camoulton21

@Experienced Defender has given some really good points on making a more effective tactic, but my interpretation of what might be going wrong is a little different. If you're trying to play a Vertical Tiki Taka style in particular I would say that you've removed the most important in possession team instructions for that style. From what I've understood VTT focuses on creating central overloads to allow your team to outnumber the opposition in this area and therefore more the ball forwards effectively, through combination play and wall passes. Therefore from my perspective a 'narrow or very narrow' attacking width and 'focus play through the middle' would be the essential options in creating this central overload especially with formations that have more players stationed out wide, which is the TIs you have removed. For me, your tactics are more inclined to wing play, which may be why your experiencing so many crosses. You have 2 wingbacks on either side who have PIs to run with the ball and cross often, aswell as a halfback which reduces the amount of players in central midfield as he drops deeper and pushes your centre backs wider which would increase the connection to your fullbacks and encourage the ball that way. Even though you do have WBiB to reduce crosses to be fair. This is just the way I see it and without actually watching your team in the ME its hard to know if I'm right but that's how I see it. You can make your team more vertical in other ways like increasing the mentality as suggested above, so there's many ways to achieve the same thing

That's a pretty cool idea. I'm starting to think that the attacking width instruction might be the most important in defining this tactical style because of the need to balance the combination play through the centre as well as giving your team enough space to play in. The players at your disposals technical ability would definitely alter what you could get away with. I've seen a few people recommend doing this. I think I will start without it and then see what effect it as on my fullbacks.

Hi guys, after some testing that last couple days I have a few more things I'd like people's opinions on. The three recommended formations for Vertical tiki-taka are 4-1-2-3 DM, 4-1-2-1-2 Narrow and 5-2-1-2 WB. From some of the previous comments on this thread I now understand the importance of the 'Very Narrow' and 'Focus Play Through Middle' to promote the central overloads that help make the team play more vertically in this area. The three suggested formations all vary in narrowness, so my question is are these specific TIs more important in the widest formation (4-1-2-3 DM)? My thinking is that as this system plays with wingers these TIs would be more effective in creating the central overloads, as the wide players would be encouraged to play more in central areas. However, with formations without wingers (4-1-2-1-2 Narrow and 5-2-1-2 WB) as they already have many players in central areas these TIs would be less effective and could even cause the team to be overly centrally focused and therefore easier to defend against. Could this line of thinking also apply to other TIs. For example 'Look for the Underlap' being more effective in formations with 2 wide men on each side compared to only one. Basically what I' m asking is do some of the preset team instructions apply to some of the recommended formations better than others.

Ok thanks guys I understand better. I'm gonna try to put what you've said in my own words just to make sure. "Play through the middle","Underlap", and I'm assuming "Very Narrow" in possession instructions mean that more players are stationed in the middle third of the pitch which helps to give the team a numerical advantage in this area. By having an overload centrally the team is able to better move the ball vertically through this area a they have more options, especially in more advanced positions as wide players are encouraged to come inside. Something I've understood more recently is that the whole tactics creator is interlinked, so player roles and duties/ player instructions need to fit your play-style aswell. I guess this is what your saying. A Regista, for instance, is an effective role for this play-style because it plays forward because of its coded player instruction which helps to move the ball forwards from deeper areas that they operate in. I think I prefer a defensive midfielder that holds their position so that the team can recycle possession instead of what a Regista does with the roaming. But now I understand better why a Regista is effective with this play-style. I might try giving a DLP the 'take more risks' PI to give them the more vertical focus that a Regista naturally has.

Hi all, I'm trying to understand the preset tactical instructions better. My thinking is that by understanding why SI chose specific mentalities and instructions to create the various playing styles, I can make better decisions when trying to create my own play-style. I started with The Vertical Tiki-Taka preset as it fits closest to my preferred play-style. However, it is all the one that on the surface confuses me the most, mainly because it differs from my interpretation of this kind of style. I always thought that a team being vertically focused would mean a high mentality. This is because higher mentalities increase passing directness and passing tempo which would make the team get the ball forward with more urgency, However, the Vertical Tiki-Taka preset selects a Balanced Mentality as well as both short passing and lower tempo TIs which in my mind isn't very vertical. Basically, my question is what gives this style the "emphasis on moving the ball vertically rather than side to side" that the tactics creator describes it as doing. If i could understand this better than that would help me give my own tactics that vertical combination play that make Vertical Tiki-Taka so in enticing. Thanks in Advance.

Cheers @Experienced Defender that clears a lot of things up. I've found that the Prevent Short GK Distribution TI has a really weird organisation when not playing with a top heavy formation which is unfortunate that your not able to organise your players formations when attempting to stop a teams short goalkicks.

Don't want to throw the thread off topic either, but I do have a quick question. How does the Prevent Short GK distribution TI relate to setting your teams LOE? Is having a lower LOE but still using Preventing Short GK distribution a viable strategy? And if so when would this best be employed? I also see alot of people in these forums recommend not using the Prevent Short GK distribution TI in favour of telling forward players to press more urgently and always wondered why they thought that was best

I'll give it a go. What I'm fiddling with at the moment is looking at how I can change the player roles (whilst remaining in the framework of Giampaolo's ideas) as a way to make the team more compact. In previous games I probably would have went for a 'fluid' or 'very fluid' team shape to balance the mentalities across the team, but other topics that I've recently read say that this can be achieved in FM19 through TI (overlap/underlap, focus play) and player roles. Changing the fullbacks to a support duty helps with this so thanks for the advice. If anyone else has any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated

I might end up trying a more defensive player role on a higher team mentality to increase the players individual mentality. May also help with making the team play vertically

The tactic is meant to be a recreation of the tactics Marco Giampaolo has used as manager of Empoli and Sampdoria which means I'm working from quite a rigid base in terms of tactical ideas. As I can't expect you to read up on him if you don't know about some of his tactical elements I will try to explain here, although I really do recommend Pompey_Dan's forum linked in my original post. The defend duty fullbacks are meant to in theory offer the team an opportunity to recycle possession which would hopefully draw out the opposition to allow the team to play through the centre. The fullbacks are also meant to not get ahead of the ball when building up play, only really getting forward when a switch of play if available or when the ball is safely into midfield. Maybe a different role would be more effective at achieving this. The one dimensional nature of the tactic isn't something I've really thought about and I'll look to address. The idea behind the mezzala's is that there lateral movement (move into channel, stay wider PIs) would allow the team to again open space to play through the centre. Preferably getting the AMC involved. As well, the hope is that these two roles would work together, as the opposition would look to press the deeper fullbacks opening up space for the mezzalas to move into in front. Which is why the tactic is so symmetrical. The overall idea is that the tactic utilising short passing combinations to move the ball vertically through midfield, hence short passing, PoD and distribute to CBs TIs.

That's the idea. The Speilverlarung is a website I highly recommend and goes into a lot of depth about the advantages of compactness in both attack and defence. The opportunity to counterpress is definitely something I'll look to include eventually. But for whatever reason Giampaolo isn't as fond, so I thought I'd focus on replicating the tactical elements that he does include first. Thanks man. First time posting so I'm glad you appreciate the premise. I will experiment with it the next time I play. It should definitely help with the horizontal compactness of the tactic in possession. I have tried two DLFs previously, one on attack and the other on support but found trouble keeping the penetration in the tactic, especially when reaching the edge of the box (lots of long shooting ugh). Thanks for the reply, I'll be sure to take a look at Rashidi's work. I think the biggest issue I've found with the 4-3-1-2 is players ignoring opportunities to progress the ball through the centre. My original idea was to use the dribble less TI and rely on the triangles in midfield to play vertically, but I'm struggling tbh.

There is a lot of FM resources that discuss the importance of creating a compact team out of possession that is hard to play through. With the out of possession team instructions (LOE, D-LINE AND D-WIDTH) creating this in the match engine alongside mentality, formation and player roles makes logical sense. My question is what the necessary team instructions would be to create a compact team when in possession. Marco Giampaolo’s recent appointment as Milan manager has inspired me to once again attempt to replicate his style at Empoli and Sampdoria prior. Pompey_Dan wrote a really good post on this topic in FM18 and his tactic is the template I have started from in FM19. 4-3-1-2 Inspired by Marco Giampaolo The main resource I have drawn from is a Speilverlagerung analysis on Giampaolo’s Empoli which describes his team’s compactness in possession as: “Very rarely, if ever occupying both flanks simultaneously, Giampaolo’s side prefer to have a much greater focus on spaces around the ball. The diamond in midfield remains compact at nearly all times and ensures short distances between the players as they develop strong connections through smaller areas on the pitch. With a formation that is more inclined to a narrow midfield, they favour playing through small spaces with a high density of players rather than covering more space and opening gaps through a broader attack. It’s common to see them neglect the ball-far half of the pitch as the players all take up positions closer to the ball where they can have a more direct impact on the progression of the ball.” How would I go about this? What adaptations to the current tactic do I need to make to achieve this? From watching the games in full I’ve observed that the strikers especially become the most isolated.