FM08 - The "Sliders" Project

[heathxxx]

Following the amount of posts in my recent topic - Creative Freedom... Use Sparingly! - I'm thinking of starting a series of topics that are aimed at addressing each of the sliders in FM08.

It's my belief that this is possibly the most difficult area of understanding for many people.

The aim is twofold - to clean up the forum of lots of individual posts, and to provide a singular source of good information, help and discussion for each of the sliders.

The other alternative is to have one main topic, which discusses all the sliders, given that they do work in tandem with one another.

Let me know your thoughts about how useful such a set of topics would be, so I can see if it's worth me setting up.

Cleon and Rashidi1 - your thoughts with this would be appreciated.

[heathxxx]

Following the amount of posts in my recent topic - Creative Freedom... Use Sparingly! - I'm thinking of starting a series of topics that are aimed at addressing each of the sliders in FM08.

It's my belief that this is possibly the most difficult area of understanding for many people.

The aim is twofold - to clean up the forum of lots of individual posts, and to provide a singular source of good information, help and discussion for each of the sliders.

The other alternative is to have one main topic, which discusses all the sliders, given that they do work in tandem with one another.

Let me know your thoughts about how useful such a set of topics would be, so I can see if it's worth me setting up.

Cleon and Rashidi1 - your thoughts with this would be appreciated.

[Flyingdutchman]

I would give every slider a thread of their own

[Hawshiels]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flyingdutchman:

I would give every slider a thread of their own </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree

Some of the sliders are very straight forward and require little explanation or debate. The creative freedom slider was a great example of a misunderstood tactical option and it is similar sliders that require the greatest attention - and hence a different thread for each one would be most appropriate.

I posted over on the original "Creative freedom" thread that I wanted to see more done about the closing down slider but that I wasn't sure if it was appropriate until after the patch - since I really think this is one area that will be changed (tweaked) by SI for the patch.

The main sliders that would be most worthwhile are in order:

- Closing down

It's simple enough in theory but there are many attributes that impact the effectiveness of this as well as it's effectiveness (or lack of) based on other slider settings such as positioning and mentality.

- Tempo

I've found this to be a very useful slider but I get some strange effects with it now and again and I don't fully understand why. Again I think it is worth discussion and debate since I've heard many people suggest that it is how quickly the players pass the ball to each other. This is not necessarily the case if you have players set to run with ball or to have "through balls - often" - in which case, the tempo dictates how quickly the ball is moved forward ?!?

- Free role

This is very useful if used correctly. I'm not using it completely effectively yet but then I'm not sure what the attributes are that affect how well it works.

Finally, can I make a suggestion that now and again in each thread, you have a summary of what we think we've learned by that stage. For example, what attributes are key, under what circumstances the slider, etc is important. I realise this is a lot of work so perhaps one of the other guys would take this on but if we are to have a really useful thread, it may be useful for them to take a look down the thread and only read these bolded posts that contain the summary information. Maybe?

10/10 for your commitment to this heathxxx. As I've said before, I really enjoy the discussion and am happy to input based on my experience and findings but I'm not best placed to be the one giving advice.

[r0x0r]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawshiels:

- Tempo

I've found this to be a very useful slider but I get some strange effects with it now and again and I don't fully understand why. Again I think it is worth discussion and debate since I've heard many people suggest that it is how quickly the players pass the ball to each other. This is not necessarily the case if you have players set to run with ball or to have "through balls - often" - in which case, the tempo dictates how quickly the ball is moved forward ?!?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what i understand, Tempo is "Hey, we've got the ball. How quickly shall we turn it into a shot?"

Of course, this will usually mean passing the ball fast, as the ball mvoes faster than a player. However, with a player who's been told to run with the ball, "get it up field for a shot fast" means "lets dribble forward", as that's what you've told him to do with the ball. For a winger with deep crossing it may mean "Hoof it into the area now", and for a striker it may mean "shoot first time".

[Loversleaper]

I would agree that it would be helpful to many if there were discussions regarding the sliders, the only concern I would have (maybe just a personal oppinion) is what kind of input it could accumulate. Last year, for example, there was so much imput (and not all correct, I might add) that in many ways it caused a mass confusion. Who is to say who is going to be right in these matters?

The only advice I could give is try to keep things simple. You are going to have to establish an idea of which directions the sliders move to make 'attacking or defending mindsets' which is the basic idea behind the whole match-machine. And then move forward from there. You are going to incounter, at one point, that if anybody is going to be so bold as to try and make 'match tests' with the sliders that they actually first really become transparent when people discover which slider has to be moved in conjunction with which other slider to make the effect that one is looking for.

For this to work you have to have an overall gameplan, and what I mean by this is in the form of 'are we stronger than our opponent so we should attack?' or 'are we weaker than our opponent so we should defend?' (in general terms, but there are always a few exceptions and on top of this is an issue of being realistic). Lots of things come into play when assessing these issues: Manager ratings (+addaption & reputation), coaches (+addaption & reputation), players (+addaption & CA/PA), training regimes, ect...

I'm sure many haven't figured out to start with that these mentioned issues above have a big impact on the game. Before your team is actually playing the way you had intended there has to be some sort of descipline (or higher manager rating) and to some extent how good your players are at addapting (foreigners take much longer than local lads) so that your players are actually following the tactical plan that you have established (and this could actually take some or a lot of time). This is the main reason that some of you have read posts where people complain that a player/s doesn't do what he/they had been instructed to do.

I know that a lot of people are going to have different ideas on how the sliders should move and in conjuction with which other slider, so at one point you are going to have to ask yourself 'is passing vertical or horisontal?' and then the can of worms is opened.

Things also cannot be 'set in stone' (as wwfan would say) because if you look at the tempo issue, for example, it has no 'magical position' that makes your tactics successful. If you ever try to do the following: Low tempo plus high time wasting and then after try high tempo with low time wasting you will quickly see that it works in conjunction with your overall game plan during the match (garding or chasing?). But should you have these sliders always appart? the answer would be *NO*...

[heathxxx]

Thanks for the feedback so far. This is why I posed the question in the first place.

I'm perhaps leaning towards one main thread, for people to discuss the use of all the sliders. (And perhaps Hawshiels, a "tickbox" section )

Loversleaper - I understand what you mean. Because the sliders are inter-linked, one thread for each might mean each thread is basically discussing the same thing in the end. Someone asks the question - "If I have creative freedom set to X, what's the best setting for run-with-ball...", etc...

Perhaps an overview of each slider and tickbox, perhaps quoting the game manual for a start, then discussions regarding the mixture of uses of the sliders, plus help, advice and our own experiences and findings.

Someone will have to either send me the manual quotes in English, or post them for me, as my manual and game is the Spanish boxed version. My Spanish is ok, but not THAT brilliant that I could translate it accurately. (It was a nightmare trying to get the English.ltc language file for the game to run in English.)

The overall aim with a sliders topic is that it would be a good enough source of information that can be added to the "Tactics Bible", that everyone can use for help, with FM08 it's patches and future releases of FM, providing SI don't come up with something completely different.

[Loversleaper]

First of all, I wouldn't take the words in the manual literly. FM07 tactics worked a lot differently than what was stated in the manual (Abramovic's AI Tactics thread revieled that), but SI have moved more in the direction of correcting some of the issues in the latest version of FM (FM08). For example 'Global' ideologies work much better in this version than FM07 and they have toned down some of the settings that were needed to make successful tactics back then. I, personally, think people will make much more progress if they give tried and tested 'theories' accompanied by comprehendable, simple results because the sliders in realty are quite straight forward. 'Tactical meltdowns' are caused by contradicting instructions and this is the main cause for failing tactics (especially when the AI starts to play tactical against you). I don't think that SI are going to come up with something totally different, but they will be fine-tuning some of the aspects in the game which could result in making some of the human users' tactical outlooks more successful...

[skallez]

Come on, really?

Having one slider for each topic is totally pointless, for example does tempo and passing connects, and so does alot of your settings...

There is already loads of topic about the sliders, so stop making them.

[skallez]

Here;

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=2101905...932099192#7932099192

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/3632074782

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/9972005362

[Loversleaper]

With all due respect, skallez, those posts are pretty much outdated (and no harm is intended on asmodeus, mille or wwfan as many of my own personal ideologies originated from these mentioned users) although some of it can still be relavent. FM07 worked a little differently than it does in FM08 and on top of that many of the newcomers won't recognise those mentioned posts. FM08 has become more 'refined' compared to FM07, so the explainations of them could use a little upgrading or at least some debate.

The point of this forum is to seek gaming help or to offer it. The forum these days lack interresting topics and new ideas actually should be encouraged, as there are not so many new ideas/theories/explainations around worth debating which is much needed if gamers are going to understand the direction that the FM series are taking us. Good topics are hard to come by as many don't have the time or energy (although I have a feeling that this might change after the new patch is released).

There are many that don't understand the sliders and what needs to be done to make the tactical effect that they are looking for, so I couldn't agree more with the fact that this needs to be addressed (not for all, of course). There are some few really good posts around but some people actually needs to be pointed in the right direction. Topics like this one can easily help many as long as the fundamentals in this game are taken into consideration (which I was trying to point out in my first statement in this thread). One must crawl before one walks...

[Mitja]

I don't understand how can a discussion like this harm anyone. more I wonder that, it seems like not many are interested in thread.

so I got one question and I think it's important. does player mentality over rides team? are these two different things.

[heathxxx]

I think then that the best direction, as I had already started to think during the original post, is that a sort of "one stop shop" thread about all the slider settings is the way forward.

As I've said, the aim will be to discuss the sliders in relation to given styles of play, different tactical sets, different situations during a game, etc...

There will be misunderstandings occasionally, but as I think we all (well mostly! ) agree, working with the sliders can be complex and confusing. It can take a long time and alot of tweeking to get some sort of "working" system going with your tactics.

Therefore I'll look at starting a proper thread, just the one, which will begin by looking at the roles of each slider, why they're there and what they're useful for.

From there it's over to the masses. The aim would be that once we understand the range and effect of the sliders, we can discuss, experiment, offer advice, help, and share our thoughts in general.

The benefits I believe will be many, not only for us understanding the game ourselves, but for SI in seeing how we play the game. Through good threads, I'm sure they are able to learn also, then make improvements/changes for future patches and releases.

I'll see if I can get the ball rolling properly tomorrow, so keep an eye out for it.

In the meantime - take a look at this <CLICK> and ponder how you could get your sliders to stop it happening

[Loversleaper]

Mitja: I don't think that people are not interrested in participating in discussions, I just think that people these days don't take time to learn this game in the same fashion as learning to play some of the other advanced games on the market, and this is due to the fact that previous FM/CM games were always 'a walk in the park'. People just want to win, and this could be accomplished with some very easy programming.

I know just as many people wanting a challenge and would hate to go back to the days of super tactics and easy winnings as where is the fun in that? Let's say if I was a huge, strong 200cm boxer weighing 100kgs I could easily beat up a 100cm midget weighing 40kgs, but after a while you have got to ask yourself if you are making any personal progress because things are now a little one sided. You start dreaming of going to the big fights and making a name for yourself, and all the success you may have was hard fought for. Don't you think this will give you greater personal satisfaction?

People still think that there are 'magical combinations' on the sliders and since there are thousands and thousands of combinations (and of course they have tried them all with no success) that they need months and months of tweaking just to have some success. This is a huge problem for those that struggle, so they just give up and think everyone else that says they have success are lying...

To your last question: if team instructions override individual instructions then the individual instructions would become obsolete...

[glory utd]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I don't understand how can a discussion like this harm anyone. more I wonder that, it seems like not many are interested in thread.

so I got one question and I think it's important. does player mentality over rides team? are these two different things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two different things. Team mentality basically sets how the team goes out to play and their style of play, attacking defensive etc. Whereas individual mentalities act to tweak the individuals positioning on the pitch slightly, and how much they will go about defending / attacking.

That is ofc my observations.

[ObaMartins09]

I find that players with good decisions benefit from having a lot of mixed instructions as they can the make the right decision.

i.e Mixed forward runs, mixed run with ball, mixed cross ball etc....

[heathxxx]

For me, alot of the tactical settings "make sense", but what makes sense to one person can often be a complete nonsense to another.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

People still think that there are 'magical combinations' on the sliders and since there are thousands and thousands of combinations (and of course they have tried them all with no success) that they need months and months of tweaking just to have some success. This is a huge problem for those that struggle, so they just give up and think everyone else that says they have success are lying... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true Loversleaper

Diablo-esque tactics are a thing of the past. For me, they were the equivalent of buying an adventure game like Monkey Island, then printing off a walkthrough before you play it. (I actually did this for my mum today as she played it many years ago and forgot what to do!).

The next best alternative for those who "need" to win every match, or win trophies to enjoy the game is one of two things...

1) Use the editor or download FMM

2) Read some informative threads in T&TT Forum, by those with perhaps a better understanding of how the game works, therefore understanding better themselves.

There's no "magic" answer or definitive successful tactic, but by getting our heads together, we can understand more ourselves, whilst indirectly helping those that struggle, to understand better.

[Mitja]

I surely agree that FM08 is far more chelanging then it was. that's correct step forward SI made, in my opinoum. I just hope that people who demand "fun" part of this game back, won't be the majority here.

as for sliders, I realy don't see anything that could replace them. I'm not saying they are perfect and I wrote many things about them here. but the only thing person can do to learn their effect, is to actually watch matches. on full mode. and experimenting, going to extremes of each slider. that's how I learned them.

[knap]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Abramovic's AI Tactics thread </div></BLOCKQUOTE> and the team attributes in database, would indicate a style of play. Some styles may be more suitable to LLM than PL, some styles better against certain opposition and also some formations.

The comment from ObaMartins is interesting as individual players (or types of player) are seldom discussed, and how their performance can be maximised within a style of play.

[Powermonger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">People still think that there are 'magical combinations' on the sliders and since there are thousands and thousands of combinations (and of course they have tried them all with no success) that they need months and months of tweaking just to have some success. This is a huge problem for those that struggle, so they just give up and think everyone else that says they have success are lying... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree somewhat but also believe people give up in frustration because to succeed needs a certain expertise in understandng tactics which only comes about by doing brute force analysis of many games. This is all just to get an undertanding of what the sliders actually do.

We are given the very basic in descriptions and not given hardly anything to help analyse our tactics better, which for a new player makes the whole experience around matches and tactics inaccessable. This whole area of the game could be improved so much more but goes ignored each year we see a new release.

[wwfan]

Why shouldn't people launch new investigations. For what it is worth, I believe the threads linked to above still contain huge amounts of relevant information relating to playing 08. However, some of it does need updating.

There will never be any absolute best settings, just as there isn't an absolute best tactic (bezt taktik) in real life. However, just as in reality, FM generates competing theories about how to best play football. The more people who contribute to the theory building, the better. Nobody is saying 'choose my way, I'm the bezst'. They are just offering ideas and theories to help people better understand tactic building.

Offering deconstructions of how each slider affects play is a great idea. Expecting it to be the 'be all and end all guide' will end in tears. As long as heathxxx is focusing on the former I think his contributions will be a massive help to the FM playing community. Don't expect a scientifically positivist, provable result. Produce a series of loose theories we can pick and choose from as we please and you will have done a great service.

[Powermonger]

To take the discussion back to a more basic level, do others see sliders as having dual configurations in both the slider position and also the positions label, or is the label utilised at certain slider rangers just that, a label?

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Powermonger:

To take the discussion back to a more basic level, do others see sliders as having dual configurations in both the slider position and also the positions label, or is the label utilised at certain slider rangers just that, a label? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. Is it related to team versus individual settings???

[Powermonger]

Either..sorry I should've been more cleared. Take mentality for instance which has the named ranges Defensive, Normal and Attacking. Do these names have configuration attributes in themselves or just used to label a slider range?

Say you've set mentality to '6' which is last notch of defensive, incrementing it by 1 to '7' normal, does the fact you've moved into a different named range introduce it's own behaviour to the slider? The manual doesn't mention anything about this but it seems when we have similar discussions this is sometimes implied.

[wwfan]

I regard it as a rough guide to performance type. If you wish a team to play solid, defensive football with occasional counters, then high-defensive-low-normal. A balance between risk and reward, mid-normal. Aggressive-high normal-attacking. Low-defensive = park the bus.

How you use the rest of the sliders then fits in with that. For example, TTB/RwBs are attacking moves, so should be used with caution in a defensive system and more freely in aggressive ones.

[afeckingname]

Are you going to explain every single notch of every single slider from 1-20? lol it would be sweet if you had all that knowledge lol on a serious note i think you should start with passing style, tempo and width, i think its fair to say these are all definetely linked.

[heathxxx]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by afeckingname:

Are you going to explain every single notch of every single slider from 1-20? lol it would be sweet if you had all that knowledge lol on a serious note i think you should start with passing style, tempo and width, i think its fair to say these are all definetely linked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The aim is twofold - to clean up the forum of lots of individual posts, and to provide a singular source of good information, help and discussion for each of the sliders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm quite happy that I do well enough with the game tactics, but I doubt I could ever disect each position of each slider. That would be like trying to go for a degree in astrophysics lol, and I was never that way inclined - I work with my hands.

Like I've said, what I'm aiming at is a "core" thread for us all to provide explanations of settings, suggestions for slider settings to suit different styles of play, types of players suited to slider settings, etc...

It's a very big and influencial subject, though I would like to, there's simply no way that I could do such a project of analyzing all the sliders on my own.

There's alot of people comfortable working with the sliders, that all have their own preferences and suggestions to offer, myself included.

The "aim" of such a project or thread, is to be a "source" of useful information that will help everyone understand the sliders better.

I'm going to see if I can get the thread started tonight, but I need a little time to get the layout and direction right first. Setting out a thread like this well, is almost as difficult as some people find the use of sliders.

[heathxxx]

I'll probably start with a "definition" of each slider - description of what it does, what sliders are linked and what impacts can be expected from low, medium and high settings.

I feel this would be the best way to start as there are many people who just don't grasp the basics of the sliders. There are alot of people new to FM, so even just starting with this approach will help answer alot of questions.

[Mitja]

I think there might be a mess if you start with definition of every slider... passing would be a good start since it's maybe the easiest to understand...my opinoum only.

[heathxxx]

With this in mind, can anyone send me a pdf or document of the game manual's descriptions of the settings in English? My game and manual is Spanish and would be time consuming and difficult to translate.

I'm thinking that using the descriptions in the manual and then elaborating a little is how I'll start.

[heathxxx]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I think there might be a mess if you start with definition of every slider... passing would be a good start since it's maybe the easiest to understand...my opinoum only. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'll just be the starting point Mitja, so that everyone knows the basics. From there we can discuss each individual (and linked, or combinations) slider, starting with passing if you wish.

[heathxxx]

Or have I bitten of more than I can chew here lol...

[OCDPOKER]

Hate to burst everyones bubble, but I am playing FML beta and have it on good authority from one of the testing team that there are actually only 5 notches that work 0, 5, 10, 15, & 20...apparently Mentality 16 or 17 for instance is just the same as 15 and so on....just what I've been told...

[heathxxx]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OCDPOKER:

Hate to burst everyones bubble, but I am playing FML beta and have it on good authority from one of the testing team that there are actually only 5 notches that work 0, 5, 10, 15, & 20...apparently Mentality 16 or 17 for instance is just the same as 15 and so on....just what I've been told... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

VERY interesting to hear, but could this just be for FM Live or the boxed release? Would be nice to know either way.

I have to say though, I have noticed a distinct difference in how players react to say, creative freedom 0 or creative freedom 2 - going by what your suggesting means that 0 or 2 will be equal in the game engine.

[heathxxx]

Just a thought also - is'nt the FM Liver match engine slightly different?

[Loversleaper]

There are 20 notches on the slider, in other words the sliders should go from 1-20. You can say that the sliders range from 0-19, but the general concept is that 1 on the slider is about 5%...

[afeckingname]

Mentality (Team): Mentality directly affects a player’s position on the field. His set position on the tactical pitch display is where he will line up as a base default, but depending on the mentality set he my be more restrained or cavalier in his approach. The slider ranges from Ultra Defensive to All Out Attacking. The further right the slider is set for the team instruction, the more aggressive your players will play positionally and more ambitious they may be when passing the ball (a more aggressive mentality will result in more forward runs.

Mentality (Player): When set for a player, it applies in the same manner as it does for the team as above.

Creative Freedom (Team): Creative Freedom affects the tendency of your players to attempt the more difficult and ambitious. The slider ranger from Little to Much, and in short, the more creative freedom you allow your team, the more unpredictable they may be. A higher setting may see your players occasionally ignore your tactical instructions and attempt to do their own thing, but the degree of success depends on the technical prowess of your players. Given they’ll be attempting the more difficult stuff; they need to be of a sufficient calibre to make it count. Therefore, it may be advisable to limit this on a team basis and allow it for the more talented player(s) in your team.

Creative Freedom (Player): When set for a player it applies in the same manner as it does for the team as above. The player will act on his own authority at times and attempt to play with flair and trickery.

Tempo: Tempo dictates the speed and urgency your team plays with. The slider ranges from Slow to Quick, and the further right you move the bar, your team will play a more up-tempo game and look to make things happen quickly and sharply. The tempo employed by your team can affect the success of your passing – it is entirely possible to play a quick, short passing game but when you increase the speed of something, mistakes happen.

Width: The width your team lines up with largely comes into effect when they are in possession. The slider is set from Narrow to Wide. Setting the slider further to the right will indicate that you want your players to move towards the touchlines when they have the ball and in particular, get the ball to those in wider position in order to stretch the opposition. A more narrow setting will attempt to bring the play inside and force matters through the centre of the pitch.

Without possession, your players are less inclined to follow your width instructions, but they will try to employ them as best they can against what the opposition is doing.

Closing Down (Team): Closing down represents how often or how committed your players are, to closing down the opposition when they have the ball over the entire pitch. The slider is set from Own Area to Whole Pitch. Increasing how often your players close the opponent down will put them under pressure when they receive the ball, but it can leave your team exposed for position and fitness, especially if your players don’t have the necessary physical attributes to be chasing opponents around for the whole game. Closing an opponent down will increase the chances of taking the ball from them and launching a counter attack, and is probably best employed in an attacking system – if you’re operating defensively with the intention to soak up pressure, your defensive shape doesn’t need to be compromised by players chasing the ball.

Closing Down (Player):Time Wasting: As above. Instead of setting an entire team to close down often, it might be advisable to allow your fittest player(s) to do a bulk of the work.

Time Wasting: Employing time-wasting is a defensive tactic designed to neutralise the attacking threat and frustrate the opposition. If used throughout the game, it is safe to assume the team using it are inferior to their opponents and are doing all they can to avoid defeat. Many other teams of all strengths may use it late in the game to hold onto a slender advantage. The slider is set from Rarely to Often and unless your team is one of the aforementioned inferior ones, this may be an option you use most in the closing minutes of games, or set depending on opposition/match context.

Defensive Line: The defensive line slider positions your deepest line of defence on the pitch. It affects the position the players take up both with and without possession. The slider is set from Deep to Push Up, and the further right the bar is set, the closer to the halfway line the defensive unit will advance when in possession. If your team is using a defensive mentality, a defensive setting on the slider will ensure they stay deep when the rest of your team attacks. If your team uses an attacking philosophy, the effect of the slider is lessened and players will advance – although a deeper line will see them err on the side of caution a little more.

When your team is not in possession the same applies, but in terms of nullifying the opposition. As soon as your team loses the ball, the defensive line will adopt the approach you have told tem to and either drop deeper or push up. You may want to take the qualities of the opposition’s attackers into consideration before each match before deciding on your defensive line approach, as quicker players can get in behind an advanced line, and deeper lines can be exposed by direct play and a big target man up front.

Focus Passing: This option is where you can tell your players where to generally work their play from. You have the option to direct all play down both flanks, either the left or the right only, through the middle, or a mix of all of them. The best use of this is in combination with other tactical settings, the strengths of your team and the weaknesses of others. For E.G. setting your width to ‘Wide’ but directing play through the middle may work through stretching the opponent but you effectively ignore your wide players all game. If you have a left or right sided player of some ability, directing all play towards them can bring them into the game often and maximize the chances of their ability being used to great effect. Similarly, if the opposition has a weak link somewhere in the team, you can tell your players to focus their efforts on making his game a torrid one and yours beneficial.

There is most of the manual description Heath.

[heathxxx]

Thanks for taking the time to do that afeckingname

[afeckingname]

no worries tiz a worth while cause lol those descriptions should be on a sticky in here i think anyway.

[heathxxx]

Who reads the manual...

[OCDPOKER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">VERY interesting to hear, but could this just be for FM Live or the boxed release? Would be nice to know either way.

I have to say though, I have noticed a distinct difference in how players react to say, creative freedom 0 or creative freedom 2 - going by what your suggesting means that 0 or 2 will be equal in the game engine. Confused </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This apparently is for the current match engine on FM 08...u should get clarification though as it was the excuse they used for changiing the live version from 20 notches to 5 a few days ago...so it was more universal to new users as the other setting were the same anyway...

[heathxxx]

I'll have to look into this more OCDPOKER and thanks for mentioning it.

If this is in fact the case with the boxed FM08 release, even with the 8.0.1 patch, then more detailed analysis of the more finite settings with the sliders may be a waste of time.

If the settings only "work" as you suggest, then we can still pursue ways of utilising them effectively, but I for one would like SI to comment on the slider implementation.

[Loversleaper]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I agree somewhat but also believe people give up in frustration because to succeed needs a certain expertise in understandng tactics which only comes about by doing brute force analysis of many games. This is all just to get an undertanding of what the sliders actually do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When a FM gamer figures out how to create attacking or defensive formations, from there it is only a question of how much you will attack or defend after you have assessed your opposition's overall strength verses your team's overall strength. Now some people will ask 'but how much should I attack (for example) if I were playing home to Fulham compared to Middelsborough?'. It doesn't have to be that complicated, in general terms (looking at pre-match odds) you have the following scenarios: Your team are big/slight favorites or your team are slight/big underdogs.

You can build strategies to counter the AI's defferent formations/tactics, you just have to keep the sliders in their general 'mindset' so that you don't contradict the overall tactical outlook for that type of opponent. You can also use (alternative) formations to counter AI formations, for example if they play five in midfield I will maybe counter them with five in midfield (anchor man), or they have three at the back so I go for a 4-3-3. There are options and you can play around with formations as long as the tactical outlook is right.

This is just one way of looking at it and this is the main reason I have been able to gain success. I also make plans for how I am going to bring a club up to the top or stay at the top. Lots of times it takes some time to achieve my goals as I always start with the lowest manager rating, keep my nationality as is (like a true patriot) and bring in lots of young talent and try to build them into superstars...

[Law_Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heathxxx:

Just a thought also - is'nt the FM Liver match engine slightly different? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI have said a few times now that its the exact same match engine.

[OCDPOKER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'll have to look into this more OCDPOKER and thanks for mentioning it.

If this is in fact the case with the boxed FM08 release, even with the 8.0.1 patch, then more detailed analysis of the more finite settings with the sliders may be a waste of time.

If the settings only "work" as you suggest, then we can still pursue ways of utilising them effectively, but I for one would like SI to comment on the slider implementation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were shocked to say the least...it would seem that the mods and makers of the game are reasonably open with beta testers, obviously i would say to help with the overall development of what will undoubtedly be (as a Beta tester myself) Si's greatest ever footballing masterpeice....

[Mitja]

what FML or FM?

[heathxxx]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by PaulC:

Its not true.

All that has happened is that FML beta currently uses 5 slider positions instead of 20. This just limits the settings available within that game. Its of no consequence to FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My question in the GQ forum answered very quickly from one of the men upstairs.

I'm greatly relieved and will now proceed to prepare a thread worthy of this great debate

You'll have to wait until tomorrow now though heh!

[Mitja]

I'm gonna chack that out. there should be a little difference in closing down 1 and 4...

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OCDPOKER:

Hate to burst everyones bubble, but I am playing FML beta and have it on good authority from one of the testing team that there are actually only 5 notches that work 0, 5, 10, 15, & 20...apparently Mentality 16 or 17 for instance is just the same as 15 and so on....just what I've been told... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% wrong. It is amazing how people add 2 and 2 together and make 97!!!

There are going to be some tactical design differences between the 2 engines, but that is because there are no AI tactics utilising the full twenty settings available in FM. It was categorically stated on more than one thread that FM would never go down that route. All 20 settings work differently.

However, it may be useful conceptualising it as roughly the above to stop people thinking 1 notch different slider settings means so much.

[Mitja]

of course 1 notch doesn't mean much, but 4 notches do.