4-4-2 formation (the one that saw Keirrison score 125 goals)

[mesterton]

Hi Santy001, could you please upload again, or maybe use a different filesharing place, because the limit of only 10 downloads really runs out fast :-)

[polistus]

Here they are, original files with changed names only

santy_normal.tac - 1018 bytes

santy_deeper.tac - 992 bytes

I'm still testing them but I can already say that my Arsenal team gains initiative with the 'normal' version against stronger sides such as FC Barcelona and Manchester United and Chelsea. However, I have used other tactics as well, so I haven't reached the final verdict yet.

[dempseyslob]

Great tactic.

[santy001]

Thanks, and yea some people were having problems with the initial upload sites and I couldn't find any others that were as suitable other than rapidshare with the 10 dl limit. You'll have to let me know how you're getting on in your saves and any standout results. With the first normal/attacking tactic, I've been able to take teams like Chelsea, Liverpool etc by storm.

[polistus]

Could anybody upload santy_normal.tac - 1018 bytes tactic again? I tried this tactic for a while with great success against big teams home and away. Unfortunately I managed to delete this one and now I get HTTP Error 500. I would like to use it again. Sorry for this trouble.

[John23]

I was looking for a new tactic for Macclesfield halfway through season two as I got offered the job with them not sitting pretty in the league. Tried a few random tactics in the first few games and felt a 4-4-2 would be best, so decided to try this one.

I have only played the one game and was shocked but can see how this tactic could work for the team with a few minor tweaks.

Half time = Brentford 5 - Macclesfield 0

Tweak = Dropped the defensive line back a lot

Full time = Brentford 6 - Macclesfield 2

So i still didn't win the match but a 2-1 win in the second half is something to build on and thats not mentioning it was an away fixture agaisnt a Brentford team who are in 1st place.

One thing I was wondering is about PPM. Looking at my players none of them have any and I guess that this is because of the quality of the players in league two. Is it possible to teach players them and if so, how?

[polistus]

Any chance of getting it (because the first link does not work for me any more but the tactic is one of my favourites)? Thanks!

[santy001]

You teach players these things through player interaction, they won't always learn them, but if they do it makes them more effective. If you took over midseason then, I doubt morale is high. Poor morale, playing gung ho against opposition with little time in training with this tactic does mean its going to struggle to work well, however, I've been able to dominate swedish lower leagues, the BSS and BSP and league 2 with this tactic with wimbledon then later gateshead. You also need the players that fit it, which obviously scale down the standards for the league, but a striker with 13/14 pace and good finishing/composure can finish up with 30 goals a season easily.

Polistus, if you know a site I can upload it to that works for you, I will put it there, different people seem to only be able to access different ones.

[polistus]

http://www.mediafire.com/ and http://www.zshare.net/ should work for me. When I uploaded them in June, I checked these links but now I'm having trouble with the first one. It's really quite embarassing that you must upload them twice. Nevertheless, your tactics seem to work brilliantly against big teams, and I'm grateful for that!

[santy001]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2e9910120920733ad1014a7a667fa2b4e04e75f6e8ebb871 There's the link for the first tactic, hopefully it works for you.

[Wayne\'o]

by the look sof thos high scoring games it's a case of scoring as much as possible and more so that your oppnents score, so to use it you would need worl dclass attacking players, it seems lose at the back bu ti guess if your winning who cares right?

[eltjon]

by the look sof thos high scoring games it's a case of scoring as much as possible and more so that your oppnents score' date=' so to use it you would need worl dclass attacking players, it seems lose at the back bu ti guess if your winning who cares right?[/quote']

santy, i love your tactic...i tested it with my Real GALACTICOS,and it work very very good....

...for the target man, should i put Benzema in the TGM list or no ?!

[polistus]

Thank you very much!

[John23]

After further use of this tactic I have had to stop using it. I played another 9 games and W-1, D-1 and lost 7 . With fear of relegation looming i thought it best to change to a tactic where I can pick up the odd point and maybe avoid the drop to non-league.

If anyone has any advice of how to use this tactic for the lower leagues it would be nice to have as I would like to use it wether my Macclesfield team is in League 2 or the BSP next season.

[santy001]

I wouldnt suggest putting benzema in the targetman list, but it may very well work, it's worth experimenting with in a couple of easy games to see the result.

Wayne, with a bad defence indeed it does become all about trying to outscore your opponents, I think in one season I scored 94 and conceded 72 or something, finishing in the top 6. But signing some good defenders, who are reasonably quick allows you to play the high line, otherwise it needs dropping a few notches to take into consideration slower defences.

John, your problem may be pitch sizes, in league 2, slow defenders pushed high up the pitch where there is a lot of space means you will likely get caught out. I make my pitch as small as possible by the leagues standards, you will also want pacey forwards, you can sign strikers in lower leagues with 14/15 pace and 10 finishing, and they will do the job. Try to get strong centrebacks, and quick wingers, it requires a lot of pace going forward to get this tactic working, not necessarily great creative players - as I limit their creativity enormously - loaning in players from divisions above is a good way to get going in the lower leagues.

If you really would like me to, upload your save, I'll download it have a look tell you what line-up I think you should use and a few potential signings.

[polistus]

Santy001, I have a question regarding my assistant manager's advice that we should not have more than one player marking each post on corners. Is this an integral part of the tactic or something you have overlooked? Obviously, the more men defending the better, I guess...

Secondly, should I tweak the tactic while playing according to what my assistant says or I see? I mean things like closing down certain players, showing onto weaker foot, etc. I'm a little afraid of its detrimental effect on your otherwise superb tactic against big clubs of the world.

Thanks!

[santy001]

Showing players onto weaker or off foot can work, and I did it heavily in the early seasons with stoke when I was underdog. If you change things as the asst manager says, you'll be changing them all game - I tried it and he just keeps coming up with them, its a flawed system at the moment.

The two players on the posts makes it very difficult for opposing teams to get players close to the keeper to challenge him and to get on the end of balls dropping around the goalmouth, it makes the team hard to get through on corners. However, there is little that can be done in any case against the ball being gotten out, then a wonder shot from 20 - 30 yards going in after a corner, but its been an incredibly long time since a team beat my defence in the air and got a goal other than a long range effort.

[eltjon]

santy, help....the tactic worked only fore some match (4-5). now it don't work, i have a dream team with my real

casilias

ramos pepe mexes marcelo

C.ronaldo de rossi Kaka guardado

benzema villa

...and now i can't win or win more than 1-0 or maximum 2-0.....this isn'y possible!!!!! how can your keirrison score more than 100+ goals and my villa-Benzema only 6 in two....???

[santy001]

Neither Benzema or Villa possess enormous amounts of pace, as real madrid you should easily be able to afford a player called Nilmar. Keirrison had 18 pace on my save, the fact he could always break through defences in the blink of an eye. Nilmar has 19/20, bring him on after 60 minutes and he will probably score quite a few. Loaded up a save, and neither one of the two have any real strength which means they're going to struggle to overpower defenders, ideally you want a player upfront with about 17+ strength, the ability to win aerial balls etc which Benzema isn't going to be capable of really.

I'm not sure how far in you are, but I can tell you guardado isn't the greatest of left wingers to start the game, and ronaldo despite all his stats, isn't that great a winger he tends to work better in the middle or upfront in my experience, particularly with this tactic (was manager of portugal, and he was completely useless on the wings for me).

Also, whilst you have a team of big-name players and are real madrid Keirrison scored 160 goals for me when I'd assembled a team of players around him, the majority of my squad were regens then, and all play went to Keirrison. I bought him back not long ago on my save, he's 31 now played 22 scored 60. My team rarely have anything below 20 shots a game, to the point there has been up to 45 shots a game sometimes.

[eltjon]

santy, if i want to start a new game, what are the best team for this tactic...top team and lower team?....thanks.

[santy001]

Depending on how low you're looking, within reason at BSP/BSN/BSS level really you can take any team, go to them buy a strong striker, a quick striker and strong defenders all on frees on low wages because it's easy to get players at that level.

Arsenal are a good shout for this tactic, Adebayor/Van Persie with Arshavin/Vela upfront. Quick fullbacks, they'd need an out and out right winger adding but wouldn't be a bad call.

Inter would be very good, I can see Adriano & Ibrahimovic working well in this tactic, Maicon and Maxwell provide pace from the back, got a good variety of experience, holding players and pace throughout the team.

Barca would be good if you could get someone strong upfront, then alternate Eto and Henry with him.

Bayern have an ultimate targetman in Toni, Klose would be good for the first season or two, but would need replacing shortly after.

There's some other teams out there that are good as well, but any team with the right recruitment, training and PPM's should be able to adapt to it quite comfortably. It will take more than a couple of months for a team to truly settle into a formation, it takes a long time, and given the tactics intensity in training, the level of tactic training coaches etc it will take longer.

A thing of paramount importance is your shooting coach in my opinion, some teams I've had a very poor shooting coach, so even though I've had great players they've been quite impotent upfront due to a lack of good coaching.

[eltjon]

Depending on how low you're looking, within reason at BSP/BSN/BSS level really you can take any team, go to them buy a strong striker, a quick striker and strong defenders all on frees on low wages because it's easy to get players at that level.

Arsenal are a good shout for this tactic, Adebayor/Van Persie with Arshavin/Vela upfront. Quick fullbacks, they'd need an out and out right winger adding but wouldn't be a bad call.

Inter would be very good, I can see Adriano & Ibrahimovic working well in this tactic, Maicon and Maxwell provide pace from the back, got a good variety of experience, holding players and pace throughout the team.

Barca would be good if you could get someone strong upfront, then alternate Eto and Henry with him.

Bayern have an ultimate targetman in Toni, Klose would be good for the first season or two, but would need replacing shortly after.

There's some other teams out there that are good as well, but any team with the right recruitment, training and PPM's should be able to adapt to it quite comfortably. It will take more than a couple of months for a team to truly settle into a formation, it takes a long time, and given the tactics intensity in training, the level of tactic training coaches etc it will take longer.

A thing of paramount importance is your shooting coach in my opinion, some teams I've had a very poor shooting coach, so even though I've had great players they've been quite impotent upfront due to a lack of good coaching.

ok santy...i'm going to start with Arsenal...

for the right winger i will buy Camoranesi (if i can!!)...for the left, zhirkov (if i can....)

i use the Darkstarr....the last question: what tipe of PPM for every position?!?!

FBs, MFd MFa,Wingers, Forward...?

thank for the replies

(sorry for my bad english....)

[santy001]

My wingers have:

Runs with ball down (left for left winger, right for right)

Try to beat offside trap

Try killer balls

Pacey striker has:

Runs through centre

Try to beat offside trap

Get forward whenever possible

It's best to just look what you want the player to do, I mean this formation can facilitate players crossing or cutting inside, as can it accomodate full backs who push forward and overlap or staying back.

The general theme is to instruct them to their side, get forward when they can etc.

[eltjon]

santy i have some news:

finished the 2nd season. my first 11 are

adler

sagna gallas toure clichy

camoranesi lucho gonzalez fabregas zhirkov

adebayor love

win 2 premier league, 2 carling cup,and 2 other cup...lost in champions semifinal against real and barca.

1st season best goleador gallas (21)

2nd season best goleador love (29)

(2 simulated season, i used ever the same formation)

can you post your save, i want to see how your keirrison is going to score more than 100 goal per season. please, if you can, post it.

[santy001]

If you're simulating the season that is one problem, you're not doing team talks yourself, you're not making changes when they need to be made etc as you're leaving it all down to your assistant manager. Also, you're playing with an Arsenal team at a time when the premiership isn't diluted down like it is when Keirrison has been scoring this many, and despite the fact all the players you have are good, they aren't going to be as good as my side of regens. Later on I'll put up screenshots, I don't have a great connection, and I uploaded my save for someone before, and it took 6 hours without me using the internet at all, which I don't fancy doing too much again unless I have a fair bit of free time on my hands.

[santy001]

Here's the screenshots of my first 11:

[santy001]

Back 4 (rb, cb, cb, lb):

[santy001]

Midfield (RM, CM, CM, LM):

[santy001]

Strikers (Targetman, Pacey striker):

[LFC-Stevie G]

is your squad all regens

[eltjon]

is your squad all regens

santy, i edited the PPM of my arsenal player (3rd season) like your.....yes,go better but my 2 striker score 1-2 in 7-8 matchs.....i don't know.....i think you are luky with your keirrison that score 100+ goals in one season.

if ypu try to start a new season, foe example with Arsenal, how goals score Adebayor, van persie or vela with your tactic....??

[eltjon]

....sorry santy, but......is this tactic for 9.3 patch ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

(if it is, can you upload your training schedule, if you can please??)

[santy001]

I'll upload my training schedules next chance I get when I'm on that computer, it's hard to give an absolute answer to these questions but yes it works really quite well on 9.3 you need a team that works together well, and one thing that plays a huge role is team talks, morale and as I said, a shooting/attacking/tactics coach. All my coaching staff are at 7 stars now, it's taken several years to assemble after the changes in patch 9.3

It's mentioned earlier, but I also made use of the ingame attribute weighting system, by training a young striker to competent in central midfield, and central defence you free up more of his PA/CA to develop attributes to make him better as a player. There are so many factors on this game it is hard to list them all, even manager reputation plays a part. As well as player attitudes and a variety of other things that at this late an hour I can't remember.

[displaced_seagull]

If I was just playing at home, I would win the league. Unfortunatley, Away success has been limited;

Managing Brighton;

Played; 17 (Competitive)

Home;

Won; 8

Lost; 0

Drawn; 1

Scored; 21

Conceded; 4

Away;

Won; 1

Drawn; 1

Lost; 5

Scored; 7

Conceded; 18

[santy001]

There has been a second tactic made available on here, that is more defensive it basically just changes a few of the sliders to accomodate playing away from home. It's at the top of this page, if you can't download it from there, tell me somewhere you know works and I'll put it up on there for you.

[displaced_seagull]

There has been a second tactic made available on here, that is more defensive it basically just changes a few of the sliders to accomodate playing away from home. It's at the top of this page, if you can't download it from there, tell me somewhere you know works and I'll put it up on there for you.

Thought that was the same tactic with a deeper defensive line?

[santy001]

It is, and I think there's one or two other tweaks on some personal instructions, but when using it away it's worthwhile switching more to a neutral mentality, and deeper defensive line. I had two versions of it, I can't remember which I uploaded and which was most effective now lol.

[polistus]

It is, and I think there's one or two other tweaks on some personal instructions, but when using it away it's worthwhile switching more to a neutral mentality, and deeper defensive line. I had two versions of it, I can't remember which I uploaded and which was most effective now lol.

Should counter attacking also be enabled?

[santy001]

You can try it, I only made these initial changes without using counter attacking and it worked relatively well for me, allowing me to contain the likes of man utd, chelsea etc then in the latter stages of the game push the mentality up to attacking, and passing style to more direct or switch to the main tactic because by then they're not expecting your team to come out at them.

I've gone back to my other stoke save, and there's players in that team which are still in the game, and have gotten me to 6th in the premiership with wins over Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool so far this season. A top 4 finish is possible, and this is in 2012 only problem really has been considering I'm at Stoke, every 6 months I lose key players, and have to replace them which is the only thing holding my side back.

Examples of this are:

Season 1: Buy Mota, Chairman sells at start of season 2.

Season 2: Buy Andres D'Alessandro (Works excellent in this tactic), Chairman sells at start of season 3.

Season 3: Buy Nilmar (also works excellent), Chairman sells in January of season 3.

Season 3: Buy Riquelme, Chairman sells in season 4.

Season 4: Buy Marquinhos (another excellent signing for this tactic on either wing), Chairman sells January of season 4.

As well as selling players like Tom Soares (a surprising revelation for me at Stoke, became a great right winger) over my head, so my player turnover rate is incredibly high and is holding me back, I can't keep finding good replacements for players and it's catching up. But, yea, once this season is over I'll put up screenshots of this team for people to see.

[eltjon]

santy, for me the secret are the PPM...!!!!!!!!

i edited the PPM of my team in this mehod:

st: drible center,shot with power,place shot,lob keeoer,drible keeper, shot out area

wg: drible right\left, go on if possible,killer balls,try tricks

mc: go on if possible,killer balls,shot with power, shot from out,dictat tempo

fb: go on if possible, drible right left

cb: stay back

in 10 games love score 16, adebayor 10, keirrison 3 in 2 match (injured 4 months), fabregas 8

i change the corner routine to adebayor, go to the keeper

now i hawe all 7 star coachs, but i train all in general and keeper in keeoer....

all now work.....!!!!!

for me the secret of all tactics are the PPM. try a tactic normaly and try after with the ppm, it's completly different!

santy, if you can, can i see your team PPM...??

thank a lot, and sorry for my bad bad bad english

[santy001]

That save is on my laptop now, which has been sent off for repairs (cracked screen) when I get it back, I'll have a look through see if there is anything stand worth putting up, but its hard to try it without then with, but yea you will find some PPM's do help players performances shoot up enormously.

[Rocky14]

Ive just started using this tactic in september of my 6th season as man city. Not because I was struggling (won league 4 times in a row plus champs league, fa cup and league cup a few times each) but because I saw the 125 goals for Keirrison and couldnt resist. Im now in january and despite playing quite well am not having the success with my strikers. My strikers were Aguero, Bojan, Love and Hulk. Who in previous seasons all scored a good amount of goals, but in this formation all struggled. In january i sold Hulk and Love and brought in Mylevskiy for the targetman role and Balotelli as the pacey striker( he has at least 15 in finishing, composure, off the ball, first touch, acceleration, pace and strength). Do you recommend leaving the 2 strikers settings as what they currently are or changing them slightly? Ive made Balotelli have a slightly more attacking mentality and put milevskiy on mixed through balls instead of rarely and it seems to have improved it slghtly.

I also am now conceding quite a few more goals, in my last season I only conceded 11 in the league but this year have conceded 16 by january. Do you suggest a small or large pitch? because reading through the thread you mention both?

thanks for any help in advance, on the whole im doing very well with the tactic, just want to tweak it to ty and get loads of goals for my striker

[santy001]

It depends how confident you are in your defence and how pacey they are, as well as their other defensive abilities such as positioning, concentration etc. If they are high in all the key areas, you can play well on a larger pitch, but in general keeping to a small helps out.

It will also take time for your team to settle into the tactic, depending on what you were playing before, this may be a big change for your players and it can take players - from my experience - up to a season to settle into a tactic. Depending upon their age, versatility, the previous tactic, determination, training, the level of your coaches and a host of other things.

For example, even a highly versatile player, will struggle to adjust from say 5-3-2 to 4-4-2 if your tactics coach is 1 star and he only has 1 or 2 notches for tactics training. My full backs, defenders and defensive mids have high tactic training, with CM's and AM's on medium.

[Rooney_08]

yo mate you said in a previous post you are still testing that other tactic any update on it...........and just let you know im still using my tweaked version of your original tactic and its the best by far but all thanks to you santy you the man

[santy001]

I'm still making minor tweaks here and there trying to get more out of my players. It worked exceptionally well last season (my team scored 241 in the league and Keirrison got 170 goals for the club, and another 32 for Brazil at 33. This season though, I've still had exceptional results - just not as great as last season.

Post your tweaked version up, I'll happily give it a shot.

[ps2xboxgamecube]

I'm still making minor tweaks here and there trying to get more out of my players. It worked exceptionally well last season (my team scored 241 in the league and Keirrison got 170 goals for the club, and another 32 for Brazil at 33. This season though, I've still had exceptional results - just not as great as last season.

Post your tweaked version up, I'll happily give it a shot.

Which is the version you use then santy, is that uploaded on here?? The 241 leagues goals is that on a new game in 9.3 or a game carried over fro 9.2??

Thanks.

[santy001]

It's carried over from 9.2 with 9.3 applied after, I have started another on 9.3 and been quite successful, but not gotten that far into it yet mainly because of a thread with Nepenthez not too long ago got me back into this save to try and get a player to make 1,000 career appearances, and get my other prodigal striker to 1000 career goals.

[dave byrd]

Starting using this tactic with my new club Milan purely to get my main striker to score lots of goals (as per the thread title) as the tactic i was using for my old teams already made them unbeatable.

I'll post an update of him at the end of the season.

[dave byrd]

So this is him at the end of the season, not bad. He would have scored loads more but missed two months due to injury and only played in 28 league games as you can see.

Milan did the domestic double and lost in the semis of the UEFA Cup (only took over at the start of the season, they were crap the year before and didn't qualify for the CL) so tactic did ok for me. Might continue with it next season too.

[santy001]

Nice to see you got so many goals from a striker with relatively low pace. Other than that, he also has the perfect stats for the left striker as well as targetman. I'd do a search for a player similar to him, just swap the strength for pace and acceleration.