Kkizza
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Posts posted by Kkizza
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1 hour ago, The #9.5 said:
Italy is, tactically, the most impressive teams in the Euros so far. So I really enjoyed their game. Here's my interpretation of them:
- Florenzi: he wasn't a proper inverted FB as he rarely spent time in MF zone. With Barella tasked to provide roam towards the right, Florenzi was needed to stay a bit deeper and be a passing option during the early build-up play. But once Italy progressed the ball forward and were deep in Turkey's half, Florenzi provided late runs to further stretch the play. So I think WB/s with sit narrower TI should suffice. If he is bombing forward too early with that role, FB/s with the same TI is the alternative.
- Bonucci: despite him being clearly the more cultured CB compared to Chiellini, it was Bonucci actually playing the more reserved role here. This was because Florenzi was the actual link-play in the deep zones over that channel, so Bonucci was a simple CB/d in my view.
- Chiellini: the one who was tasked to step out of the back and either carry or pass the ball into the midfield zone down the left channel. This was because of the different roles of the FBs: with the LB being more attacking and getting high up early on, Chiellini was needed to be the link man (alongside Locatelli). BPD/d role with 'bring ball out of the back' PPM is needed.
- Spinazzola: proper WB/a and as he was always up and down the flank and enjoyed the freedom to use it all by himself (Insigne was roaming infield).
- Jorginho: with Turkey applying little pressure he didn't drop in between the CBs at all, predominantly staying just ahead and was closer to the CMs. So A DLP/d role with 'more risky passes' and possible 'more direct passes' should be enough.
- Locatelli: the 'in-between' passer, as I like to call the middle CM in a 1-2 triangle. Again with Turkey sitting deep and leaving plenty of space in midfield, I'd say he was more of a AP/s than a DLP/s. He didn't venture too forward (that was Barella's task) nor dropped deep (there was no need with Chiellini and Jorginho having easy time to progress the ball forward), so AP/s role should do it.
- Barella: proper Mezz/s role. He was the in-between player between Florenzi and Berardi, doing the link up down the right channel and freezing Berardi to roam infield freely.
- Berardi: I think it's between IW/a or IF/a. The former will replicate his wider positioning and that he often stayed wider to combine with Barella. The latter will replicate his diagonal runs and his attacking onus better. Perhaps some merging of the two (using one of the roles and applying Tis) is the best bet here.
- Insigne: proper IF/s but we need exact replication of his skills set and PPMs for this role to act exactly like him. He was quasi-playmaker, winger and attacker all into one.
- Immobile: very specific role too. He was more often than not staying high up to pin the defence back and leave more space for the CMs and wingers to operate between the lines; roamed the channels to further move the defence around and open up gaps. But he also sometimes dropped deep to lure defenders with him and open up space for the wingers to dart infield. I think A-duty role is needed but not really attacking one. So it's either DLF/a or PF/a but both need 'moves into channels' and probably 'roam from position' to further replicate his movement.
QuoteItaly is, tactically, the most impressive teams in the Euros so far. So I really enjoyed their game.
I certainly agree, they looked perfectly drilled and knew exactly what their role was in that team.
Thank you for the detailed writeup it really helps picture the tactic and the understanding of each role, I will try replicate this and see how it goes, my biggest issue will be trying to find a player similar to Insigne as he's quite a unique player and annoyingly I didn't invest in a left winger before the season started as I wasn't planning on using one (woops!)
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2 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:
Have not seen the game as of yet so I'm just working off the second link provided by @Jean0987654321 for the following shape (I've flipped it so the left side is the threat as you want)
CF(A)
IF(Su) IW(A)
Mez(Su) CM(Su)
DLP(De)
CWB(A) CD(De) CD(De) IWB(De)SK(De)
IF(Su): Sit Narrower
CM(Su): Move Into Channels or Roam From Position
Left CB: Stay wider
No idea on TIs per not having seen the match.
Thank you for this I will test this out and see how I like it, in regards to the left CB staying wider is this so he covers more of the empty space from the LB or is it to make the back line shift over a bit more?
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3 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:
Some extra reading on Italy's tactics
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/italy-turkey-euro-2020-tactics-mancini-b1864558.html
https://pythagorasinboots.com/italy-euro-2020-tactical-analysis/
I think it is tough to emulate the way they play as you can only focus one side of the field in FM. They use the whole field instead of one side. When one fb goes forward, the other stays back. Kind of reminds me of how fbs used to play back in the days. Tough to emulate that now in this game (maybe WB (auto) with Hold Position)?
Brilliant thank you I will definitely give them a read!
I tried to emulate that with the IWB-D on the right side which in my mind I was hoping to create almost a back three but I'm not 100% how that role actually operates and I think it tends to roam into the midfield area? I could definitely try a WB (auto) with Hold Position
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7 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Looking at the tactic, I have to agree (unfortunately). Simply because it really looks unbalanced, disjointed and incoherent.
Once again you are right.
I don't know which tactical style you want to recreate (and btw I am not much into tactical replications of real-life teams anyway), so I can only tell you what in my view is wrong in your tactic and how that can be improved by certain tweaks. If that's what you want, please let me know.
QuoteQuoteLooking at the tactic, I have to agree (unfortunately). Simply because it really looks unbalanced, disjointed and incoherent.
Unfortunately I knew this deep down and it was really hammered home when I play someone good and didn't even compete!
QuoteI don't know which tactical style you want to recreate (and btw I am not much into tactical replications of real-life teams anyway), so I can only tell you what in my view is wrong in your tactic and how that can be improved by certain tweaks. If that's what you want, please let me know.
I wanted to try and make my LB the main threat of my team and have him in constant acres of space on that side and then have my team switch the ball to him where he could either have a run at goal or pick out a cross. (almost like a left winger perhaps?). Yes please I would love to see what tweaks you would make
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After watching the Italy vs Turkey game and seeing how much space Italy's left back and how he was a costant threat I wanted to try and replicate a similar formation and style on FM.
I have made the below tactic and it does seems to work (I think?) as my left back has the highest rating on my team so far this season however whenever I go against similar/better oppoenents than me I just get steamrolled, I understand that I'm not supposed to win everygame etc but with the players I have it just feel like I should be much more competitive in these matches.
I feel like my teams skill has carried me rather than the actual tactic.
Personally I think i'm overthinking how you would create this playstyle on FM and It's probably a lot simpler than what i have tried to make, if anyone has any suggestions on tweaks/how they would actually create this system then please do let me know
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3 hours ago, prched55 said:
If your tactic is successful, why would you want to change it?
But my suggestion is it seems like you're playing two different styles. You've got some roles and TIs for a counter attacking style (pass into space, distribute quickly, TM on attack, wing backs on attack) and some other roles and TIs for possession play (play out of defense, overlaps, counter-press, distribute to center backs, two playmakers close to one another). So if I were to change this tactic I would either play it a full counter attacking style or a fully possession depending on your players and how you expect the opposition to set up.
I personally love the target man so as long as Mariano has the attributes for it (strength, balance, off the ball, jumping reach, work rate), you can still use him there. Target men need space and support to be successful. You're playing with a high LOE and he is on attack. Most likely what is happening is he is surrounded by players when he is being passed the ball so he either loses it quickly or doesn't even receive it. So think about how you can get your TM more support and more space.
Well I'm keen to learn more about the game and formations etc so if there was any obvious changes then I'd like to know what they are and then fix them to make the tactic better, for example I wasnt aware I had conflicting playstyles in my tactic so it's good to learn that.
In regards to the target man what changes would you reccomend to get him more involved?
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3 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:
They will already do that without instructions. The best advice I can give is: toggle everything, see how the players play then add instructions if needed. The most important things in this game (imho) are player positioning in the field (you want to cover most of the field without leaving spaces when you project you team in offense or when you press), roles (BBM, Mezzala, etc.), and attitude (defend, support, attack); these three makes the most out of your play. See how players react then change those three things accordingly, after that you can begin to add instructions (only if needed), individual too. Don't overdo or you will unbalance it.
Be careful to not leave spaces when your WB go ahead; you can make one more offensive than the other, so one go up while the other down-shift when needed (in Italy we call it 'scalare di posizione').
Will try to. Generally I explain after if requested.
Thanks for the tips, I have basically removed most of the TI's and I'll slowly add/remove things and see how it all changes and go from there as I was probably overdoing it.
I had them both on attack as I think 1 DLP and 3 CB's should be good enough cover but I'll look at having two on different duties
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6 hours ago, herne79 said:
If you give advice, we try to encourage people to explain why you consider things to be unneeded or needed as that can help understanding
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TIs and PIs are primarily there to help you define / refine certain styles of play or specific requirements (such as a high defensive line or heavier than normal pressing for example).
When you select a Mentality it preselects a whole bunch of TIs so adjusting them further may not be needed (or ref. my first sentence). It also adjusts individual player mentality which you can view on their individual player instruction screens. So (for example) a Wingback (support) combined with a Defensive Mentality will have a lower individual mentality than if you were using the Attacking Mentality. Thus your Wingback's (or other player's) willingness to make forward runs will be affected by your chosen Mentality.
Your Duty selection will also impact your player's willingness to make forward runs. Above you are using Wingback (attack) so they'll be flying up the pitch anyway.
This is a long winded way of saying only add in tactical instructions if you see a need to, not just because you may think you need to - and consider how Mentality affects your players
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Hmm yeah I think I was probably overdoing it with the TI's and telling players to do what their roles will make them do anyway.
I've never really thought about the mentality and what individual changes it makes to the players only the TI's I've really thought about when switching it so I'll take into account going forward!
Thanks for your help
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11 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:
It's useless to put so much instructions on the match engine. Overlap with who? You have no wings, WB will definitely go up anyway (also you can put WB to Support since you are uncovered in the defensive phase, they will still go up while you are now prone to counterattacks).
I find individual instructions more important than team instructions. Strikers already shoot, that will mean that they will shoot even against defenders and at akward positions.
The only reason I put overlap on was so my WB's would fly up the pitch and be a main outlet for the ball out wide but I suppose they'll do that normally anyway, in regards to counter and counter-press should I just leave them both blank?
Is there any vital or obvious player instructions to add and should I change my strikers roles or are they fine?
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3 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:
Overlap: Unneeded.
Low crosses: Unneeded.
Play out of defence: Unneeded.
Distribute to Centre: Unneeded.
Counter: Unneeded.
Counter-Press: No.
Higher-Line of Engagement: No.
Get Stuck In: No.
More Urgent: No.
Individual instructions counts a lot too, that's half the story.
I wasnt aware all of them selected would be an issue, would it be too long winded to explain why i should unselect all of these? As for individual instructions i have almost none selected apart from the strikers to shoot more and zaha to dribble more, thanks though i will give it a try
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This is a tactic I made pretty quickly and it has been quite sucessful for me so far but i would like to know if there are some obvious changes i could make to improve it, im keen to learn more about how roles work on players and what partnerships match up well, if anyone has any tips or suggestions on what i should change and why, please can you let me know.
Also i cannot get Mariano to score or assist at all and almost every game he has a low rating but I dont know what I can change to get him performing better, I do have him set to target man which i know probably isn't ideal as he's only 5"11 but im not sure what role to change him to that will suit his partner an advanced forward.
Thanks
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Overload CWB Help
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Brilliant thank you I will definitely give this a go as the players I have at my disposal fit these roles perfectly, I'm relieved I can still achieve this playstyle without a LW as I currently lack one at my club!