Irn Rvd
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Posts posted by Irn Rvd
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On 02/02/2020 at 09:33, crusadertsar said:
This is my Crujff at the moment. So yes you will need a pretty special player. Very well rounded jack of all trades but also a smart playmaker type. A natural leader. And you can download it straight into your game. The latest version is actually here and is a little different from the one I described in the original article.
Tactic Download Link: https://ufile.io/rqjns0g4
This tactic plays some amazing football. Really enjoying it. Definitely needs time for your team to get used to it. My favourite kind of player is an all rounder, so i think my team was set up well already for this tactic. One of the highlights its this tactic can slowly build up play and also be very lethal on the counter. The left back on my team is phenomenal now with IWB(at). He plays pretty much like Gareth Bale vs inter for spurs back in the day.
@crusadertsar I have a couple of questions. Would appreciate greatly if you could help out.
- I am not a top team but get 6th every season (three times in a row), so my players are not the best in the league. How should I adapt if its 0-0 at 80 minutes and playing newcastle with all 11 players camped in their own box? I have a load of chances and just cant get the breakthrough but thats football. Would like advice on how to go more attacking without removing the integrity of the tactic.
- I can't afford to buy a right back at the minute and main one is injured. My sub right back is not total football worthy. Any ideas on what I should change the rb slot to just until I can get a replacement? He makes the flow of the tactic terrible with his 9 vision and 11 passing and first touch. He sometimes shoots from the halfway line for no reason lol.
Thanks for your help.
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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:
I personally would never ever use such a tactic, regardless of the style of football. Playing an attacking fullback and a mezzala on the same side in a top-heavy system with no DM is a tactical no-no in my book. I guess you wrongly interpreted the roles and/or duties, because if they played in such kind of setup against me, I would destroy them on the counter
On the other hand, of course you can play progressive possession football using a 4231, but with a lot more sensible setup.
haha I bet. I must have. The players mentality on the roles is definitely incorrect.
Whats the best way to fit wingers into this system?
Would the left side of this formation work?
DLFsu
Wsu SS Wat
DLPsu BBM
FBat CDde CDde FBsu
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These tactic looks interesting. I will tests these tonight.
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I have never really used "pass into space" this fm as I feel that they always pass into space when the opportunity arises anyway. Maybe im wrong but thats something ive noticed.
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10 hours ago, StabbyMcGinge said:
Just a few tips I have been trying to create a tiki taka style and if you have pass into space ticked it completely breaks the tactic. Also using more expression means players more prone to making runs with the ball doing it more often which again isnt great for a possession style.
Thanks Stabby! So no "pass into space" and "more expressive". Will test this out.
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4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Wait a minute... so this is not your tactic, but the tactic you presume your opponent (Ajax) used against you?
my description of this must have not been great. I played Ajax and they used this formation. They played amazing football, With average players.
could this tactic with the roles and TI be used to play 4231 with a progressive possession style? I would really appreciate your feedback experienced defender if you have the chance.
thanks for responding.0 -
Ive actually found the type of style in a 4231 on this post now, if anyone is interested.
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I usually play 41221 in my saves but i was recently blown away by a young Ajax team using 4231 in the champions league. They played really entertaining football. The team defended and pressed well, created a range of different opportunities via different methods. I did win over the two legs, but only by scoring from set pieces but makes sense as they had a very short players, in an attacking lineup, with a poor young keeper in goal.
I would like to try create a progressive possession 4231 tactic or at least a base to use.
Here is the tactic this Ajax team used below: (not sure about the mentalities of each role)
Scout report said vertical tiki taka.
PF(a)
W(a) AM(s) W(s)
DLP(D) MEZ(s)
WB(s) CD(d) CD(d) FB(a)
SK(s)
Team instructions in theory:
Mentality: Balanced
In possession: Short passing, Play out of defense, More expressive, work ball into box.
In Transition: Counter press? I was thinking nothing ticked here, possibly adding counter and/or counter-press depending on situation.
Out of possession: Higher defensive Line, offside trap.
Player instructions: Pressing more - Wingers, AM, PF(a) already in role. Split block.Things I am not sure about:
- Wingers and FB/WB working together. These roles might get into the way of each other.
- Does a Mezzela work with a winger and a FB? My head is telling me no. Im sure experienced defender said that Mezz or winger should be on different mentalities i.e. one on attack, one on support.
- Does AM(s) work well? from past experience, he doesn't seem todo a whole lot. Should this be AP?
- Im thinking im going to get spanked on the break, so is DLP + mez combination too weak defensively?
Please advise. Any feedback is appreciated.
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22 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:
No problem at all
. I've had several pet ask me already. Not surprising. It's a really nice looking skin especially to see the attributes. It's called YACS skin. All credit should go to the modders. Can be found on fmscout and also on steam workshop.
Thanks. Will download this tonight.
Here is the link if anyone is interested https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1916271522&searchtext=1 -
1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:
The two DM formations are hard to break down too. The Ancelotti-style narrow diamond is my next fave formation after 4-1-4-1 and 4-3-3.
Also forgot to mention but the right underlap shouldn't be there. I think it stayed in the download but I removed it in the later version of the tactic. Not sure if it makes a difference.
Sorry to go off topic, but what skin are you using?
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I seem to be getting caught offside all the time now. Even when slowly building an attack down the wing. Same happening with opponents so its not a massive issue.
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13 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
To be clear, there is nothing wrong with removing the counter-press when you want to be more solid defensively (and avoid the risks of aggressive pressing). I just wanted to emphasize that it has nothing to do with keeping possession.
Its ok, I know what you mean. thanks for clarifying though
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1 hour ago, Diogo28 said:
My tactic is pretty much the same as yours.
Defensively solid.
I feel i'm getting good results against top teams but struggle a lot against weaker sides, winning by 1 goal (many from set pieces and penalties) and not creating a lot.
My strikers are kinda useless too. Sometimes i put the AML as IF-A and the Striker as DLP-S or F9 but i'm still struggling a lot to score.
Any hints?
I dont have any hints yet but If I find a solution I will let you know.
Im gonna try a few tweaks this week and see what happens.
Wish me luck lol0 -
13 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
Why would you remove the Counter-press if you want to keep possession ??? When you want to keep possession, you can remove the Counter TI (not counter-press). But you don't use the Counter anyway.
Ok. It was to try and be more conservative but that makes sense. Thanks for your help.
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I am having a similar issue with my tactic. really inconsistent in front of goal. This suggests to me that we are not creating the right kind of chances. Maybe we are making it too realistic lol.
I had your AP(s) on the mcr position as a MEZZ(a) but its not working out too well for me either. Im going to try your advice and try moving him higher up the pitch to AMC slot but im skeptical about having three midfield playmakers, with the DLP, and HB already.Let me know if you make any breakthroughs.
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On 17/01/2020 at 11:08, Experienced Defender said:
In essence - yes. Of course, asking for advice is always good, because it helps you avoid making (too) big and unnecessary mistakes. But at the same time, only you know your team and watch your matches. So ultimately, it comes down to "do it yourself"
I call this style "progressive possession football", and that's what I prefer to play when I manage a top team. The key difference between my style and yours is that I do not use more (let alone extremely) urgent pressing. Instead, I go with a split block, which is safer defensively.
Hi!!
Sorry, I commented on too many posts and was unable to reply to this.Thanks for your feedback. Progressive possession football it is!!!!
I have ended up with this tactic from your comments. It works pretty well, football being played is good to watch but still has room for improvement. I notice it can be inconsistent but I think thats more todo with my squad. Im in my third season in the prem and as you know, everyone has crazy good squads by then.
PF(a) or DLF(a) - Depending on striker
IF(s) IW(s)
DLP(s) MEZ (a)HB(d)
WB(a) CD (d) CD (d) FB (s)
SK(s)
Short passing, Play out of defence, more expressive, work ball into box
Counter press, goal keeper takes short kicks (keeper kicking is 18)
High line of defence, High line of engagementPis - Split block on front four
OI - none
Main issue I am having is the the MEZ(a) having average ratings almost every game. Ive been experimenting with different roles and Pis, but was unable to make it better. The wingers are next in line for inconsistency, but i think thats pretty realistic. My secondary to main issue is how to change the team instructions when things are not going great. Im not really sure how to impact the game without messing up the tactic. Say I need a goal with 20 mins left, or i need to hold the lead, Im not really sure how to instruct this.
To try see a game out, ive tried lowering the tempo and also the line of engagement, removing counter press to try keep more possession. This sometimes works. Nothing ive changed to try and get a goal ever works though.
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.0 -
7 hours ago, djjoshiejosh said:
I've found that having low crosses, and look for underlap as well as roles that attack the channels from midfield like CM-A or Mezz-A really help emphasise cutbacks from the wide wingers
Im going to try this tonight. Thanks!
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5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
The setup of roles and duties and in-possession instructions look good (as far as I am concerned). The rest might need some tweaking though. But even if you create a "perfect" tactic, you still need to make sure it suits your players. Because what works great for one (type of) team will not necessarily work for another. Therefore you need to adapt it to your own team.
Btw, why do you relate this tactic to a "tiki-taka" (vertical or whatever)?
Thanks for your response.
Make sense. Trial and error is the only way to succeed I suppose. I think my team just might not be suited to a shorter passing game but I was getting bored of the more direct passing tactics so hence why I tried to make this. Also the more direct 433s are way less adaptable and im finding it tough to break down park the bus teams.
Im not sure if vertical tikitaka is accurate, but that tactic description is how I would like to play.
- High pressing
- possession based
- more purpose and penetration than just a normal tikitaka
Im not sure if its more a hybrid of gegenpressing and tikitaka is what I am looking for. If you have a more accurate title, that would be awesome.0 -
On 15/01/2020 at 16:38, PequenoGenio said:
Hello managers
I am taking my first steps in terms of creating a tactic or rather creating a game identity: ADN / team / game philosophy. What I am looking for is to create a foundation so that I can work with whatever team I am training.
What I'm looking for is a hybrid between:
- gegenpress
- vertical tiki-taka
- tiki-taka
- control possession.
The team shape that i have in mind and want to implement is this and the arrows represent want i want that each player to do:
Notes:
CD - they must both be comfortable with the ball
RB - more complete and more attacking that the LB
DM - the Makelele/Pirlo mix
CMR - the heart of the team. help the defense, help the attack, run for miles....
CML - more attacking that the right one.
AMR - some kind of second striker.
AML - mix between a IF and a Winger
STC - the main man. Goalscorer, helps in building of the play.
Right now i have this in mind:
Don't have OI's and PI's are only this:
LB - cross more often
AMR - mark tighter (to help the defense because he is on attack)
STC - close down more, tackle harder and mark tighter
Team fluidity is important?
But again, this is to serve as a base and to be something universal and then will be made minor adjustments according to team and players.
Did you get this tactic to work? Im looking for this kind of tactic too.
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On 15/01/2020 at 07:17, Mitja said:
Attacking, Very Fluid
False9/DLF-S
Inside Forward-A
Inside Forward-S (hold position, stay wider)
MEZ-A
AP-S
Wing Back-S DLP-S Inverted WB-s
CB-D CB-D
SK-S
what TI's would you use for this tactic?
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On 15/01/2020 at 13:09, Mitja said:
My turn
Attacking, Flexible
PF-A
IF-A
IF-S
CAR-S DLP-S
BWM-S
FB-A FB-A
BPD-D CD-D
SK-S
What TIs would you use for this tactic?
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Great post! This is sort of what im looking for too. Are you getting enough goals on the 1a tactic?
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2 hours ago, Kripster said:
I just take off iw(su), maybe an if(su) be better for a more verticak game..
Will rest this later tonight. Thanks for your help.
anything else you can see? Or should I just try get better players with more creative mental and passing stats?0 -
Hey Guys! I have been researching on here and fm base looking for a Vertical TikiTaka (433) that I can use as my main tactic. I have another tactic I can use that worked great for a while but as my team is getting bigger and stronger, I am struggling to break down stubborn defences as the underdogs are parking the bus. Im looking for help to create a Vertical TikiTaka tactic that can:
- Have a decent amount of possession
- High pressure on opponents
- Play good football but also create CCC
I know, I know, this is very cliche and everybody wants a tactic like this but hey.
This tactic is based off Experience Defenders comments. Also Bustthenets videos.
No OIs, No PIs so far.
So far, I am able keep the defence relatively solid, have really good possession (maybe too much) but still cant create many CCC. When I do get CCC its mostly the striker 1v1 (who scores 1 out of 10 of them) or the AML/AMR coming into the edge of the box and shooting side netting.
I have had decent results with this tactic but other times its just drops off like most tactics. For example, I beat chelsea 4 - 1 at home, 6 CCC created throughout the game (no 1v1) and thought my team had finally cracked it. Played St Johnstone home and away same team a week later, no fitness issues, drew 0-0 and got beat 2-1. Created 3 CCCs in two games. Goal was a penalty. I have drew four games 0-0 completely dominating possession but just not creating the right kind of CCCs.
I am playing in the premiership with leeds 3rd season. Squad is probably good enough for top 6. Most players bought have high determination, meduim-high work rate. Passing is ok is squad but could be better. Im thinking this is probably my issue but I would like help identifying.
Please see attached image of tactic and squad. Any feedback will be appreciated. Thanks.
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. I've had several pet ask me already. Not surprising. It's a really nice looking skin especially to see the attributes. It's called YACS skin. All credit should go to the modders. Can be found on fmscout and also on steam workshop.
Achieving Total Football in FM20 - Club DNA Experiment
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
haha that makes total sense. My main right back is a leeds wonderkid who was initially a CM. He got moved there when the other right back got sent off, and has remained ever since.
I have tried the mirror version before and I think it works. I thought it was just a coincidence but now that you said it, it may not be. I have not tried the fresh attacking sub before though. This could be a good trick, espeically in the IF(a) slot.
Thanks for your help.