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  1. I too have been playing around with defensive tactics. I still am, some of my shouts I'm not too sure about. What strikes me about your setup is the LDs and the LFB. I tried using those as well, but didn't have any aerially strong players. You may have that, but the T-A and AF-A suggests you might not. The LD and LFB roles will generally seek to clear the ball right away. That means hoofing without aiming. For that to work you need someone who can win the ball. I found the most important thing in a defensive team is your out-ball. I mean, it's tempting to park everone right in front of your own goal, but if you invite pressure like that without providing a threat to your opponent they will eventually score. The shouts I've been using, that I think are relevant the defensive side of the game, are the following (I'm grouping them by purpose): Deep Defensive Organization Drop Deeper Stand Off Easy Tackling Getting the ball out of the danger zone and allow time to reorganize Clear ball to flanks Pass into space Shoot on sight *Optional* Route One (If you have someone who can win the ball, which I don't) This works in two ways. First of all, my players are well organized behind the ball during established play. The main problem defensively will be defensive transition (When we lose the ball). To counter the danger of the transition phase I use the second set of shouts to ensure we lose the ball as far away from our own goal as possible, preferably by letting the ball go out of play. You need to look at wwfan's defensive shouting strategies thread. My setup is not quite the same as yours so you need to look at the thread and figure out what works for you. Primarily I'm concerned about the lack of an out-ball in your tactic. There seems to be a mismatch between your defensive and your attacking players' roles. I'm also not sure I would use a BBM, but that's another story.
  2. I actually can't quite remember RTH. I'll fire up the tactic when I get home and see. I seem to remember it was a bit more of a narrow back four in defence, but I may just be imagining things. The big surprise in all this (for me anyway) was how well the two DLFs worked. They were very mobile and very difficult for opposition defenders to mark. The reasoning behind those roles were, going back to the Kontra, that Laudrup and Elkjaer were very mobile and Elkjaer sometimes received the ball with his back to the goal. I used Liverpool (pre-transfer update) for this with Sturridge as the DLF (A) and Suarez as the DLF (S). The problem tended to be utilizing Coutinho and Sterling, which is why I experimented a bit with moving the DM to AM, but that went a bit too far away from the Kontra for my taste.
  3. @Cleon: Did you post that Sweeper article? I found, when trying to recreate the Danish Kontra tactic from the 80s, that a high block defense with a sweeper and the off-side trap enabled can be a bit of a disaster. Aside from the issues with getting a Libero and a halfback combo working that was the main reason I semi-abandoned the project (Semi-abandoned because I'm enough of a masochist to revisit it once in a while). I would expect it to be a bit difficult to get to work with a high block defence, however, it would probably be great with a low block defence. My main setup was this (without the sweeper): Control(/Attack)/Fluid Retain possession Play Out Of Defence Run At Defence Hassle opponents Offside Trap Push Higher Up Higher Tempo GK: GK (D) DCR: CD (X) DC: BPD (D) DCL: CD (X) DM: HB (D) MR: WM or DW (S) MCR: MC (A) MCL: MC (D) ML: WM or DW (S) STR: DLF (S) STL: DLF (A) Pretty much anyone who could dribble was told to do so in PIs. The MCR and MCL were both told to close down more. the MCR was told to get further forward and the MCL was told to mark tighter. That's without the Libero which is a bit annoying, but it did create some pretty fluid football. I made several attempts with a Libero, but given how the offside rule has changes since the 80s that turned out to be somewhat suicidal.
  4. PPMs can be great, but also awfully overpowered. Now, Sturridge may have a tendency to shoot from range, but I'm pretty certain he would stop if Rodgers told him to. Using harsh language. And saying mean things.
  5. This is a thread I will follow with great interest. I've always wanted to be able to counteract the opposition like this. So, you're going to create 3 base tactics you believe will work in most situations and then adapt them according to who you're facing?
  6. My absolute main priority during team selection is to ensure my young talents gets game time, while still fielding a competitive side.
  7. While it is looking good in the friendlies so far I'm considering some major changes. I'm not sure it's fluid enough and I'm not sure I like the roam from position instruction here. I may just not get that instruction. but imo it sounds more like players will be more likely to not be positioned correctly than it will about actual fluidity. So, yesterday evening I had an epiphany...or a brainfart. These days it's hard to tell the difference. Could it be that Sepp build his team around fairly generic roles using pretty exceptional players? I've been thinking about switching to a Fluid philosphy and then use non-specialist roles across the Midfield strata. That would mean: MR: WM or Winger MCR: CM (Auto) MC: CM (D) MCL: CM (S) ML: WM or Winger The question then is what would set these players apart? Attributes, PPMs and PIs. Both wide players would be exceptional dribblers. One of the CMs would be a ball-winner type, one would be focused on covering for the defence and the last central midfielder would be an all-action work horse. They would all be in a CM role, but would still have their own specialties as defined by PPMs and PIs. Could that work? And would changing away from a DW on the flanks make the team vulnerable on the flanks?
  8. What add-on is that? it sounds interesting. Do you not see any attribute ratings at all then?
  9. Right. No screenshots right now as I'm away from the FM PC. I watched some highglights yesterday. More specifically from the 4-2 win against the USSR in 1985. The quality of the video wasn't too good and highlights won't give you as much information as watching the full games. I did my best to observe how the defence worked, particularly the Libero/covering midfielder combination. What I noticed in those particular highlights was that the covering midfielder did actually come into advanced positions fairly regularly. I suppose that's an example of the fluidity and may be something I can handle using the Roam From Positions instruction. I also noticed that the Libero himself didn't get into shooting positions too often. It was more a case of creating an overload in midfield or on the flanks. I experimented a bit (in friendlies, so not easy to judge based on that) with player positioning. I tried an assymmetric halfback/anchor man and didn't like how that worked. So, I decided to move the covering midfielder in the central MC position as a CM(D). This allowed the libero to take part in the action much better than the assymmetric positioning. Another thing I noticed right away in the first friendly was how the BBM and the DLF(S) got in each others way. A simple fix was to switch duties on the DLFs, but I still didn't feel the attack looked right. I decided to move the DLF(S) into the AMC position and change him to Trequartista while moving the DLF(A) into the central ST position. Immediately it looked the way I felt it should. I think that part of the tactic is working the way it is supposed to
  10. Thanks Cleon. I've read the first article and the bit about it in the new version of Inverting the Pyramid, but not the last article. Yeah, I'll have to spend some time watching footie I suppose. That's going to be rough I was starting to think assymetric as well. The anchor man is an interesting thought, however, wouldn't that make the formation even more rigid. I could compensate for that by going CM with PIs on one or both of the CMs.
  11. So. As I just asked in another thread. What would you do? The Libero/Halfback combo seems a natural fit for what the players did, but if it hampers the Libero that's a bit of a problem.
  12. Hi Cleon. In another thread I'm trying to set up something similar to the 1980s Danish team using Morten Olsen as a Libero with Jens Jørn Bertelsen acting as cover for him. How would you set that up? Thinking just in terms of roles I'd think it would be a Libero-Halfback combo, but since the Halfback operates in the DM position it sounds like that's not going to work. What would your suggestion be?
  13. Firstly, my apologies for not updating sooner. Here's a screenshot of the basic tactical layout i've come up with. Mentality: The Danes were a team looking to score goals. Although Sepp did his best to instill some discipline into the team there was a certain naivety to the Danes (being one I'm allowed to say that ). I've been messing around with this tactic in several saves already and tried many different mentalities. I've found that to get the proper attacking spirit any mentality lower than Attacking just doesn't work. Fluidity: The first great (and imo the only truly great) Danish team played some fluid football. I chose Rigid with a great deal of regret. I would really like a higher level of fluidity, but this has come down to player roles, which I'll get into later. Any feedback that can make a higher level of fluidity possible will be much appreciated. Team Instructions: Morten Olsen convinced Sepp Piontek to Use Offside Trap because the team liked to Hassle Opponents and Push Higher Up. The team liked to keep possession, but they liked to do so more through dribbling than through passing the ball. For that reason the Run At Defence instruction made a lot of sense. Much to my embarrassment I don't quite remember why i picked the Drill Crosses instruction :confused: Player Roles Goalkeeper - GK (D) I'm considering switching to a Sweeper Keeper, but so far I'm using a standard keeper with instructions to distribute to defenders. Libero (S) The Libero (Morten Olsen) is a key player in this tactic. In the Danish team it was a role personified by Morten Olsen. Morten Olsen was a midfielder retrained to the Libero role. As a midfielder he was good as a Libero he was great. In 104 games for Denmark he scored just 4 goals. By comparison Daniel Agger has scored 10 goals for Denmark in 61 games. To me this means he is not an attacking Libero, but rather operates in a support duty bringing the ball out of defence and distributing it to more advanced players. The game doesn't have very many natural players in this position and I will look to retrain the best candidate I can find in my team for this position. DCR/DCL - CD (X) In the 1980s Denmark team Morten Olsen was flanked by two brutes (well, they could be ) in Søren Busk and Ivan Nielsen. Defensively these guys would bring the pain on anyone getting near the Danish goal. Since the team is still about possession I've decided CD (X) is the best option for these guys. Halfback (D) The primary role of Jens Jørn Bertelsen was to cover for Morten Olsen whenever he ventured forward. I think having him as a Halfback makes a fair amount of sense. I'm a bit worried if having a halfback in front of the libero will hamper the latters forward movement. Any thoughts? Imo the halfback seems optimally suited for covering for adventurous defenders. MCL - BWM (D) One of the things Søren Lerby is known for is that he played without shin pads. He was tough as nails player. On the surface I think he would be a BWM (D), however, I've been thinking about making him a CM(D) with closing down and hard tackling instructions to allow for a more fluid tactic. Thoughts? MCR - BBM (S) Klaus Berggreen was everywhere. His work ethic was second to none. I think BBM is the obvious choice although I would perhaps consider CM with instructions to move around and close down more. Whaddaya think? MR/ML - DW (S) Frank Arnesen and Jesper Olsen where excellent dribblers. Covering the wings they had to help out at the back as well as be a threat on the wings. I suspect they may have been purely wingers IRL, however, using the DW role is sort of my way of adapting the Kontra tactic for the present. I think using them as pure wingers would leave the tactic far too vulnerable down the flanks. That may be close to the truth as Jesper Olsens career was tarnished by one horrible night in Mexico. A bad backpass was the beginning of the end for the Danish Dynamite. STCR - DLF (S) This has been something I've spent a lot of time contemplating. Should I have the Laudrup role behind one main striker or next to the main striker. I decided on a front two and that this one should be a DLF(S). Other roles I've considered are Trequartista and F9. STCL - DLF (A) Why DLF (A)? Well, one of Elkjærs trademark moves was getting the ball with his back to the goal, spinning around and scoring (I was going to say shooting, but seriously, this is the Elkjær role. Unless it's a penalty he scores.). Also the front two were mobile and to me that makes two DLFs more sensible. The front four (wingers and strikers) and the Libero must be excellent dribblers. They should be able to take out defences through dazzling skill on the ball. The front frontman must also have a physical presence. At least that's how I remember them. This is my take on the Kontra style. I'm happy to stand corrected and will do my best to update this thread on a regular basis. I realize I haven't told you which team I'll be using yet. I'm hoping keeping you in the dark about that will keep you waiting for more
  14. I'm not at my "FM Ready" computer right now, so any in-game screenshots will have to wait. I've just been perusing the new version of "Inverting the Pyramid" on Kindle reader and I've decided that my first tactical project for FM has to be recreating the "Contra" style of the 80s Denmark team. I haven't really decided on which team I'll try to do it with, and I'm open to any suggestions as long as it's Liverpool Actually I already have a save going that I'd like to continue. Here's what "Inverting the Pyramid" tells me about the system. It's a 1-3-3-3/3-5-2 variant, with the latter part perhaps the most dominant. Fluidity is key (not sure that necessarily means a fluid philosophy) Players must be willing to switch positions. The team like to keep possession, but running with the ball is prioritized more than it is in current possession systems. The team plays with a high line and makes use of the offside trap. The team plays attacking football (not that the system necessarily have to use the Attack style). 2 Central Defenders (Søren Busk and Ivan Nielsen) A Libero (Morten Olsen) A holding midfielder capable of dropping deep (Jens Jørgen Bertelsen) 2 Deep Central Midfielders (Søren Lerby and Klaus Berggreen) 2 Wide Attacking Midfielders (Frank Arnesen and Jesper Olsen) A mobile front two (Elkjær and Laudrup) Also, I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible. I've come to think that maybe overusing instructions leads to more confusion (for me at least) than necessary. Here's my initial take on the tactic as presented by excel and by implementing the list above this. A few things are worrying me. First of all, I believe I've read somewhere on here that if there's a DM (regardless of role) in front of the Libero he won't move forward. That would necessitate moving the DM into the CM strata, but how would he then be able to drop back into the defence? Also, having the two CM's on Defensive duty seems wrong somehow. Does the AF have the proper levels of mobility? I'm fairly convinced the Laudrup role should be in the AM strata, but I'm not entirely sure about his role. Laudrup certainly had/has the creativity to pull it off though. Considering the style, philosophy, formation etc. will the system be too easy to break down. And is that really a problem with the "Contra" system The better question is probably if it will be able to outscore the opposition? When I get to my "FM Ready" machine I'll start working on it and experiment with it, but you're more than welcome to present your own input if you have any. Oh, and I've tried to adhere to the 12 steps outlined at the very top of this forum as best I could.
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