olegmelnikov
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Posts posted by olegmelnikov
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I'm using 442 with Kaiserslautern. Very happy with my results:
Every season it was different 442.
From Cautious mentality with counter-attacking football...with Target man:
Now it is more about fast attacking football.
Sometimes I change player roles (for example BBM to BMW (S), F9 to DPF(S).
If I see that I have space to attack - Pass into space. If my opponent play narrow formation - I change width and play wider. Focus play down the right/left - If I see, that I have a chance to attack the side where my opponent has IWB.
In general, I'm very happy with 442 in FM24. At least in Bundesliga it works.
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On 27/10/2023 at 18:46, KGregory44 said:
Not sure if anyone else has had any luck with playing a direct, counter and aggressive 4-4-2? I've basically used these two formations all season, with Maxi Gomez at DLF/TF getting a tonne of goals from corners also.
Had some brilliant results against bigger teams too hitting them on the counter, also found some real luck with set pieces and having a large team good at headers.
Ohhh, my favourite 442...
The only question - why do you use "Slightly lower tempo" in the first tactic?
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Hey! Happy to see your new tactic! Your 442 was great - logical and simple. I created something close in FM 23, but I use 2 DM.
Just wanted to ask what do you think about wide playmaker in FM23? Are you happy with his statistics? Assists, key passes?
I was not happy with WP role and decided to change it for IWs, but my player has trait "tries killer balls".
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Do you use this tactic in every match? How do you adapt this tactic when you play, for example, away game with Liverpool? With Mid-table teams? For me, this setup is too risky for every game usage.
You are using positive mentality. Left flank: IWa and WBa and DMs as cover for two attacking players...Sometimes it will work, for example, in home game. But when you play away game it could give you some problems. In combination with agressive pressing. Maybe you should try to make small tweaks in away games or also at home, when you observe some problems. Small tweaks could help you to reduce draws and maybe not to loose in away games with TOP teams.
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10 hours ago, bibird. said:
Might be obvious, but does he have a PPM like "comes deep to get ball" or are you playing with a shorter passing TI? These things could mean that your TF will come deeper to get the ball.
No, I signed Mitrovic with PPM "Plays with back to goal" - in my opinion this is ideal PPM for TF.
I play more direct passes with balance mentality and standard with positive.
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3 hours ago, nidhar.ram said:
But I am not sure if that's what TF especially on attack is supposed to do. IMO, he must be the player always sitting on the last defender with his back to the goal, trying to win long balls and clearances from deep and laying it to runners from wing and midfield.
Yes, agree with you. To be honest, the way of how TF drops deep totally ruined my plan how I want my team to play the first season after promotion.
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Interesting discussion, lads!
I manage Reading now, my second season, using rather simple 442, with classic pair: TF and AF. In my opinion, in fm22 TF plays completely differently to previous fm. My key observations: TF (A) drops much deeper than ever in FM and attracts fewer long balls. My AF attracts much more long balls from deep, trying to beat the offside trap. I need to play more games to be completely sure about it, but this is what i saw in first 6 matches.
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45 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:
But, having on the same side, a MEZ(a) with a WB(s) behind him, isn't too risky? Because both have make forwards runs instruction.
I think that's okay. You manage Benfica - top team, at least in your division. You have Weigl as a HB.
As an idea, you can try to play WB in automatic duty when you play against strong teams or your opponent has main attacking force on this wing
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When I read something about 442, I always want to play 442
Great job!
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35 minutes ago, Christopher S said:
Like so:
What average possession do you have?
36 minutes ago, Christopher S said:I'd dominate play and generally take the lead by 1-0 or 2-0. Then be completely powerless to defend said lead, and get overrun for the rest of the game.
Do you use Counter Press as a constant TI? May be your players are not ready for counter pressing for the whole match? For me, split block is much safer)
And what your idea to for Play Out the of Defense? You have DPde and seems that you want fast transitions?
53 minutes ago, Christopher S said:PFat
IFsu APat Wat
BWMd BBMs
FBat CDde BPDde FBsu
SKsu
For me, no holding role for CM in 4231 = a lot of problems)
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28 minutes ago, Christopher S said:
I've never been able to get direct/fast attacking 4-2-3-1's to work at all - only possession based.
Yep, that's true. My last try of 4231 was with Borussia Dortmund.
I wanted to play 4231, but I didn't want to play possession based football. My solution was "Fast possession" attacking football =)
So, I used positive mentality, shorter passing, higher tempo.
As the result for 3 seasons:
- 3 times champion, 2 domestics cups, 3 supercups, but every year I was knocked from Champion League - first knockout round, all 3 times from English teams from London - Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham)
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Wow, yep. it's great progress. He has rather average Positioning and Concentration, but it can be compensated by anticipation and acceleration.
19 minutes ago, Christopher S said:What do you think?
You know, on paper it looks pretty well. And only you can see how your team plays matches, especially with stronger teams.
And of course it is very interesting to look on your tactics wholly (mentality, TI).
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As an idea, but maybe I'm totally wrong...
As for me you do not have good pair of CM for 4231, so I could think about 433 Wide?
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5 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:
Overall the results have been good, couple of disappointing draws but they are tough games.
Mr. Abramovich is it you?
16 matches, 14 wins, 2 draws, 42 goals - 2.6 average per match, only 6 conceded
I think that's great results)
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3 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:
@olegmelnikov hasn't been happy with Moriba but i think my stubborness has left me saying he will work at DLP!
14 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:Speaking of player selection, the most important thing when using the 4231 formation is to make sure that both CMs are defensively reliable players, besides being able to provide forwards with proper support.
So, I scouted Moriba in my save)
As for me, he is not perfect player for 4231 as DPsu.
He is very good player, but for me is much more attack minded (positioning 11 and traits "run with the ball often" and "tries tricks" are not for the holding CM role in 4231.
I suppose Camavinga/Tonali is perfect mactch for this position.
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11 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:
Thanks, i thought it looked good but unfortunately my players didn't!
Just lost away to Villa and now this to Brighton...and if it wasnt for the last 10mins the xG was very much in Brighton's favour.
I love this game but my lack of success is killing me! :@
Patience and only patience)
How many matches have you played with new tactics? What about tactical familiarity?
Do you watch full match? How did you concede goals from Brighton? Counters?
And I'm still not sure about Moriba as DP... Can you share a screenshot of his stats and traits?
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9 minutes ago, Christopher S said:
I don't like WBa without a DM.
I don't like WBa at all) too risky) WBsu and TI overlap works pretty well.
10 minutes ago, Christopher S said:Rice is an excellent player and it could work - only way to try is to test it out.
Test it out is very important.
11 minutes ago, Christopher S said:The CAR role will cover the left flank and link up defense and attack nicely.
Yes, that was the first role I've thought about. For possession based style could work pretty well.
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3 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:
3 years with no trophies has made me feel inferior!
No need to apologise also, happy to take criticism and any advice. Personally i prefer 4 3 3 classic but really struggle for goals with that tactic.
I will revert to WBsu with James, he was that in previous seasons.
You've got very powerful and young players - I think everything is ahead)
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Personally, I don't like CMsu in 4231. He competes with AMsu in your tactics.
Sorry, but why you don't play James as a WBsu? In some matches add Overlap Right TI to improve his mentality. WB is much more aggressive and you have Camavinga as a great cover). Do not forget, you manage Chelsea
And sorry, for me the defensive part of your tactics is vulnerable. High defensive line, Counter Press as constant TI (could be very dangerous in matches with TOP teams).
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1 hour ago, Christopher S said:
That seems like a good starting point - well put.
In case you'd like to go another route, you can try this:
- Like Demus said, swap the roles of your two CMs.
- Felix and Fati are currently set up to be your primary attacking threats through the roles you've selected. If you want to keep that, change your striker to DLFs, CFs or an F9 (depending on your strikers attributes). This will turn him into a creative player instead, creating space and linkups for Felix and Fati to play off of.
- I personally don't mind Higher DL + Higher LoE. Compressing space by lowering the LoE is fine, but if you feel like your central defenders and central midfielders are controlling the space in the middle well as it is, don't change it. That way, it can be a situational change against teams that are creating trouble in that space, or against teams that are parking the bus (to draw them out).
- Consider a split block if you haven't instructed it. This means adding More Urgent pressing to your front 4 players. It synergizes very well with top heavy formations like 4-2-3-1, and with high block systems like yours.
- I would also try changing your FB-left from FBs to WBs, to support the IFa better, and to link up more with the DLPs (that will be on the left side now). If that results in him getting too far up, you can tune that through PIs like Cross from Deep or Dribble Less. That way, he will be less inclined to lose the ball himself.System after tweaks:
Suggested PIs:
Striker, AML, AMC, AMR: More Urgent Pressing
If your WBs leaves too much space and/or loses the ball while trying to dribble to the byline: Dribble Less/Cross From Deep----------------------
That should leave you with two different systems that have different primary outlets for goals.
In Demus' version, Silva remains a primary goal threat together with Fati, while Felix takes a creative role. In my version, Felix and Silva switch primary responsibility. Worth nothing that in both versions, both Silva and Felix will still get goals and assists due to their positioning and attributes.
@MRAFTCT as for me - great tweaks.
I only can advise to be more compact in defense.
4231 - is a top heavy formation. I think there is no need to play higher line of engagement. Higher defensive line + standard LOE can be perfect. And split block of course.
And sorry, but I'm not sure about your choice of players for your 2CM. Tonali better to play as DP, but Moriba - he is not good in defensive play as for me.
These two positions (2MC) are vital for your play. You definitely need 2 players who are at least good in defense.
And for your RB role - i think Wing back can give much more support than FBa
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18 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
No. Roles and duties are in the first place for any tactic and tactical style. How you set them up is key.
Sorry, I said it wrong. Roles and duties are the base for any tactic. But when we speak about counter attacking football, fast transitions - mentality makes your tactics work properly.
In fm20 I managed Leicester. Roles and duties were well balanced (thank you for all your posts
), but I watched matches and saw that something does not work. I made one tweak - switched mentality from balanced to positive. And it was totally another team.
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Not at all.
I think real experts @Experienced Defender, @zyfon5 can g help you much more than me)
It seems to me that you do not pay the necessary attention to mentality.
As for me, mentality is the key to fast counter attacking football. Roles and duties are on the second place and team instructions polish your tactics.
To play fast counters you have to allow some level of risk to your players, especially when you play against Top teams. So, I think positive mentality can be great for style of football you want.
So, I think you need to choose mentality, balance roles and duties, polish your tactics with team instructions and bring title to Bremen)
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And what about mentality?
As for me, you have very risky tactics. Especially in the defence. Mezzala AT combined with IfAT and wing back. On the other wing you also have runner MC, IfAt and also wing back. Mandragora has a lot of defensive work to do).
And it looks like that you want to play fast, direct, attacking football, but you decided to play with High LOE, so you reduced the space to run, but the biggest issue is loss of compactness in defence. I think to play higher defensive line and standard LOE is much better for the style of football you want to play (of course, in my opinion, may be I'm totally wrong)
I think you should think about duties of your players (right IF to support for example) and try to be mo solid in defence.
Did you use this tactics in your first season? Do you have positive results?
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I think this topic can add some ideas how to balance your tactics
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Ohhh, my favourite 442...
Joey's Incessant Obsession with the 442
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Great post - the only thing I can say