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  1. @Weston it certainly makes it easier to learn the trait yes and the higher the attributes the better. I’m speculating here but I think the specific accuracy trait for converting chances is quite low in this version of ME. Unusually so in comparison to past FMs. Places shots trait seems to compensate by generating a chance within the ME at a higher rate, with another higher rate added to the chance being finished. At least I believe that’s what happens. Sure the shots weaker but power of shot isn’t a problem in this particular ME, the accuracy though is! So I wanted to even that up and I believe that’s how you do it. Just another update for those in here who complain with no reasoning. I decided to jack it in with Bayern Munich and took over in league 2 with Accrington Stanley. Short end of it even taking into account signings we are shocking talent wise. Half way through the season predicted 14th, currently 13th. But, I’ve now trusted my previous 4-4-2 formation from my Bayern team after dabbling looking at wing play 4-4-2 and cautious wing play styles that were seen as good for the team. After a rubbish start to the season (I think I was 3 games away from the sack personally) we’re now 6 points away from the play off spots so I think my tactic is quite good. I’m not angry at the ME for when I lose games now though. My players just aren’t good at executing what I want and at times it’s infuriating and also hard to accept. The amount of dumb mistakes that happen just happens because they really aren’t good players. Sucks but true!
  2. So little update on my Bayern Munich save - now I’m in the 2034/35 season. My honest opinion - the games fine. 1 on 1s are a bit skewed but tbh - the game is fantastic. I’ve now started to figure out the nuances of the engine and the games got most things down to a tee. Won the champs league twice, league 4 times. In terms of the game it’s the first time in my opinion that not only are traits a must, but the right ones as well. Solving finishing in the game came down to one trait. Places shots. If any of your strikers learns this trait, the game becomes infinitely easier. Players who couldn’t get over 10 goals were now hitting 20/25 per season. Tactics also matter and you DO need to learn about your players, which means playing games. I managed to get my team firstly competent and win the league playing 4231, we were efficient on the ball but rubbish at finishing. I started dabbling with 343/352 and was starting to get better results. In the end I’ve actually settled on 442. I’ve been unbeaten using 442, then tried the tiki taka Guardiola tactic which is on YouTube uploaded by FM Scout and realised about half way through that it’s good, but it’s nowhere near as good for me personally as my 442 so I went back to it and comfortably won the league. There has been one amusing bug which I screenshotted which showed a future vision from my new chairman but it was notifying me that it came from my old chairman. Honestly though the games fine. Work on the correct traits, especially places shots trait for all strikers and the game gets so much easier!
  3. Good Afternoon Team, A side issue but one that has been frustrating in every FM that's been made, can we please have each season you play in the game, enough players generated (by however means) to fill enough of the roster for each of the teams at international level for every nation? So for example, if I play a save in England, over the course of many years, many africans, asian sides and some north american outfits will have greyed out players and they won't generate any players going further and eventually irrelevant. It would be nice to always have each nation generation say... 100 players if it's on the large database and guarantee that every nation has it's youth sides and senior side filled with real players. This could even be something you tick when you start the game because it's not a necessary feature, but it's not realistic to, after a while, play greyed out team after greyed out team internationally except for the 20 odd nations who usually always generate talent. Any queries just let me know. Kind regards, Wendigo7
  4. So I'm back after my hiaetus from the game, just to take a break. I'm now playing as Bayern and continuing my save in Nov 2032/33 (13/14 year save so a good spread of information) and seeing if I can have any grievances with the way I'm playing. My first impression over the seasons: It's difficult to score goals in this years FM and they don't match to real life. - It is hard to score. Initially in this thread or in the old thread I stated it depends on your tactics. I'm actually not so sure anymore. I'm currently 12 league games into the season, the average amount of goals per team is exactly 1. There are only 2 teams who are outperforming that. Myself and one other. Most people have scored or conceded around 12 goals. - I'm checking through the previous seasons statistics. In the german league after 34 games, 10 of the 18 teams were unable to score 34 goals. 11 of the 18 teams were unable to score 1 goal a game 2 years back. At an expectation, I'd expect the worst team in the league to score 1.0 goal a game or a smidgeon under, the rest should be over and some going at 3 goals a game at the extreme end. 1.2 to 1.9 is a rough guide. Teams cannot even reach 1 goal. I don't have to dive deep to see it's hard to score. - Average top scorer per season - Here is a list per season of the top goalscorers prior to this seasons FM: 2007 - 20 goals, 2008 - 24 goals, 2009 - 28 goals , 2010 - 22 goals, 2011 - 28 goals, 2012 - 29 goals, 2013 - 25 goals, 2014 - 20 goals, 2015 - 19 goals, 2016 - 30 goals, 2017 - 31 goals, 2018 - 29 goals, 2019 - 22 goals 13 Year spread. Only 1 season under 20 goals. Average goals per season 25.15 goals per season by the leagues top scorer. Here is my saves records for the Bundesliga: 2020 - 24 goals, 2021 - 23 goals, 2022 - 19 goals, 2023 - 17 goals, 2024 - 16 goals, 2025 - 18 goals, 2026 - 21 goals, 2027 - 17 goals, 2028 - 16 goals, 2029 - 18 goals, 2030 - 18 goals, 2031 - 17 goals, 2032 - 16 goals, 2032/33 (Nov) - 8 goals 13 Year Spread. Average goals per season is 18.46 goals per season by the leagues top scorer and considering how little goals per season are scored per team, it's highly likely he's the only one usually scoring for his particular team. If I were to take the first 3 seasons out which were Lewandowski with the records and they are large outliers, the average goals scored is 17.4 goals. About 8 goals per season lower. So it's possible it's not just me struggling, everyone in the game is struggling to score as born out by the stats and by the top goalscorer. **One other note so far without looking too deep** - I went 15 games, league and cup without conceding a goal and only conceded 10 half chances in that period... with an attacking formation. Really?? I'm happy to screenshot any of the information requested above if any of SI needs any information.
  5. Well I've now played 10 seasons and a lot of hours. The beta is WAY, WAY better. I've taken East Fife from relegation to league 2, back to the prem, professional status, building the squad to take on celtic and rangers, beating them, winning all that can be won in Scotland, champions league week in week out. I've loved it. There are some hilarious bugs, such as being reported about players who are and have never been yours that they are unhappy or about to be released (I just found that absolutely cracking as a news item in my inbox, it looked so totally out of place...), or the latest issue in my save which I'll discuss below after taking over a new club. So I got bored at East Fife, it's so much effort and time dragging a low side and doing well etc. Last summer in the game I bid to take over at Dortmund, Tottenham and Barcelona, put myself out there and wanted the job, got told off by management and stated if I did that again I was fired (ha). Some of the reasons I got rejected were also cracking yet totally reasonable. This summer I've just been offered the gig at Bayern Munich and I'm looking forward (after taking a break for a week or 2) to having a reign and enjoying being a big club, for different reasons. A bug that was annoying is that within the first year of the save, with poor performances at Newcastle I had a bad atmosphere at the club and left. That has now been asked at every single interview I've been in and is still being asked 10 years down the line after success and a very happy squad for a long time at a club. Surely, that can be tweaked and whilst it's a reasonable request at an interview, it isn't every second question I get asked and there must be a relevancy test? So that things in the last 5/6 years in the game are discussed but longer term queries are possible to be asked but not definite? I do think the goals are low. Over 10 seasons, the average top goalscorer in the league after 38 games every year is 16-17 goals and myself I've got over 20 goals with 1 player once, it's bloody hard to score!!! It just seems very low. Usually in the past it's between I would guess 22-35 ish... as a rolling average. You should be able to outperform or underperform occasionally but I can't even reach it and nor can any of the clubs get near these averages. Another bug I've noticed is that I've taken over at Bayern and one of the roles is to maintain the youth academy as the no 1 youth academy in the game. Within 3 days this failed and the board are complaining (doesn't seem to be anything that'll cost my job). Surely, I shouldn't be getting hounded for this 3 days into the role when I'm in a period where I've had no control specifically on that side of the club... Any way just my 2 cents. This game is A LOT of fun, it does have bugs and some of the averages seem a bit off, stay positive please :). Regards, Wendigo (Sorry I didn't respond back with my previous quip on issues with the game, after looking at the data I wasn't convinced I could prove my theory and ultimately I don't play a style of football which encouraged my complaints so it seemed a bit fickle for me to complain about something I wasn't trying to achieve etc.)
  6. So from last night when I started compiling stats on my games for PSG, it was noticeable that every single team was basically setting up cautiously. I'm actually ok with that, playing against a bigger club etc, you'd expect a cautious approach, but not quite the 100% cautious after the first 8 games, 2 of which were Villareal who were defensive and Juventus who went cautious from the start. I'm trying to compile the season and put it into a spreadsheet for both East Fife and PSG. I'm only a little way through so hopefully in the next couple of days I'll get it up on here for people to read.
  7. I'll get back to you on this information. Tonight I'll compile a list of goals and how they came about, from each save, as well as a few PKMs for indicators plus any more observations I have. (It might be just me etc.)
  8. So, from my comment a few pages back, I've finished my test. IF you get your opposition instructions correct, it makes the match engine much easier. So I have 2 saves, a test save and a personal save which is my main. My test save for one season was PSG, it's not finished but it's most of the season through. My personal save is a journeyman save where I've ended up at East Fife (A semi pro team who at the time were about to be relegated to Ladbrokes League 2, the last top end Scottish league). Please first see the attached results. My impressions are, the game mirrors quite well real life, IF you get the correct presets for opposition instructions. If you don't get the opposition instructions correct, plus a decent formation, every match is a slog. A big team can make the templates in game work quite well. Combining the Gegenpress template with 1 tweak, to work the ball into the box, plus the attached opposition instructions, as you can see I'm at the point in the save where I will win nearly every game. Even the champions league games, I've not gone on to the tactical discussion areas to get a win all tactic for the larger sides, well at least, not in this experience. My East Fife save however is a slightly different kettle of fish. I took them over late in the season when they were in Ladbrookes League 1 and apart from a spurt, we were still relegated into league 2 but I was given a 2 year contract. From there I looked at the team and did try to set the formation out myself, however, it's unappealing that my only suggestion from coaches was to play cautious and look to nick a goal from long ball. This was true with the side though. We were a very poor side in all attributes, bad form, bad players and I tried my Gegenpress formation for a first attempt. Combined with my opposition instructions. Bad idea. The opposition instructions were fine, but the team was not capable of playing a very technical and hard working formation. So I switched to a 4-4-2 with wing play. I had mixed results at this point. I managed to get the team a few wins and draws, but it was wildly inconsistent. Perhaps I should have stuck at it and persevered. However I did in this instance take a pre-working 442 formation from the tactics area (either here or FM base) and stuck at it. I've now been promoted 2 seasons running with an average CA of 55 to 70 (now in the championship around 75-80 ish). A semi professional club. I'm now in the championship and tied top looking to promote to the Scottish Premiership. We have NO money either. I'm skint and no one barely wants to come to me but we're getting very good results. The game works fine. It's definitely do able but I do feel you need to work backwards. I've attached my set pieces and a screenshot of my OI's for reference. Get the correct set piece takers in place, the correct OI's and the right side parts, THEN work into the formation. After that re-calibrate. I feel like the formation is the last bit of the puzzle and merely the basic structure of how you want to play. I do have some thoughts on the ME though: 1. Set pieces - A lot of goals are being scored from free kicks where the ball is passed across to the man in space outside the box. Very high frequency. I'm going to see if I tweak my free kick defence whether I can stop this, without losing anything elsewhere. 2. Penalties - Good. Fairly consistent conversion rate with the odd chance of being saved. Just enough to think you might miss but there's a good chance you'll score. 3. Counter Press - Very OP. An awful lot of goals in this game are scored from counter attacks. This may be due to setting the team up but it feels that way. 4. Goals scored in general - Seems fine. The top scorers are roughly in the right ball park. it's probably a bit low but it's nearly right. 5. Central play is rare - So this can happen, but it isn't common. Even looking at the AI and their buildup, it feels like it's a struggle to play through the middle. Most of their goals are like mine even in 443 or 4231, it's all mostly corners or counter attacks. A penalty every 3 games. Open play clinical finishing with good build up through the middle essentially is a novelty. Outside the box is also a lot more common which isn't right. 6. VAR is too obvious. It's asthetic and treat it for now as what it is, but it's very obvious. I think only once I've seen a tight call go on the edge of the penalty area as a penalty. I hope this covers a few areas and I hope people read this and the negativity (which I also had) will dissipate somewhat. I'll reiterate I've attached my tactics and my set pieces and OI's for people to copy if they feel a bit stuck. Also some screenshots for results etc. This information covers around 3 or 4 seasons so it's a good spread. Hope this helps. Any queries just let me know. Wendigo 442.fmf Positive 4-1-2-3 DM Wide - Gegenpress.fmf
  9. Right so. I'm going to report on my findings (this may be very obvious to some but here we go). I decided to start a new save from scratch - with PSG. I actually started with a simple template of Gegenpress. The only real modification I made was with balls being worked into the box. Basically taking a good template, or the template provided, First 20 games or so I won 75-80%, but when I lost or I was really struggling in a sense during a match I couldn't figure out why and it was a source of frustration. I'd lost 3 on the trot and was struggling to win. Board giving me an F match performance rating :(. I think I've found a working solution and made performance in game much easier. Now I've just gone to Lyon and Monaco away and won both 6-0. Probably not worth as much when you're PSG but when you are one of those who is looking just to see good performances consistently it's a nice answer to have possible. It's the opposition instructions pre game. GK - No instructions DL/DR - Show onto weaker foot and mark tightly DC - no instructions DMC/MC (press harder, maybe with playmaker show onto weaker foot.. I'm not that fussed AMC - All opposition instructions (hard tackling, press more, mark tightly, shower onto weaker foot) Wings (MR/ML/AMR/AML) - Show onto weaker foot, possibly mark tightly but I don't do that) Strikers - Mark tightly and show onto weaker foot. It's made the formation just from a template very solid. I'll play to the end of the season to confirm but if correct, people shouldn't feel the need infact to use exploit tactics. Just using the opposition instructions correctly might be the fix.
  10. Few bits of feedback: (I've played a season and a half for testing - East Fife Scot Div 2 and Scot Div 1) PROS: - No more over the top passes - Some really good goals scored, however most of them are outside the box or from corners. - Penalty finishing is much improved. CONS: - I'm getting around 40+ fouls per game and 5 yellow cards+ with a formation that doesn't use Get stuck in or hard tackling? (is that normal? I don't think it is.) - I'm conceding an awful, awful lot of penalties. Must be nearly one per game at least. - It's very hard with any team to get a result away from home. I actually went up with East Fife but it was a chore half the time away from home. - Probably the one I've noticed the most, regardless of time I've spent looking at formations. Working up the field is an effort. Pass and move is an effort. My formation was perfectly trained in all positions and fluid. However I watch the opponents and they can combine moves and work up the field very quickly and it looks easy to do so. Teams who I take control of, it's very hard to work up the field, it doesn't feel comfortable, they don't feel happy trying to do that. It's VERY EASY for them to pass backwards, it s very easy to play their way forwards out of their own box but then when you move back into normal play and it's general passing, no team I've managed, regardless of level looks comfortable. - The timing of crossing on the game is poor. They don't pull the trigger to cross when it looks on, it's usually the last resort when all other options have been used up, and that option is 9 out of 10... the easy pass back. Which is the problem with most of the moves you try to setup. My team is very happy to pass backwards and looks very fluid and comfortable, passing forward not so much. - As has just been added. There's basically no central play now in the game. Playing in midfield rarely happens. Most attacks are: Defensive errors - majority of goals. Defensive misreads Outside the box shots are very OP Penalties Corners I've very rarely scored a goal from open play, but I've conceded a lot from open play. I still maintain that Off the ball/Positioning as an attribute has far more of an effect than people give it credit for. These need to be really high it feels like just to cover for the issues around defending in the game, but very few players except for the top teams can consistently get these types of players, which means most matches are a free for all. (You are likely to lose them) It really does feel like a game where unless you are a world class side, it's not an enjoyable experience and not much will work. Regards, Wendigo7
  11. There's also the other issue that the development down this route in terms of code might be a dead end. ie. If they fix it, it's not worth the knock on effects that may happen elsewhere. The longer it takes the more likely I doubt there will be a patch. People just presume they'll fix it. They don't **have** to fix it for FM 20 at all. Just acknowledge it and note it for something not to do in the future. Even if they believe the complaints are or are not justified.
  12. Hello guys, Wow first time posting since FM Live!!! I can't even remember how long that was ago.. wish they released another version of it because I'd buy it in an instant. With regards to FM 20, so I have my thoughts with it, good and bad and I'll go through them one by one and try to make as much sense as possible. I've played since CM 97/98?, nearly every year. I've seen the game grow tremendously and the game has improved out of sight to where it was. I look even back comparing 2016 to now and for the most part it's vastly improved, outside of the ME first of all. The attention to detail now I love in FM 20, looking at the analyst reports, scout cards and attention to detail is fascinating. The ability to control your training, although I'm hopeless at it, is very useful. Graphically it's so good I can't imagine it getting to this stage. The transfer market for the most part this year behaves better. Whenever I spot a kid who looks like he has potential, the big clubs or even medium-large clubs are looking at the player and looking to sign him. The fees are somewhat realistic. I'm unlucky in that, in my main save, Man City have every good young wonderkid in the game and have nailed the tactics for them as well which makes it very hard to beat. I like the way the agents are introduced, the negotation with them and ultimately extending to the board as well, FM20 does a very good job of this. The grading systems for managers seem fairer. I like the input from the board and players, plus the social media feed is a lovely troll to read through. Not a necessity, but i feel is needed because it feels like something a manager would have to look through and it's a modern day occurance at this point. I do however have some things I don't like and more importantly some things I don't overly understand yet what SI want to do with. "Realism or casual, or neither?" SI's direction with the game is... fractured. At least as far as I can see. The game is trying to be realistic which is fantastic. My worry is if it becomes too realistic, I mean, technically only a certain group of individuals will have the tactical nous to go week in and week out in the premier league. Teams switch tactics sometimes in matches 2 or 3 times and are effective in each tactic, usually to throw the opposition off. Those people who can deal with this realism are at best, 1% of their sales. If it's catered to that extent, a lot of people will drop out and SI will lose income as a result of this. The game will become too difficult. "Allow a certain space in the game for plug and play for the casual players - it's not a bad thing" What if you are someone like me, who's not fantastic at tactics and I'll be blunt about myself, would happily look for an effective tactic against the ME on the tactics thread so that I can enjoy the game, primarily by winning games. I believe there's a very large amount of people who are in my position who wait for effective tactics to come out to enjoy the game. This is a clash between realism and the casual fan who still likes **most** of the game and the direction it's going but isn't fantastic tactically. He knows how he wants the team to play but isn't great with the sliders etc and it's effects on the match engine, so trusts those who do test the engine in order to get a better tactic which fits how he likes to play. With the initial templates on styles of play, I really like this but I'd prefer if they were genuinely viable tactics. It's really hard to setup your team to learn a tactic in around 10-15 games when starting a new save, and getting them to play well. Now in real life this is to be expected, it can take a couple of seasons, like Klopp and Guardiola, but I wouldn't like the idea of buying a game, which is what this is and the players take a season or 2 for me to even be able to do anything. Especially as a "casual" in a tactical sense. The vertical tiki taka and the gegenpress I love the idea of the templates but I wish they were actually viable and could get consistent results. They are essentially meant to be refined and tweaked, but if we could get to a situation where the formation templates are good on a division by division basis and the effectiveness on using them in that particular league is explained so we know what does and what likely won't work at this level due to complexicity, that would be a big leap forward. Secondly, now moving onto the ME, it feels like statistics shouldn't be the be all and end all but are and certain scripts are always what pop up as the reason a goal is scored. So with regards to statistics, I've seen that SI use real life league by league comparisons to understand how to manage the ME and how it works. Fantastic idea that's great. There's a couple of things I'd query with. Firstly, statistics are a sliding bar and they don't take into account real life changes. The games speeding up and real life football is increasing it's in play time and rules, has there been a suggestion of having FIFA/UEFA bodies be active within the game. So whilst you can't mimic exactly what happens in real life rules wise, certain situations could be run as a script. For example, a statement could be made in game saying "FIFA intends to implement X, Y Z to clear up the offside rule, or FIFA intends to increase in game play time by 5 mins.. with a max/min achievable etc.". This could lead to the game being played needing entirely new tactics for that point in the game, so perhaps the tactics centres on this forum or on steam would be obsolete or change to adapt to those situations. As it stands the game imitates I would think the last 2 or 3 years of statistical analysis in each league? Good for a grasp but doesn't allow the games to develop over time and allow for a more personalised history of your save, based on the changes that could happen in game over time. Not just with teams, but with rules too etc. (I also think the game needs to work hard on referees and VAR but that's for a different day.) "The problem of positioning and off the ball in FM" The same scripts tend to be the reason most goals are scored in most match engines. For example I won't go over what's already been said, but, the ball over the top is lethal in this game and no matter how defensive I wish to set the team up, in FM 2016 i believe it was crosses both for and against AI that were the issue, I cannot defend them. I do believe a large part of this is down to the positioning statistic and off the ball. I really do feel these 2 have a massive effect on the match engine and any player I sign going forward I look at those 2 stats. Especially off the ball. It's very rarely I see players over 10 or more in both of those 2 mental abilities. I do feel a big issue with the engine is, unless those 2 are really high and I mean 16 or 17 plus, your player on this ME will make so many mistakes they aren't worth being in defence etc. I see so many defenders who are less than 10 on both, surely at a professional level for the most part they are competent in their positioning? I know we've moved into an era where ball playing defenders are in vogue but not to the extent that no defender is able to defend either? I also note any good tactic now in the game relies solely on pace and acceleration, mostly over 15, but a little lower if you go down the divisions. This isn't for attacking competency but for defending. If I have 2 wingbacks who are very fast and defenders who are over 16 or more in speed and acceleration, in most match engines that means they'll likely perform well with a good tackling stat. Can this not be altered and more work is looked into positioning and off the ball? Those are a big part of the sport nowadays. Maybe it's me I'm not sure. "Either release the game slightly earlier or more complete" Looking at the complaints over the years with the releases of the game previously, it feels the game is sold half baked to meet shareholder demands and targets, then the game is developed over time. That's more than likely true. Could we purely have a few years developing the ME to the point now where it's less buggy, potential to have very high graphics and performs without anything massively game breaking (such as the over the top)? I understand the game is a slow development build and with each alteration it effects something else, but if we get it to a point where the engine becomes somewhat balanced and liked, can we then NOT touch how the match engine works, leave it as it is and purely develop the cosmetic parts of it? It just feels this ME is very infuriating. I've just nipped into the game right now to play for example and I'm away at Chelsea. I've been playing 20 mins and I know exactly what the script is doing and I know a goal is going to come from it against me and I don't really have a way to stop it. Football is random.. to a point, it's not this 50/50 oh well each consequential event within a game happens and that can just explain away everything. Football isn't like that, it isn't that random. Sorry for the long text. I do have alot more things thinking about the game, but due to the ME and the state it's in right now, I can't play the game unfortunately as I purely find it infuriating. I've never ever been in this position with an FM game before. A position where usually if I'm angry, it's my fault. I can tell the things that went wrong in a given event were things I was in control of and I neglected it or I got it wrong. It doesn't seem the case here. I feel like any formation or tactic I play, the ME is so messed up (for many reasons) that I can't use a plug and play tactic (this may have been SI's intention so forgive me, although I don't think it was wise to stop these tactics) and I don't personally have the prowess tactically to fix the formation and issues when the loss run starts. That's not just me, it's very hard to win against anyone when the script weights happiness quite highly. Or it feels that way but it's hard to stop a rut within the game. Some will say this is realism and maybe so, but THIS. IS. A. GAME., if it goes by realism, SI's large fanbase is whittled down to that 1%. You can't sell or develop a game based on the most realistic assumption of what it is meant to be, it won't work. I sincerely hope the new match engine build is issued shortly and it rectifies most of the issues people have with the game. Kind regards, Wendigo
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