MadOnion
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Posts posted by MadOnion
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52 minutes ago, Manunited_fan said:
Hi,
Long time FM-er, only occasional tactics dabbler. Usually I'd use a P&P tactic, but this year I'm trying to experiment and make my own tactic. Safe to say, it's a work in progress. I've read a lot of the material that has been posted on here over the years, but am very bad at identifying how things apply to my system, or what I should be looking for to understand why issues are occurring.
I'm currently using Man Utd and want to play an attacking system that focuses on getting goals out of both Ronaldo and Bruno, with support from the likes of Rashford. I'm looking for assists to mainly come from Sancho, Shaw and Pogba. Unfortunately we're not blessed with midfielders and I haven't found it easy to fill those spots in the summer window so I do lack depth and solidity in that midfield two (I feel like Ole, having to rely on McFred haha). I'm doing okay against some teams, but struggling to beat the low block teams. Also early on in the season, I did find I was losing to the more mid-table teams. This was usually due to conceding first half goals.
So far I'm getting a good goal output from Ronaldo and assists from Sancho in the more open games, but no real contribution from Bruno at all. Rashford has been injured so hasn't played much yet. Shaw is really active and getting in to good spaces, just not really creating any clear cut chances.
One goal I'm seeing a lot, is a long ball down the middle, my LCB stepping up and missing the header and the striker running in behind them to score or either cut it back. Either that or my RCB stepping in to midfield to win a challenge and being done by a through ball round them. Also seen in the data hub that we're really struggling to make tackles:
I appreciate that Pogba isn't going to be the most useful in a midfield two but if I play Fred in there (as I've had to do a lot when Pogba covers in the positions further forward), I'm worried that he's not really suitable to be a deep-lying playmaker and if I change that role I'm not sure what I'd use instead.
In terms of goals, I'm creating lots of low-quality chances, the box seems very clogged, we put headers over the bar or its straight at the goalie.
To add to all this, because I don't really know what is and isn't working I do tend to tweak a lot in the hope something works, without ever really settling on a tactic and running with it. I have no confidence in what I have done is correct.
If you could kindly help me identify how to improve my system, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
In the current match engine an inside forward will look to score often. I imagine he will not have much space to run in to with an AF, a Shadow Striker, a wing back with a tendency to roam and even Pogba with his forward traits all occupying the same zones. Too much overloading perhaps?
Personally I'm ok with Rashford's and Bruno's roles, but I'd tweak Shaw's and Ronaldo. He does tend to drop deep irl, so a DLF might fit him like a glove.
I would also swap Pogba with Scott (bring the roles alongside them) so Rashford has even more space to explore.
If you want Rashford to be more creative, I don't think him being a IF is the answer. I probably wouldn't trust his vision/decisions.
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I imagine with a cautious mentality (in fact with any mentality really) and having everyone in your back line on defend and your front line on attack that compactness is an issue.
Pause the game when you lose the ball and again when you win it and see if you can notice any patterns and if you're happy with how your players are positioned across the pitch.
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When I look at this guy it reminds of Ruud Gullit (also quite fitting he plays for AC Milan). With that flair, dribbling and long shots I'd definitely play him further up the pitch, anywhere behind the striker or even as a striker. He could also be a great CM-A (with a few tweaks to his PPMs)
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I'd imagine with Porto pressing in a 442 they will match your backline? Is your DM dropping deep to offer numerical advantage? Does he have the PPMs to do so?
Give the HB a go or maybe the DLP. An alternative would be to ask your GK to distribute to fullbacks so there's less risk if they lose the ball in not so dangerous areas.
That's where I'd start.
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4 hours ago, wakesta said:
Has anyone tried this tactic & had any success with this?
I'm pretty sure that whatever portal/app you used just laid out the formation/tactic as such without any context. It probably has no meaning whatsoever.
While Benfica predominantly plays the 442, on the pitch it is very fluid, morphing into a 4231, 4222 (picture), 424 or even 433 when Waldschmidt drops deep.
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21 hours ago, zabyl said:
Creating overloads with brute forcing opponents are common amongst experienced FM players. However; experienced people don't ignore defensive solidity.
Not necessarily an issue. You can be really aggressive upfront, by defending from the front, if you have the players for it.
Some prefer 1-0s others 5-4s. It's called risk/reward ratio, unless you have 22 world class players.
17 hours ago, rile95 said:would be better if i play with 2 dms something like dm on defend and segundo volante?
How fast/intelligent are your CBs? Once your Line of Engagement is crossed, your midfielders/striker will start counter-pressing. I suspect if you play against a system say 4321, you will have at least 3 players beyond that line, and therefore a 3v3 situation.
I'd personally try a couple of things with the caveat of knowing absolutely zip about your players:
- Ask your GK to act like Neuer by asking him to step forward earlier (SK-S/A with whatever PIs required), so he can cover more effectively the CBs
- Change your CBs to be on defend duty (you pick the roles) and add the Offside trap
- OPTIONAL: defend from the front which means maxing out your LOE and add Prevent shot GK, since you have players in the area already that can help with the pressing.
No problem in sticking with a system. If that doesn't work, you may need a change of personnel or your players need a bit more development/training.
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On 03/03/2021 at 11:45, the SLC said:
you need to enlighten us with your set pieces as the most assists I've achieved in a season is 22!!
This wasn't hard to achieve when you have Bastoni (6ft3 and imho best CB in the game) and Ajer (6ft6) as your CBs (Anel Ahmedhodžić who is 6ft4 is the first backup alongisde Teden Mengi).
Bruno was in charge of all free-kicks (indirect too) and corners. Free-kicks were set as default, but corners were all going to the first post where the CBs were lurking!
But the tactic was also designed for him to explode the key passes (I think he got 100 more than the 2nd places)... The advanced playmaker on support in bog-standard 4231. It was fun indeed but not sustainable since Martial's production (AF) dropped a bit.
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Manchester United has a very good playmaker in their books. You might have heard of him.
(Granted these stats have been inflated by set-pieces).
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It goes without saying but morale is really important. If you're on a bad run don't expect to hit the ground running with the new tactic. Praise their conduct/training etc...
I also tend to keep an eye on possession and number of shots. I'm not sure how good Brighton but those possession stats, and allowed shots on targets, aren't great for a team as good as yours, especially playing at home.
You may add "Dribble less", in order to aid possession. Your attacking duties will be responsible for dribbling along with and other players with "running" traits. There's also the "work ball into box", but I'd try one or the other in a few matches first.
Final tip: watch the game in comprehensive highlights for the 10/15mins whilst the tactic is new. Do you like what you're seeing? If not, what would you change and why?
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How many times have you started a new save?
Whenever you open these kind of threads, your XI is always from the first season.
One thing that is obvious is the fact Madrid is much better than Benfica, so my approach would be to either hit on the break (like you're trying to do) or dominate possession by being super cautious.
As you're trying to play counter-attacking football, and if your fullbacks are being exposed drop your wingers to the MF strata. If I recall both Rafa and Everton aren't the best in terms of work-rate, teamwork and aggression/bravery. Grimaldo is suspect too. So every little helps. Actually having them starting a little deeper will help withdraw their fullbacks a bit.
I recently found the Poacher amazing for these kind of system. He's great since he stays on the shoulder on the last defender. Darwin's pace if perfect for this.
Finally I'd pack the midfield with IWBs since these help with 2nd balls/duels.
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On 27/01/2021 at 17:13, Anexxias said:
Hi guys,
Very simple question, so apologies if it doesn't deserve its own thread.
This is my current system. It's working really well, but I'm not happy with the positioning of the HB and IWB.
I'm finding the HB is standing too far forwards from the CBs in possession (I want him to literally be sat as a 3rd CB), and the IWBs are too close to the backline. I've tried setting pressing less on the HB, and getting further forwards on the IWBs (who I want to be attacking the half-spaces behind the strikers), but their average positions aren't budging.
Any thoughts/ideas appreciated.
Cheers!
The HB is quite an aggressive role. I play with one and he goes everywhere, but he's also very good (Florentino Luis).
There are 2 thing you can do to help this:- Teach him to stay back at all times (PPM)
- Ask your goalkeeper to distribute to him
I found these two help achieve that behaviour during build up, but since I play counter-press and a higher defensive line (as you do), he will naturally venture forward if the chance is there.
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What do you mean about controlling games? More possession? Less shots conceded?
You can still have your Mezzala there, but if you want more presence in midfield, you can try using an IWB instead of your FBa. It's likely your Mez and winger/if will be using the flanks a bit, so unless you want to overload that flank even further, I'd try a IWB on defend and watch a few games. Be wary since a IWB requires a slightly different profile.
An alternative is to reduce or passing/tempo but again, watching the game (more than results) is key.
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@Toronto Blizzard to be blunt, we can only speculate about what suits your team. Instead I'd recommend you to play a few games offline first and do your own analysis. A CM-su next to a WB-A is fine, provided both players have the attributes to cover each other.
Having a DM does help, but I'd still keep an eyes on things. How?- Is my right flank being exposed?
- Am I conceding too many goals?
- On the other hand, is my DLP able to find my IF and the attacking WB? It can be a potent weapon.
That might be a good compromise or your method to the madness.
Speculation 1: I'd say the only issue (for now), is the increase of mentality the Overlap right TI adds to your WB which in turn will decrease the IW.
Speculation 2: If you're feeling your tactic has insufficient penetration, then add a deep runner of change the IW to an IF.Any balanced tactic will work offline or online. Contrary to what has been suggested here, you can beat "exploitable tactics" (hate the term).
I have an online save with a friend of mine and looking at his tactic/system/roles and even stats against certain games, I can see his tactic is quite brute force, but I have no way to prove this.
I lost the league by a point (I've done my tinkering when we started the save , but I won the champions league by changing my approach in certain games).0 -
It looks as though the loss against Stuttgart was more of a consequence of players being sent off.
@frukox mentioned a couple of good points. It's all about finding the balance and hitting that sweet spot. I'd keep an eye on possession but also the number of shots, that requires changing the strategy some time to time.
Against Hertha, did you have space into space and hit early cross on? Was that effective at all? Such strategy is beneficial when there's space to exploit. It doesn't seem that was the case. They had 0 shots, which can be a credit to your defence, but also to their unwillingness to come at you. In order for that to work, I'd probably lower the line of engagement in a bid to encourage them to come out a bit more.
Also, in my opinion, Brekalo's attributes are more suited to be a winger rather than a wide midfielder. His positioning, work-rate, bravery and aggression are quite low which means he'll probably shy away from any challenges.
A good way to leverage this would be change Kante's role to a CM-D, Carrilero or ball winning midfielder.
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14 hours ago, noelgod said:
I want to create a 4132 regista tactic from scratch. And would appreciate any suggestion.
Thanks in advance.
My main tactic in FM21 uses a regista. Is there a reason you want to use it other than its fancy name? Do you have the player for it? It's quite an aggressive role.
When I think of a regista, the first name that comes to mind is Pirlo.- Ahead of him he had hard-working players such as Vidal and Marchisio ready to do the dirty work for him (he won't defend much) as well as being keen runners. I have two ball winning-midfielders who are excellent defenders but also provide enough support going forward (PPMs help).
- Behind him he had world class defenders. I wouldn't use any special roles (such as ball playing defenders) since you want to maximise the Regista impact's in the game. Think about how you want your GK/CBs to distribute the ball to (ideally to him).
He will be a deep playmaker, so there's already enough space ahead of him, but I'd also ensure there's enough passing options.
Try to expand more on the players you have and the base formation you're after (the 4132 can be narrow, wide, asymmetrical etc)
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What is your media prediction for the season?
I'd be wary about using counter-press, a much higher defensive line, tight marking and get stuck in. I'm ok with the first two, but if the tight marking and get stuck in fail, that could leave your team exposed.
I suppose the main question is how/why are you conceding those goals? I'd go back a few games and analyse them. You may be able to spot a pattern.
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I struggle to understand why people think the 442 isn't suitable for possession football! Any formation can play however you want, provided the strategy is in place.
By the way, the 442 can become anything you want, again depending on roles, duties and PPMs, but that's a conversation for another day.
The high LOE coupled with Lewa's and Kane's work rate are great tools to defend from the front.What was the reason behind the loss against Werder Bremen? Set-pieces? Balls over your defence line? It seems they were quite happy giving up the ball and seize their chances. They were also somewhat efficient with 7 of the 10 shots on target. I'd watch the highlights again if you're that bothered about it.
If possession if your thing... you have a couple of attacking duties which coupled with a Positive mentality mean they will rush things. Also have a look at their PPMs.
In terms of your formation, roles and duties I wouldn't change a thing. Instead I'd remove counter and add either shorter passing or lower tempo and keep an eyes on things (if possession is really what you want).
You may lose a bit of directness but those attacking duties should still give you enough punch going forwards.3 -
With the 4231 you have enough bodies to both press and create goalscoring opportunities, however with your roles and duties I feel like another avenue of attacking the box is needed, either from deep CM/AM or one of the fullbacks. Their PPMs may drive them forward, but probably not as aggressive.
What do you mean by the striker not getting involved? Goals, assists, touches, dropping too deep? Since both Bruno and Martial are on support duties, have one tried one on support one on attack?
On a personal level, I'm not sure Martial is suitable as a CF. His concentration and vision are pretty poor if I remember. His PPMs however suggest he could be a good Poacher/AF.
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Another excellent update. Time for a what have I learned from the save, and what would I now do differently? part 2?
@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! On a serious note, I think your team is tailor made for the 343 LvG used in 95.
Both Alves and Pinto are/were fullbacks but very capable centre backs (De Boer/Reiziger... or Sergi/Ferrer at Barcelona). Don't think you've introduced us Guimaraes.
Dantas at the base of the diamond, flanked by Valentim and Costa.
Leao, the Litmanen incarnation.
Jota and Embalo on either side of Felix.What do you think?
Unfortunately, in FM21 you can't train the weaker foot
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What is your LOE and defensive line? Are they close to each other? Maybe try increasing the space between both.
Have you tried the mezzala/rpm instead?
Maybe try changing the IWBs to defend, if you haven't already.
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2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Anyway, if you do want a counter-attacking style, then the narrow 442 diamond is not an optimal choice of formation.
This is obviously your opinion but I would elaborate if I were you. It's not that black and white.
One thing is a playing style, another thing is a formation. The same formation can execute different playing styles.
It looks as though the OP showed success against top sides, who are likely to give up space, so with those TIs couple with the roles, I'd say counter attacking football is on. What he is struggling with is against the lesser sides where he, perhaps, needs a slightly different style. @ReadingFan82 correct me if I'm wrong.
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10 hours ago, ReadingFan82 said:
That is a possibility yes, I will try to keep a closer eye on this in my next few games and I will put short kicks on also.
That's also a very good point, against lesser teams who are more likely to sit back and just defend I'll try taking that off to try and stop the needless losses of possession I've been saying.
I've never thought too much about that, is there role that you would suggest would suit my team better than that? Also I'm pretty sure that when on defend the BWM doesn't roam but instead tries to hold just in front of the defense but I'm not 100% sure on that one.
I'd watch the first 10-15min in full first to understand what's going on. I'd pay attention to the GK and fullbacks only. Are they doing what you want them to do? I also just noticed you're playing a SK-A and his mentality will be quite high so that could explain the long balls (risk).
The DM position depends on what you want him to do. Give him a DM role first and see if you need additional tasks (using the same approach outlined above).
Last year I was a big fan of the HB against the big boys but that can be quite aggressive. My preference is a deeper playmaker, but you have a special player further forward in James Rodriguez.Against lesser you can either be more patient or aggressive (pressure cooker), sometimes you can try both strategies within the same game.
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Are your fullbacks being marked out when your keeper is trying to pass to them? I'd suggest also asking your keeper to take short kicks.
If you're struggling against the lesser teams and since you're playing pass into space, is there space to pass to?
I'm generally not a fan of the BWM as a DM but since you're not conceding too many I'd say that's ok. Typically I prefer a role that doesn't roam.
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The academy is well and truly alive in FM21.
Both Jota, Florentino and Gedson are out on loan and but they will return once their deals expire.
One can only hope Bayern doesn't activate the optional future fee in Dantas' contract.
I reckon Salihamidžić has been reading this thread and found their own Thiago Alcantara newgenReborn from the ashes... like a Felix
(Brother of the legendary Joao Felix)
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Whenever you open these kind of threads, your XI is always from the first season.
Trusting the Process - Collectivism, Rotations & Control
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! how did the integration of Felix, de ligt and de Jong go? I hope you weren't put off by some of the comments on here to carry on with the save.