[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

So quick update.

I switched to very narrow and shorter passing and slower tempo... took all the advice offered with 2 games left.

First match was a 1-1 draw with Bayern Munich, which was mainly about the defence as they completely dominating as you'd imagine. Svenberg scored 20m out from Segundo Volante... another bit of advice from here!

This left us on 1 point behind Bayern with 1 match left, they were against Hoffenheim and we were against Mainz, they lost 3-0, and we won 5-1, all the changes kicked in. Thiago Tomas scored twice from IF and Nmecha scored from a through ball... something I hadnt managed to get going properly all year.

I did change the RB to a IWB on Attack, as this formed as 2-3-3-2 kind of formation in attack,

So thanks for all the advice, ill be back next season when it goes wrong

[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

On 21/03/2024 at 16:54, Cloud9 said:

• PF(A) -> 10 Jumping reach, 12 anticipation & off the ball. He's going to seriously struggle to lead the line and score as a solo 9.
  • His biggest strength is his killer pace, which would be best utilized running in behind the defensive line. It can help him press as well (quickly closing down defenders).
  • Since his pace is significantly higher than acceleration, he'll struggle to actually hit that top speed when playing in the box. His lack of key mentals will see him struggle to find spaces, especially against compact sides.
  • Fairly Wide Width makes it difficult for him to press efficiently.
    • I would recommend dropping him outside to a off footed W(s) role where he can utilize his top speed and work hard for the team, bringing in a real 9 (either a goalscorer or facilitator) can solve a lot of the issues your facing.
• High tempo high line systems can struggle to score if the opposition parks the bus, a more patient approach can be rewarding and will see less turnovers of possession as you break down the opposition. Counter will also contribute to this problem. 
  • If you commit to the high tempo / high line pressing, you'll want to go narrow width. 
• Try using hit crosses early!
• I would recommend off footed wingers instead of the IW/IF's if you're unhappy w/how they're playing.

Give Svenberg a go as SV(s) in your pivot and see how he does. In terms of the passing issue you bring up, go into their PIs and tell less talented player's to play it short to their teams. You'll need to move the Team passing meters to direct to do this and can move them back afterwards.

Looks like there are rotation issues in the squad as well. All that being said it sounds like things are actually working pretty well for you on the pitch, you're sitting second in the league!

Oh! because the tactic is narrower, the wingers on opposite feet will act like inside forward/inverted wingers anyway? Is that right?

[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

29 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

• PF(A) -> 10 Jumping reach, 12 off the ball. He's going to seriously struggle to lead the line and score as a solo 9.
  • His biggest strength is his killer pace, which would be best utilized running in behind the defensive line. It can help him press as well (quickly closing down defenders). I would look at who can be relied on to get goals for you consistently other than him (that could be involve changing to a facilitating 9).
  • Fairly Wide Width makes it difficult for him to press efficiently.
• High tempo high line systems can struggle to score if the opposition parks the bus, a more patient approach can be rewarding and will see less turnovers of possession as you break down the opposition. Counter will also contribute to this problem. 
  • If you commit to the high tempo / high line pressing, you'll want to go narrow width. 
• Try using hit crosses early!
• I would recommend off footed wingers instead of the IW/IF's if you're unhappy w/how they're playing.

Give Svenberg a go as SV(s) in your pivot and see how he does. In terms of the passing issue you bring up, go into their PIs and tell less talented player's to play it short to their teams. You'll need to move the Team passing meters to direct to do this and can move them back afterwards.

Looks like there are rotation issues in the squad as well. All that being said it sounds like things are actually working pretty well for you on the pitch, you're sitting second in the league!

 

The rotation is because those guys are coming back from injuries Llanez and Sarr as they just dont feature.

My 2 first choice strikers are Wind and Demirovic, I prefer Tomas on the wing.

Thanks for the advice on narrow and hit crosses early, ill give them a go.

Quite happy defensively, but obviously, killing games off is a challenge.

Would play through middle help?

Cheers

[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

Right, im back, with more complaints 

Started a new save with Wolfsburg, just having a few niggles that I need to iron out

1. Don't score many from open play.
2. Crosses get blocked, because the players on the wing seem to wait to be closed down before attempting to cross (Play for Set Pieces isnt on, I dont use that)
3. I had an issue with slack and wayward passes, that seems to have resolved itself with going to shorter passing and higher temp (although Arnold cant seem to play consistent passes to his own team mates, maybe we should all wear the same coloured shirts to help him)
4. Can't seem to get the ball to the striker.

Maybe its about players creating space for each other?

Also, Svenberg is useless, his shoots from distance PPM makes him blast it over rather than play the simplest through ball to the 9.

[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

On 24/02/2024 at 03:31, Cloud9 said:

No problem, happy to help out

Sounds like you're transitioning to a bit of a Liverpool style of play? My only concern would be that might not play to Kane's strengths (ie. he provides great hold up play / end product) but less pressing than a younger forward. When Liverpool's front was firing a few years back, they had the extremely talented and hard working Firmino up front to knit things together (who played in a mix of the DLF(s) + PF(s) roles imo). In terms of Kane himself, I believe he'd benefit from keeping things a bit wider and having inside runners he can play off. 

If you do end up going with a gegenpress style, then high tempo, counter press, narrow width etc. makes a lot of sense, but an aging Harry Kane would struggle to lead the press from the front in such a system.  A lower tempo is the type of play style (perhaps with hit crosses early from the wingbacks) that could help break down opposing sides.

On other roles:

The CM(a) has the potential to score a ton of goals with Kane's linking up the play, but I wouldn't want an IF(a) on his side, perhaps try a IF(s) and see how it goes?. My personal preference would be an Winger(a) on one side played on his off foot, who will operate like an IF that will drive to the byline a bit more often. I would also definitely keep Kane as an DLF(a). The role keeps the hold up play that DLF(s) offers and whenever you've got a star player like this (just looking at the stars he looks a much higher level than the rest of the squad), it's never a bad thing to ask him to score some himself. Off foot winger (a) + IF (s) + DLF(A) would be a very dynamic front 3, especially if supported by a runner from midfield. 

In both systems (esp w/ the gegenpress), with both wingbacks going forward and a fairly attacking front 3, you'll want a more industrious / workman like midfield to do the hard work for the team. I think the BBM is a fine choice for the high quality players, but a CAR pairing would cover the wide spaces if you choose a more attacking role on one of the wingbacks. A simple BWM(s) is another favorite of mine as one of the 8's.

I'd save the AP as a utility player for when you need a role playing squad player off the bench to break down a deep sitting opposition. I usually prefer a CM(s) w/modified PIs for a technical 8 as opposed to the AP unless I'm specifically trying to trigger a rotation.

Just to summarize on width: fairly narrow if going for a high press (not recommend with Kane up front) , middle of the line (what I'd recommended for now) , and fairly wide (only if the wingbacks are rapid, in which case I'd look to run this with hit crosses early, inside runners  will become especially deadly here).

Gonna have to take a break from it, really frustating at the minute, Kane is invisible, the CM A blazes over every time and every cross that doesnt get blocked and out for a corner is caught by the GK... so yeah, going to take a break.

[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

3 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I think you would find more success trying to possess the ball with players like this, rather than playing on a mid block counter. Aside from that you've got good enough player's to the point where if the tactic isn't working you know its the tactic  This can actually be quite useful when figuring out how you'd like to play, since you don't have to worry about other factors.

Aside from that, give a Halfback a go. That will give you what you're looking for from the BWM(d) (playing out wide after) while being more defensively stable. I suspect you could use a bit more hard work in midfield from the 8's (AP + 2 wingbacks going forward is a lot). Also Complete Forwards are a pain and almost impossible to find. Kane has always been a bit slower, perhaps a DLF(a) would give you a much more successful attack and role for him to operate in. 

Personally I would move the lines up, get rid of the high tempo and counter and stuff like that and play around a bit. 

Hi, thanks for the tips  I'm enjoying the HB, with the BPD, it pushes him out wide and he can help create movement out there Ive noticed. Switched to 2 IF on A and a DLF on S. Slowed tempo down to the middle notch. Think I may need to play narrower to bring the play tighter (this would create space outside for the wing backs?) Midfield is HB behind an AP on S and a BBM.

Still looking at midfield trio, dunno whether just to have them play down wings or not have a particular instruction... also using pass into space, ideally want the balls coming from the WB through to the IF who are in the half space.

[433 Help - Am I overthinking this?]

Hi, I started this game on FM23 and carried it over onto FM24, this is why I have players like Tobido/Satulo/Nmecha in what is essentially next season in real life.

Finished 5th 3 years running using a myriad of systems to try and get it over the line... somehow just won the Champions League and now want to kick on, thats why Harry Kane is now up front at 31 years old.

He's the new signing and obviously, I want to build around him. I also have Vitor Roque to work into the system as well.

I'm not the greatest tactician, my mindset is still in the 1990s partnerships around the field influenced by watching teams managed by Ferguson and Wenger.

So Kane is the scorer and creator, Almada is the creative lynchpin and the CM on A is to support attacks and give options up front. The wing backs are on support because crossing from the byline always seems to end up with the GK so dont mind them crossing from a bit further back.

I have the DM on D so he can recycle cleared balls to the wing backs and the AP... maybe the CM could have a different role to add a bit of depth and a passing option if I already have a striker and IF forwards?

I dont have a right back yet as Kyle Walker-Peters demanded £675,000 per week after a Saudi club put in an offer .

So, am I overthinking this tactic? should it work? Any glaringly obvious flaws?

Thanks in advance.

[Tactical Tweaks to get to the next level]

On 03/06/2023 at 18:55, Cloud9 said:

Tactical familiarity is pretty low in first screenshot, w the changes: might be your over tinkering and it's difficult on the players. 

If you're really struggling, I'd check morale, team dynamics, and fatigue levels in the squad. Those are the three biggest factors in your squads success imo. 

 

Yeah, im completely going nuts on everything.

If im wanting the IF to have more of an impact and want the FB and W to have more space, going narrow would create space out wide?

[Tactical Tweaks to get to the next level]

58 minutes ago, allyc31 said:

I should be upfront and say that I’m not a tactical genius 

 

but one thing I’ve found help me in 23 is removing counter press. I find unless You have a world class midfield it just wrecks your shape. 

 

Yeah, I completely agree, thats one thing ill be removing, probably counter too.

Ive never got Mezzala to work for me, so just going to swap for an advanced playmaker.

Looking at the mezzala and the 433 debate thread that was linked by Cloud9, they go with a striker or creative striker, ive combined both and added a mezzala and ended up with a mess... So thats another issue I need to look at.

Full backs are working fine though.

[Tactical Tweaks to get to the next level]

Well... 1W and 3L... think its back to the drawing board 

Its creating more, but the players are blazing over or just timid shots into the GK.

[Tactical Tweaks to get to the next level]

On 19/05/2023 at 05:34, Cloud9 said:

Looks like a solid starting point

• You've got both midfielders roaming, that's not necessarily a problem: just something to keep in mind. Might want a more defensive midfielder than a DLP behind that.
• No BPD sticks out to me with the quality in your squad, I would run at least one to play line breaking passes.
• Consider flipping the FB(a) to FB(s).
• DLF is a better forward for a high lines system in my experience.
• Focusing play down a side will tire the players out, better to turn that on in moments of matches.
• I wouldn't run a high defensive line with a midblock.

Are you trying to counter attack? If so make sure you have players with "take risk" or "pass into space" ticked. 

Here's an on going thread on the 4-3-3:

 

Thank you, Ive never used a midfield with 2 supporting roles and 1 defense, its always been 1 att, 1 sup and 1 def... think I need to broad my scope a bit.

I put the suggestions you made into practice and we moved the ball around a lot better and players went looking for space for a pass too. Think Ive gone too gung ho with wing backs too instead of looking at FB's

[Tactical Tweaks to get to the next level]

Hi

About to start my 3rd season with Leeds, finished 5th both years, but thanks to MCFC winning CL, this year I get a CL spot.

The tactic is somewhat dull, its as dull as dishwater sometimes and is difficult to watch the clock tick by with no highlights... especially when we've gone behind.

So Ive created this.... using the same shape and some new additions (Roque, Fratessi), im hoping to get some advice on this new tactic and hope it can go to next step of maybe finishing 4th... or continue to finish 5th... its all good.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Well.... this game is getting on top of me! Very impotent in attack...

------------CF(s)

IF(A)--------------------W(A)

--------AP(S)--CM(A)---

-------------A(D)

WB(A)-CD(D)-CD(D)-FB(S)

Full backs dont get forward enough, they can be open and players dont pass... this is my preferred method as it stretches them and I have Leighton Baines...

It just lacks penetration and my CM(A) doesnt run beyond the CF(s).

Any suggestions as how I can adapt to this new game from FM13?

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

I play a 41221/433 formation with a Cf support and a cm attack to do just that with a DC.

Think tempo would be the best bet. Cheers.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

How do you crack the opposition when you play a short passing game and the opposition are on you like a rash and close you down quicker than you can deal with the ball at your feet.

Increase tempo? Increase passing length?

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Can counter -short passing be used in conjunction with the pass into space shout?

[Funny Screenshots Thread]

Found this on my PC, its from FM10. I was managing Leeds when I came across this.

The Sun will have gone with the headline 'Bramble-ona'.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

I have a small u18s team at the minute, released all the low rated players with a view of building up again slowly. My question is, if I put all my 18's in the reserve grade side, will they be selected for the 18's side?

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

How do you stop a player becoming caught in possession?

I have several players who will get the ball, stand there, turn around, then get tackled.