Breezybaby1
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Posts posted by Breezybaby1
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21 hours ago, frukox said:
I think you can afford less compact defences with mentally and physically better players but generally keeping them close is the safest way.
Have you ever tried extreme compression such as much higher line much lower loe or standard line and much lower loe?
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So I’ve been doing a little experiment with the defence and I’ve found out that with a standard d line and standard loe with a balanced mentality and standard pressing we’d get torn apart (this is with my 433 formation) how ever if I did something like lower loe and lower d line we was so much better defensively or for how I like to play higher d line standard loe or much higher d line and high loe. Now I believe it’s because standard pressing I was just to passive so I upped it but with bringing the places closer together it’s like I suffocated them, Just wondered if the experience fm players have done such a tweak that made you so much better wether it was on the defensive end or offensive end?
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4 hours ago, Rashidi said:
Bottom heavy systems have more players physically in your half during defensive phases, which helps congest space and make it harder for teams to score. However it will ultimately depend on whether your players can defend crosses as well.
Bottom heavy systems can also be more attacking but they may need players such as wingbacks to be more attacking and willing to take risks. So there is a risk reward issue here. While you can defend with numbers you need to think of ways in getting players up the pitch. So considered decisions need to be made for transitions.
Example a 532 could be set up with a DLP in the lower third, two wingbacks and a TM/Poacher combo. Its really simple but here the wingbacks help carry the ball and the attacking pair make for a good target. However build up play depends on how well you can pass the ball.
Top heavy systems have more players in attacking positions, so then your decision lies in how you control the space. You could play with wingbacks so that they push up closer to the midfield in transition allowing you to create a team that attacks with numbers or you could opt to make a more structured system with fullbacks playing narrow passing it to the central mids to build play up more conservatively. With top heavy systems the large numbers in front make it possible to apply pressure, but the challenge then becomes on how you control and defend midfield so that you can deny the other team easy chances.
The game is always a risk reward consideration when you choose a specific formation for play. Its how that formation uses the space.
So a 4231 with wingers in the am strata and midfield strata would suit more of a high press while a 4411 would suit maybe a mid-low block press as players are deeper?
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1 hour ago, kingjericho said:
Deciding between a bottom/top heavy formation, for me, has mainly to do with where and how you want to press your opponent when you don't have the ball. The formation you see in the tactics screen represents the shape of the team when defending.
If you want to press high up the pitch you want a formation that has players in attacking zones - e.g. 4231, 424. This goes along with: high defensive line, high line of engagement, counter-press, prevent short gk distribution, and other TI that will make the team apply pressure in advanced areas.
If you want to press only after the opponent passes the halfway line, then there's no point in having many players in attacking strata - e.g. 4141, 532 - This goes along with: low defensive line, low line of engagement, regroup, and other TI that will make the team stand-off for a while until starting to press the opponent.
Ok so let’s say for example I’m a midtable team and my regular formation is 4231 however I’m coming up against a team that is severely better than me and I switch to a 4411 the ml/r will do more and better defensive work for me at the cost of attacking positioning, now I know of course roles and duties affecting this along with mentality and TI’s. my thinking is that leaving players high up in the am strata’s for example a aml/r you’re relying a lot on your fullbacks to be adept at defending on there own?
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Can anyone tell me to benefits of too heavy and bottom heavy so for example what’s the benefit of a 4231 with aml/r and 4411 with ml/r?
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5 minutes ago, frukox said:
Then, you change him to WBD. There is no shame in this if you have a capable mezzala. However, you need to change LCM to a BBM or RPM to support him better.
So I’m guessing in transition the wider cb’s will cover the flanks until wb get back and the dm will drop in with the middle cb?
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My concern with the mezz(a) is that in this system especially with wingbacks I worry for that side of the flank, when I come up against a team that for examples plays a 4231 or 433 I get battered down there and the reason for the formation was honestly because I’ve never even tried a 3atb formation so I wanted to step out my comfort zone
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Hi guys this is my first attempt at a 3 at the back formation and I was wondering if any of you had any suggestions on how to improve this, although it done me well in the league the champions league was disastrous and to be honest luckily won europa. My idea of this is just short passing plays with either intricate through balls to either striker which I have seen and of course crossing with the wingbacks. My pi’s is closing down more for the 2 strikers and midfield trio, now is there anyway to make this solid because I get destroyed by the bigger teams sometimes even team equal where I know I’m only winning due to individual quality I want to make this tactic solid at the back and lethal on the ball, also the WB on defend is actually on support was just experimenting for a game.
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As for the dmc situation I’ve trialed and tested it’s kinda a catch 22 if I use that formation I’ll struggle for goals and just end up dealing with endless wave of attacks. The other problem that is I only have one cm that has positioning over 15 (james garner) the rest I have 11 at best. It’s quite frustrating as at home this works perfectly even against the big teams which can be 50/50 depending on which of the top 6 it is but away from home is just dreadful. It’s not as if I’m overly aggressive with my roles or overly aggressive with my pressing (4 players close down more in pi the front 4) is it just that I need to strengthen. Also concede the typical set piece goals, occasional long shots and of course crosses
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On 29/07/2020 at 21:54, Enzo_Francescoli said:
Totally off-topic, but what's the thinking behind using an AF in a patient, possession-oriented tactic, and as the lone striker, no less?. I have never, ever, for one minute, understood that.
Honestly no reason but it works, I just wanted a runner and that was the one that gave me that turned my st to a 35+ goal striker
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9 minutes ago, Mr_Demus said:
You could try moving the two MC's to the DMC position.
Possibly however I only have one player capable of playing dmc properly the rest are unfamiliar with the position or does that not matter?
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1 minute ago, GianniM said:
In big games I'd just not play with such an attacking formation, but build in more security by removing the AMC and introducing a DM. Then a standard LOE and no prevent short GK dist.
Perhaps play a bit more direct as well if you do that.
Will have to give that a try, is there no way to make a 4-2-3-1 more solid? Open to changing formation for big games but is there no way?
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Just now, Djuicer said:
Yes but, things like attributes, your system and player traits also factors in. Nothing can really ever be looked at in isolation, its a sum of a lot of parts that makes up how a player act. Although broadly it is correct. Higher mentalites tend to be more rushed and often trying more dangerous plays. Be it shooting or passing.
Yeah I think fm need to do a better job of explaining stuff like that to fm newcomers cause that’s something you can’t find unless u accidentally stumble on it on one of these forms
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2 minutes ago, Djuicer said:
They show the relative risk a player is supposed to be taking, on a scale with 7 diffrent steps. There very defensive is most risk aversive and very attacking takes the most risk taking.
Yeah something I’ve just learnt now in my good few years of fm lol so for example a player with a very attacking mentality is just focused on scoring which means if could lead to rush decisions or them shooting instead of passing?
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2 hours ago, Cadoni said:
Thank you but I’s there anymore that explains them a bit better
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Is there a thread directly linked to individual mentality’s?
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4 hours ago, Bluebird123 said:
See how deep all their players are? They have 8 players camped in their half so if they are playing on a cautious/defensive mentality they will play it among themselves until they hoof it back to you because they have no options. The way FM calculates possession is different to irl so you are going to have this issue whenever playing against these types of teams. As long as you are completing more passes than them and scoring goals don't focus on the possession stat.
Thank you this was driving my head in I’ll look out for more passing stats however I think they’ll have more if not equal to me if they’re passing among themselves
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23 hours ago, Breezybaby1 said:
Does ‘be more expressive’ help out with that because as I’m a big team opponent will have a field day watching me try and work it into the box while then have all 10 men back
Post above
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This is what confuses me I’m camped in their area yet they have 61% possession my tactics haven’t changed much other than removing prevent short gk (because they was just passing it out to the fullbacks) and adding shorter passing and lower tempo, this tactic is good for my team and I’m half happy because it’s brings us results and good football but the possession is just SOOOOO inconsistent it drives me mad oh and positive mentality as well because on balanced I don’t like my cb being on defensive mentality
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5 minutes ago, Djuicer said:
No not really, it's a tool I use to increase my possession numbers. It also decreases crossing and long shots. However its not always benificial.
The key point I was trying to make was options for roles which you can use in your setup. I for example have a creative role up top. A creator down the right. A creator in midfield. An inside forward on the left with an overlapping wing back.
An example of two common goals we score are those. First the IF and then the F9.
Does ‘be more expressive’ help out with that because as I’m a big team opponent will have a field day watching me try and work it into the box while then have all 10 men back
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3 minutes ago, Djuicer said:
This thread has lots and lots of ideas for how to create that kind of style.
On top of my head you are playing with a top heavy formation, on a positive mentality and maxed out LOE and DLINE.
Lacking all kinds of creativity. The inside forward role is more of a scorer than a creator. Try changeing one of them to the inverted winger instead. The midfield has three very generic roles. Which can work but then you really need creativity from other places of the pitch. Try change one of the two on support to an AP or DLP instead. In the defence the WBs on support should be fine, but in the centre you might need a ball playing defender to help Onana playing out of the back.
I use this as my current setup and It works decent.
Do you not find work ball into box difficult? Especially when ur essentially trying to suffocate ur opponent?
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52 minutes ago, BigV said:
Close down is TI check your out of possession tab top right (not sure if that was a typo), cool anything else leme know
No I meant pi as in player instruction idea is I don’t want to be pulling my all my players out just my front 5, tried a couple more game but it’s just the same can’t dominate possession even with the front 5 pressing I have both my cm’s on hold position because of the wingbacks but other than that this possession thing I’m completely lost
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21 minutes ago, BigV said:
I dont want to confuse you cause of the technicals. The match engine (what we see when they play) dictates the game, it is known to have imbalances, such as one you've stated, cautious/defensive create possession imbalances SOMETIMES- particularly those smaller clubs.
You can counter this, you just gotta perservere and check the game tactically and analytical. Pushing the line up will literally create pockets of space maybe big spaces where they can completely take you out with possession (poessession is how long they hold the ball for not the amount of passes they make successfully). Have you told your players to close down more? according to your screenshot you dont have it so they're being pushed up but only closing down sometimes.
Again if that doesnt work, check top heavy formations where they press from the front (4231 usually is good with that). Or try lowering the LOE with closing down sometimes in turn making the AI push for a more positive/attacking approach making it more risky for them and for you to win the ball back and counter.
Yes I have my front 5 on close down more on pi and fair enough gonna test this out and let you know the results
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2 hours ago, BigV said:
Your press depends on your formation- your 4231 will press according to their positional roots. So your ST will press GK/CB's, RW-LB, LW-LB and CAM-centrally, changing formation to those I suggested maybe beneficial so a 424 would make your whole attack press that whole backline forcing them to go long (=less possession quite often) helping you in the proccess but you will need to weigh the risk to that.
If you're giving them space then they WILL attack it as its exploitable, the AI sees it as a way to help them score, you ever notice in games that the AI switches mentality through the game? this is what will happen so they'll take more risks and with your quality you should be able to best it 7/8 out of 10 times giving you much more possession.
BARE IN MIND possession doesn't mean much at all really when you're winning games, dont let the stats fool you.
Ok so this possession thing is confusing me now these past 2 games against top opposition in the league (Bayern Munich, Bayer Leverkusen) I went positive, lower tempo with the normal d line and loe and I dominated possession and they were playing cautious/defensive yet when I play against some bottom opposition they maintain the ball so well and like I said when I push the line up and loe nothing much changes so what am I not noticing here?
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How important is vertical compactness in defence
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Yes that’s what I’m finding out before I use to just play standard d line standard loe or high d line higher loe etc but sometimes even against teams I was better than they just had to much space and was creating too many chances sometimes even holding the ball to much so with this compression I think I’ve figured out it’s good because you essentially suffocate the opposition into whatever zone you put them into