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TehGoatLord
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Posts posted by TehGoatLord
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This is the kind of transition that happens most of the time. See how the opponent has four players guarding the center? This always peters out.
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Honestly, I'd kill to be able to score 30+ goals like this in a season.
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23 minutes ago, Rashidi said:
I have done a video on the IFB(D) and can link it if you need.
I have been religiously watching every single video of yours since 2019. In fact, I have followed your posts more or less for roughly a decade. Absolutely floored by that match engine you have inside your head. Real inspiration.
I have tried Wan Bissaka in the IFB position. My first save (this is the 5th one) had a 4-3-3 DM Wide with a 3-2 build up shape. The biggest issue I faced was that the wide players would run into traffic, thus long shots. The right side would also struggle to find support. Usually the IFB would be a bit too on the inside but I need to test more before I ask for any further help.
During an attacking transition, when my 3-2 shape passes the ball forward, I usually face a settled defence. Although I have not tried before with the tempo maxed out.Honestly, after the positional play update, you need to do a new video on transitions! I know you have one on FM18 iirc. But I think people like me would benefit a lot from how tempo affects transitions and especially what to look for during attacking transitions. For example, creating space in between the lines for support duties to find the final pass.
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Here are a few examples. The AM-a is integral in moving the opposition defence around. The SV also stretches one side so the DLP-d has enough space to distribute the ball up ahead.
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23 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:
I know you don't want to, but changing to a narrow shape can help
Like 3atb or team width?
23 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:With a 4-2-3-1 DM, I find in FM that play will naturally go down the wings with the wide attackers and wingbacks
I find it super difficult to create that pocket of space between the wingback and the opposition defence for the Inside Forwards to either 1-2 into space or receive a pass from the midfielder (AMC-s, SV-s) to get a shot on goal. Usually the wingback crosses or the ball gets circulated to one of the midfielders lurking outside who takes a long shot at goal.
I think I solved the problem but I don't know how... Won 5/5 of the first PL games. I am getting those transitions high up. The team is also passing around quite snappily and finding each other well. Got quite a few goals from well-placed passes and through balls. The crossing is also there. All in all, it feels very balanced aside from my team getting gassed out after the 60th minute. I try to keep my high pressing under 50 mins.
Main Tactic
For the second tactic, I adapted from fluid counter attacking preset.
One of the things I noticed was that the AMC does not perform well if set on support duty. They'll stay marked out inside the hole against 4-3-3s and 4-2-3-1 DMs. However, setting the duty to Attack means that the channels get exploited a lot and the marking midfielders are moved away from the position. Even though I have an IW-a (still experimenting to see if an IF-a works better) and a PF-a, the AM-a is not overkill in any way. Positional play and high OTB means Bruno/Mount can always find the space not taken by the IF-a and PF-a.
If it wasn't for the gegenpress preset, I would have never figured out that an AM-a will pair well with such attacking duties ahead of him.
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How is their morale when the game starts?
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I started a new game and set up the tactics as follows. Adjusted the default Gegenpress tactic since the fluid counter attack felt a bit too passive for the kind of club United is.
Second tactic is going to be the midblock one for away fixtures and during parts of the match I am not doing well
Going to finish pre-season and play til January before I come back with the screenshots.
2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:I am just wondering about the shadow striker, how did you arrive at this particular role?
I was lacking an unpredictable presence inside the box. The CF-a would be marked out, the IF-s or IF-a would be running at the wall and rarely find the channel to run onto a through ball for a shot. The SS-a allowed another body to challenge for the cross.
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2 hours ago, Andrew Marines said:
It's a bit risky to suggest something without any in-game screenshots/videos to see the issues...
I don't want to try out a new tactic and have my season go off course but I'll save scum and see if I can get a screenshot.
2 hours ago, Andrew Marines said:Your players are positioning themselves in a good way right from the start of the action?
It's kinda tough. I always find the opposition DM/CMs in position during transitions.
2 hours ago, Andrew Marines said:You sure the 4231 is the easiest tactic to use in this situation?
The 4-3-3 DM Wide is even more atrocious when it comes to moving the ball forward to my striker who's in between a sea of opposition defenders.
I tried the CF-s and IF-a and IW-a combo but I rarely create chances for my wide forwards to do damage.
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I mostly only manage Manchester United on FM as a form of therapy from the team in real life. I am in my first season after a squad overhaul with Varane (83m) and Casemiro (40m) sold.
During the first half of the season, I have been pretty much only stretching the play out wide and creating low crossing situations for my strikers or SS-a.
While the tactic has been doing its job so far:
I feel that it's getting tougher and tougher to score with teams happy to sit back.
I want to play a quick game where the team creates through ball opportunities from transitions.
Whenever I try to attempt something similar, the players never find any space between the lines. The team transitions back to their settled defence and my players keep getting pushed wide. I tried using Rashford initially as AF-a ahead of Bruno as the AP-s but both of them would be marked out of the game after a transition.
On the right wing, the IW-s or W-a would keep running into traffic, being pushed into the corner flag. Or they will receive the ball out wide near the halfway line, attempt a pass or dribble then lose the ball. Ideally, I would like my right wing to create through balls from out wide for the AF Hojland or Rashford to run onto, then either take a shot or cross towards the IF-s on the left side.
The kind of style I am aiming for are the Jose Mourinho tactics at Chelsea where he would use a midblock 4-2-3-1 to devastating effect.
Rashford with his workrate of 10 isn't exactly cut out for pressing up high either but this somehow just works.
Here is my current tactic and squad. Sometimes the DM-s is set to SV-s against teams that use 5atb or sit back and park the bus.
The DLP was RPM before but I found him too high up. The 2-2-6 attacking shape is basically a battering ram that helps build out from the back against high pressing opponents really well. But it's all so boring and crowded low crosses in the box feels too attritional.
What kind of tactic or changes would you go for based on the above?
++ Garnacho, Eriksen and Amrabat.
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As a big team, let's say Man Utd after winning the title a season or two, can you play a direct passing game?
I understand that when teams sit back and defend for a draw, you are supposed to play on a lower tempo with a formation that exploits the wings to stretch the play.I was thinking of something like a DLP in a 4-2-3-1 DM wide pinging balls to an IW-a, AF-a and WB-a who then look towards creating something in the final third.
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On 20/06/2023 at 05:06, Halbraum said:
I'd prefer a support duty striker/AMC if i wanted the IFat as my main threat, especially against teams that sit deep.
Actually i don't see this as an issue. If opponents are unaffected by him, your players can easily overload them deep thus create space eventually. Maybe WBiB hinders the pattern you want to see?
So should I drop the passing length and tempo to keep the ball around in the overloaded zone until the DMs and CBs get engaged and drawn out? Usually even players like Eriksen and Sancho get tackled into oblivion against a packed 10 man defense.
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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:
Two things stand out for me:
1) Work Ball into Box - this will add even more patience to your game and can potentially void attacks, this is a TI I'll use for killing off games or if I'm going for ultra possession not one I'll use as a staple
I had to use this because the CMs kept taking potshots when the attacking transition would fail, also the crosses that would be hit at the legs of the defenders.
I will try your suggestions and see what works. For now, this has stopped the goals leaking and it's a tactic that works but I want Rashford to score 25+ goals from the IF-A position. It's kind of like a tactical challenge for me. Btw, your 4-3-3 thread was the inspiration for this.
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The biggest problem I keep facing is that one of my central midfielders will lob the field all the way to the corner and then Rashford is with the ball with no support. That's why I lowered the tempo down.
If I put Jonas Wind on a supporting striker duty, he will drop really deep next to the central midfielders while the opponent backline sits back, unaffected by Wind dropping down to midfield.The key movement I want is for there to be an overload on the right side, stretching the play with Denzel Dumfries (he's not in the screenshot), who can then pass it back to Antony -> Rice for a quick side change for Rashford to be 1v1 with the opposite fullback or him finding the channel between the RB and RCB.
I have really struggled to create space up top. My IW on the right has been a disastershow with both Antony and Sancho always receiving the ball but being unable to get past their marker.
For teams that press up high, I want quick transitions to my agile forwards.
For teams that sit back, I want to overload the right and then free up the left for Rashford and Gaya to wreak havoc.
I assume I am doing pretty much everything wrong and have lost the tactical identity of the first two seasons when I would pass the opposition to death. In the third season, everyone is pressing up high and I have no idea how to readjust to get the best out of my players.
How would you approach this?
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What role and setup would I need to make one of the fullbacks act as if a wide centreback when I am in possession? Iirc, even an FB-D sometimes overlaps.
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The formation has been a lot of fun ever since I started using it!
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Oooh will love to try this on my United save. I have the pace to burn and the ball carriers to do it.
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Is it a good idea to send my youngsters out on loan to clubs that don't have staff (the leagues aren't loaded) but have good enough training facilities? Or will their attributes not develop enough compared to one with staff.
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I've actually noticed this on FM20 as well.
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It sounds like you're having repeated failed attacking transitions where all your players are bunched up in the opposition's half with everyone marked but gotta see your tactics to confirm it
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I just started a save with a 4-4-2 feeling a bit sheepish for setting it up so direct with a top tier team. Will be looking forward to how you incorporate pressing into the shape without sacrificing defensive solidity. Can't wait!!
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13 hours ago, ozilthegunner said:
To add to my previous comment - if you want fast transitions, then you need multiple players making runs into space. Just one player isn't necessarily enough, since he can be crowded out. That is why (I think) others have been recommending more attacking mentalities (or at least one reason).
I said I have the IF on attack but the other 2 forwards on support, however my CF seems to still push the line (so is there for transitions) and my most common right winger has 'tries to beat the offside trap' PPM. So, I think given all that, I effectively have 3 attack duties without labeling them.
But, if you want to do something similar without the PIs, then I think I recall others saying that you can play an Inverted Winter and striker both on attack duties (whereas the inside forward and striker both on attack supposedly creates issues). I have not really tried this myself, but that may be an option for you - change the IF to an IW, put on attack, but keep the striker on attack as well
I have at best Lautaro to play the support striker role but I don't know how good he will be as a CF since it takes some aerial prowess to play. Doesn't hurt to try, I guess.
This is what I lucked out on trying to tinker around with the settings. My primary play being a wide ball to Chiesa who either dribbles and crosses or passes to the mez who either shoots or crosses. Shooting more often than not so I might actually see if a Carrilero is a better option out there. The striker stays focused on the right channel which creates the overload for Chiesa to move into. Once the defense shifts to the right, Rashford is 1v1 at the far post. This has become my bread and butter the last 4 matches. However, I am struggling a bit with through balls behind my defense so I might drop the line.
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13 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:
... or go banzai ;-)
That's exactly why I made this thread. I need to learn how to go banzai without running into a wall repeatedly.
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However, I am outnumbered on the transitions almost always
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I shifted to an attacking mentality with a lower block
This one has been working great for three matches.
In the same vein, I was thinking of something like this
Suggestions on this 4-1-2-3 would be great while I test it out.
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How to move away from crossing tactic to through ball (Man Utd)
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Thanks for the tip!!
Also, if I have low tempo and shorter passing, is playing out of defence superfluous?