you think tests like that show nothing because of realism then again it's obvious you know nothing about video games.

FM is a video game. It is not real world football.

Look at these morale findings over 2800 matches for each morale

https://fm-arena.com/table/20-condition-morale-testing/

5 point difference from best to worst morale on the average of each morale tested at 2880 matches.

And you are going to say it's balanced? Does it impact the match engine. Sure 5 point difference. But it's meaningless to even pay attention to it for so little gains in the majority of situations.

February 8

How could the match engine be balanced when several 3rd party testing communities have confirmed year after year acceleration and pace are most impactful to match engine for every version. And the 3rd best attribute is miles behind.

Our only hope is fm25 hopefully it was built from ground up and has new ideology

February 5

Every tycoon becomes easy once figured out.

You play FM for things like story or doing one of the challenging save ideas.

Just because FM becomes easy doesn't mean it cannot provide you with an extreme challenge.

February 1

Attributes under best conditions possible you are looking at 3-4 points on the average. That is it.

Remember as they age training is less n less important.

January 30

This dude is busting out the lawyers over attributes. Freakin love it man lmao

January 28

On 27/01/2024 at 00:50, dubbed5 said:

I reinstalled FM13 and did a quick testing.

I picked the team predicted to finish 10th in the PL, Aston Villa.

I set up a simple 4-1-4-1 defensive tactic:
-Defensive mentality, rigid philosophy
-Deep defensive line, hold position, stand off (no pressing)
-More direct passing, slow tempo, counter attack on

Holidayed until end of the year, ticking on "use current tactic".
The team sat at a decent 7th place:

As you would expect from such a tactic, they had solid, reliable defense.
And they didn't score much (besides 2 lucky games against Reading and Q.P.R.).

FM13 felt like a tactical simulator, with balanced tactical styles. It was all logical.
Basically, ANY tactical style worked as long as you had the right players.
You could replicate almost any team's playing style.

I jumped back to FM24, using the same tactic with the 10th predicted PL team, West Ham.

Well, by the time I came back from my 6-month-long Hawaiian vacation, I was already sacked:

Notice zero clean sheets in the PL, often conceding 3-4 goals.

Okay, I decided to start a new save and test one of the official preset tactics.
These were made by SI games; surely they know what they are doing.
I picked the catenaccio, as I loved playing that style in FM13:

Logic would tell us that playing such a compact defensive formation, with defensive mentality will result in good defense.
Well, FM24 match engine disagrees:

Actually I was sacked earlier this time.
Look at those results, 0-4, 1-4, 0-4, 0-3. Oh my...

I was curious what happens if I use the mighty gegenpressing tactic with the same team:

Surprise, surprise, not only did I still have a job by the end of the year, but West Ham actually overachieved:

The funny thing is, even though playing a high tempo, high d-line attacking football as a mid-level team, they had a very solid defense:

Playing on defensive mentality and slow tempo is suicide in FM24.
Basically, sitting back and absorbing pressure doesn't work anymore.
The match engine is seriously unbalanced.
Use high tempo, pressing, balanced/positive/attacking mentality and you will overachieve.
Try anything else, and it's a struggle.

The guys at fm-arena did tons of testing, millions of simulated games in fair testing league.
The results are really eye-opening.

I actually think both of the defensive tactics would work with the mentality set to balanced.

I think you would still play strong defensive and score some.

Once below balanced you have almost zero shot at getting any goals and if the formation and instructions are also defensive you will end up giving up 1 or 2 goals. Unless your players are all world class.

Feel like running the same test with balanced?

I do feel fm24 favors the attacking mentality regardless of formation and instructions though. But I think you can make balanced work

January 28

Do the players actually play matches if not then they can't be scouted per match

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