Robson 07

That pass map. It's heavily weighted bottom left and much thinner top right. Then overlay your roles against it. The top right half of your formation MCR, AMR, CF. They are selfish attack-duty roles, no cohesion, individuals making runs, shooting or dribbling, no interplay. I also like to balance more attacking mentalities with a couple of roles that hardcode 'take less risks', and vice versa on defensive mentalities.

Nice thread if I may so. Looking back I can definitely see some commonality now between Paisley's Liverpool setup and that of Clough (Forest) and maybe even Fergie and Wenger, Utd and Arsenal respectively. It was that reference to the right side of the (442 / 4411) formation being configured slightly differently to the left. E.g. John Robertson left (winger); Martin O'Neill right (tucked in); Giggs left (winger), Beckham right (tucked in); Overmars left (advanced), Parlour right (tucked in). Plus the opening post to this thread Barnes left (winger), Houghton right (tucked in). All of those successful sides defying the myth that all 442's were equal and that English sides always had an archetypal winger both sides and a big no.9 target man up top. Of course some teams did but as is being shown, many of the better ones were always far more nuanced and tactically aware than are given credit for. Also I would like to give @irish kopite a huge shout out. His longer reply 3 or 4 posts above mine is absolute quality.

Care. It's the age of pressing. Low tempo can increases touches and slow decision making.

Without seeing a tactic it's hard to comment but I would suggest dialling down aggressive formations and duties. A good role, just to try, is Wingback-Defend. Even on highlights only, just watch that single player on that role for a 2 or 3 games, that's easy to do, right. Notice how much they contribute to the build up. Do they time their run? How high do they get? Do they overlap? Take mental notes. Then consider the Support & Attack duty variants. Might a Wingback on Attack Duty actually be too aggressive, too committed to attacking, playing too high and getting exposed on the counter. Try that one simple tip. It might become a building block for the rest.

Marcus Rashford (IF). A striker that moves inward, from the left side in his case, getting the ball on to his stronger foot. Looks to finish moves; strong counter attacking option; not a great defensive contributor. Jack Grealish (IW). More of a playmaking midfielder, plays wide from the left but is right-footed. More likely to create a chance, and link the play, than be the cutting edge. Makes sense given that Haaland is the goal scoring focal point.

@Rashidi did a good thread, closely related, a couple of years or more back. I've linked it above. I believe he covers how SI define space / half-space / channels. Don't know whether any of what he covered has become dated across newer additions of the game and how the M.E. works now.

Nice thread, some interesting observations being discussed. Thanks.

Easily the best active thread, great save you have btw @toshimitzou1 . I've started to wander down this road now, perhaps inspired by some of the insight this has given me. The only contribution I want to make so far is about player "conditioning". I'm finding it beneficial to keep the overall tactic intensity at lower levels so that the team has the stamina, fitness and pace to run devastating counters when given the opportunity. Switching to this style enabled my Blackburn team kick on in the 2nd half of the 1st season to get promoted, at which point I've just taken the West Ham job. Basically I'm keeping things like tempo, triggers at lower levels than most and obviously counterpress (off).

The answer is for your playmaker role to be ahead of the midfield like an advanced playmaker, Treq or Enganche would be. Instead of taking an attacking action such as shooting or crossing, the players have another instruction to consider which is find the playmaker. A defensive playmaker is a pseudo alternative to play out of defence. An advanced playmaker is similar for work ball into box.

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From right to left. GK FB(s), DC, DC, FB(s) W(a), Car(s), CM(s), IW(a) SS P

The stay wider PI is worth experimenting with. I think with that the striker should be wider and then cut inwards to the channel; as opposed to moving from in to out which is possibly a type of run more suited to counterattacking style. I'm using a 4411. My striker is a poacher in that system as I absolutely want my one and only striker straight down the middle between the posts. My no.10 is normally a shadow striker who has greater movement and the ability to take defenders away and into the channels. Occasionally the no.10 becomes a Trequartista if I'm using a highly skilled more creative player but this is where I'd again mention C.A. Need to have someone that is good enough to pull of the Treq role.

A very simple rule of thumb is that roles which come with a lot of hard coded player instructions typically require better players to pull them off i.e. those with more C.A. So roles like FB Support and CM Support are nice and uncomplicated for lower level players but they may not have the movement needed to succeed as well at elite levels. Something else to keep in mind with the 442 is forwards that run into the channels. I've noticed that if they both do this then they can play apart from each other and combine less. Combination heat maps in the data hub will show this with them pulling more toward the wings. Having at least one of them keeping more central can help provide greater threat.

Both kinda correct. The Gegenpress has probably always needed the least tweaking, it was practically ready straight out of the box. This may have made it much more easier to adopt partly leading to cries of it being overpowered. The other presets can work too but need varying degrees of customisation and 1 or 2 like 'Catenaccio', an awful lot because if left alone it is disastrous. Have no idea why SI released them as such a mixed bag, being fit for purpose in some cases and not at all in others. Maybe it is so that they didn't leave too many tactical breadcrumbs all at once.

The tactic is...bland. Distributes slow, plays slow and narrow, tries to camp in the opposition half but doesn't take many risks due to mentality. It's easy to stop and ripe for being hit on the counter. Give it more oomph in possession.

I'd use Hit Early Crosses when using a more direct approach. You would want to be strong aerially for this type of game.

Hit early crosses to a big man and feed off the knoockdowns. Distribute quickly if team transitions fast e.g. an Attack mentality.

Yes. Most counter attacks stem from a turnover.

Great contributors mentioned in this thread. WWFan THOG O-zil to the Arsenal Polite & respectful mention to the late SFraser too.

I like your posts a lot @frukox, but not this one quite as much , sorry. But you have made some really fine ones that are worth other people looking up . This post looks a bit counter-attack style which it doesn't need to be if simply seeing out a game. I don't think you need a Mezzala, Inverted roles, or force the oppo outside in this strategy. Personally I would be neutral toward defensive width neither encouraging crosses (yet nor being wider and leaving the channels wider and encouraging long shots). To the OP & to see out a game, I would definitely come away from any Attacking tactic. Toward any mentality that goes as low as Counter but no lower. My key would be to keep possession (see not Attack mentality) and lower the height of the team (see not Attack mentality). I would keep some men behind the ball; midfield more packed, slow the pace and narrow the width, add time wasting and look to keep the ball. But I would not become passive, backing off on a low mentality & low block - this invites FM trouble. You need changes, common sense ones but not seismic to "control" the game, don't just back out of it.

The counter-press works on speed. This means numbers being upfield to get around the ball. Players being positioned deeper, as in a 4411, & in particular with a support role rh side doe not achieve this objective. Being late into the counter-press is no-mans land and that is bad. Commit to the counter-press or back away from it.

Who buys the Daily Mail? I think the guy is great character, and a better than average coach with ideas. But there is an aura around him when unfortunately those ideas are now stale, the game is moving on. He seems to have had a ceiling everywhere he goes. Reacting to the opposition only gets you so far.

I would hate to play for him. You'd want a coach to focus on how you as individual can make a creative impact on the game, and not be detailed with stopping your direct opponent. He's obsessed with the opposition to the point of training ground spying - see Derby County controversy. I just see a reactive and overhyped coach.

Does this not simply highlight Bielsa as a reactive coach? Someone whose primary concern is stopping the opposition alongside tenets for organisation and hard running? His Leeds side had little in the way of actual creativity and when they were eventually exhausted - which was always inevitable - the results fell away. Isn't that the pattern of his career? Sometime squads reject his methods but those who do buy-in only last a season or two before injuries and fatigue sees form dry up & capitulate and he then leaves.

Rice - pass it square - I'm afraid is overrated.