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Everything posted by Crazy_Ivan

  1. That's a brilliant response and I thank you. Crusaderstar is one of my go to reads on tactical systems and now that you mention it it seems so obvious to me and so silly I didn't think of it at the time. My brain sometimes goes from A to B via the scenic rather than the more obvious route, but that is exactly how I will tackle this in future.
  2. So I am taking another stab at finishing this and I am using it in two separate saves with Real Zaragoza and Bordeaux, both with updated transfers etc . One of the reasons I hadn't posted the tactic was because: 1. This was meant to be a journey to the completed tactic, so it was not the finished article and I was about to come on to the issues I was having in attack, one of which I mentioned earlier and how I resolved those issues. 2. It hadn't been tested thoroughly enough to make a judgement call that says this is good enough to go a whole season. 3. My aim was to try to get people to start looking at their own issues in their tactics the way I do now. I have been and still am on that side of sitting through replays and completely missing obvious things, I am not going to lie I was very lazy with FM. I'd put a tactic in pretend I was analyzing it then rip it up and start again when it all went to ****. I was often furious at Cleon for being able to see what I couldn't see, for me there was certainly an element of missing things but it was mostly sheer laziness, I wanted Cleon to spoon feed everything to me rather than make the effort myself. One day it literally just clicked in to place, I honestly went from being an idiot to being far more proficient at tactical setups and analysis and I would say it started by watching every goal scored and conceded at the point of turnover. Not just where the ball is but the macro picture, where every player is and where I want them to be. You know why the fullback wont put that cross in to the box and he stops and waits, because I don't have enough attackers in the box and only one that is there has 3 defenders on him, so now I know I need to change things to get more players in there. I am not as blinkered anymore so when we concede a goal I don't just look at the defenders and goalkeeper, I am looking at why we turned the ball over then I make a note and if it's a recurring problem then I make changes. In this tactic if my forwards aimlessly dribbles and turns the ball over in the center of the park it's most like a goal against me it's that risky, but I am willing to give players the rope to hang themselves(or not) before I make a change. In my last game what pissed me off about Clemente my CB wasn't that the goal we conceded which went through him it was because he made a vertical pass right to the opposition players who countered quickly and scored. So at that point it's a deep dive in to Clemente's attributes and passing history. Well his passing, vision, technique, composure and decisions are all good, that's not enough, now I want to see the stats. Well the stats say he has a 96% pass rate and he doesn't try those long raking balls often and most of the time when he does they work so it's an anomaly and not a trend. If it was a trend I would change it. I see a lot of people on here focus way too much on what happened with the actual ball carrier rather than what was happening around the ball carrier that forced him in to that situation. I also see a lot of people focus on their struggles to break down down deep stubborn defensive teams and then they wait till the 70th minute before changing anything and then when they do, it's to make wholesale changes, seemingly just for the sake of it. For me I start every game on comprehensive highlights and within 15 minutes I can divide the game in to three categories 1: We are definitely scoring here and would be unlucky not to. 2: We are looking good but I need to keep it on comprehensive for now. 3: This isn't happening today, the team are sloppy all over, they look disjointed and the other team are easily corralling them when we are in attack. At this point I might wait another 15 mins to see if we improve but if not I will make changes to improve things. There was one other key element to how I changed things myself on FM, I am a stock trader by profession and one of my key rules is to "tune the noise out" I have 4 or 5 sources (some of whom were my mentors) and that is all the information I need. I don't listen to CNBC or randoms on twitter and I most definitely don't read up on stuff on any position I have open, it just makes me second guess myself and micromanage everything to death. Well for people who struggle on Football manager it's exactly the same, find4 or 5 people you can bounce ideas off of or learn from and tune the rest out, it will be better for your enjoyment and understanding of the game if you tune out the majority of YouTube and social media people. There are some great people on here and some great pinned content on here but at the end of the day you have to put the effort in or you may as well just plug and play and use exploit tactics. I want to finish this lengthy post by saying this was not meant to be an ego boost "look at me" thread. If I wanted to earn cheap likes I would post my go to tactic which is as close to plug and play as you can get on FM21, this was me stepping out of my comfort zone with a tactic that is anything close to plug and play and requires a certain type of footballer to carry out and wasn't the finished article. I am sorry if it came off that way and take on board that is what some people took from it and that's my fault. I will be updating a bit and showing the tactic soon as I have it pretty much where I want it.
  3. Great starting point here if you haven't read this. https://totalfootballanalysis.com/competitions/ligue-1/jorge-sampaoli-at-marseille-2020-21-tactical-analysis-tactics
  4. Marseille and Sampaoli, would love to help with this and will have a read up on what he is doing right now.
  5. Not so much huge additions but certainly pressing stats and at the moment i really cant put much weight in to ccc's and XG because there are some glaring holes in these which I would like to be cleared up.
  6. Great thread and I love the data analysis both the Mattys bring to their threads, my one big hope is that the data analysis takes a big step up in FM 22 with a lot more data points.
  7. Btw I forgot to mention that I didn't take him just because he was Zaragoza born but because he ticks a lot of boxes. He has some defficiencies in his teamwork and anticipation but they are fine for the second division for now and he has room and time to iron those issues out. The only other minor issue I have is that he is the first line of counter pressing and I would like his aggression to be a good 3 points higher but everything else ticks a lot of boxes and he will be a great La Liga player in future and as a False 9 being naturally two footed is huge.
  8. I have edited my heat of the moment post.........this forum can be an incredibly toxic place and when someone opens with "no ofense" and then proceeds to be incredibly rude to not one but two seperate complete strangers that's not conducive to people wanting to engage or actually present any form of discussion on here. Posting the stats which were literally not even close to half a seasons worth weren't meant to be me patting myself on the back it's meant to be a this is where we are now but that could entirely change during the remainder of the season. People can be critical of other peoples motives or methodology without being insulting, especially to Cleon of all people who has helped so many people on here.The big issue with a lot of people who read Cleons stuff is they want to be spoon fed everything rather than use the methodology he espouses and learn for themselves. Which is why I was doing this in parts because it's in no way the complete article and receiving constructive criticsim along the way is exactly the sort of discussion I wanted to have.
  9. I have noticed how you have made the connection Jean and you are right there are similarities there but with some changes. How I got Azpilicueta working in that thread and reading up on Vojvoda and how he utilises the position was exactly my starting point for this. So there is a double kicker in that my Zaragoza save is set up with rules exactly like how Athletic have it today. Aragon is a vast autonomous region in Spain where Aragonese is a dying language and in that vast region there are precisely two clubs. Huesca and Zaragoza and thanks to mismanagement Zaragoza are 50 mil in debt and underperforming. This is where Lopez comes in because although he has that Basque football upbringing he was born and raised in Zaragoza so the hope is that although he is only on loan at the club that we can somehow make it permanent in future. Of course the better he does the harder or more expensive that becomes. So far:
  10. 1.This is a tactical discussion forum not the tactics download forum where I say trust me this works here are my results off you go. If people ask me questions I will answer them, I have already answered a question and said that the Hybrid is a IWB on defend with no PIs. Sure I could have released the whole thing in a months time but my wife, kids and I have all had Covid and so through sheer boredom and through a complete lack of any fresh tactcial plans etc decided to start this now and work through each phase. Perhaps I will leave it then till I am able to post the whle thing. 2. The tactic is still a work in progress but I wanted to show people exactly why tactics don't need to be ripped up and started again, but through peoples own eyeball analysis and freeze framing and slowly rewinding and fast forwarding transitions(something I learnt from Cleon) they can spot issues with their tactics and change roles or instructions to improve their own tactics. Also I wanted people to realise that tacttical issues aren't aways tactical but can very much be personnel related and although that might seem obvious to some it isn't obvious to others. You're out of order with regards to Cleon and responses like yours are the reason why we lose so many brilliant people on this forum and it's turned in to a ghost town version of a subforum. I will however take on board that perhaps it's best left till I have the tactic 100% where I want it and then release all the info I have then.
  11. Thanks so much for all the very positive comments and upvotes. My wife is dealing with some serious effects of Long Covid so I will be updating this at some point soon when she starts to recover. Cheers!!!
  12. That means a lot, for a long time I was in the wilderness with the tactical side of FM and it was you and your incredible amount of work that literally made it all clicked in to place one day, so all that effort you put in helped hundreds of us.
  13. Tempo Changes As laid in my OP Fortaleza are happy to build up patiently and in an instant take it up a few gears with slick intricate one touch play and fluid movement. I don't think any clip better represents that than in our match from Castellon. From tackling their player and passing the ball back to our GK to shot on goal is a 20 pass sequence that starts incredibly patiently with a 17 pass sequence and in an instant switches to a 3 one touch passing sequence that fully deserved a goal. Unfortunately I am stuck with players like Gamez that has an 8 for finishing and with a bit more pace and some better finishing would see this ending in a goal. The one other point to make here is you will see in a lot of clips I post that James or or players in that position will use that one touch pass a lot. They are literally always moving looking for space and just connecting players keeping the ball moving. Here is a still of what I am looking at just before the three pass sequence begins. That tight triangle on our right sided overload is crucial to this but I also am concerned and think part of our forward problems are my fault. If you look at our number 14 he is way too deep for my liking here, he needs to be far higher up and occupying that huge space. There is an argument to be made that if you create a right sided overload one of your best finishing forwards needs to be occupying the space that it creates for you, if our number 17 is in that space we might not even get that sequence because James has another one touch passing option in to that space for our forward to run on to so I will be addressing that right away. BTW I have absolutely zero idea how fans land up seated in the middle of the pitch in these highlights. Maybe it's like some Spanish 2nd Division version of a chefs table in restaurants. In our last game which was against Almeria you can see again how slickly we pass through the lines this time scoring the goal. In the very same game the Hybrid gets the header from their kickoff and from here we counter at pace with five men attacking against their five defenders and our winger with the angled through ball. In this clip we have an example of our keeper deciding he has spotted an opportunity and although the keepers mostly play out short from the box they will(much like Vojvoda likes his GKs to play) take the long kick if there is a chance. So this is a situation where the team eschews that slow patient build out play from the back and rapidly attacks, this is literally goalie to winger to false9 with another shanked shot from another unsuited player I inherited. My final clip(I could be here all day to be honest) is some delightful play with movement that opens space and then taking advantage of the space and just a delightful one touch pass to make sure the defenders can't rectify their error. The Hybrid is in possession of the ball out of shot , our three attackers on the rights are relatively well picked up. Cucho drops deeper taking their number 12 with him, Gamez already starts to shuffle wider here to make some space but when he receives the pass he moves even wider, taking his marker with. Now number 12 decides he needs to close the ball carrier down , so the players have removed two of the defenders from the equation. Gamez now one touch passes it to Cucho and straight away loops around in to that channel that has been created. Cucho passes it to James who now spots the opportunity and before the defenders can get back on to Gamez one touch passes it through for the goal.
  14. I wanted to highlight a couple of passages of play from my latest match to show how we overwhelm the opposition in both the offensive and defensive phase and the dynamism between the players in their thinking and positioning. Straight from the kick off we have our first chance. After a bit of a slower more patient build up the ball makes it to Lopez. Lopez then switches the ball wide to our "forgotten man" lWB role as I like to call it and will cover later in a bit more depth. He's certainly not forgotten by our team but you will see that the opposition frequently forget he is there. Chavarria wasn't the starter at the beggining of the season but I found Nieto's decision making in the attacking phase to be so poor that I gave Chavarria the start and he has made it his own. Now Chavarria is in acres of space and their number 17 didn't track his run at all. Chavarria's decision making here is again excellent, the opposition number two has to close him down and Chavarria let's him do that to a point. As soon as the oppsition number 2 is out of the box and stuck in no mans land Chavarria crosses and there is a 4 vs 4 in the box with Cucho somewhat open. The ball makes it to Cucho but unfortunately he is 5ft9 with very average jumping and heading ability which is again an area I want to improve in. I always like to analyse both sides in any phase and this is what I am looking at in the big picture from Cuchos narrowly missed header. A massive space completely unoccupied by the opposition, five of their players around their box in no mans land offering nothing in either defence or attack and Vigaray is in a midfield position where he can either attack the flank or move back in to the defnsive line. If they had cleared the ball from there the odds are we win the ball back staright away. The only area that I can see that would be an issue is the area I marked with the eliptical shape below. If the ball makes its way in there then their number 17 has space to work in. But having watched a lot of minutes in testing and in this save I know two scenarios are most likely if that were to happen. Clemente closes him down, Vigaray moves back in to the defensive line Frances shifts to the left and Ros moves back to form a back three.(I'll show you later how often Ros does that.) Ros closes him down and Vigaray simply moves back in to the defensive line. So in this opening attack we are not only dominating the attacking narrative we are also dominating the defenisve one too, we are essentially strangling them and denying them a chance to break away and score a cheap goal. Our defence already starts during our attacking phase whilst still overloading the oppositions back line. The next sequence we see Clemente the CB recieves the ball and decides to actually attack with it, something I have seen the CB does this on more than one occasion and will cover later. Chavarria the LWB moves narrow now forming a back two. Ros the deepest midfielder hass moved left to provide a passing outlet for Clemente and Vigaray has moved forward and narrower taking up a DM spot. Clemente loses the ball but James and Azon are instantly counter pressing. Vilaba passes to Babin but in a flash James is on to him and rather than risk turning it over on the edge of his box he clears it. The ball lands at Chavarrias feet and again we start attacking them. The relentless pressing, overloading(in the defensive phase too which I will show later) and pace of the attacks overwhelms the opposition team who rarely have a chance to reset defensively. In this segment we have a defensive situation which I see often and is part of the brilliant dynamic teamwork I wanted. The Hybrid has obviously stepped out the defensive line, this was initially to press one of their attackers which is why the ball made it backwards. Cucho is pressing the ball carrier. Chavarria has moved narrow and has now formed a back three with the two CB's Note that both their fullbacks are being marked Their player who is being pressed decides to try and chip it over the top which lands to an off-sides Campuzano. Now the whistle hasn't blown yet so Frances still presses Campuzano wide but he's leaving a gap which Vigary the hybrid recognises and he has pace which he utilises and in an instant when Campuzano turns to look for options Vigary is back in the space vacated by Frances and Chavarria mainting that back three all the way through the phase. It's elemnts like this that make me very happy, we essentially have five players that will regularly interchange to keep our three at the back in defensive phases. Half time!! Here's why I don't put much stock in XG, it would be wrong to say we had many good chances because in reality we had one. But the goal we scored for me was that one great chance and yet the chance wasn't listed as a CCC, wasnt listed as a half chance and had an XG of 0.13. We got one good chance and we took it, now the opposition are going to have to come out to play a bit more and open themselves up a bit so I am not changing anything. The second half Sporting did come out to play, they switched from a 4-4-1-1 to a regular 4-4-2 and they started pressing our players a lot more. This however resulted in a few good chances for us including one that was easier to score than miss but miss we did. There are certainly some issues in attack as I highlighted earlier. The decsion making isn't always the best, we don't have height and we could do with some better more lethal finishers. More later on!!!!
  15. He is exactly in that role yes. No PPMs and no player instructions however. The movement is achieved with the other roles and team instructions.
  16. The Hybrid CB/FB I have mentioned how this role is increasing becoming popular in the modern game and how a myriad of modern forward thinking managers are using it these days and this is a key role in Vojvodas system. The Hybrid in a back three: You can see in both pics how we line up during opposition goalkicks. We retain a back three as we would see in any traditional back three set-up. The Hybrid out wide: Straight from the first attack against Leganes (who happen to be one of the big favorites for promotion back to La Liga) you can see the level of risk we are willing to take. Sutalo our CB is dribbling forward with the ball, Vigary(The hybrid) is wide here in support and you can see the huge gaping hole where the RCB normally is. Sutalo eventually lays it off to Vigary and starts moving back in to defence and Vigary moves in to the FB phase of his role ready to take the opposition player on. In a different game here the opposition goalie kicks the ball long and straight towards Lasure who is filling in this hybrid role now. Lasure cushions a header to Adrian. Five passes later and look where Lasure is and how much space he has. Adrian however probably makes the right decision (considering Lasure is in an offside position) albeit with some poor execution. There are three attackers onsides and goalside of their markers and if he puts a better ball in to the box it's a tap in. As it happened he just missed Carbonells run. In another example Vigary moves to intercept the ball clearance from the CB position, you can see the absolute huge amount of space for him to exploit Which is exactly where Vigary attacks and he manages to put this low hard cross in which can cause chaos for opposition defenders. The Hybrid in midfield: In this pic Lasure has moved narrow in to the midfield and formed that midfield diamond we see in my opening post. He's in possesion of the ball and Gamez the winger is actualy the one providing the width this time. This is where the tempo changes can be so deadly. This is all set to be a slower build up but Lasure and Gamez spot the opportunity, inexplicably the opposition left back is not only showing Gamez on to the inside he's left a rather huge channel of space to expoit. Which is exactly whatt Lasure and Gamez take advantage of, unfortunately this ended up off the post but it's very much exactly the kind of opportunity based tempo change I want to see from the team. Here we have Frances, my Hybrid CB of the future picking the ball up from a clearance, he's actually done something I didn't expect and brought the ball inside. By bringing the ball inside he has drawn Leganes number 22 out which gives us a 5vs4 overload against their back line and Frances passes the ball to James who is in the playmaker role. The bit I was absolutley delighted with is that James realises this isn't an optimal situation to play the ball through so decides to sit on the ball. He's held on to the ball because although we are overloading the defensive line the players are offsides and there isn't enough of a seam to play the ball through. That brief pause allows Lopez and Chavarria to move wider taking two markers and creating enough of a seam to thread a through ball to the very open Bermejo who can literally pick his spot. The 5 v 4 overload means that their number 15 defender has to pick one of two attackers which in this case was Cucho allowing Bermejo to be open. You get a little taste of how this role can impact things offensively in different areas of the pitch and I Intend to go a bit more in depth with exactly the type of player I am looking for when searching for someone to play this role, I will also update as the season progresses with both clips and pics of just how much it adds to the tactic.
  17. To begin with I am not posting the tactical formation just yet, I will do at a later stage. I find that releasing it distracts from focusing on how the system plays and how we can emulate Vojvodas ideals. I want to focus initially on how it plays, and the dynamic interplay between the players that I see every game. Bear in mind that this is the first season on a new save and because I'm at a club in deep debt I am probably 4/5 first team players away from an ideal 11. The players I do have however all have the ability to carry out what I want, some just aren't at the ideal level I want for this to work completely. Also bear in mind when we started this, tactical familiarity wasn't 100%, team cohesion is no more than average and because I'm a nobody I'm in a constant battle to keep morale up because my players are crestfallen they have to put up with my ****. Anyway, attached are some stats from the start of our season so far. So far just the 3 goals scored against us, two from direct freekicks right at my keeper that literally went through his hands and in. I don't put much weight at all in XG but it's still good to see. Dominating possesionand passing stats One of the highest cross completions but with decidedly more crosses per game than all the other teams. The lowest XGA in the league despite having played one more game. Just 18 shots allowed in all 7 matches, two of the games against promotion rivals One of the most satisying stats for me is being 2nd in tackles won percentage, it means our pressing has that much more of an added advantage, The only real negative in all the numbers so far is this, the shots on target %. This will require analysing but my initial suspicion based on what I have seen are that it's personell based rather than a system based issue. Of the four attacking players who regularly get on the end of chances, one is 17 and although a great prospect possibly not ready just yet and the other one has issues with his finishing attributes. And yes, a quick glance at my 17 year old prospect reveals that despite his 4 goals in 6 games he is largely responsible for our SOT % malaise.
  18. So Juan Pablo Vojvoda a coach who has done some very impressive things with some unimpressive clubs. A 56% win rate with Defensa y Justicia in the Argentinian Primera, taking unfancied Unión La Calera to second place in the Chilean league and qualifying them for their first ever Copa Libertadoes and most recently taking Fortaleza a team who only avoided relegation on goal difference last season to third place in the current standings. I'm sure many people claim to be a Bielsa disciple but in this instance Vojvoda has actually trained under both Bielsa and Tata Martino and they are both a huge influence in how he plays the game. Vojvoda is a big advocate of a role that is increasingly becomming more and more popular, the CB/FB hybrid, essentially a player who takes his place in a back three in defence but can attack as a wingback, come narrow as a central. midfielder or stay very wide filling that widest half space. Impossible to do on FM? Well I have managed to get it working as close to the real thing as the m.e. allows. The core principles in how Vojvoda want's his team to play are and what I am aiming to replicate are: A back three that utilises the hybrid CB/FB role We play out from the back with the two centre backs splitting, the hybrid CB taking up a wide position and the deepest midfielder coming deep. The deepest midfielder must be press resistant. The Central midfield is staggered, with one deep player and one more advanced player. An attacking shape that overloads the opposition defence with as many as five attackers overloading the opposition back line. A high defensive line and intense press aiming to win the ball back as high and quickly as possible. Short passing and intricate link-up play between the attackers to play through the opposition’s midfield and break down a stubborn low-block. Counter attacking when the oppurtunity allows, utilizing one and two touch passing with intelligent movement to create space for the forwards to operate in. On defense we aim to strangle the centre of the pitch. CB's are not afraid to step up out of the line and press opposition players or take risks in intercepting passes. A dynamic, almost total foorball like approach to attacking and defending with players comfortable in most areas of the pitch and carrying out most roles. So that is what we are looking to achieve with this system in our Real Zaragoza save. There are a few added points that I need to make. This isn't gegenpress FM 21 style, this is a series of tempo changing high movement attacking plays based on what we have in front of us that aims to unsettle and move the opposition defense around. We are utilitizing a patient build up when required and also able to change the tempo in an instant to play intricate one touch passes that plays through the lines as well as making a defence splitting pass from deep. This system requires a blend of intelligence, work ethic and technical ability to work. We just can't afford to carry players. Playing out from the back isn't always a pre-requisite, when the opportunity allows the GK will happily initiate counter attacks via long throws or long range passes. This is a high risk reward strategy and boy does it look risky at times, there is an implicit trust in the players that they wont panic and wont do stupid things that would lead to turnovers and dangerous counterattacks. A visualization of some of Fortalezas play: You can see in these two pics how Fortaleza play out from the back with their hybrid CB retaining the width and the deeper midfielder providing a passing option. Here are acouple of examples of the dynaism on the right side of the pitch. in the first picture we see the Hybrid CB operating as a Fullback and the RWB moving in to the center of the pitch to aid in overloading the opposition defense. In the next picture the hybrid CB moves in to the centre of the pitch creating a midfield triangle and the RWB is providing the width so the position requires a lot of tactical intelligence and a very good understanding with the players around him. So this is all what I am aiming to achieve and if you guys are interested in whether I can pull this off please read the updates over the next few days.
  19. Yesterday after my OP earlier in the week on my Vojvoda at Fortaleza thread I proceeded to put up two hours of analysis and then inexplicably pressed the hide topic button which just made the whole thread vanish. I messaged asking if it could be reinstated either by myself or a mod but haven't heard back so I guess this will be the thread now and I intend to put it all back up again with the updates in the next few hours.
  20. Yeah that makes total sense to me. For a game that want to be as realistic as possible approaching Dennis Bergkamp to ask him nicely(Which they normally disagree with anyway) to try and teach a player over a few weeks/months (with a high chance of failure) to stop or start doing some basic football things is ridiculous. Again there are some players that were/are virtually impossible to coach because they are so set in their ways but they are literally a small minority.
  21. Some of them are basic instructions that 90% of players can change instantly. It really shouldn't reuire an intelligent commited player weeks and weeks of training to unlearn something like dribbling a lot when the player is absolutley **** at dribbling. If we are talking learning technical things like using the outisde of your foot or curling the ball or trying tricks then I can get on board with a player learning these things but telling a striker I don't want you to move in to channels when we are in possesion shouldnt be a weeks and weeks learning process with a high chance of not working. I understand that some players in reality have been virtually impossible to change their habits but it's a small minority and it should be better modelled in the game.
  22. To be honest PPMs are how I mostly get my teams to play, for instance I inherited Milik in my Marseille save but he doesn't suit the role I want as a striker so my only option was to put him in the winger role as either an IW or IF. I couldnt change his pi's to dribble less because he frequently turns the ball over when dribbling so I put the PPM on to stop him dribbling and suddenly I have the leagues top scorer who previously hadn't played out wide. PPMs are badly implemented in FM in terms of learning and unlearning them and they do have a large effect on how your tactic will play out.
  23. Depending on whether Bellarin stays or goes you have in game a good starting back four albeit two are injury prone. They are all set to play out from the back IMO and because of the deficiencies in the heading department with players like Ben white a high line iwould be important for me. What I like to do with my high line is offset the negatives to it by making my home pitch shorter. Normally around the 100 meters mark which means you have less space at home for the opposition to run in to behind your players. Just from what you have seen on this years version how do you see the formation and style that you would like to implement with that save.
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