[How do I...]

The set piece thing is ****ing ****. Please can someone explain why when I chose a player, like Leao to be counter attack he still ends up in the wall. And I dont get how it changes so randomly. Im frustrated by this crap

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

The amount of goals I score on corners are ridicilous!!! Its extremely easy. Never been like this in previous fms, or is it just me?

[Tactical creator is stale]

2 hours ago, The3points said:

Have to disagree on that last count. The Data Hub is probably the best feature they've added in the last 3 years: before it was very much a struggle to see in what aspects your tactics was working, and also how well your team played, and the data upgrades to FM23 almost made me want to buy it. It makes it quite easy to isolate certain areas of your tactic and compare to real life statistics of model clubs.

While it may have helped you, and Im sure there are others who felt that too. I just dont think its a feature worth putting much effort and it was an example of features. Dynamics is one of them as well. Its trying to be realistic but it just not necessary especially when so much of the game is far from realistic. Like tactics or lack of, individual roles etc etc. I just think they should focus more on giving us better dimensions of these things ahead of crap like that. Hell, maybe even add more attributes to players and so on. Anything that actually makes the game FUN and makes you feel that YOU actually can be the manager YOU want to be instead of generic presets (in tactics, in player roles, in transfer market etc etc)....

[New hidden personality attribute: Pragmatism]

No,! No hidden attributes. Its already ridicilous that we have "consistency", "important matches", "injury proneness" as ones. Seriously, this is not the 90s where we didnt know how consistent or big game player players were. Players are being thoroughly scouted almost to grass root level. Its POINTLESS to have these hidden attributes unless you're plaing LLM. By LLM i mean like div 6 in sweden...

[What features must appear in FM24 for you to buy the upcoming edition?]

-LESS of the statistical crap and that flashy **** that only looks cool but in reality is completely useless (data Hub and the likes).

-MUCH more tactical flexibility where I can dictate how I want my players to play. My definition of an inside forward or roaming playmaker is apparently not the same as the games hard coded versions. Same with tactics and the movement.

-BETTER match engine where I see more variety in how goals are scored.

-BETTER transfer activity from big teams. They end up buying crap players after a while and handicapp themselves.

[Tactical creator is stale]

There are so many things missing in this game as in regards to tactics and I honestly have given up on trying to play it for the "invention" of having my own style of play. I do play FM cause its fun. But the tactics and the roles are so generic, stale and also based on already hard coded attributes on what THEY think a "winger" (for example) is. There is so much limitation and FM arent working on that instead on crap like Data Hub and all that fancy ****....

[When are you too old for FM?]

Im 39 so I dont feel too old but I do feel like Im in a situation where FM feels very limited in how much they change stuff. Kind of like those FIFA fans. Reasons explained in my other post

[FM limits my tactics!]

16 hours ago, FM1000 said:

Good luck OP, I have been arguing in favor of blank roles since the version that removed the sliders...

The counter argument is that is that if they allow blank roles it would be unfair to the AI...in a game where there is an editor inside the game allowing you to make all of the AI players terrible and your own player better than Messi LOL..

If they are worried about bug reports then make it a setting, like custom tactics tickbox that if you select it you can't upload a game for bug reports or something.

Honestly its just a terrible excuse anyway. People who wants to cheat/exploit the game will do so anyway. I actually do use the in game editor in a lot of my saves. But I use it so I can dictate transfers for the big teams as more often than not in about 3-5 years they just become way worse and I lose the challenge. So I use the in game editor to make transfers that the AI wouldnt make. I always end up with making my opponents stronger than me cause its fun

[FM limits my tactics!]

17 hours ago, (sic) said:

Idk how I'm lost in translation. They said they wanted to see LESS tactical flexibility. That would imply removing certain things, or not allowing the players have as many available options, because the AI can't do the same.
 

If anyone wants to use exploit tactics, they're free to do so. They're not impacting your own gameplay in any sort of way. I personally never used those tactics, as there would be 0 challenge, and therefore it wouldn't be interesting to me.

 

In your previous comment, you said it's a "Realism issue". I agree, but because the current tactical creator isn't realistic.
You say "FM is based on realism" and I'd argue it's not completely true. It's based on SI's version of realism. The roles are roughly based on what exists in real life, but the roles are also unrealistic. You have very little control over how your players actually move around and play, because the positions and roles are hardcoded to behave in a certain way. The way SI told them to. Not necessarily the way they do in real life.

In real life, players aren't hardcoded like that.
A CM could drop in the left back or right back spots to help in the buildup, L/Rightbacks could form a back 3 to help in buildup. They wouldn't necessarily ALWAYS do that thing, but only when needed and when it makes sense. 
WBs in Wingback positions would often play as wingers in possession, often being the furthest forward players, being in line with the striker. And in defense, they would often press high, and/or drop deep to form a back 5.
Yet none of these are really possible in FM, because the roles are hardcoded to do certain things. So we can pray that SI introduces new roles that do these things, or that they allow us to have more control over player movement. 
I'd also agree that the AI needs to be way smarter, but not only the opposition manager's AI. The overall ME AI, the ways players react to things, their "IQ", etc. needs to be massively improved.

In real life, you could name a few different "Deep-Lying Playmakers". None of them would play the same. Not only because of their "attributes", but also due to tactical instructions. Tactical instructions that we do not currently have in game.

I'm not even completely for having blank roles. But I'm all for having more tactical and player instructions, in order to help us change the way that role plays.

Thank you so much this is exactly what I mean!

 

In no way are the roles in FM a general interpretation of what the roles are IRL but what Sigames believe them to be and they're therefore hardcoded to act as such. This is why a role in one addition of FM can be very different from the next. It can be in small things like how they track back, how much etc....

 

I honestly dont even play FM seriously anymore, meaning I dont have a savegame where I find it fun and challenging because I know that whatever tactics I come up with, my team wont play like I want them to but roughly to how I want them too.

[FM limits my tactics!]

6 minutes ago, herne79 said:

AI managers are a big reason why we can’t fully customise or have blank roles.  AI managers are nowhere near as smart as us humans which means we would have a massive advantage over AI managers when it comes to designing and using custom roles.  Sure we have one or two roles where we can do a fair amount of customisation, but having that across the pitch throughout most (all?) positions would be too much for the AI to cope with.

There is also a realism issue.  FM is based on realism and the roles we see are based (some better than others) on real life roles.  So yes, it may be a little daft that one match we say to AI Messi play as a Trequartista while the next match we say play as an Inside Forward, but the role itself is based on something you could say Messi did perhaps play as, at least from time to time.  This means it isn’t exactly realistic to think up and design our own roles if the whole premis of the game is based on realism.

Personally I’d love to see more customisation but first and foremost I’d like a challenging game but as things stand that wouldn’t be possible if we had more (or full) customisation.

The AI not being smart enough yet is a fair point I guess and they wouldn't cope with it. Just to be clear, in no way am I talking about creating tactics/roles etc for the sake of exploiting a weakness in AI. I merely want to see my players behave in a tactical setiup as I want to.

 

Here's an example of a change that FM has made. I remember the first year the introduced the Half Back role for DM. I could then have two center backs and a DM with a half back role. In the game what would happen was that the center backs would stay out wide like RB and LB and the HB would turn into a CB when we lost the ball. I liked this version. But in the coming FMs I have noticed that the center backs dont act like that at all and leave me completely open on the flanks. Regardless if I put their specific rols to be more wide and so many more.

 

Its these "little" things that limits what I would like to see.

[FM limits my tactics!]

1 hour ago, Footix said:

If you think of "roles" as a set of pre-defined instructions, it makes sense. Although I don't like that some instructions are locked for the roles. It makes the system too rigid. I can no longer tell my player to do a certain role " - but I don't want you to run that much with the ball". Gotta go with another role, which may have other instructions locked in. 

I'd much rather have a "blank slate" role, where I could add the instructions I wanted. 

Yes, I very much agree with this!

[FM limits my tactics!]

On 16/10/2022 at 01:41, FelixForte said:

I always understood roles to be presets of tactical instructions, which have been tested and confirmed to behave in certain ways. I view them more as ‘templates’ or starting points. E.g if you want your fullback to underlap; you may well start with preset IWB and then start tweaking whatever instructions you disagree with. I know there are certain restrictions but I’m usually able to have the players execute what I like within a given role.

I think giving users access to a ‘open’ role with no preset instructions and full customization optionscould make sense for the hard core player, but may also lead to players acting in inpredictable or inconsistent ways. As SI mentioned with the introduction of wide center backs, they extensively test any roles (and I presume associated instructions) to check the behaviour of players in that role. An open role may be more exposed to systematic errors in the match engine

Thats the thing though. YOU understood it to be just presets. Perhaps they are. My other issue with it is that these roles doesnt give me a clear picture of what they will do on the field. How much does an Inside Forward in a AML position track back vs an Inverted Winger? If they even track back. Plus, the other problem is that sigames makes role based on what THEY think the roles function as. For instance, the roaming playmaker is someone who apparently needs to have good shots so he can be a threat and someone who goes inside the opponents box. I disagree with that. Xavi in his days was the best RPM and he had lousy shots, rarely got into the box and all. Just one of MANY examples. Plus, I want to be able to create my own "roles" instead of having to wait for a new edition of FM until I have the Wide Center Back available..... (example)

 

 

On 16/10/2022 at 02:45, higofagundes said:

FM09 is the game for you!!!

 

I never liked players roles, this started in FM10 as an innovation, but i thought it was just a way to make the game easier for new players and limit who likes to make tactical inventions working or not.

 

print of FM09 showing that everything could be changed in a player regardless of the team's tactical instructions...good times.

 

Oh yea I totally forgot about that lol. While this is something similiar of what I ask I guess, even this one is limited. I mean I like the current one. I just feel they need to have a lot more options then for instance just: "Press more".....

On 16/10/2022 at 04:23, Andros said:

I get what you are saying op, but that old system led to a few problems: 1) a small tweak could completely break the player and 2) exploiting the game.  

Honestly its a bad excuse to use. People who want to exploit the game will find a way to do so. I merely want a game where I can actually experiment with tactics and get my team to play EXACTLY like I want to. Obviously not exactly but its pretty demotivating when you see that you cant make a certain player act a certain way to save your life.

[FM limits my tactics!]

Been playing this game since, well, more than I probably should lol. With all the changes Ive seen through years, some very welcome and some not so welcome I feel that what I like the most about fm is the tactical flexibility. I feel that while some player roles are good to have I feel its too restricted in what I expect from the players in my tactical setup. Why do I have to wait for Sigames to come up with a new role (like the latest one being Wide Center Back) when I should have the ability to create that "role" on my own, based on player traits and what I ask them to do.

 

I just feel that while some roles are necessary to have I just dont see why we need to have roles that are set in certain ways, in EVERY position. I really doubt someone says to Messi/Neymar: you're the inverted winger in this game. And it gets even more restricted when I cant chose how much I want a player to defend. I've noticed that in older FMs, the inside forward would track back more defensively whereas it does far less so in the newer games. This is something that is just stupid cause theres nothing in that role that tells me exactly how much a player tracks back, or something else.

 

I couldnt give a rats ass about "Data Hub" and all that crap when I dont feel like I can have my team play exactly like I want to.

[Football Manager 2020 - Feature Announcement Blogs]

Ive voiced my "concerns" so Im not gonna repeat myself. While I have hope, every year, that FM will take the next step its just not happening. I feel that every year its just tweaks more than anything substantially. They've revamped the training bit. Does it really change much in game though? Does it add much flair to the game? Anyway, this year Im gonna buy it from second hand cause I dont feel that they deserve my money. I think its healthy that there are different opinions and I dont understand why people think that critisizing the game means you're not a fan or too picky or whatever...

[Football Manager 2020 - Feature Announcement Blogs]

To me this is just meh...

 

Once again FM are "tweaking" when they need to come stronger in their changes on things that actually matters. Like the flexibility of being able to make a formation based on what YOU believe in and not some copy paste, scripted, tactics. Way to think INSIDE the box instead of outside the box. These changes add nothing in the long run to a save because ultimately when you play FM, you play for the football GAME. The joy of seeing your team PLAY the type of football you desire completely. If I want my inside forwards to also chase back, I SHOULD have that option. Amongst many other things

[Football Manager TV: Football Intelligence]

14 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

And on FM they also do make decisions based on form: when signing a player while in terms of team selections it doesn't seem to matter as the CA is the important factor for the AI. It makes no sense to make the AI more prone to sign the type or quality of players that they are never going to be playing.

Victor Moses and Fabian Delph for example IRL were thought not to be the quality of Chelsea and City but they get selected based on their performances while this is not the case on FM and you often even see players falling out of grace for no reason. Nemanja Matic is good example of this on FM where Chelsea basically always abandoned him for no reason as he performed the first half of the season just to be replaced by someone with more pace.

The AI is always going to be playing or not playing their players based on CA and with this 'new feature' it's understandable that we are fearful that there will be more cases of great team signing a decent player that will never even get a chance to show their quality.

It doesnt seem to matter? Really? It matters exclusively! Here's a tip, buy Valon Ahmedi (despite his **** stats) and play him. Look him tear it up for some reason. Now, try to sell him for more than 20m euro... go ahead, Ill wait. Than buy Hirving Lozano and sell him after a season. Do this experiment for yourself (there are so many more...) and you'll see just how awfully scripted this is

 

As for the second paragraph. I strongly disagree that such things happen cause of in form. More to do with other things than that.

[Football Manager TV: Football Intelligence]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Clearly we can see star ratings and the AI can too, so a scout should rate better players better than weaker players. As star rating can be influenced by form, this can lead AI teams to buy players based on that. It happens in FM17 already.

It has NEVER happened that a higher PA player gets sold less than a less PA player REGARDLESS of form. If you have a 19-23 years old with a PA of 160+ you can easily make BIG bucks with every little effort. If you have a 130 PA player...well good luck.

[Football Manager TV: Football Intelligence]

3 hours ago, Barside said:

Paragraphs 2 & 3 are simply untrue & are based on misguided perception of belief in FM myths.

There is some truth in your first paragraph however it’s not universal, the best managers & recruitment teams will extensively scout players with a decision to sign being based on whether they believe the player will fit their system & that needs to be part of the variety in FM, good scouts & good scouting practice should mean something while also being rare to achieve by both AI & user due to the pressures place on them for instance success & in some cases a care free attitude to the availability of transfer funds.

I strongly disagree and while fm17 has less of it, fm16 was so easily scripted when it came to transfers. Usually in FM I play 3-4 different saves, one LLM, one about my fav team Parma and one where I use the in game editor. By using the in game editor I could easily spot the patterns of the AI. Which, honestly, you dont really need an in game editor to spot.

[Football Manager TV: Football Intelligence]

10 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Happens in real life too... Yes but in real life the managers do not have full list of attributes from both their own players and the players that they've scouted and it's fairly simple for them to see how good the player is both compared to their aims and what they currently have. In real life it's much harder to be sure about this. 

And about flopping, yes players do flop in real life but in FM probably because of their CA they don't even see out if the player is a top or flop as they don't play them. 

The AI doesn't have any advantages in the transfer market. 

In the end it is mainly going to be us human users who benefit if the AI will start buying even more of 'decent' players to top level clubs and then selling them with peanuts. The AI needs to improve in the transfer market, not become even more exploitable. 

The point is though that even in real life managers make decisions on form. My biggest problem with the AI is that in fm15 it was so oviously scripted that the AI could spot these 170 - 200 PA players. Or how a complete **** team had a 170+ PA player that was worth 100k euro but wouldnt sell him for anything less than 40-70m euro. Thats how I always knew if a player was worthwhile.

 

In so many saves I have players who perform a lot better than another one who has higher PA. Yet, that player gets sold for a lot more than the in form one.

[Football Manager TV: Football Intelligence]

I dont understand people saying that human users could easily manipulate the AI with the new "players will also be judged by form" in a transfer. You guys do know it happens for real too? One team buys a player that have a massive season and gets sold only to be a complete flop and sold to a worse team again. It only becomes a major weak point if the AI cant sell the said player at all or for a ridicilously small fee. Otherwise I welcome this.

 

The AI has far too many advantages in FM17 when it comes to "finding" the right players. If there is a colombian with a PA of 170, you can bet your ass that Real Madrid, Arsenal etc will have shortlisted him. Its so programmed that the big elites are first to find these 160-200 PA players.

 

Unsure if a player is the next big thing? Just look if real, barca, man city etc are after him. Or you can do another test. Put an offer of, say the player is worth 100k euro, 2million euro. If they accept, he is ****. If they demand over20meuro than you got yourself a superstar....