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Hilly1979

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Posts posted by Hilly1979

    Back-3 with ball, Back-4 without it. Can it work?

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Bluebird123 said:

    I get you're trying to help but please stop being so obtuse. 

     

    He wants a full back and sit narrow to the CBs while the other full back attacks down the flank. So the full back is the third CB, not the Halfback. It couldn't be any simpler than that.

    Just trying to give a way of achieving what the title of the post was asking, sorry for trying to help

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    Attacking with 5 players, how do you do this?

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Hilly1979

    1 hour ago, Fletty221019 said:

    @Experienced Defender you always say about different roles on the wings to stop being one dimensional, but would player traits not make them play each role differently?

    Yes traits, attributes and other  roles/duties in nearby positions.

    No player will play the role exactly the same so this one dimensional nonsense is quite frankly nonsense.  

    In saying that, 2 identical roles in a partnership is pointless like 2 advanced forwards.

     

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    Attacking with 5 players, how do you do this?

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, JEinchy said:

    4-4-2 is a tricky shape to achieve this with because it doesn't cover the zones as well as a 4-3-3 would, but the simplest way would probably be to have one of the central midfielders go forward as an attacking player. This way, you'd have, in theory two players in the wide spaces (the two wingers), two in the half spaces (the strikers) and one in the central space (the central midfielder).

    However, I would only do this against teams who are going to defend against you all day and have no interest in coming out of their deep block. Against teams who are willing to attack you, that lack of central midfield cover will hurt. In which case, inverting a winger and changing one of the IWBs to a conventional wing-back is probably your best bet. If you do that, I'd suggest changing the nearest CM to a defensive duty to cover the wing back, especially if you feel like you're getting overwhelmed down that flank.

    Alternatively, you could experiment with a 4-4-2 DM system, with Guendouzi as a Segundo Volante on Support or Attack, depending on the match state. I love the SV because his movements from deep can be very dangerous, while at the same time he'll retreat into a more defensive position. It's a very demanding role but I think Guendouzi is practically made for it. In this case, your five would be the two strikers, the two wingers, and the SV.

    As someone who often uses identical roles on both flanks and has been very successful in game, I don't know why this advice keeps getting thrown around like it's essential. 

    In the first place, it's less about the role and how the player interprets the role. In this case, variety is still achieved because Smith Rowe is a right-footed player on the left with good playmaking abilities while Nelson is a right-footed player on the right with good finishing and crossing. So although they're both W(s), they'll play the role differently according to their attributes and PPMs. 

    My thoughts exactly, in fm18 I managed to win premier league and champions league with spurs using identical wings

    1

    Attacking with 5 players, how do you do this?

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

    I never use asymmetric formations, so I cannot comment on that particular tactic. Instead I'll focus on the 442 (which btw is not an ideal system for what you want to achieve). 

    The first thing you should do - apart from the idea of attacking with 5 players - is get rid of one-dimensionality. Not only your flanks literally mirror each other, but you even play both strikers in the same role and duty. Some variety would really be more than welcome.

    Now, let's say you want your formation to transform into a 235 when attacking. How would I look to achieve that? For example:

    F9   AF

    IWsu    DLPsu   CMat    WMsu

    FBat    CDde   BPDde   IWBsu

    Now... I normally would not use an attack duty in the central midfield in a 442 (or any system without a DM), but in this particular case I did so only for the sake of having 5 players attacking the box in the final stage of attack from different areas. 

    However, here you also need to set up the instructions in a proper way, taking into account the mentality as a huge factor that automatically affects everything. 

    First, you use needlessly too many instructions, with many of them constituting different sorts of tactical overkill - both in attack and defense.

    I would therefore tone everything down to a degree. For example:

    Mentality - Positive

    In possession - shorter passing, play out of defence and work ball into box

    In transition - nothing (maybe counter occasionally, but not all the time)

    Out of possession - higher DL and standard LOE (probably also offside trap)

    Player instructions - split block involving both strikers and the CM on attack duty. 

     

    Not sure the right word is “should” get rid of one dimensionality on the wings, it may not be your preferred way but having identical wings can and does work.

    Newcomers could see that as a rule and should not be done which is not the case.

    0

    Help with Simple 4-4-2

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    On 15/01/2020 at 13:13, Experienced Defender said:

    So DLF is left, and AF is right. And CMde is MCL, and DLP is MCR. Okay: 

    DLFsu   AF

    Wat   CMde   DLPsu   Wat

    FBsu   CDde   CDde   FBsu

    GKde

    The first thing is - one-dimensional flanks, i.e. no variety in attacks from wide areas.

    Another potential issue regarding the flanks is more of a defensive nature - not only that you play both wide mids on attack duty, but also in a fairly attack-minded role (winger). This can leave your flanks overly exposed in defense, especially considering the high-risk team mentality (Positive). 

    Therefore, taking both observations concerning your flanks - one-dimensionality and defensive exposure - here is an example of how you can get more variety in attack and more stability in defense:

    DLFsu   AF

    IWsu   CMde   DLPsu   WMsu

    FBat   CDde   CDde     WBsu

    Okay, can you first explain the exact reasoning behind the "Hold shape" TI, especially in relation to higher (quicker) tempo?

    What style/type of football do you want to play?

    I’m not sure I agree with both wings the same being a problem.

    iv’e had plenty of success over the years with identical wings, never caused me a problem.

    1

    Difference between an Inside Forward and an Inverted Winger?

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

    You should include AP in the list.

     

    AML/R IF, IW and AP is all the same positional behavior on the pitch. They cut inside, they jump unto the box as an additional striker. The difference is how they focus on finishing.

     

    IF is a goal score. It's a Striker in a deeper position.

    IW creates assist and goal score a mix of IF and AP.

    AP create chances.

     

    AP can score goals and IF can create chances, it all depends on how the dice roll fall on the pitch, so depending on weather, rest of the team and the player it self, an AP can score more goals than an IF. So while the IF/IW/AP behavior is technically correct, you will not see the picked role perform PERFECTLY according to what we expect of the role.

     

    Look at the players attributes and see what role covers what you feel is the best combination of the attributes and pick that as role, it doesn't matter if the player is AP/S or IF/A as long as he has a high chance of getting good attribute dice rolls.

     

    Edit: It can have a big impact on the overall team tactic what role you pick, if you pick AP then the entire team might focus on passing the ball to that player, because of the build in pass choice attraction of the role, but the player it self is not going to behave radically different no matter the role choice.

    You say IF is a goal scorer but that depends on the duty, many guides on here indicate that IF on attack looks to score and IF on support looks to create.

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