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  1. Whats the difference between the PPM "comes deep to get the ball" and "likes ball played into feet"? does the second one discourages forward runs as the first one does?
  2. In general what are the difference between playing a Tetraquartista and an Advanced Playmaker in Attack duty?
  3. I'm on my third season: Lemar is sitting on the bench being the first sub for both Felix and Gabriel Jesus Correa was sold to Manchester United at the end of last season to help fund the transfers of Tielemans and Gabriel Jesus Gimenez was sold before i joined Atletico (I joined after the first season was over) Koke was an undisputed starter last season but he has recently underperformed and lost his place in the team to Saul and Tielemans. He does play fairly regularely though. May i have a screenshot of your tactic? Could help me try some new ideas and try to integrate them to my tactics. Also good shout on Bellerin, full backs and a new ball playing centre back are all positions i'm looking to improve next season.
  4. Hi all. First of all thank you all for all the suggestions you've given me to my tactics. I've made a couple of changes to my tactic based on the observations made on this thread so this is what it looks like right now: Changes i've made: Turning my right back into a WB (S) Changing my DM to a HB (D) with PIs to Play more risky passes and Shoot less often Changing my striker to a PF (S) In general the main benefit i'm seeing is on my right flank, with Dagba/Trippier (now being played instead of Saul who, being left footed, was less efficient at providing both width and support with crosses) being a another option for both Tielemans and Llorente to play passes into space (Llorente is being instructed to play more risky passes so that he can still help making more pin point passes into the flanks now that he's not the main playmaker of the team). My team has become less dependant on my left wing to create chances, specially against deep compact teams because of this so i think this is the main aspect of the tactic that has improved. This however meant that both wing backs are bombing forward early during the construction play phase when i'm playing out of the back, which left me vulnerable if i lost the ball early during this phase. Llorente was changed to a half back specifically to help me combat this and it is working to great effect. He's leading the team in terms of key passes aswell with both him and Tielemans topping the team in terms of key passes and generally starting attacks through thrugh balls from both of them, which is nice in case Tielemans is being market or having a bad game. It also helps that a half back play deeper than a DM (D) during the early construction phase which helps decongest the midfield a bit, giving more space for Tielemans to recieve the ball without too many players around him. Also now that my striker is playing a support role, i'm seeing better interplay between him and the inside forwards, and his rating has sky rocketed since the change, being both the player with more assists and goals in the team. I'm still unsure if this is specifically because of the role and duty change or just because of being in good form. Some problems that i'm still unsure how to adress are the following: My inside forwards are still not playing good enough, with both of Felix and G. Jesus only creating 1 chance and giving 1 assist in 6 games. They've scored 4 goals in between them, with most of them being either penalties or low crosses from the full backs. I would like to improve their ratings, specially in terms of chances created but i'm unsure how and i'm a little hesitant to change either of them to wingers since i do want them playing in the half spaces, playing one twos with the rest of the team rather than focusing on staying wide and whipping crosses. I also want to add that the most dangerous attacking pattern than i'm seeing from them in terms of attack is when my HB or my AP plays a ball into space to the flank, which will make them move towards the wing, recieve the ball and either dribble into to the box and deliver a cross or play a ball to my wing back and have him deliver a ball to Morata. I'm happy with this move which happens a lot during my games but i think that given the creative qualities of both of my IFs i could be getting more from both of them with more tactical changes My b2b (Saúl) is also a bit of an inconsistent player within the team and i'm not sure what does he bring to the team in the tactical framework i've designed. I knew that i wanted a runner in that position but i did not want to play him in an attacking duty since i'm worried that that would leave my left flank too exposed, specially considering that my left back (Renan Lodi) is weak defensively in contrast to Dagba/Trippier on the right. I'm considering changing him to a Mez (S) but i cant figure out what he is doing wrong or what he should be doing better. As of now it is the position with the lowest overall rating of all my midfielders. That in terms of roles/duties. In terms of tactical instructions, i've removed be more expressive since i thought it was an unnecesary shout given the positive mentality i'm using (and that a lot of roles and players im using already display more progressive PIs and PPMs). I've also started to use a lower tempo when facing more defensive teams to help my team be more catious with the ball instead of trying to release it too quickly and it worked great against my last match away against Getafe. Ended up winning the match 4-0. I still feel that i'm not too flexible within the system itself aswell, and i struggle to make decisions during matches when i probably have to. Most of the time i just leave the tactic unchanged during matches as i'm too worried i could screw things up. Only changes i make are: Playing in an Offensive mentality and moving my full backs from WB (S) to WB (A) when chasing games i'm losing. Drop my D-Line to normal and unticking Use offside traps when playing against team that are dangerous on the counter or playing counter-pressing systems. As said before, playing a lower tempo against defensive sides. So far my team is playing great but i'm having a hard time mainly getting good performances from my IF, specially Felix. We are winning games and we're sitting top of the table after 6 games but i still feel there are things i can change to get the most out of my players. Form is great at the moment but i don't know if this is because i have great players or because the tactic is ticking together, and if it is the first then i'm not sure if it would be good enough to be competitive in the Champions League. As you may already guess by now, i'm not very strong at the tactical side of the game lol so any criticism and suggestions are welcome.
  5. Gotcha, will try that tweak. Initially i coosed playing a FB (S) there as i was playing both a Mez (S) and an IF (A) on that side so i thought it might be too much of an offensive setup on the right flank with not good enough cover. Guess it makes more sense with an AP (S) on that side now who will not move forward as much as the Mezzala and will definately need more support out wide. WIll probably try a HB (D) on the DM position as well since my team seems to be very weak at defending in the wings and adding another wing back might make my defense too fragile on the flanks when in defensive transition. By the way any suggestions with Felix's role/duty selection and those roles around him? on paper i think that a support duty suits him so that he can focus more on coming inside, getting the ball from deeper positions than in an attacking duty and focus on making runs into the box or playing balls to either my striker or my right IF. I think he has both support from the left WB (S), the B2B and the AP (S) and options forward from the AF (A) and the IF (A) but it doesn't seem to be working out. Any thoughts? I understand that front three configuration needs appropiate support both in midfield and in the flanks from full backs (if playing 4-1-4-1) but how could 2 IFs and AF not make sense? It is one of the most used front three role selection by the AI and even in real life lots of teams play with 2 players coming into the centre from the flanks and one striker making runs and playing on the shoulder of central defenders. I do agree with you that it can make offensive play too narrow and that defensive congestive systems are troublesome though. Most of the time when using this front three role selection i use two WB (S) which in turns make a tactic too dependant on crosses. And that is something that i constantly struggle with: 2 IF and 1 attacking duty forward in a positive mentality system makes sense to me on paper, however i struggle to give them good enough support to allow them to combine in between them and other players to create chances not coming from crosses. It is hard for me to believe that it is not possible to play with 2 IFs + AF in offensive systems without becoming predictable. Also keep in mind that all of my fron three have great ratings in attributes that allow them to play in close spaces (passing, control, first touch/decisions, composure, anticipation, concentration, etc). Also and just for the record, i'm not trying to imply that you are saying that it is impossible to play 2 IFs and 1 AF in positive mentalities. It is something that i wanted to point out because i've always struggled with that configuration without becoming too cross dependant for chances and i struggle to believe that there's no other way around.
  6. Hi All. I made a post in the quickfire questions and answers thread but it made more sense to move to a separate thread so there it goes. I'm in 2021 at the beginning of the 2021/22 season and managing Atletico at the moment. Last season i won the league with a very strong home record (won every match at home) but i was a bit underwhelming away from home (only 4th best team in term of points away at the league). Main problem was trying to break defensive teams. This is what my tactics and first eleven looks like, both Gabriel Jesus and Tielemans are new signings: Only changes from last season (tactically) where: -DM: Changed it from a DLP(D) to a DM (D) -Right MC: Changed it from a Mez (S) to an AP (S). Main reasoning being that i wanted to funnel my passing through the more creative and technically gifted Tielemans to help me crack more defensive teams. Also Saul rotates with every midfield role in the team and when he's not playing full back Trippier is in his position (Saul was very reliable when i needed more attacking interplay down the right last season). -Also changed both IF role dutys (last season left IF was in attack and right IF was in support). This was because last season i had Correa who i wanted to colaborate more in transitions and i wanted to have Joao Felix focus more on getting into the box and combining with Morata, being more involved in scoring than creating chances. This season i have Gabriel Jesus who is much more direct than Correa, so i've traded both roles around hoping for Joao Felix to be more involved in general play. As of now i've only played 3 official games in the 2021/22 season and i've struggled a lot in them, last game being a 4-0 loss away against Valencia. I'm not overreacting at the moment because its only 3 games and the same tactic worked very well last season but i'm trying to come up with new ideas to help me become more flexible with this tactic, so any suggestion counts so that i can have more cards up on my sleeve. Main problem seems to be that my full backs get too exposed when defending (Renan Lodi specially is not very good defensively) but i'm not sure how to balance out the rest of the roles without it affecting my midfield and attack too much. Another problem which i actually had from last season and continues to carry on this season is that i'm not fully getting the best out of Joao Felix. He did scored a lot last season but used to go pretty much anonymous for 5 games before scoring either a header from a cross or scoring from a penalty. He did get his chances (mainly through good dribbling on his own) but his finishing wasn't too effective which is odd since he has 15 Finishing. In general i want to play a more positive tactical approach, moving the ball quickly through shorter passing, encouraging creative freedom and pressing high up the pitch. So thats it pretty much. I don't think by any means that it is a bad tactical system but i think it could work a bit better (specially against defensive opposition away from home). So if any of you can spot anything i could change for certain scenarios, suggest better role/duty/personel changes and/or notice any glaring issues and weakness i would be glad if you could point it out for me. Thanks in advance
  7. Why do players sometimes have sudden drops on a lot of attributes at once? how is that explained in the context of the game and is it possible to do something to prevent it from happening? Player in question is Fabinho, playing for Real Madrid. He's 26, playing most matches as a starter and doesn't have a history of being injured too often (he's not injured atm either). He even has a decent training performance rating the same day his attributes dropped. Edit: Forgot to mention he mostly has good ratings when he plays and isn't in a bad streak of performance either.
  8. In my honest opinion i would instruct Neymar to be a Winger (A) so that he can use the full left side of the pitch to his advantage. He will still try to cut inside because he has the "cuts inside from both wings" trait and wide forwards do tend to get narrower once the ball reaches the final third unlike wide midfielders in the CM strata. Jordi Alba would ve used as a Left Back (S) to cover for him. I remember that during Enrique's period he had trouble getting good performances from Alba as he often prefered to give Neymar full positional freedom on his wing and he even used Mathieu a lot on the left instead of Alba because of this. Messi would probably be a TQ (A) on the right or maybe even an AP (S). Depends on what you want and what you need. Being a TQ would make him more direct i think because of the higher mentality. AP (S) could be a good instrucion if you want him to drop deep and start play combining with the central midfielders like he does now for Barca and most notably when playing for Argentina. Semedo/S. Roberto would probably have to provide an overlap so either WB (S) if Messi is a TQ or WB (A) if Messi is an AP (S). Just note that this flank will probably be a defensive weakness of your system so the right CM (assuming you play a 4-4-3) would probably be instructed with a more conservative role (think CM-S/BWM-S/B2B maybe even. Would probably not choose a playmaker role for this position to not make him pass the ball forever between him and Messi). Suarez while most people would have him be on an attack duty i think it depends on the role Messi is playing. If Messi is a TQ (A) then he might need someone to combine upfront so either DLF (S) or PF (S) for me (he will still try to make a ton of forward runs because he has the "try to beat the offside trap" trait). He Messi is an AP (S) then i think that Suarez will have to be more aggressive with his movement, so in this case either AF or PF (A) fits better i feel.
  9. Thats a very fair point and i haven't thought about it that way before. I'm mainly inclined to play a more possession oriented approach regardless of the team i manage but i've actually tried to be more flexible and try a more direct approach while still keeping a possitive/attacking mentality (both in terms of tactical mentality and general tactical approach). Which changes would you consider to make in order to make the ball move forward more quickly without turning into a counter attacking side (if i understand correctly)? Thanks in advance.
  10. Thank for you suggestions. Sorry i couldn't answer back sooner but i had a busy couple of the days lately. I do have a couple of things i would like to point out: As for PIs i'm intrigued by your decision to ask the left center-back to move wider. First thing i noticed though is that you moved my BPD to the right (is that to move him away from my DPL so that he's not bypassed during the initial build up from the back?). Regarding the instruction itself, is that for him to cover for the FB-A on the left when we have the ball? I'm also wondering whats the reasoning behind asking my HB to mark tighter and would love if you could explain why. As for team instructions: I'm a bit hesitant about using WBIB as i'm not against my fullbacks/wingbacks crossing the ball and taking advantage of space in wider areas (specially with Benzema and Bale being very good in the air). Maybe i could use it when playing against 3 at the back or against opposition that is good in the air in defense? Why would you use counter? i know that Real has great players to play on the counter but must of the time (specially in La Liga) opposition defenses will mostly stay back and soak up pressure so space to counter will mostly be scarse. On top of it i have the feeling (can't say if it is the reason why) that using counter speeds things up a bit too much during transitions and i see my players attempt more long-shots or way too risky passes that often end up giving possession away. Considering that TIs are mostly choosen to play a more possession orientented game i don't understand whats the benefit of ticking the counter instruction (specially considering the context of the teams that real often play against). I agree with pretty much everything else you suggested. My team recently suffered a bit of a slump in terms of performance but we are still winning matches. I'm considering getting a striker more tasked with scoring goals than being a pivot to make one-twos in the final third. Can i ask you how would you integrate an AF-A/PF-A/Poacher into the tactic?
  11. Thanks for commenting. I like the way you described that pattern as it often happened like that. I've since changed one IF (the one the left on a support duty) to stop making forward runs that often and it resulted in my centermids having another option to pass and combine before trying to find either my right IF-A or a WB-S overlapping. And also i agree with your second paragraph. I'm a bit hesitant to try an IWB as i deliberately want my IF working closer with the Striker rather than widening the pitch and looking for crosses. I feel like i lack a runner in the centermid, with a lot of my midfield options having the drop deeper to collect the ball PPM i'm unsure if they can fulfill that role effectively as a surprise outlet in the final third. I'll look into the transfer market to find a good option (Bernardo Silva would be ideal as he is both young, technically and mentally fantastic, fast and phisically impressive and more importantly has PPM that can generate that kind of movement regardless of the role chosen) Well, on paper the idea i had was that the IF-S on the left, regardless of him being instructed to get forward more often would still look to combine with both playmakers because of his support mentality, with Benzema dropping deep because of his role even while playing on an attacking duty being another option for my centermids to pass and combine before looking to find my right IF-A. I think that both instructing my IF-S on the left to get forward more often and playing my striker with such an offensive mentality made them more focused on getting in the opposition area quickly rather than dropping a little and looking to combine with me playmakers. Both WB-S were chosen to support my IF and to stretch the pitch, and with both IF pinning their respective opposion fullback, it made sense that the only space available was being exploited my Wing Baks getting forward and my playmakers passing to them. I've since changed my tactic to have one DPL-S on the left, a Mez-S on the right and instructing my left IF-S to sit narrower to combine with my centermids instead of getting forward more often and my players are combining more often, making my attack more dynamic and not depending on my WB-S dropping a good cross. Although this is often the way we score against very defensive opposition generally playing with 3 at the back defensive configurations.
  12. I've made the changes you suggested and match performance has gone through the roof. Will make a separate post to talk about it but i feel that playing a Mezzala (in this case, i'm playing a Mez on support on the right as you suggested) with a DLP-S really improved the general attacking play of the team. The centermids are more spread out, giving each other more space to dictate play and the Mezzala in particular is working wonders with the IF's, specially when he enter the area and causes confusion at the opposition's defensive line. Doesn't happen too often as i often choose to play Modric or Isco in this role and both have the drops deep to collect the ball PPM so they don't make too many forward runs when playing this role. And yeah i would be glad if you could show me what tactic you would play with this team. Keep in mind though that i'm mainly looking for 2 inside forwards and one striker playing closely together, trying to combine and play one-twos with 2 center mids supporting them and both wing backs stretching the pitch and providing the width. Your setup may differ from the way i'm trying to play with this team but it can definately spark some new ideas for me and help me being more versatile with the team, so go ahead please. Yes. I guess i was too focused on this trending positional play idea that every player has to play in a different spot on the pitch in order to create a more dynamic attacking approach. I've started playing with a Mez-S in the middle and it really started to make my team tick way more. The thing that is different is, as i've said before when answering to Experienced Defender, is that the players i'm using for this role have a PPM that prevents them from getting forward too often, so it is rather rare for me to see them surging into the box. They do position themselves higher up the pitch than the DPL-S, often unmarked infront of the space inbetween the opposition centerback and fullback. Modric has been great in this role actually, either shooting from distance when having the chance or laying it off for either the WB-S overlapping or for one of the IFs to dribble inside and take a shot. I see what you and Experienced Defender meant by playing two playmakers so close to each other in the sense that it may make them pass the ball to each other too much, and with both WB-S and IF's making forward runs (I've actually set my left IF-S to sit narrower instead of getting forward more often) they wouldn't have too many people to pass to as everybody would be making runs instead of trying to combine. Overall i'm very happy with the changes i've made although i'm still concerned about the performance of certain players. Isco in particular is being hard to get to perform consistently, which is odd as i thought he was the player with the best attributes+PPMs combination in the squad to play the way i want to.
  13. Sure, don't take it the wrong way, i'm willing to change any part of my tactic in order to improve it. I just wasn't too convinced that the problem was playing with 2 playmakers in the mid. I'll try a couple of games with a Mez (S) and IF (S) on the left side with the IF (S) instructed to sit narrower and close down more. Maybe i can see some good interplay between the two between the two playing more closely and also it may help with the ball circulation in the middle with having 2 centermids more spread out. I thought the same about the front 3 as the roles chosen made sense to me. Not too sure if the three up front have the PPM's needed to make more combinations in between them though (both Isco and Asensio have run with the ball often and Asensio has shoots from distance aswell). As i said before, i'm training a couple of offensive players two play more one-twos, maybe that could help? Yes i meant a Wing Back on attack duty, although keeping in mind that i'l try a Mezzala on his flank i think it might be a little bit too offensive. Will also take a look at the Rashidi video you suggested. Edit: I may not have described efectively what i'm looking to improve on this tactic but just to clarify, i'm looking for two things: (1) have my CM's be more influential in the attacking phase and playing more througballs for my IF's and my striker and (2) Make my front 3 make more combinations in between them to unlock compact defenses. These problems are more frequent when playing against more defensive sides.
  14. Thank you! Yes, i often have both playmakers playing way too close to each other which is bad for circulating the ball efectively. I would change the role of one of them but it just seems counter intuitive. I want both of them to be responsable of finding my strikers in advanced areas and having only one of them being a playmaker would prioritize the play through him. Plus for some reason playmakers always move way too much towards the ball, making my team very loopsided, regardless of using only one or two playmakers. For now it seems logical to me to keep playing with 2 paymakers as i want both of them to be focused with making my team tick. I will try asking my left IF to play more narrower. What you say makes sense though would that mean that an attacking wing back is more logical to use in that wing configuration? As i said before when i replied to lferreira. I'm hesitant to try a Mezzala with a IF as i find them both playing the same space. Specially with a team of this reputation, space will be scarse so i need to spread my players evenly on the whole pitch. What do you think of this? That is just to answer what you said. I still think that the main trouble i'm having is getting my three strikers to combine well and more often. They often have very low ratings if they don't score or assist and can often dissapear from the game. I'm trying to teach Asensio, Brahim and Ceballos (along with Vinicius when he unlearns to shoot from distance) to play one-twos (none of the players on the squad have this PPM btw) to see if it can spice up my attack but i'm not to sure if this will do the trick. I value your opinion a lot as i have seen your responses on other threads and you give some very logical feedback. If possible i would like, if you answer back on this thread, to take note of the second part of this reply regarding my three players up top not combining well enough. Cheers!
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