jc577

No mate, it doesn’t work like that. Think about it like this - roles/duties determine where you build up play, and have a bigger influence on this than TI’s. So applying this to your latest tactic - a trio of FB-S, CM-S, and W-S doesn’t scream ‘we’re looking to build our attacks from here’, especially considering you have a MEZ-A on the other side. However, a trio of a FB-A, RPM/BBM, and an IW-S would likely see build up on the left flank, with the RPM able to switch the ball to your attacking duo on the right.

This makes sense. So in. 3412 with a DLF-A & AF supported by an AM-A, that would be the rest attack?

What would you say are formations with good potential for a rest attack? I'm trying to build a mid-block, quick transition system, and looking at 3412, 343, and 3421.

As I am attempting to achieve the same 'Holy Grail' in my Torino save too, I have some ideas of my own which I'd love to get your thoughts on, as well as some musings on your current tactic. Musings With the goal of achieving less passes in the opposition's final third, I wonder how big (or small) an impact removing counter-press would have? There will be times where you'll lose the ball high up the pitch, win it back, and start playing again from there. Could be something to consider. Very Fluid/Fluid team shapes could actually be working against your end-goal, as support duties are more associative and risk-adverse, which could be leading to more patient, probing football. Also, to my understanding, team shape is purely a visual aspect now and doesn't not work how it did in previous FM's (which is a big loss in my opinion.) Removing Play Out of Defence could again decrease passes made in the final third, as you look to progress the ball quicker. Currently, I have this ticked off, and have instructed my GK to distribute to CB's, which seems to provide a nice medium. The change to a low block, low line of engagement is a nice idea, I have been considering this myself. My only reservation is that this might invite too much pressure, and might not be needed to achieve the 'Holy Grail'. I've been considering upping the passing directness to 'slightly more direct', which could be the the key to truly unlocking this style.

Looks great, following with interest!

Very interesting! I've been trying to crack this for years Could you link me to the material you were reading?

That’s a real shame! I’ve been lurking the forums for the past few days in anticipation of it 😂 really got me thinking about quick attacking football with lots of flare.. may give it a go myself haha. But this new project has me almost equally excited love a 442 and always will, so excited to see your take in this new style.

Would you mind sharing a screenshot of the tactic if you still have it?

Fantastic read mate. Haven’t been as active on here over the holidays but caught up today and you’ve been busy! So much to digest/think about… got me wanting to move away from my 442 to a 433 haha. Great work.

Like the look of this a lot, I can imagine it creates good movement all over the pitch. How does the AP interact with the CM-A? Also, how do you find the shift in the backline as you have the IFB on the opposite side to the Libero?

Agreed on this. I'd like to see different behaviour from an AP, staying a higher to take advantage of the deep build up, with the ability to drop in if necessary.

Amazing thread mate, love the tactical detail and musings as you look to perfect the system. I'm definitely a huge fan of the 2-2 box, and as you've shown there's loads of variations to it. I think the 5-5 split (3-2 rest defence) can work well of course, especially with top teams as it's more reliant on individual qualitative superiority (attacking players winning their 1v1's) but a 2-2 box gives you essentially a 'free' player to support wherever required. I've been thinking lately about a 2-3 rest defence of sorts, but with a player within that '3' able to support attacks when needed, again forming that 2-2. One variation in a 433 is having both CM's consistently join the front line, and then the DM is supported by a Libero & IWB (IWB has license to attack). Another option could be to have one CM stay back, have the Libero step up again to make the three, and now you can perhaps have an aggressive wingback as the extra attacker, with the IW-S coming in very narrow. Lots of options! Looking forward to more, great work so far

This is great detail, thank you. On paper the system looks so simple - not a slight by any means, rather the contrary, and shows the power/importance of player traits. The principles of this tactic reminds me of a 433 you created back in the day, using a wide Treq and a WB-D (Zabeleta I think?) to cover that side. Great stuff. Were the issues you experienced to do with the space between your defence/midfield? That's the current issue I'm trying to solve, but some good advice in here.

That's disappointing, and I feel like whilst the positional play features are great this year, player positioning is bit off in terms of creating these shapes and natural passing angles. Feels a bit awkward and leads to extra passes being played to get someone into space/free between the lines when a simple lateral shift would solve everything. The lines in possession are a bit flat; needs more depth and more lateral movement generally I feel.

Thanks a lot mate, some really good notes here! Will definitely have a read over that thread. I use an IW-S in my current 442 and have noticed that a lot of counter attacks come down that side (using a FB-A to overlap), but as Herne would say it ultimately comes down to risk vs reward. Contemplating a switch to a WM-S with PI's to encourage a bit more risk, but a WP-S is also an interesting option - less inclined to run with the ball into traffic and lose it compared to the IW. Pivot wise I like the idea of a Regista + DM-S/BWM-S combo... win the ball back, give it to the Regista and start moves off quickly. The SV I've found frustrating this year due to the positional play feature, it gets a tad too high up for my liking. What are your thoughts on the defensive line/block? Would a mid block be more effective in compressing the space? P.S. @herne79 Would love to see your 4411& the thought process behind it if you still have it (wouldn't be against an old school write up either!)

Similarly to above, if you could share your thought process in your 442 it would be much appreciated! The more the merrier

Agreed, it feels very awkward & seems like that on the ME. Players don’t take up optimal positions and it looks messy. I’ll try to find some screen shots/upload PKM’s when I’m next on.

Have you written anywhere on your 442 set up? Particularly how to control/block spaces out of possession? I struggle to get the midfield 4 defending compact and narrow which is key to a 442!

Any love for Grande Torino in here? Very tempted to start a save with them and topple Juve as the best team in Turin once again.

Looks great, I've been doing a lot of research on Girona recently, they've been fantastic to watch. How does the RPM hold as the '1'? I've been thinking about using a HB with traits like that of a DLP to replicate Aleix Garcia to be the '1', with an IFB at right back. Occasionally, Blind at LCB does get quite far forward to underlap/overlap Salvio, so thinking the HB could be nice to drop in when that movement happens.

How is the RMD playing out? I've been wanting to play with one for a while, but in recent editions of the game it's been pretty ineffectual (too wide) for my liking.

I've noticed this too. Even though now we can tell the winger to cut inside, the role is still hardcoded to get down the flank and is a bit too aggressive (dribble heavy) for my liking.

I've tried getting ML/MR players to tuck inside and sit in the half-space on FM24 but found it difficult to achieve consistently, as they didn't come in narrow enough and even when they did, looked for space back out wide. Also doing a Villa replication

Did someone say Ben White? Fantastic post again - I hadn't previously considered the 'shift' that an IWB has on the directional flow of play (left or right) and how to take advantage of this, as you have done with the MEZ + WB + Winger combo, and also how to mitigate the defensive weaknesses this might cause. Great stuff.

Quite the contrary! I love the real-life/in-game images side by side; the attention to detail is fantastic. Really got me thinking about the game in a different way and looking forward to more. Great write-up!