[Role/Duty Stars not showing correctly]

@Lekan Odushola thank you. Certainly not a game breaker. If it helps any, when I had a  break from international games the stars started to show correctly in my club side, but then reverted when international games started again.

[Role/Duty Stars not showing correctly]

@Francis Mooney Thanks, done under "GeorgiaTrinic SI.fm"

[Role/Duty Stars not showing correctly]

When I first go into a player's profile I'm seeing this sort of assessment against roles/duties:

However as soon as I select a role in the drop down they update to what I feel are the more accurate assessments:

Is this linked to managing a national team at the same time?

[dafuge's FM20 challenge]

After falling out of love with FM for a bit, and putting off buying FM20 for a good while, I've been sucked back in. First off I went for my usual Preston save, but meh, it's the same old. So finally thought I'd give this a go.

Never tried LLM, and it was a bit of a learning curve!

True to the spirit of the challenge I didn't for a 2 year sim lucky roll to get my actual hometown (Bedford) promoted, instead opting for the nearest team:

 

Season 1 Review 

Final Table/Squad/Finances/Manager Attributes/Facilities/Competitions

 

Summary 

I had a bit of panicked start, first realising that I had no idea what constituted a good player at this level, but also realising probably none of my starting squad was really going to cut the mustard. Then also the fun of realising no Asst meant I can't filter interested only. A hurried Asst hire later I started the mass trial invite, only to get told my board would limit me to 30 at a time. This kinda set the tone for the season where I was constantly churning players, panic signing a few duds that I couldn't shift but also managing to move some on for small amounts and replace with upgrades. I'm not sure if it is in the spirit of the challenge but I did use loans to bolster the squad too on the cheap.

Friendlies I tried to set up as a mix of revenue generation and morale boosting, which didn't always work out, including a humbling loss to Holmer Green, but thankfully my bog standard solid 4-4-2 was able to be tight enough at the back to get us off to a solid enough start in the league:

As the squad bedded in and I get a bit more cohesion I switched up to a more attacking 4-2-4, which scored more, but was also capable of having Keegan-esque moments as games such as losing 3-4 or the classic against 5-4 win Spennymoor where they equalised in the 92nd minute and I scored the winner in the 96th. I got very lucky in the cups, especially the FA cup with some lucky draws, the highest team I faced until the 4th round was Dag & Redbridge, before I ran into Everton (Away!) and got smashed 6-0. The cup runs, combined with some postponements left me sat 4th with 4 games in hand on leaders Hereford, but I got a bit nervy as I lost 2 on the bounce after the Everton game and feared the squad might be bottling it:

However, with some very nice money in the bank, the board agreed to releasing more funds and gave me a huge 120K transfer budget, which I converted into wages and used to upgrade some key bits of the squad, including finally getting my big man up top to realise my vision of a big/little partnership. From then on I felt the players were good enough to take anyone on in the division and they went on a pretty solid run, with on 1 draw and 2 losses for the rest of the season. I had though that my 2nd to last game with Hereford would of been the title decider, but thankfully I'd wrapped the league up by then. The season did finish on a slightly sour note in losing the FA Trophy final, mostly disappointing as the team just didn't show up at all.

Players

End of Season Awards

Having churned through a whopping 39 players coming in the squad changed multiple times over the season, buoyed by the cup run I was able to attract and afford a better class of player towards the end of the season, thankfully meaning they would also be signed up for next season. However a few standouts for me:

Enock Asante - Swooped in after his release from Spurs, and didn't he just reward my faith.  Top scorer with 29 goals in 54 apps, and that was him having to play a pseudo target man role for me until I finally got a true big man. Not signed through to next season, and wants a decent wedge to stay. I'm not sure he will cut it at a slightly higher level, and I'm trying to follow the advice of there is no room for sentimentality in LLM.

Jason Oswell  - My big man, came in and gave the team a turbo boost down the back 9 scoring 18 in 22 in the league. Interestingly not one who has fallen down the leagues, but has plied his trade at this level for his entire career, a journeyman donkey! Also not signed for next season, and possibly I might have to let him walk. 

Tyler Hamilton - Breaking one of the LLM tenants, one I signed with half an eye on the future. Missed out on him originally as I couldn't afford the wages, and he went to Kingstonian. But with some room granted by improved finance and him being on a non-contract basis I was able to pick him up, and get him signed through to 2022. Probably my replacement for Asante, scored at a decent rate in his limited time at the club. 

Jamie Taylor - One of 3 loanees who were stalwarts of the 1st XI. Sat in the middle and pulled the strings for me as a DLP. Sadly under contract at Bristol City through to 2022 and they wanted 500K for him so will not be returning. 

Noor Husin - Another later signing, plucked from Dartford and came in to do a great job alongside Taylor as my BBM. He even manged to get a cap for Afghanistan  during his time with us. Signed through to 2022 and expected to be a key starter again. 

 Jay Mingi - Lastly, a player I actually offloaded. My first BBM, and a great player.... when available! The 20 aggression saw him pick up 16 yellows and 3 reds in 28 games for me. Too much of a liability so moved on, but it was tough choice as I think he had potential to be good enough for league football. 

Next Season

With only 7 players signed through to 2022, I'm unsure how to proceed with resigning players. Though a lot have performed well I'm not sure they are good enough to bring up with me. I may well hold off and see what I can pick up for free, and see what loans are available too. Although I do have a transfer budget, I think it's best served using as wages. Aim has to be first and foremost staying up.

Slightly confused my board has chosen to expand the stadium from just shy of 3,000 to nearly 3,000 as my average gate was below 500. Seems a waste of money to me. They won't budge either on upgrading any other facilities which is frustrating. 

 

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

This is starting to drive me somewhat mad, in all my tinkering (and messing around with 4-1-4-1 as alternate) I still can't seem to get the central striker to have any consistent impact on the game. Worse is I seem to have stopped the wide players scoring as well though I'm still scraping results out off the back of a solid defence (which I would expect to be far leakier TBH). 

Now repeatedly playing the same game as a lab in a trial and error fashion. 

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

23 hours ago, Danielkirby said:

I play a 4231 and my striker is prolific every season.... I’ve attached screenshots of my tactic and the striker:

my striker also doesn’t take my penalties, for some reason he’s useless at them.

i get a lot of assists from my wb(a) and my right winger but lots of variations in types of goals scored too.

 

 

 

Do you have many/any PIs set up? What's the thinking behind the AP on the left vs say a IF/IW?

[FM20 Hidden Gems]

Apologies if mentioned already but Adam Hlozek has been good enough to start for me in the Championship and seems to have potential beyond. Not sure if random stats. Picked up for 100k!

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I would (probably) play him as a winger, but would not play the fullback behind him as a FB on attack. What roles and duties I would specifically use depends on the tactic as a whole (i.e. the style of football I want to implement). Of course, taking into account strengths and weaknesses of my team. 

 

No. Take a look at my comment just above this one. 

 

Thank you for guidance, it's much appreciated, back after a FM hiatus so having re-educate myself!

 

The FB/W combo came out of reading this guide (https://www.passion4fm.com/football-manager-player-role-combinations-duty-pairs/#width) which I perhaps have misunderstood. 

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

Ha I changed things to this:

Next match (against fellow unbeaten Brentford):

 

Couldn't make it up really! To be fair his 3 goals were from set pieces (1 Corner, 1 Free Kick, 1 Pen) so maybe a bit too early to say things are better. 

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

3 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

And yes, you have (the overkill of) 2 playmakers while at the same time playing both CBs as BPDs. Which is pretty contradictory.

The dangers of thinking best players + best roles = best tactic!

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

Thank you for the reply and suggestions. 

What role would you suggest for the AMR if I'm stuck a bit with right footers? Hlozek has oddly played well and is my top scorer so far. 

When you say simple(r) roles for the striker, would that include a DLF? I've not wanted to use an advanced forward or poacher as I thought it would leave them isolated up top with no space in behind. 

[Issues with Striker in 4-2-3-1]

Apologies that this is similar to a few other posts, but I've read those and don't think my setup has the same root issues. I've been playing a 4-3-2-1 that is working well, very good defensively (yet to concede)  as a result of stifling possession, but doesn't really get a contribution from the striker. He will have plenty of shots, plenty on target, but no real CCC. Most goals are coming from wide players meeting crosses at the back post, mixed with set pieces and the occasional long ranger from the CMs. Tactic is currently:

Parrott is set to CF as he fitted the role well, but I have experimented with DLF (A) as well to no real change. Other things I've considered changing:

Moving away from a W(S) in the AMR as no player has better than 10 for crossing. However I lack a left footer to play inside out. I've also thought about changing this to a Raumdeuter. I'd also switch up the FB to WB if I went with a role that player inside more.

Removing Works into Box/Play Through the Middle 

Changing the DLP to a BWM, or the AP to an AM (S) as I'm not sure if 2 play makers is a good plan. Both play well though.

[Developing my 4-4-2]

I don't want to take this great topic off on a tangent too much SteelCityColt but you have a massive space behind your W-S and TQ, I would consider moving your W-S from AMR to MR. You can play that exact same role+duty from the deeper position which should occupy that space better and potential create more space for your TQ behind there FB without the Winger getting in the way. In fact I think it might help your transition from defence as the winger starting deeper should be a easy pass for your DC/DMC/FB to make before he carries it forward and hopefully does some nice link up play with your TQ.

My apologies for herne79 for cutting in on his topic. Thank you for the tip!

[Developing my 4-4-2]

Interesting set up.

I'd focus on the DMC at first, see if he is getting pulled out of position - you've already identified that though .

You can always load up a dummy save on FM Touch to test things out as well. On FMT, any tactic you create is automatically fully fluid straight away, even if you change something.

Thanks for the tip, I've not dipped into FM Touch yet.

It's 4 days into having the game, I'm sleeping 4 hours a night and I've restarted twice and not got past preseason. I'm really loving the tactics side changes.

[Developing my 4-4-2]

I've had this on the drawing board, but as one of my MCs can't really play DMC I wasn't happy with it. I ended up at one point with a DMC (DM Def), MC (either DLP/S or BBM/s) and an AMC (AM/S) which I didn't try out as it just looked wrong on paper. Might give it a whirl. I've not yet really started my game so I've been playing over the same few matches for some trial and error of concepts.

So after doing some reading of this topic and Cleon's AOP post and drawing out the above I ended up with:

TIs I'm thinking of setting up with as Control/Structured, Retain Possession, Higher Closing Down.

I'm hoping that it it will play like a fairly aggressive 4-4-2, but I think it's a bit too attack weighted. Thought process is usual back 4 but with the FBs overlapping/supporting the wide men. DMC to break up play from the halfway line backwards and to provide cover for a FB bombing forward. The BBM to act as the transition between defense and attack.

Possible tweaks depending on how we go:

FBS to WB (S)

DM (S) to DM (D)

Change the BBM to a DLP (S) to make him sit a bit more and help out the DMC in the middle of the park.

T to an AMC, I'm trying to ape your setup to have 2 strikers but I'm concerned it will leave me too exposed.

Possibly if I've taken off the FB attacking roles change the F9 into an Attacking forward.

I'll let you know how badly it goes

[Developing my 4-4-2]

Yep also a good solution. I prefered to go with a more Structured shape as I didn't want the extra creativity affecting my chosen player roles too much. If Very Fluid works for you then great .

Stick at it, I'm sure you'll get there.

If you are looking at a 4-2-3-1, moving the midfield back a line can be an option if you are struggling. So your 2 x MC become 2 x DM, your AML/R move to ML/MR, and the AMC goes to MC. You could even use a 4-5-1 and adjust roles to create the 4231 shape.

Alternatively, if you really want to stick with AML/R + AMC, giving both MCs a defend duty can help.

I've had this on the drawing board, but as one of my MCs can't really play DMC I wasn't happy with it. I ended up at one point with a DMC (DM Def), MC (either DLP/S or BBM/s) and an AMC (AM/S) which I didn't try out as it just looked wrong on paper. Might give it a whirl. I've not yet really started my game so I've been playing over the same few matches for some trial and error of concepts.

[Developing my 4-4-2]

I still can't quite get it playing how I want, however, from reading this and Cleon's posts it really does seem the tactical/ME side of things has come on a lot since I last played and there isn't really any more plug and play insta success tactics. More you have to understand the principles and then apply them to get a system playing how you want .

Right now toying between a 4-2-3-1 Wide/4-3-2-1 DM Wide and the 4-4-2.

I can't say enough how I appreciate posts such as yours that go into depth as it's really helping understanding why things work/don't work.

[Developing my 4-4-2]

1) Remember, I've done a cheeky shortcut here and created my own team with my ideal player for each position installed, rather than going through the long term process of building a team over a few seasons (which I am doing at Espanyol). When looking at your players, you'd need to consider if they are suited to the role or not and adapt accordingly. I also haven't mentioned much about PPMs which can be important.

2) If you are playing with the Target Man role, your team are basically going to lump the ball to him. That won't do much to help your possession figures. I didn't set out to create a "possession" tactic - I only ever wanted the "majority" of possession to help my team play. The fact I am averaging over 60% possession is to me almost accidental and something I will probably look to address in the future.

3) Your main weakness in a 442 is central midfield (from both a defensive and an attacking point of view), so I went to great lengths to try to mitigate that.

In defense you need a sound screen for your centre backs - I use a combination of player roles and tactical settings to help achieve this. I'm not sure an Advanced Playmaker would fit into that.

In attack, a runner from midfield is important to support possession and provide an attacking threat. With an AP, he'll be more of a ball magnet (kinda like your Target Man), so he'll be receiving the ball early and then thinking "who am I going to pass to - ah yeh of course, silly me, the Target Man".

4) I found that a fullback (support) behind an attacking wide midfielder didn't offer as much support to him as I wanted, and changed to a wingback (support). Your attacking WM will eventually run into a cul-de-sac, so without a nearby supporting fullback to provide an outball, he'll either get tackled or play a speculative risky pass or cross. Remember, I'm always looking to make sure my players have passing options. If they don't, they'll be tackled or do something daft. Review some matches you have already played and see if you notice something similar. Also remember, your WMs are probably just looking to pass to your target man or AP.

5) My BWM frequently gets the lowest rating on my team, but it still isn't a bad rating by any stretch. I think it's just how the game calculates ratings. So long as he is actually doing what you want him to do, that's the important part.

6) I tend to ignore what the game tells me is a suitable role for someone. If they have the right attributes, I'll play them. The game doesn't rate Di Maria very highly as a WM compared to the winger role, but he nails it. Similarly, Tevez (for example) gets I think 1.5 stars as a Trequartista in the AMC position, and his backup doesn't have any gold star rating at all, just 5 silver ones and is only "competent" in the AMC position. Using Wingers may be better for you, they may not. I explained above why I chose not to use that role as it didn't fit my system - perhaps they would fit into yours, you'd need to experiment.

Hope that helps.

Thank you for your help, although much more time consuming I'm glad I've taken the time to watch games on comprehensive highlights (do you watch full games?), as you've said it really does become common sense to see what's going wrong.

My LM should be able to play the Di Maria role well, he's got the attributes and is both footed, the only thing he doesn't have is any PPMs. If I push him up into an AML and play him as an IF then he plays exactly how I'd expect. Not a major problem as he's still getting good ratings and making a contribution. I might just make him into an out and out winger.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion about the TM, I thought it would be as much, shame as he's dropping into the area of the pitch you were having issues getting the DLF to move into. I'll experiment with other roles, I've got 3 strikers to rotate and one I've used as a DF which seemed promising.

I too aren't looking for an out and out possession tactic, but when you're playing a much lower standard of opposition I would have expected to be more dominant, I took it as a warning sign something wasn't quite right. That's when I realised how much I was lumping it long.

I'll try out using WBs instead of FBs, I agree that there seems to be too large a gap between them and the WM in attacking positions.

Thanks again!

[Developing my 4-4-2]

There is no escape.

One of us, one of us, one of us .

As I sit here at work off the back of 4 hours sleep I realise I have fallen off the wagon again...

I've been trying to replicate some of your ideas as they resonate with my own as to how I want to play but without much success. True I've only played 2 preseason games against inferior opposition but as you've made clear the success of any tactic comes from the players individually doing as you'd expect and so far I've had a couple of issues.

Apologies for lack of screen shots (I can add later) but I tweaked the roles slightly to suit my own team's attributes so that may well be root cause of my problems. Namely both my FBs are set to Support as I have two wide men (WMs set to Att) who are both good pacey dribblers and neither FB is amazing getting forward but are solid defenders. I also have a good target man so I'm using him as my deep lying forward in a support role. Centrally I've got the BWM combined with a AP set to Support. I've tried to replicate your Di Maria set up by telling my left WM to cross less and dribble more as he's got the attributes to make as good an IF as WM.

Observations so far:

1) Team average positions are as expected and the "shape" looks right during matches. The target man plays deeper than the other forward and the AP plays in advance of the BWM giving a nice staggered spine down the middle.

2) After 2 games my WM left has 0 dribbles. Watching him play, he seems to look play short balls inside rather than take his man on.

3) My BWM constantly gets the lowest rating of the team, I'm not sure if this is a product of the teams I'm playing going for the direct approach and playing long ball over his head. Positionally he seems to be in the right spots but doesn't have much affect on play.

4) I didn't initially have the shorter passing shout on and I was only getting ~50% possession, against weak opposition it's a very worrying sign. I dropped to shorter passing which seemed to slightly improve things. Even with retain possession on it seems my team likes to hoof it. I wonder if that's down to playing a target man?

I'm considering switching up my WMs to wingers as they are both poorly rated as WMs (I guess due to low tackling?), I was curious as to how highly Di Maria rated as a WM vs Winger?

[Developing my 4-4-2]

After a 2 year hiatus from the game I've been sucked back in after being bought it for Christmas, it's certainly a much deeper game. I just wanted to praise you on the depth you've gone to in this topic. I'm still very much stuck in the mud with wanting to play 2 strikers and wide men so 4-4-2 seem to be the only viable option, this topic is going to be my bible for a bit I feel.

Keep up the good work!