Diegotimmy
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Posts posted by Diegotimmy
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On 13/09/2022 at 10:23, Neil Brock said:
Yeah wouldn't worry about this. Will be updated alongside everything else.
Whilst the changes at Burnley have been fairly dramatic, pretty sure in past versions there have been far more substantial changes we've had to reflect in game from version to version.
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As posted already here:
To use an example; you create a staff filter for a Physio. If you create this filter and have 'Realistic appointments - Youth Team' set, you then save the filter and it remembers that you have 'Realistic appointments - Youth Team' set. So next time you use the filter you will always have that preference. This means if you have a filter to find a Physio, you have to keep 3 different filters for the same role based on whether you want a First Team, Reserve or Youth Physio.
Same with player search. Say you create a filter it will always remember your 'Interested in' field. If you want to create a filter for a striker, it will remember that you had 'Interested in > Slightly Interested' from when you created the filter. But if you decide to look at players instead that are very interested you have to change the setting after each filter you import.
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On 13/09/2022 at 10:23, Neil Brock said:
Yeah wouldn't worry about this. Will be updated alongside everything else.
Whilst the changes at Burnley have been fairly dramatic, pretty sure in past versions there have been far more substantial changes we've had to reflect in game from version to version.
With respect Neil, I haven't really been too impressed with the research done for Burnley over the past few games and I've reported some of the problems in the past which have later been patched up. Basic things such as players not being natural in positions they start in each game were wrong, stuff you'd expect wouldn't at all be the case if the researcher had actually been watching games.
I'm specifically worried about Charlie Taylor and Connor Roberts not being Natural in a centre back position and Gudmundsson natural as an attacking midfielder.
On 14/09/2022 at 06:01, RHKC said:I was at the Burnley match last night and funnily enough thought about the team and tactics on FM23 on the way home.
I'm sure SI will get it sorted, they usually do. I think the hardest part will be trying to match Vincent Kompany's tactics in-game. Maybe put every player on free-roam
I've also thought about this. Particularly how the defence would work. On the right hand side Roberts operates as both a centre back and a right back, with Cullen often dropping deep to replace him as the 3rd man in the backline.
I thought about Cullen as a 'half back' and Roberts as a 'Wide Centre Back' but I don't think either role fully represent the style in real life.
The role of Taylor on the left side is more basic, as he doesn't venture as far forward.
Both wing backs push very high up the pitch and hug the touchline. I'm not sure really if even the 'Complete Wing Back' attack covers this. They even get to the byline at times.
Most news sites report the formation as 4-2-3-1 but really, it's a mix between 5-2-2-1, 4-2-2-2 and 3-2-4-1
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On 10/09/2022 at 17:17, FrazT said:
Changes requested for FM 23 are best reported in the current FM 22 thread that was linked above.
I posted in the championship thread but my post either wasn't approved or it was deleted.
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On 08/09/2022 at 12:31, XaW said:
The game should reflect real life, but if you find something wrong in the data of players for any clubs or nations, you can report it in the bug tracker under "database and research" here:
https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/850-database-and-research/
Thanks, but that is for 2022. I was trying to give a heads-up to the researcher in 2023. It doesn't seem like there's a way to directly speak to them, or report it.
I know stuff like this gets overlooked because I reported a bunch of errors in 2022 that were later corrected (players natural positions, stats etc) so I thought I'd give a warning ahead of time to stop this from happening again.
As far as I know the Burnley researcher is not a Burnley fan and shares the research with another team. There's a lot of changes and research that needs to be changed at the club this year.
On 08/09/2022 at 14:06, Draakon said:Style of play is in FM connected to the manager - his preferred formation and tactical tendencies.
So, we can expect to start FM 2023 as Burnley and the board having the constant expectation of defensive football and making the most from set pieces again?
I know style is linked to the manager and I know Dyche signed a very specific type of player, but things have changed a lot and this needs to be reflected in the boards expectations, finances etc.
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I couldn't figure out where to post this, so I guess I'll post it here.
Is the researcher for Burnley prepared for the changes that have happened this season? The board expectations, finances and players/roles have changed a lot this season.
The main changes transfers aside are down to positions and style of play.
Connor Robers and Charlie Taylor are now playing a wide centre back role and the team has moved to playing very possession-based football.
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In player or staff search when you import a saved filter the reputation filter resets every time.
Staff search > Filter for First Team, U21's and U18s.
Player search > not interested/slightly interested/very interested etc.
Can we have this bug fixed in FM23?
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Just as a laugh and to credit knap.
Almost everyone scored in this game:
It was even a reserve team I put out.
Admittably Besiktas had a sending off.
Tactic is the latest holyghostfire451...insane.
Thank you knap.
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I like the realism of the new mentoring system but I have to say its a regression in gameplay to the old system. I previously made a topic on here that I think was deleted, but the general consensus was mentoring between squads was not realistic. Players from u23s wouldn't spend time with senior players etc.
There's plenty of examples in real life with teams where u23 players can train with the senior team and in FM you can even assign younger players to senior team units. There's also lots of examples of u23s travelling with the senior team just for the experience, even if they aren't in the squad.
For certain players, this causes a yo-yo effect. Those who aren't quite first team ready, but also have potential. For example:
- Supposing you have a promising youngster with poor mental attributes like Determination. The choice currently if they need game time is to either loan them out, or promote them to the first team. Promote to the first team and they basically sit in your senior squad window and never get picked, but attributes can increase through being mentored by senior players with influence.
- The other choice is to loan players out, which in the case of players with good determination can work quite well, but not in all cases.
- Choice 3 is to leave them in the u23 squad, this choice is the worst when it comes to development. Mentoring just does not work from one young player to another because no player in the youth setup has a significant impact. If you try to set up mentoring, you have groups full of players all with light or average impact on everyone, with no team leaders to inspire other players.
I understand the move to the new system but really feel like something needs to be done to improve the control of development, since the change of one-to-one mentoring there's a significant lack of control developing these yo yo players.
It's not fun having to full my senior squad with youth players just so they see good development...and having to manage when and when not they are available for the u23 team.
A simple proposition would be to allow u23 players that are added to the first team training unit to also be added to first team mentoring. This would allow mentoring to work with the yo yo players, without having to add all the youth players to the first team squad.
or
Abandon the possibility of players being mentored at all, and move the mental development improvement changes to training in units only for youngsters.
One youngster is not going to improve mentally by being mentored by another youngster, it just doesn't make sense and it doesn't work in the game!
I agree with the previous topic here:
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Been trying to use
FM20.2NorthernSoulMRHKnap5-3-2P101CC
and FM20.2WULF4132PFDMIWBSPKnapP112ALLCUPSNOLOSSFM20.2P102ECCC
In 20.2 but they have been nothing short of awful for me. I guess they are better for top than sub.
Going to try Tequila and Sympathy 442 now.
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@Peljam my bad, I think I was mixing up the wing play and park the bus presets. Between my two failed seasons I actually had better luck starting with wing play and tweaking it from there. I also has significantly better results using a DLF and AF than I did a TM/PF.
Part of the issue with the match engine and going hoofball is the reliance on your target man. If you try to emulate that kind of hoofball in real life and every ball in the game is practically hoofed at one guy, if that one guy doesn't best others in the league for aerial attributes, he will fail.
Aside for this though, the "mentality" part of the tactic engine seems rather unrealistic to me. It seems instead to adjust how much players to attack, it only adjusts how players take risks.
Yes when you attack more you naturally take more risks, but that is not how hoofball works. It should be a tactical approach with defense first, no risks.
In the match engine, at least to me it seems like the only way you can play safe successfully is by having short passing, possession based football. That works well, even on defensive mentality.
With direct passing you have to go attacking, and you can't do well this way if you are lower than average squad because your form and morale will be destroyed by big teams.
The "take more risks/take less risk" instruction to me just seems like an extension to mentality, yet if you try a balanced or defensive approach, you can't find success, even with this extra control.
The other thing I noticed was the auto flexibility change. To get the team to defend as a unit you have to be able to use a very fluid approach, which means your players almost exclusively need basic and support roles...without that strikers do not come back and defend the lines, which is stupid because having a pressing forward on defend, or other defensive roles should have the same effect in a structured formation.
Some big changes again in 20.2 to the match engine and the game has just got even harder. I'm close to quitting the game right now as I'm just finding it far, far too difficult.
I agree with the defensive winger thing, they are almost more attacking than wingers are on support.
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On 27/11/2019 at 16:21, Peljam said:
So this is my current Hoof. I've moved on a bit from the one I had in the Dictate the Game article, and to be honest it is pretty similar to the tactic I used in FM19 (I've got the same name for the style!). Which is to be expected as the same principles apply.
I'm getting a lot of chances in the box now. Not excessive amounts but I'm getting very little in the way of shots outside the box, or from tight angles. I like to work out my xG and it has increased by a decent amount since swapping to this - by about .5 which on its own doesn't sound huge but it's moved me to about 2xG a game now which is a healthy amount for a minnow with a £500pw budget.
EDIT: I should add this tires players out. I've had to change the rest settings in training. The first two condition ratings (60-70 I think) are now no training as we can't kick and rush, and press, and survive.
That's pretty much the same as the stock park the bus preset, with a few tweaks.
I've tried a second season now with Burnley, trying the same thing. Never works, always get trounced.
I find it frustrating and have accepted another year of FM not being able to make my own tactic. It may work in the lower leagues but doesn't in the premier league. I think if you set up a team like in real life, they should at least perform similarly, whats the point of the presets if none of them even work?
I feel the match engine favors too much short passing. Teams that play with that tactic by default always over-perform (Norwich always top half of the premier league each 2019-20 season) yet playing direct you suffer.
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Each year I try to do this and fail and end up reverting back to using knaps tactics.
I play with Burnley, which should be the perfect team to pull this kind of tactic off, but can never do so.
The statistics in the game just turn against you if you play direct passing, at least in the premier league.
I first tried to set up my own tactic, kept things basic with a 4-4-2, deep line and engagement, crosses from deep, TM Suport and PF Attack. Simple wingers on support and fullbacks support. standard centre backs, A BBM and DPL in CM position, team mentality defensive. No dice, bottom of the league, by some way.
Then I decided to change some roles based on things I've read in this thread, went to full back defend instead, NCB instead of CB and a DLP and BWM in the centre, standard wingers still but upped the mentality to attacking. Still no dice.
If anything, I'd say the more conservative roles make your team play worse.
I have (once again) given up and am using one of knaps 442's and win the next game easily, even when my players aren't even familiar with any part of the tactic...
I think what is mentioned in the other thread is true, the game favours attacking football by far and whilst you may be able to play more direct in the lower leagues, the gap between bottom Premier League teams and top premier league sides is too big. Its stupid and unrealistic. Not everyone wants to play attacking, pretty short passing football.
I want to recreate the shithouse tactics that work so well for Burnley and others in real life.
There's something wrong with the game I think...
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The game is definitely more testing for underdogs. Before you could grind out unrealistic wins with 4-1-3-1 but now you still get trounced by good opposition.
On the other hand, these tactics work better against weaker opposition.
But there are still stupid mistakes in the game, Martinez for Liverpool has 51 goals to his name this year and the season hasn't even finished yet..
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Heres my take using the latest match engine (you need to update to public beta).
Knaps tactics before the update were working worse, tried and tested ones in FM19 failed.
In the public beta (and introduction to ME2016) have fixed these issues mostly and his tactics are solid again.
Lesson to be learnt here is don't rely on tactics until the game is released, I don't think many tweaks will have to be made to the ME by Knap (or anyone for that matter) this year.
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When you load a preset into staff or player search, you can no longer filter interested players by squad interest.
For example:
Load a saved profile using the cog wheel (bottom left) to sign a coach in the staff search section.
But you want the coach for your u23s.
Hit the include/exclude button (bottom right) and you can't filter by interest.
You can resolve it by hitting ok and re-opening the search window again. But its a pain having to do this.
This bug has been in the game for sooo long. Can it be fixed in 20?
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@knap firstly, thanks a lot for your work on these tactics. Each revision of FM I start by trying to create my own tactics and fail. I always use your tactics and start to enjoy the game again!
If I can make one suggestion, it would be this:
Do you think you could develop a clearer naming scheme for the tactics? There are so many revisions its very confusing and hard to find the correct version. Especially when sometimes you load them in the game and they have a different name from the file.
I like the fact some tactics have a name such as Pilgrimage, but its confusing to have different formations with the same naming scheme.
Just some feedback to take or leave, I think your work on these tactics is great and I really appreciate it.
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Big changes at Burnley
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
In the recent v23.3.0 I see a lot of changes to the Burnley squad. It's far more realistic now than it was on release, thank you. The expectations have also been fixed.
It's still a struggle to try and replicate Kompany's tactics in the game, but that's another matter.
Cullen's roll in particular is hard to replicate.