steam just is
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Posts posted by steam just is
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12 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:
So to get back to the point, there was or was not an issue with the ratings? You have to remember, you have all the information. We have none. We can only go on what you're giving us.
I would assume that if your defenders received good ratings but an opposition striker still scored a hattrick, you have bigger issues (at least in that match) than the 2 defenders. There are 9 others players out there who could be potentially responsible and then there's also the setups for the match.
I know you can’t see the full picture and I do appreciate you trying to help nonetheless. I’m taking your advice seriously.
my setup was relatively conservative. My defensive line was average. These tactics and players had shut out Liverpool and city. I was in a neutral mode as I know the game wanted to sting me.....local derby, poor opposition wanting to prove doubters wrong etc.
I don’t mind the ambiguity. I don’t mind the fact it happens. I’m not even that bothered by this result.
I’m trying to call out a FM anomaly. The match that’s going to bite you on the bum. Your set up is conservative. Your team is full of leaders. Morale is high. Complacency is low. I picked a team which trained great that week......which concedes 4 goals! Despite strong CB performances.
Without a shadow of a doubt a piece of code kicks in which supercharges the opposition (no the result isn’t predetermined) and they play at a supra natural level.It happens a lot I’m afraid.
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5 minutes ago, Freakiie said:
I'd love to see the kind of reactions if someone got the game that ruined my unbeaten season a couple versions ago. Opponents created nothing, got 2 penalties, I knocked myself back to a 2-2, only for them to get a third penalty. Best part? All three were wrong calls and the ref afterwards had a rating of 1.4 or something.
Anyway, looking at the stats, the opposition has a pretty low xG (and so do you tbh), so the 4-3 is rather surprising. Considering that your defenders didn't give away that big chances, is it that surprising that they still have decent ratings? If anything I'd put a lot more blame on the goalie for letting in multiple relatively easy chances and looking at Onana's 6.6 it suggests that while he didn't make a major mistake, he also didn't do anything to actually contribute to the match. On top of that, both of your FBs also have relatively poor ratings, so that's another area to look at. I don't know how your team is set up overall, but defending is more than just what your 2 central defenders do, so you can easily concede goals without them being to blame at
8 minutes ago, Freakiie said:I'd love to see the kind of reactions if someone got the game that ruined my unbeaten season a couple versions ago. Opponents created nothing, got 2 penalties, I knocked myself back to a 2-2, only for them to get a third penalty. Best part? All three were wrong calls and the ref afterwards had a rating of 1.4 or something.
Anyway, looking at the stats, the opposition has a pretty low xG (and so do you tbh), so the 4-3 is rather surprising. Considering that your defenders didn't give away that big chances, is it that surprising that they still have decent ratings? If anything I'd put a lot more blame on the goalie for letting in multiple relatively easy chances and looking at Onana's 6.6 it suggests that while he didn't make a major mistake, he also didn't do anything to actually contribute to the match. On top of that, both of your FBs also have relatively poor ratings, so that's another area to look at. I don't know how your team is set up overall, but defending is more than just what your 2 central defenders do, so you can easily concede goals without them being to blame at all.
I get the points. All valid. It may be Onana, who after winning the golden glove last season, seems to be conceding a lot. Three goals were through balls behind de ligt who was pretty culpable considering I pushed him into a cover duty after the first goal. But the rating absolves him. Can really blame the FBs for through balls.
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42 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:
It helps AI team selection to be more realistic.
Interesting. How would a FM player know this is irrelevant to their team? Is it in the manual?
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3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:
My advice was to look at the stats, so this is unrelated? "Side preference" makes no difference in the ME, so it's not important here.
I did look at the stats. Nothing stood out. So what does side preference make a difference to?
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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:
I'd love to watch the PKM of this. Forget ratings, are you watching your players? If someone scores against me the first thing I look at is the marking, then his supply. Was it avoidable, or not? Is it even worth worrying about in the context of things? Is my team actually doing the things I want them to?
If someone scored at hat trick against me (haven't had it yet tbh) I'd see that a failing in what I went out to do, regardless of rating, so I'd be looking at how they got a platform to even do that.
You've actually taken that out of context, it might defensively or offensively compared to your rep. It's neither exactly 19 games, nor a complete refresh.
And let's be honest, you might have built a good team, but you haven't utilised it to his fullest. I don't claim to be amazing, yet last save went unbeaten in a league campaign, lowest goals conceded, most scored, best Xg for and against.
Same tactical identity (United 2006-2009 replication) throughout. If i can do it you can. If others can do it you can. I'll put in all the time in the world for people who put the effort in but I'm not going to sugarcoat it for someone whose argument is basically the game won't let me win.
Haha. That’s not my argument. I don’t want the game to let me win. when I first buy the game I hate it if I win the league in my first season. I want a challenge TMS. but game should challenge with reasons and obstacles to be overcome...... not the ubiquitous ‘they’ve proved they are no pushovers’. You ,it’s find that monotonous. Even you TMS!
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25 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:
And what did you find?
What a moderator would say (and probably did) was that teams re-assess all other teams. They do it throughout the season, but it's a much bigger re-assessment at season start and the mid-point. They assess all teams, not just human. They adapt their approaches accordingly. Whether the approaches are successful, is another question, so their 'performance' could be affected. Your 'performance' could be affected. There's certainly nothing artificial going on here.
I did t find anything obvious but....two goals were conceded by balls round the back of De Ligt who I’d played as LCB and having reviewed I see he prefers RCB. It’s something to look at. Cheers!
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2 hours ago, zyfon5 said:
Me thinking the game is too easy when the team I managed has only conceded 10 goals in a 38 game premier league season. There is no mechanism in the game that punishes you when your team is too good. Freak results do happen from time to time. Just ask mourinho how spurs lost a seemingly unlosable game against Dinamo Zagreb which their striker turned into prime ronaldo and then comfortably beat Aston villa the next game.
I get that and do refer to it in my post. Shock results don’t disappoint me, it’s the manner. The discrepancy above refers to my CBs and CMs getting good ratings despite a bloody awful performance. That suggests a problem to me. Great CBs playing well at the same Conceding a hat trick to a very average striker. It feels to me that there was very little I could do.
spurs defeat against Zagreb was all about squad morale and attitude. Both of which are supposedly excellent in my squad in the save.1 -
2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:
The game doesn't decide anything. And to be honest as long as you keep believing the game is going to decide you lose, there's little point in anyone trying offer advice
Lol. Sympathetic as ever TMS. I took the advice @HUNT3R gave seriously and re-assessed the stats.
the game is full of artificial constructs. Obviously. It was confirmed by a moderator that the opposition suddenly changes their performance against you after half a season based on your first half results. As if game 19 is an official refresh point IRL. Nothing you can do but adapt.
don’t pretend to me that the game hasn’t got a mechanism for weak teams raising their game against you. That’s fine. It happens IRL. But when you’ve constructed a brilliant defensive team, with very high leadership and experience, body language complacency is low why does it keep happening? Because the game needs it to. Otherwise we’d all end up with 100% records. The opposition aren’t doing anything clever, the AI isn’t capable. It’s a game mechanic to ensure perfection is almost impossible. No complaints about that but just admit it.I think people like me just have to come to terms with it. I enjoy the game but I call out it’s faults.
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28 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:
You'd have to look at their stats to look for clues.
What stats do you advise I should be looking for in particular Hunter? I’d love to find a solution to,these anomalies.
like I say I don’t mind a surprise result. But the pattern is FM is too regular, programmed and predictable. Feels like nothing can be done. My teams have high leadership averages and we still only lose to the small teams.
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So many questions from this game but most of all....how did my world class defence which rarely concedes allow a striker with 1 goal in 8 games, very average attributes and poor movement to score a hat trick.
how did the CBs then get good ratings?
hiw can they shut out city and Liverpool but fall to pieces against Azmoun who???
it’s because the game decides it’s time for a freak result so a freak result shall happen. It’s not the tactics for anyone who wants to argue that, my team copes very well against far superior 4231. I deliberately wasn’t too attacking and chose balanced tactics.
Funnily enough one of our ex players did the warning media comment about Azmoun before the match.....which suggests the game had decided it will be his day. I did check him out, he’s average at best. Form terrible. And yet, and yet he rips de ligt and skrinnar apart....who both get good ratings!!
a lot of words for one match but it reflects deep frustration with the way SI get away with this. The match you can’t influence as it’s been decreed you will lose.
Oh and I don’t mind freak results btw, they happen just as much IRL. it’s the manner in which they happen. The total implausibility of this striker suddenly becoming mo salah. Worst of all my CBs totally forgetting how to defend.
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2 hours ago, alian62 said:
Ive complained about this since FM18 as they seemed to lose the plot after FM17 . From memory they started to use a different 3D design company so it all changed . There are some decent mods around but still not up to being anything like they use to be . Im hoping that after a new soccer manager game is released in June that things will change because its being touted as a rival to the FM series . Think it is call WE ARE FOOTBALL by Winning Games .... Made by some people who had connections in earlier FM games . FM needs good competition so hopefully this might do something
I couldn’t agree more. It’s like they were warned off using the code. Why else make such a backward step? Gaming is meant to leap forward graphically. FM is the only game in history than went into full reverse. I still we suck it up!
The drop in style between 17 and 18 was truly shocking. We’ve never been told why.
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All valid replies. I guess when somebody says that ambiguity is good and it replicates football there is a part of me which thinks isn’t that making it easy for SI? Liverpool Arsenal spurs are all great examples of ambiguity in 2021. But at least when klopp says mark a player he knows when and where. When he thinks of player attributes he knows if that’s a coaches assessment, his assessment or another metric. Etc etc
It’s a great game which frustrates me. As a spurs fan it can’t get much more real life than that ha! I just think tactics and attributes need some updating. The same for a long time now
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3 minutes ago, Tyburn said:
Personally I like ambiguity. In fact I’ve re-skinned the game to add further vagueness.
Football is complicated. Unless you have more money than god, then it becomes easier, but not always.
Perhaps SI could implement the vagueness of football in a different way, but personally I feel the unknown, luck, is handled pretty well. It is definitely deliberate by SI, because that’s football.
If anything, I want more of it. I feel absolutes are unrealistic when dealing with football. Nothing is 100%.
Too much of FM is absolute imo. More vagueness please.
I do kind of agree. And if the mysteries are revealed I guess it will make it a walk in the park. But I’d like more clarity with greater tactical and strategic challenges. It’s just a bit too much guesswork for me.
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Just thinking about how FM skilfully keeps its players in the dark about quite a few things.I think it’s intentional on the part of SI. I play FMT on iPad but it’s relevant across the whole stable of products.
1. training. I bought Camavinga from Rennes as a complete midfielder aged 21. Sure I’m not alone! Training him as a RPM, my favourite position being a Modric fan. Within Weeks his attributes are dropping like a stone and he’s gone from a 4.5 to 3 star midfielder. No explanation. No obvious reason. No obvious solution (in FMT). Just FMs little secret.
2. tactics. One of my least favourite players to play against is Saisa Milokenvic-Savic. He’s a brilliant Box to box. So do I tightly mark him? But he’s not the most creative so that’s probably an unnecessary distraction in areas away from my goal. If I don’t mark him tightly does that mean he gets more space for headers in the box which he invariably scores. Again v little official advice from SI. I think it’s a flaw in the tactics system, which has gone unimproved for way too long. Same goes for pressing.
3. mystery results. They’ve proved they’re no pushovers!!! Yes this does happen in real life but great teams have a way of overcoming it. It seems in built that SI doesn’t want a work around on these results,
4. Match stats. Are they really that accurate???
5. attributes. Plenty of healthy discussion about these on forum but what are they as defined by SI. Please tell me.
I don’t want to be spoonfed. But I want to know what the game parameters are so I can manipulate them from a position of knowledge.
I think SI keep these deliberately ambiguous. I know there are tactic forums etc but I don’t want to copy others. I want the game to be clear and draw my own conclusions.
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12 hours ago, Danchinaski said:
Possibly not the right thread to drop this but has anyone else noticed the pitch graphics are significantly poorer now than they were in fm17? For example I've just played on a pitch so terrible the media made a fuss about it, but it still looked like a snooker table on the match screen, kind of ruins the immersion somewhat. I'm running medium graphics on a toaster laptop, is there any tweaking l should do to improve this?
Haha exactly! Poorer graphics in a game 5 years on. How does that happen in gaming???? Couldn’t agree more. I’m beginning to think they must have been under some copyright threat for the graphics code in 17. It suddenly got much worse in 18 and is still worse than 17 even now. I’ve asked it before and I’ll probably ask it again but which other game gets away with a worsening product?
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Then highlights gone
Assistant feedback gone
match regularly skipping half time still there
data glitches still there
to name but a few. I’m enjoying it overall but oh my word FMT is the only game that gets away with losing features and offering less than it did 5 years ago.
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The match often skips half time so I can’t see average positions etc. Where do I find them and assistant feedback?
cheers
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10 minutes ago, Svenc said:
Speaking about data (which FM contains too now)...
According to xG/Xpoints, Liverpool last term weren't quite as dominating as the point table suggested.
EPL xG Table and Scorers for the 2019/2020 season | Understat.com
Liverpool xG stats for the 2019/2020 season | Understat.com
The model at Five Thirty Eight too actually had City sitting up top (which incorporates xG, but also non-shot based xG, and a couple more).As a follower of Statsbomb, I personally too was expecting a closer title race than last term.... of course, City are now completely running away from the pack, which wasn't as predictable. But even acknowleding for xG's flaws, I think even the Liverpool staff (who are data fluent) internally had acknowledged that this was a special season. And anybody managing City would have had a heart attack (or accuse the Pool AI of cheating -- again, based on the data now in the game). Klopp, of course is no stranger to "special" seasons himself.
Borussia Dortmund's crisis isn't a crisis at all, and stats prove they will rebound (espn.com)Interesting article. Shows how thin the margins between success and failure are.
I won the europa league with spurs and got to final of world club championship. Within a few weeks I was losing 5-0 to West Ham. Statistically it was an even game. One of those matches that infuriates as you can’t explain why it’s happening on FM. but I guess, considering the above, klopp must have same frustrations IRL. and clearly has had it before at Dortmund.
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19 minutes ago, DP said:
A good point here. FM struggles to introduce jeopardy when you’ve established yourself as a top side, especially further down the years you go.
If you won the league with Liverpool it would be unlikely you’d be languishing in 7th the season after.
This is true. I’ve read plenty of articles trying to explain what the Liverpool problem is. it’s all speculation, even Klopp might not know. For what it’s worth my opinion is that it took all their mental strength to collect 200 points in 2 seasons and be unbeatable at home. Once that momentum was taken away they had no mental reserves left. (Although it could be salah is disrupting...)
What is correct is retaining the EPL is bloody difficult. Probably for psychological reasons. But how does SI go about factoring all this into the game - hence why great teams stay great in FM.
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“By the end Liverpool had extended that run to five home defeats. It is a mind-boggling collapse on the back of that 68-game unbeaten run.
Football is often cast as a science, the players as mobile data units, predictable in their movements, their chemistry, their interactions. But never let it be said this is anything other than a business of emotion, anxiety and human qualities, bound up in how the players feel.
Sixty-eight without defeat into five in a row: this really is wild. No matter what we throw at it, football remains the most brilliantly unknowable of human activities.“
Are FM players mobile data units? Does FM make football the most brilliantly unknowable of human activities? Is that why players cry when they’ve lost but can’t explain it? Or is it as simple as buying forwards with 18 pace and waiting for the trophies to come flooding in?
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4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:
Personally speaking, if I was playing any setup that saw Harry Kane goalless for 18 games I'd put it in the bin
And, as I mentioned, the system is working well for others. Let’s not over complicate...I’m playing him as a DLF in an attacking system. Not sticking him as a defensive FB.
I don’t doubt other people rinse his qualities but let’s not forget last year, as an experiment, someone put a 17 year old keeper up front for Liverpool in fm20 and they scored for fun. So the ME may be a giant leap forward or nonsensical anomalies may still crop up.
cheers for your help though TMS.
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Ah. I congratulate you on your humour. If not your assistance.
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10 minutes ago, cris182 said:
Disagree, I can get him scoring, It is simply not the case that it is the match engine of they whole forum would be reporting it
Could be. I mean getting Harry Kane scoring shouldn’t be difficult! 18 games is faintly ludicrous tbh. Hence the post.
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14 minutes ago, zindrinho said:
He scores loads of goals on my save, have you tried re-installing FM to solve this problem with your match engine?
Would that help??
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How did my CBs get good ratings for allowing a mug player to get a hat trick?
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
So your point is to showcase how routinely I’m irked by the ME. I don’t think this is what mods should be doing tbh. Yes the game does wind me up because yes there are anomalies and yes I’ve bought every version for years so I’ve got a right to convey my opinions.
for the record ........I play Kane as a DLF and here are his stats under my watch. Cue knowing laughs between some of the mods and users. My team are always in the top 6. Always score plenty of goals. The most outstanding CF of his generation has barely hit double figures in 5 years. He missed the first 3 pens under my management in a row. He’s still pen taker. The game goes down inexplicable rabbit holes. Last year a 17 y o Liverpool keeper was the top scorer in the league in someone’s save. Its imperfect which is fine but I want to vent. You guys always end up getting really Allardyce (very defensive).
IMO the graphics and ME in particular took a serious hit after 17. The problems therein still manifest themselves as strange moments, results and stats. Or do you think the game has only moved inexorably forward the last 5 years??