Nes1995
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Posts posted by Nes1995
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been trying to emulate Mourinho for a while now defending in a 442 and attack in 4231 results have been good so far
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3 hours ago, TehGoatLord said:
In a nutshell, I have a lot of pace to burn but no space to run.
this is normal against defensive opponents, the first formation the roles isn't 2 bad but definitely could improve the second formation i can see a few problems and i would recommend looking at this thread will help you a lot
even in attacking systems you still need the right balance up front i would recommend you swapping either your inside forward to support or your striker to support to offer more support, but be aware if you do swap your inside forward to support i wouldn't use DLF as a striker
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4 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:
That is the conundrum though isn't it. You want structure but if you have too much you end up with lots of 0-0s...or in my case, potential 0-0s so you up the tempo, directness and width and then end up losing 1-0
sometimes its not about upping the risk and about analysing your opponents weakness for example in your tactic you have zaniolo as IF a, but your opponent might be playing with a defensive left back so you have to adapt sometimes, this is why its always good to have more then 1 tactic
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When you play with a DLF as a striker he is not going to be your main goal scorer if you do want him to score more thou you could change Zaniolo to and IW support or IF S and dzeko to maybe a poacher or pressing forward A
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hey the main problem with your tactic is that you have no real runners with only your IW Attack as the only runner you might struggle creating chances,
i would try changing your AP a to maybe a cm A or even Mezzala A see what works best,
would also change your Right Full back to a wingback support or change your IW attack to Support and make your right full back into a more attacking role
to keep a playmaker in the midfield would also change your cm S to a supporting playmaking role
in terms of Team instructions its not 2 bad but i would remove defend narrower this instruction works best for defensive systems or when your CBs are really good in the air,
if your team is getting hit on the counter attack often i would try an offside trap and if that doesn't work then I'm afraid your defenders just isn't good enough to play a high line
see what works best with your team
try these changes and report back
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4 minutes ago, Bot Makel said:
It is not true that the AI discovers your actic, it will get defensive because you have more reputation. You just need to find better ways to destroy the defenses.
And that's what you did.
It is not true that a fake 9 does not work in general. It may not work in certain situations.I'm not saying the false 9 doesn't work, it works beautifully but its easier to nullify a f9 on the centre of the pitch then it is to nullify a playmaker on the flank, there is more defence duties in the centre then there is on the flanks unless the Ai use a defensive winger
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1 minute ago, Keyzer Soze said:
In your system, i would probably change the right inverted winger to a winger on suport to give a little more width in attack.
Now, i agree with you that your system is balanced, but you are only showing the formation, roles and duties.
And what about the team and player instructions? Are you choosing the right instruction to face a team that, like you said, is clearly the underdog defending and playing mainly on the counter
And on top of that, do you have the right players to play those roles?
With that formation, and against defensive teams, you will pretty much camp on the opponent midfield, so your players must be in constant movement to get space, attributes like of the ball, vision, composure, decisions are vital.
I used that system with ajax squad and It worked for a couple of games until the Ai found out my system, I had more success using a playmaker on the flanks then in the centre because the playmaker has more space on the flank then he does in the central area especially against teams who park the buss
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Hi and welcome, I've recently had a foot injury from work and I've had a lot more time in my hands then normal and I wanted to share and explain to people how I play this amazing football game because there's only one reason why we are here and that is our love for football.
I'm going to show you an example why false 9 systems struggle in FM 20
Here we have a typical system with a False 9, there's nothing wrong with this system its well balanced
The opposition as you can see is clearly the underdog defending and playing mainly on the counter.
Now can you tell me why this system would struggle against the opponents system?
Spoiler
If you have answered, the false 9 will struggle to make an impact and the IF A will struggle as well then you have answered correctly.
Generally playing with a false 9 this player becomes the main creator of your team.
This is one of the reasons why you don't see the false 9 dropping deep enough or having bad ratings simply because HE HAS NO ESPACE! what can he do 1 vs 4?
You will see a lot of wasted shots and most of your play will be focused on the flanks
So how could you improve or change this ?
You could change the IW to a IF A and swap CM A to a BtBM perhaps for more penetration but the same problem will happen the F9 is locked in a cage "as mourinho would say"
Remember the F9 is hard coded to attract the ball and players will always look for him but if he cant join the play then the role becomes useless.
How do I create good football worth watching something that looks pleasing to the eye.
After playing this game for so long I become abscessed with making the F9 work some games it would work and my team would play nice football then some games my team was winning with individual efforts from players or set pieces nothing pleasing to the eye.
I kept saying to my self I WANT TEAM EFFORT GOALS HOW HOW HOW
For that I had to Evolve as a coach if the opponent adapts to my tactic I must create new ways to make my playmaker shine and connect the system just like pep him self and even Klopp you sometimes see klopp placing salah up front and firmino in the AM slot.
Example of how I create a tactic that connects everything and make sexy football
Spoiler
Its a more attacking system then a possession type but
Look how much more space your playmaker has.
When you play a playmaker in any kind of system they become ball magnets so this is why I put the BWM next to him he will help him out with support and if the AP looses the ball the BWM will be there to apply pressure straight away to stop the opponent from counter attacking
team instructions I always keep it simple, I ask my self what type of football do I want to play.
Example: If I want to play attacking football I use, positive mentality, higher tempo, play out of defence, counter counter press, higher defensive line. There's plenty other instructions but this MY main ones. At the end of the day player roles and more important and is what decides what type of football your team plays.
In terms of pressing you must be wondering what I do
Before I use to give all my front players "close down more" but now its different
I ask my CFA to close down more, my Winger s to close down more and that's all
Remember you want balance in your system.
I want my attacking players to be in good positions to attack
Its a short topic but I just wanted to share my knowledge to everyone who has struggled this year because the way this game is going it's turning into more realistic every year and I don't think its going to change so we all must adapt and evolve our self's
I would love to see what football you guys create, Any questions please ask I will do my best to answer <3
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I think these very fluid systems require really good players at least in fm 20 but copying these ideas into the Barcelona team i got some very fluid goals so far, it required the team to learn the tactic to become good
a nice overload goal
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Hey everyone this is my first time creating a topic in this forum but im really exciting to share my tactical experience with you guys and show you some wonderful stuff
this post has helped me a lot and a lot of the ideas have come from here
@Experienced Defender also learned a lot from experienced defender mainly the defensive side of football and how to make your team rock solid in the defence
also using Total football analysis from YouTube helped a lot
Klopp, the genius on counter pressing and counter attacking football!
1:Pressing systems
During his time in Dortmund, his style of play was a lot different from what it is now.
Klopp's Dortmund focused on transition moments, his approach was to quickly press the opposition after loosing the ball this is obviously called "Gegenpressing" and after winning it back to quickly transition from defence to attack but in order to execute this properly his team had to play a narrow shape and this is why in his Dortmund team he tended to play or regain possession more through one side of the pitch.
as you can see in this picture they were focusing play down the right side of the pitch and pressing there also.
At Liverpool Klopp's pressing approach became even more proactive with sometimes also using a mid-press mainly to set up pressing traps, Horizontal passes are also a pressing trigger. They use the wingers (mane, salah) to start the press by forcing the centre backs to play into central areas but in order to do this he had to change his formation to a 4-3-3.
forcing teams to go central and eventually forcing them to go long.
2: Attacking what changed for Klopp when he joined Liverpool
Attacking at Dortmund was easier then attacking with Liverpool, because Dortmund was a bit more passive, teams played more aggressive against Dortmund allowing Klopp to create majority of their chances from counter attacks.
Klopp was forced to improve his tactics he could no more use a narrow attacking shape with players shifting towards one side of the pitch.
So he changed by overloading the central areas of the pitch and the half spaces and position 1 winger in each side.
here the central midfielders are the key for allowing your fullbacks to get up really high, this is very similar to peps inverted full backs but instead Klopp uses his midfielders to play this role instead of his full backs.
very simple why this is because Arnold and Robertson are a lot stronger out wide their crossing abilities and pace are just to good to be put in the midfield.
Teams have to be really good to play against these types of system because they have to choose to either give up central areas of the pitch or cover wide areas either way one of them will be free and with these type of players available you will get punished for it.
3: The tactic! "This is probably the closest I've got to replicating a real life tactic"
It might not be perfect but its pretty damn close and the results are just unreal
As you can see in this picture Wijnaldum like the inverted wingback is covering the left side for Roberston and Henderson will do the same if we are playing on the right side of the pitch but I've giving Henderson a bit more freedom to get in the box especially against park the buss teams.
The counter pressing system
Its very hard to create a pressing trap like liverpool in FM at least from my experience (if someone knows please teach me!)
The pressing can change sometimes just like Klopp does as well if I see a team who is playing from the back I rise my Defensive line to "much higher" and a "Higher line of engagement"
But if teams are playing more direct and not playing from the back I change this to "higher defensive line" and a "normal line of engagement"
I most of the time never use prevent short goal keeper distribution I feel this turns my pressing from my front 3 to aggressive giving the opponent a quicker passing option to their full backs
The front 3
reason for the front 3 was simple
1: Pressing was way better especially using roles like pressing forwards these are roles built for Gegenpressing
2: I want my front 3 inside the box and using the half spaces
3: gives my wing backs even more room
I've played 19 games so far with this tactic and salah is my top goal scorer with 15 goals, with Mane as my second best scorer with 12 goals, firmino with 9 scored
The midfield 3
Ball winning midfielders again a role built to win the ball back quickly
Wijandum with defence duty simple because Roberston is more attacking I want him to cover that space
Instructions: "Stay wider" note he has "hold position" built into the role so it gives him the position we seen earlier in the post
Henderson another BWM but this time as support he does the same thing but sometimes he pops into the box after Robertson crosses and scores some awesome goals
Instructions: "Stay wider", "Shot less often", "drible less"
Fabinho his the heartbeat of the team usually the player giving those killer balls to Roberston on the left for the cross
No PI's
The back four
Simple back 4 especially for the type of players Liverpool have it makes sense
Arnolds WB
Instructions: More direct passing, cross more often, cross from deep
And this is also why I went with BPD on the left simple because "More direct passing" on Arnold " by the way Arnold has 23 assists in 19 games"
A lot of my goals have come from Counter attacks and crosses
Team instructions I play around with some games but I mainly only change the out of possession like I mentioned in the "The counter pressing system"
Hope everyone enjoys reading this and feel free to ask questions.
Go test this out with other teams like I said I've only played 19 games with this tactic but so far its unstoppable
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in my experience PFa works better then a AF as a lone striker yes
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So obviously you can always try up the mentality but I think the problem is the AFa role is not the best as lone striker
keep your back line as it is I think theres no problems there
PFa
IWs Ws
BBM APA
or
PFa
IWs Ws
DLPs CMa
PFa
IWs Ws
APs CMa
PFa
IWs Ws
BBM APa
all these can work but its all depending on the players you have for the roles but give one of these a try and see how it goes
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theres a few ways to get higher possession against teams who just pass around:
1.You can try an even more aggressive press in your front 3 players I tend to "press more" and "tackle harder" it can work but sometimes it can be to aggressive but it can work
2. look at scout reports I find the teams I lose possession to are the ones playing on a low mentality especially "defensive" mentality so I tend to go into these games by lowering the mentality of my own team go "balanced" so your players take less risk and keep hold of the ball longer before attempting an attack
3. Your tactic is not bad but you have no playmaker in your tactic so your players will naturally play a higher tempo football without a playmaker, try witsel as DLP on support and move CMd to your right midfielder and change your IFS to inverted winger you can even change Hakimi to FBA
see how it goes!
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You have to think and ask your self if the AMC is doing what you want him to do, if so its not a problem and if the tactic is working its ok
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in my opinion having played in a few teams in the German league.... its hard to play possession football because of gengenpress a lot of teams do it there
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so I've tried the pre set (fluid counter attack) and it just doesn't seem to work, at least i'm not seeing what I want to see, for example winning the ball in our third then running at them with pace with short passes, most of the time when we win the ball back my players just hoof it up field like they are clearing the ball from danger.
currently playing with lille in the French division, I watched videos on how they set up their tactic (last years Lille with Pepe) and Im trying to recreate somewhat close to their style which to me looks close to a fluid counter attack not sure if possible but this kind of football really is amazing to watch if anyone has tips on how I can recreate something like this id appreciate it
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If you have answered, the false 9 will struggle to make an impact and the IF A will struggle as well then you have answered correctly.
A guide to defending like a real 442
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by Nes1995
DLFS
SS
IWA DLPS BWMS WA
FBS CB CB FBS
GK
Mentality: Positive
In possession : Play out of defence
In transition: Regroup, Counter
Out of possession: Force opposition outside, Lower line of engagement, Get stuck in, Use tighter marking and much less pressing
I think the less pressing urgency is the key for the team to maintain the shape. The SS pushes up to form a 442 and he will go to whatever side the ball is at.