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The Lost Season 4 thread *for episodes aired in the US/abc.com* *season 3 spoilers and a mid-season cut-off guranteed*

rosslarkin

By rosslarkin,
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Razzler

Razzler

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It's hard to tell how long it really is from her being rang up in the night to the events at the end of S3. A fortnight? I don't know. Were those scientists in the Antarctic 'just' looking for Desmond? Why were they in the Antarctic, of all places? Why were they waiting for the hatch to explode, as if they knew it would happen?

The scientist's that rung Penny are looking for the island to find Desmond on behalf of Penny (true love and all that!). They werent waiting for the hatch to explode but the hatch exploding caused a whole electro-magnetic thing and they picked it up on their satelitte stuff in the same way the electro-magnetic thing cause 815 to crash when Desmond almost didnt push the button that time.

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Statistical Approach

Statistical Approach

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Looking at it that way then....

Desmond caused everyone on 815 to come to the Island so maybe the flashes are a way of helping them leave. More likely though he has been on the Island longer than most people certainly than the surviviours. I have a theory that the islands powers effect people in different ways. For example Walt was very young and before comming to the island seemed special. Maybe that is why lots of people have see him in visions. Because he is more in touch with the island than say sawyer for example. Obviously someone like locke is an exception because he was able to work the moment he set foot on the island possible he is just special.

Richard said something to locke about the people needing to see something big to inspire them. That ben had been wasting time with fertility when the people were there for much more important reasons. That makes me think that people born on the island are no more special because surely richard would see it as very important.

The facts are though that until claire all the mothers had died and until Ben nobody had cancer. Now maybe this is inline with the crash suggendly at that time the island changed somehow got unbalanced. Ben found out a few days before the crash that he had the back problem then a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. Possibly he did that in a similar way to locke bringing his father to the island . He was very prepared with plans when it happened and also said there could be a mother onboard, obviously could of been a educated guess but still....

Again thinking out loud!

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mudweiser

mudweiser

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Originally posted by Razzler:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's hard to tell how long it really is from her being rang up in the night to the events at the end of S3. A fortnight? I don't know. Were those scientists in the Antarctic 'just' looking for Desmond? Why were they in the Antarctic, of all places? Why were they waiting for the hatch to explode, as if they knew it would happen?

The scientist's that rung Penny are looking for the island to find Desmond on behalf of Penny (true love and all that!). They werent waiting for the hatch to explode but the hatch exploding caused a whole electro-magnetic thing and they picked it up on their satelitte stuff in the same way the electro-magnetic thing cause 815 to crash when Desmond almost didnt push the button that time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But they seemed very specific. As if they knew what it was. I mean, if they were looking for Desmond - who crashed his boat, didn't he? - why would they have things to pick up electro-magnetic signals? How is that relevant to finding a shipwrecked man?

I think they, whoever they are, are more island specific. That, or they know Desmond is involved in the island, somehow.

Remind me - in S2 we see Desmond putting the numbers into the computer *just* before the magnets go mad, but it's enough to bring down the flight, right? Hmm.

I think there's something much bigger, something we can't see at the moment.

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mudweiser

mudweiser

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

what i find strange about Desmond is the man who 'took over' his boat, did Ben know about this, if not why not

I can't remember this, but was this guy Dharma still following orders? It's S2 so my memory's sketchy. The room with the tvs, which Locke broke into, was old and unused, and probably just forgotten about when Ben and co. took over. They got rid of Dharma and lived in their village, iirc they didn't really want the hatches or anything. I could be wrong.

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MixitupMixitdictator

MixitupMixitdictator

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but was this guy Dharma still following orders?

far as i can see there is 3 hatches mentioned since dharma, and russia owns one and can see the other, so i cannot understand why they can't see the other, why would ben let original hatch person just live there and invite an outsider, plus try and get away.

tbh doesn't seem like a lost plan, just a plot hole

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The_Fish

The_Fish

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

what i find strange about Desmond is the man who 'took over' his boat, did Ben know about this, if not why not

Early in season 3 they took Desmonds boat, when Sun shot one of them. That episode Ben was surprised to find they had a sail boat.

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MixitupMixitdictator

MixitupMixitdictator

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Early in season 3 they took Desmonds boat, when Sun shot one of them. That episode Ben was surprised to find they had a sail boat.

i know that but when we first get flashbacks of Desmond the man in the 'button' hatch is scheming to get off the island on Desmonds boat ALONE. But i was under the impression the others could see/had access to all the hatches (ben and julie going to the one near the plane, Mikhail having visual contact with it etc) so why was that guy left to do as he pleased

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The_Fish

The_Fish

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Early in season 3 they took Desmonds boat, when Sun shot one of them. That episode Ben was surprised to find they had a sail boat.

i know that but when we first get flashbacks of Desmond the man in the 'button' hatch is scheming to get off the island on Desmonds boat ALONE. But i was under the impression the others could see/had access to all the hatches (ben and julie going to the one near the plane, Mikhail having visual contact with it etc) so why was that guy left to do as he pleased </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They don't have cameras everywhere with hundreds of people observing them icon_smile.gif

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The_Fish

The_Fish

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

well even if he wasn't why would he try and get off alone. if he was why was he allowed to live (explanation could be no1 could be bothered to do the button from the others)

Why did they allow Desmond to live there? John? Jack?

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mudweiser

mudweiser

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Early in season 3 they took Desmonds boat, when Sun shot one of them. That episode Ben was surprised to find they had a sail boat.

i know that but when we first get flashbacks of Desmond the man in the 'button' hatch is scheming to get off the island on Desmonds boat ALONE. But i was under the impression the others could see/had access to all the hatches (ben and julie going to the one near the plane, Mikhail having visual contact with it etc) so why was that guy left to do as he pleased </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said, the room with the tv screens of inside the hatch (I forget the name of this particular hatch) where Locke finds out the button-pressing was just an experiment was old and dis-used.

Ben and co. wanted the village Dharma lived in and the hospital, so they wouldn't have bothered with the observation rooms and what not, thus not realising there was a man still in that hatch.

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Dan Baker

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Richard goes to meet Juliet (along with Ethan), and encourages her to come to the island through the front of Mittelos Bioscience.

She was recruited for a particular reason - to investigate the fertility issues on the island. Assuming other mebers of their group were recruited in a similar manner, it's plausible that Ethan was recruited due to his abilities as a surgeon, Mikhail due to his experience in communications, and Kelvin purely because of his loyalty and willingness to follow orders without question. If Kelvin fulfilled the role he was 'employed' to do, then why would there be any need to monitor him outside of the hatch? If they didn't watch him outside the hatch, then there would be no reason to think there was a boat?

With regards to the initial Dharma, the hostiles may well have seen them as intefering with the spiritual, mystical nature of the island - when in control themselves, investigation into what Dharma were doing may have led them to understand that there was benefit to what they were doing, and some of the experiments had their merits - if controlled in the correct way.

That probably sounds as clear as mud, but I know what I'm trying to say.

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Statistical Approach

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Or maybe the Hostiles just didn't like people pitching up on their island. That's why they kept trying to invade the camp. See scene with young ben in class room, the teachers seemed very prepared for that to happen. This must of continued until the day Richard found Ben in the jungle, he will of seen this as an ideal chance to infultrate dharma. Also when Ben kills his own father. Has anyone ever thought it was more than the fact he hated his dad, maybe Richard told him to do it as a sacrifice. Just as Ben forced locke.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Button pressing wasnt an experiment though, had to be done to release that electro magnetic charge. Locke thought it was.

Yeah, those scientist guys offshore seemed to be searching for something. Not sure if they knew it was an electro-magnetic charge that allowed the island to be "visible" to them but something in their equipment went off.

It's all related to Penny which is tied into her father and Widmore so she's defo tied into how people are getting onto this island in some way, or her dad is anyway.

Maybe Widmore represnetatives are on the boat ?

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What about young ben's girlfriend, she was never seen dead was she? Just he closed the eyes of the guy who brought him to the island. I thought they would of made a big deal of it. Seeing as Ben was incontrol from inside of dharma ie- none of the hostiles could effect dharma thats why ben was needed. It makes me think he could of told anyone he wanted that it was happening and to get out of there and hide or whatever.

Also did ben supply the kit ie- gas masks/gas ? otherwise where did they get it from. The way richard was dressed when we first see him didnt suggest they were living in caves.

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mudweiser

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

but was the button pressing just an experiment, obviously not IMO. Seems stupid to me they just let him live on island

What? That Ben and co let him live?

I'm saying that they might not know he's there. Read what I've put earlier.

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That hatch was completely hidden though wasn't it. Neither entrance was apparent early on in the show. I assume it wasn't on any map either. But saying that the looking glass was on a map and that was obviously meant to be well hidden. Maybe Ben new all about it and decided to do nothing because that way things would seem normal from within the hatch.

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Razzler

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Has anyone ever thought it was more than the fact he hated his dad, maybe Richard told him to do it as a sacrifice. Just as Ben forced locke.

When Ben returned though he was kinda dishing out orders. Richard asked if he wanted them to get the body and he said "leave him there". Defo a story in how he got to be "leader" though.

Forgot about the whole "attacks" thing when they were in the classroom though. Seems there was something going on before the purge. Who's idea was the purge ? If they could do that why didnt they do it before during these "attacks" ? Surely, Ben's hippies couldnt hold them off if they wanted to take them ?

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mudweiser

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I'd say a map does exist, somewhere. But I'd say Ben knew all about the hatches anyway with his time there, he knew about the Looking Glass, for instance, despite it being underwater.

I think he just chose to forget about the button hatch, maybe knowing it was an experiement and not worth the effort. Or maybe he knew there was one soul in there pushing the button, so why bother him ?

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Originally posted by Razzler:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Has anyone ever thought it was more than the fact he hated his dad, maybe Richard told him to do it as a sacrifice. Just as Ben forced locke.

When Ben returned though he was kinda dishing out orders. Richard asked if he wanted them to get the body and he said "leave him there". Defo a story in how he got to be "leader" though.

Forgot about the whole "attacks" thing when they were in the classroom though. Seems there was something going on before the purge. Who's idea was the purge ? If they could do that why didnt they do it before during these "attacks" ? Surely, Ben's hippies couldnt hold them off if they wanted to take them ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah the way Ben dealt with the situation could of just been him trying to make locke look weak in front of the group. As for the attacks I think Ben was the key to the purge he was the 'inside man' I think he set dharma up for a fall. He was say 14 max when he arrived by the time he was appointed as a 'workman' he would know quite a bit about the general setup. Surely enough to make an attack a lot smoother. I think that would be a good storyline for next season. Showing more Ben flashback's from after he first met richard upto the crash.

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mudweiser

mudweiser

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Originally posted by Anton:

But it wasnt an experiment....

The pushing of the buttons? Yes it was. "You are observing an experiment taking place. The subjects are not aware of their involvment." That's what the Dharma scientist says on the video of the observatory which watches the hatch.

Now I'm watching through S3 again, it's ALL about Locke. I'm sure of it. I think he's right. Everyone was brought to the island for a reason, each one has their own qualities to do something... and Locke sits at the top of the tree.

I hope I'm wrong, because I'd like a more logical, realistic explanation to it all.

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MixitupMixitdictator

MixitupMixitdictator

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The pushing of the buttons? Yes it was. "You are observing an experiment taking place. The subjects are not aware of their involvment." That's what the Dharma scientist says on the video of the observatory which watches the hatch.

but it wasn't at the same time because it caused the electro magnetic shenanigans that brought down the plane. Preventing that isn't a psychological experiment!

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RedRob

RedRob

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Originally posted by mudweiser:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

But it wasnt an experiment....

The pushing of the buttons? Yes it was. "You are observing an experiment taking place. The subjects are not aware of their involvment." That's what the Dharma scientist says on the video of the observatory which watches the hatch.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because the scientist said that on the video doesnt mean that is the case. Could just as easily be an experiment on the people who were watching and recording everything people did in that station, seeing as the diarys were left in a massive pile unread.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

can't wait for answers what the heck Richard and co were doing on Island anyway

The fact he doesnt seem to age possibly hints that he's part of the island's original inhabitants that are mentioned in passing by other characters. Why they maybe dont age is interesting and also he can come and go as he pleases as he helping to recruit Juliette.

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Razzler

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Of course the other hatch said you are watching an experiment and what you are doing is really important in the same way the pushing of the button was the most important as well.

We know that the button wasnt an experiment as they explained the build up of electro-magnetic pressure and the button relieved it and not pushing it blew the thing up !

It would seem the 'other' observation hatch was some kind of experiment though. Who knows if Others were reading those reports and the fact there was a pile meant they moved on ... does that make it any less important to read them though ? Even if they moved on surely they'd still need to read them if it was important ?

I think of the two, the observation is more likely to be an experiment considering the evidence at hand.

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MixitupMixitdictator

MixitupMixitdictator

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finished s1 last night, another daft 'nothing' i am interested in is when Locke is being sucked into the ground by the smoke, it seems like the underneath of the island is all 'hollow' probably nothing but what kinda piece of land has no real undergrowth.

Danielle in s1 says how she never meant to come 2 the island the numbers brought her. Why were they on the hatch also?

Great how Walt only knew about the hatch from John Locke's touch, then when Michael says 'we don't have to go' he chillingly says we do....

Kinda obvious Michael and Walt will be with the people who are now coming to the island, Michael thinking it to be a good thing (i believe he's the dude in the coffin)

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Danielle in s1 says how she never meant to come 2 the island the numbers brought her. Why were they on the hatch also?

Didn't she say something like the ship picked up a transmission of the numbers, the ship then got into trouble etc. I'm not sure but I think that is why she created her own message from the radio tower. The numbers obviously play a big part because they have brought Danielle and her boat crew and also Hurley.

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