camoulton21

I don't quite think I do understand. I'm not going to use an attack duty on my fullbacks because that would encourage them to get forward quite early in the build-up phase which isn't what I want. That's why I was thinking of using a more forward thinking (I can see how me saying "more aggressive" can be confusing) role ahead of my fullbacks as appose to the carrilero role, so that I still have some attacking thrust down that side of the pitch Noted

Thanks for the reply, I not sure if all your suggestions help me to achieve my goal of a Giampaolo style tactic but I do think I've taken a lot from your post. This tweak for instance makes sense but would probably have the left back getting forward earlier than what I'd like. I might change the Carrilero role to something more aggressive because of this I like this idea because the CF support has dribble more as a PI which doesn't always help in a narrow formation as the midfield gets congested leaving little space to dribble in, like you said This is the part where I think I learnt something more clearly. I've heard a lot on the forums that less is more in the Tactics Creator and my posts from earlier have a lot of different ideas to all try and include together which can be confusing. I think Rashidi said that the most important area of the tactics is your LOE/D-Line and Passing Directness, so I've simplified the tactic a little more to basically just these instructions and then I can add what seems necessary from there I'd like to ask another question as well. Because the formation is narrow I'm struggling currently from defending crosses. The Giampaolo's real life teams defend the central and half spaces primarily but also offset the weakness in the formation by shuffling across aggressively to close down the wide areas. How would I achieve this? My initial idea was to use Opposition Instructions to specifically press this area of the pitch after reading a post on strikerless (https://strikerless.com/2017/06/20/opposition-instructions-pressing-triggers-and-pressing-traps/). Am I on the right track or is there a better way to go about this?

Hey guys, back again and in need of some more advice with my tactic. The results from the last version of the tactic haven't been great and neither has the football. From watching the games the style of play still doesn't seem quite right and is what I'd like some help with. Like my first post I'll list the key points I want to emulate below. Verticality - especially through the centre where the team usually holds a numerical advantage Methodical Build Up - circulate the ball horizontally until passing lanes vertically become available Combination play - aided by a short passing style, compact shape to give close options, players willing to move for one another and a pass first mentality Vertical and fast counter attacks Narrow and Compact shape - strong occupation of the middle and half spaces encourages opposition to play in the wide areas Pressing - in oppositions half, from opposition goal kicks, and when the ball goes wide (this is probably the most important part as we've struggled to defend crosses) AMC screens in front of the midfielder trio, usually tightly marking opposition deepest midfielder Here's the tactic as I have it atm Giampaolo's style of play aligns closest to the Vertical Tiki-Taka preset if that helps.

That's good to here! I'm going to stick with that tactic like this for awhile and see if everything is working as planned. I think that's the biggest weakness of the 4-3-1-2 formation, and probably why it isn't very popular. Because the formation is narrow it naturally depends on the fullbacks a lot and other players to create situational width. The issue is that the fullbacks cannot be given overly aggressive roles because they'd leave the CBs isolated and channels exposed, prime for a counter attack. Usually people use a DM to offset this weakness and allow the fullbacks to get forward freely but the formation doesn't have one. This is why Giampaolo uses more conservative fullbacks than you would imagine, to offer the team greater stability. In real life the fullbacks are meant to alternate when they attack depending on which side the ball is on and build-up play by staying deep in a line of 4. They still overlap and attack, but prefer to do so by making runs from deeper starting positions, as appose to getting to far ahead of the ball. Whilst I'm going to stick with the fullback roles as is, this is probably the part of the tactic I'm most unhappy with as I'm not sure if either fullback role satisfies these requirements. I thought if I gave the thread a more punchy title more people would click on it to help me out

Thanks for the advice guys. I've come up with this so far Connell probably isn't the best option at Carrilero but my other better option is injured. Despite the role suitability not being great, I'd say that Nygren can play CF because of his natural creativity. I would also like to ask for some help/advice with getting the Mentality and Team Instructions right but I will leave that until I finish messing around with the different role combinations

I've read a Spielverlagerung article based on Giampaolo's Empoli team (Team Analysis: Empoli - Spielverlagerung) and would like to replicate what I've learnt into FM. I am struggling to get the structure of team right and would like some help with that. What I'm looking to do is get the Formation/Player Roles/Player Duties/Player Instructions right. From what I've learned these are the key structural elements from Giampaolo's Empoli: The fullbacks have a deep starting position when the team is building-up play and then make forward runs when the ball is safely played into midfield The middle MC is a key player for the team as the primary ball progressor The wider MCs more laterally to open space to play centrally and also to make an option for the deep fullbacks to pass down the line The STCs attack the channels but also make receiving movements to get on the ball - kind of working in tandem And this a picture of how these type of movements would work in relation to the base formation. Spielverlagurug usually include this kind of image themselves when they make similar articles on other teams. Because they didn't, I made my own. Hopefully it's somewhat similar to what they would have done. Thanks in Advance!

@Experienced Defender has given some really good points on making a more effective tactic, but my interpretation of what might be going wrong is a little different. If you're trying to play a Vertical Tiki Taka style in particular I would say that you've removed the most important in possession team instructions for that style. From what I've understood VTT focuses on creating central overloads to allow your team to outnumber the opposition in this area and therefore more the ball forwards effectively, through combination play and wall passes. Therefore from my perspective a 'narrow or very narrow' attacking width and 'focus play through the middle' would be the essential options in creating this central overload especially with formations that have more players stationed out wide, which is the TIs you have removed. For me, your tactics are more inclined to wing play, which may be why your experiencing so many crosses. You have 2 wingbacks on either side who have PIs to run with the ball and cross often, aswell as a halfback which reduces the amount of players in central midfield as he drops deeper and pushes your centre backs wider which would increase the connection to your fullbacks and encourage the ball that way. Even though you do have WBiB to reduce crosses to be fair. This is just the way I see it and without actually watching your team in the ME its hard to know if I'm right but that's how I see it. You can make your team more vertical in other ways like increasing the mentality as suggested above, so there's many ways to achieve the same thing

That's a pretty cool idea. I'm starting to think that the attacking width instruction might be the most important in defining this tactical style because of the need to balance the combination play through the centre as well as giving your team enough space to play in. The players at your disposals technical ability would definitely alter what you could get away with. I've seen a few people recommend doing this. I think I will start without it and then see what effect it as on my fullbacks.

Hi guys, after some testing that last couple days I have a few more things I'd like people's opinions on. The three recommended formations for Vertical tiki-taka are 4-1-2-3 DM, 4-1-2-1-2 Narrow and 5-2-1-2 WB. From some of the previous comments on this thread I now understand the importance of the 'Very Narrow' and 'Focus Play Through Middle' to promote the central overloads that help make the team play more vertically in this area. The three suggested formations all vary in narrowness, so my question is are these specific TIs more important in the widest formation (4-1-2-3 DM)? My thinking is that as this system plays with wingers these TIs would be more effective in creating the central overloads, as the wide players would be encouraged to play more in central areas. However, with formations without wingers (4-1-2-1-2 Narrow and 5-2-1-2 WB) as they already have many players in central areas these TIs would be less effective and could even cause the team to be overly centrally focused and therefore easier to defend against. Could this line of thinking also apply to other TIs. For example 'Look for the Underlap' being more effective in formations with 2 wide men on each side compared to only one. Basically what I' m asking is do some of the preset team instructions apply to some of the recommended formations better than others.

Ok thanks guys I understand better. I'm gonna try to put what you've said in my own words just to make sure. "Play through the middle","Underlap", and I'm assuming "Very Narrow" in possession instructions mean that more players are stationed in the middle third of the pitch which helps to give the team a numerical advantage in this area. By having an overload centrally the team is able to better move the ball vertically through this area a they have more options, especially in more advanced positions as wide players are encouraged to come inside. Something I've understood more recently is that the whole tactics creator is interlinked, so player roles and duties/ player instructions need to fit your play-style aswell. I guess this is what your saying. A Regista, for instance, is an effective role for this play-style because it plays forward because of its coded player instruction which helps to move the ball forwards from deeper areas that they operate in. I think I prefer a defensive midfielder that holds their position so that the team can recycle possession instead of what a Regista does with the roaming. But now I understand better why a Regista is effective with this play-style. I might try giving a DLP the 'take more risks' PI to give them the more vertical focus that a Regista naturally has.

Hi all, I'm trying to understand the preset tactical instructions better. My thinking is that by understanding why SI chose specific mentalities and instructions to create the various playing styles, I can make better decisions when trying to create my own play-style. I started with The Vertical Tiki-Taka preset as it fits closest to my preferred play-style. However, it is all the one that on the surface confuses me the most, mainly because it differs from my interpretation of this kind of style. I always thought that a team being vertically focused would mean a high mentality. This is because higher mentalities increase passing directness and passing tempo which would make the team get the ball forward with more urgency, However, the Vertical Tiki-Taka preset selects a Balanced Mentality as well as both short passing and lower tempo TIs which in my mind isn't very vertical. Basically, my question is what gives this style the "emphasis on moving the ball vertically rather than side to side" that the tactics creator describes it as doing. If i could understand this better than that would help me give my own tactics that vertical combination play that make Vertical Tiki-Taka so in enticing. Thanks in Advance.

Cheers @Experienced Defender that clears a lot of things up. I've found that the Prevent Short GK Distribution TI has a really weird organisation when not playing with a top heavy formation which is unfortunate that your not able to organise your players formations when attempting to stop a teams short goalkicks.

Don't want to throw the thread off topic either, but I do have a quick question. How does the Prevent Short GK distribution TI relate to setting your teams LOE? Is having a lower LOE but still using Preventing Short GK distribution a viable strategy? And if so when would this best be employed? I also see alot of people in these forums recommend not using the Prevent Short GK distribution TI in favour of telling forward players to press more urgently and always wondered why they thought that was best

I'll give it a go. What I'm fiddling with at the moment is looking at how I can change the player roles (whilst remaining in the framework of Giampaolo's ideas) as a way to make the team more compact. In previous games I probably would have went for a 'fluid' or 'very fluid' team shape to balance the mentalities across the team, but other topics that I've recently read say that this can be achieved in FM19 through TI (overlap/underlap, focus play) and player roles. Changing the fullbacks to a support duty helps with this so thanks for the advice. If anyone else has any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated

I might end up trying a more defensive player role on a higher team mentality to increase the players individual mentality. May also help with making the team play vertically