Tactics vs Players

[jellery]

I just read a few threads here about "super tactics", getting West Brom to win the league with a 3-1-2-3-1-2-4-6-7 formation and the like. Sometimes I think yes, you can find a formation or individual tactics that give you the edge, but in my opinion, it really is down to the players at the club, and how they play together.

I used to tinker with my tactics a lot, but the way I see it is, a basic 4-4-2 can never really go wrong. I select 4-4-2 attacking at home, and maybe alter things like width and how high the defence play depending on if the strongest part of my team is my wingers, or if my defenders are fast enough. Away from home I use 4-4-2 standard, with things like width, tempo and creative freedom down a bit and counter attacking on.

Basically, I use my common sense/real life knowledge of football, instead of trying to look for loopholes like in the 2001/02 version I think you could just play really narrow and get results with rubbish players (or was it 00/01? I never tried it). Do you think the game's good enough to allow "real life" tactics to work?

But, regardless of tactics, as long as you're not doing anything stupid, I think it's far more important to listen to your assistant when he tells you about players not gelling well, having language issues etc. For example, buy a team of world class players, but if you start a new season with 6 new players in the starting lineup they are going to be very inconsistent, and you'll wonder why you aren't winning "easy" games. That said, I think if you're in say, League 2, and you sign 15 quality players who could play in the next league up, it really doesn't matter what tactics and formation you play, they're gunna win the league!

What do you guys think? As I said, I'm far more interested in the personel than the tactics - so what do you think is more importand? (or are they both equally vital?)

[heathxxx]

I'm of the opinion that so long as you're aware of what the key attributes are for each position in a tactic or formation, then sign/use the right players accordingly, then you can pretty much get any sensible tactic to work.

The 4-4-2 is probably the most widely understood and used formation, but there's a hell of a lot of variables possible in terms of the "style" you use, such as mentality, passing, tempo, etc... In all cases, if you understand what players attributes are most suitable, that's probably the main thing.

I still do tinker with tactics, but I've always got a base to work from. I often find that I will sign a variety of forward players for example, so that I can rotate them. One aspect of this approach that works well for me is to have a striker on the bench who's completely different to the one that starts. I will have different instructions for each based upon their attributes. If one isn't getting any joy against an opponent, bringing on the other usually makes the difference.

[SFraser]

I was thinking of writing a post on this very issue but never got around to it.

My personal opinion is that far too much focus is placed on generic positions, idealised roles, and ironicly tactically complex formations constructed with complete ambivalence towards players, their attributes and their on-pitch relationships. The entire tactical system of FM is a system of modifying player behaviour, so every single tactic discussed and described is a template for player behaviour. It is something of an oxymoron to discuss detailed, high control tactics without referring to specific players.

[Forkoid]

I agree with the original poster. I'm on my 8th season managing Celtic and I've had the same two (above average) central defenders since my first transfer window. They have played over 200 games as defensive partners and right now they are practically untouchable. The team conceded only 11 goals last season. (Sounds great but my keeper was on a £20 grand bonus for a clean sheet!)

12 games into this season: 2 conceded.

I think that goes to prove that on-pitch relationships are vital in this game.

To further confirm this:

I recently took over the Holland national team job and I simply used my regular Celtic tactics for the Holland team. Immediately my assistant feedback window was littered with notices of: "Ryan Babel is not used to closing opponents down" "Wesley Snider is used to playing a less direct style of play".

I've these warnings before with new signings but pretty soon they go away presumably as the player learns how the team plays.