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I don't disagree.

My point was simply that this thread started as a very interesting and useful project, unfortunately it seems to have turned into an "i can't do it so it must be cheating" discussion.

I don't think it would hurt, i think everyone is pretty clear that some of the tweaks only need to be subtle, so subtle that simply watching a replay of a game might not be enough for people to spot the difference.

The tweaks that are made for one game, on one day, will not be generic across every game (or even the same game played over and over), nor will the timings, i just think it would help to do a few things...

1. Help people to learn when to make changes

2. Help people to understand why you should change things

3. Dispell any feeling of "cheating"

I'm just wondering how many people have loaded this save game, and just played games without any tweaking, then said that they can't replicate the sucess...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by macca72:

I don't disagree.

My point was simply that this thread started as a very interesting and useful project, unfortunately it seems to have turned into an "i can't do it so it must be cheating" discussion.

I don't think it would hurt, i think everyone is pretty clear that some of the tweaks only need to be subtle, so subtle that simply watching a replay of a game might not be enough for people to spot the difference.

The tweaks that are made for one game, on one day, will not be generic across every game (or even the same game played over and over), nor will the timings, i just think it would help to do a few things...

1. Help people to learn when to make changes

2. Help people to understand why you should change things

3. Dispell any feeling of "cheating"

I'm just wondering how many people have loaded this save game, and just played games without any tweaking, then said that they can't replicate the sucess... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've done stuff like that numerous times already. So doing it 1 more time will achieve what?

Me trying to help out just isn't worth all the hassle for me anymore. As soon as someone as success he must be cheating, what a joke. Seriously some people expect me to play their games for them and talk them through every single step. I don't mind helping out and offering advice but I'm not going to spoon feed everyone on request. I don't have the time or patients now, as every time I try and show how to do something a select few turn into morons and start slagging you off. So I'm now at the point of asking myself why even bother?

It's a shame as well, as I enjoy offering advice as a lot of people are genuinly interested and need help. But it's just a select few (the same ones time after time may I add) who spoil it and turn every single thread into a argument about cheating just because someone as better success than them.

It's not hard to go undefeated the first season with Sheff Utd. I had a superior squad to the rest of the league and strengthed that with some excellent signing and onlon players too.

markis_mcghee - Download the saved game, you then need winrar to open the file up. Once you have then add the sheff.fm to your games folder and it should appear when you start FM up.

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A good topic now some of the off topic stuff has been sorted out.

Cleon I think this is one for the unofficial tactics bible. It is just that a mod for got to add it icon_wink.gif

I have just finished watching the Bristol City game on full match. Which I would advise other people who want to understand the shape of this tactic and passing triangles.

Well done Cleon icon14.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyscotsman:

Cleon:

Just wondering why you don't play this formation in the reserves and u-18's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because I don't have any prospects, so no need to first season icon_smile.gif

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Cleon:

I downloaded the saved game and played a few games. What the AI seems to do is to use two DMCs against me and have them pick up (not sure if they are set to man mark) the AMR/L->FR/L.

So, I tried setting the AMR/L players to be MR/L with longer farrows to the same positions and for some reason the AI doesn't pick them up the same. I realise this tires out the wingers more, it seems to reduce the number of goals conceded and combats this formation of the AI (i.e. 2 x DMCs) that prevents me from scoring.

If you get the chance, it may be worth while looking at this and telling me if I've just been lucky or if this is something that others might want to try also.

p.s. Cheers for the amended thread icon_wink.gif Nice work.

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hi cleon im having a similar problem to markis_mcghee in that i download the game but then it is not in my list of games to load. What is winrar? and how do i get it ? I would really like to use this game you have created.

Thank-you

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden_Team:

Cleon

First sorry for english ( i`m from poland )

i have one question for you. You bought lulinha, where he will be playing? As one of MCs or FC?

thanx for answer, regards </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MC as thats his best position

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Cleon:

I downloaded the saved game and played a few games. What the AI seems to do is to use two DMCs against me and have them pick up (not sure if they are set to man mark) the AMR/L->FR/L.

So, I tried setting the AMR/L players to be MR/L with longer farrows to the same positions and for some reason the AI doesn't pick them up the same. I realise this tires out the wingers more, it seems to reduce the number of goals conceded and combats this formation of the AI (i.e. 2 x DMCs) that prevents me from scoring.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well conceeding isn't an issue for me and most people who play the save.

When the AI uses 2 dmc's against me, it doesn't cause any real problems as my wingers are still scoring, assisting and finding space.

I never change my shape or arrows when the AI does, only my passing, tempo and where the ball is played i.e down flanks, middle etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> hi cleon im having a similar problem to markis_mcghee in that i download the game but then it is not in my list of games to load. What is winrar? and how do i get it ? I would really like to use this game you have created.

Thank-you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a trial winrar can be downloaded free, just search google for it. Install and then extract the files to your games folder were your other games are stored. Then it should be playable icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jaycar:

Very true but the formation that cleon is using doesn't use AMC's, only MC's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so what do you think, lulinha can play on mc position as well as amc?

sorry for english

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Hi again Cleon

I succesfully dowloadad winrar via google and extracted your Sheffield United file and I was really happy to see that it was finally in my load games list. I went to play it and then it closed down saying there was a fault!

The only reason I can think of is that I am using the game without instaling any patches (no 8.0.1) is this why? if no, what is it? and if that is what the problem is then is it worth installing the patch, is it harder or easier to win after the patch? icon_smile.gif

Thank-you

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden_Team:

the best for lulinha is amc no mc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On his positions he as accomplished for MC. After 1-2 years training and playing in the MC position it turns to natural. For the style I play, he plays best as MC not AMC.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Hi again Cleon

I succesfully dowloadad winrar via google and extracted your Sheffield United file and I was really happy to see that it was finally in my load games list. I went to play it and then it closed down saying there was a fault!

The only reason I can think of is that I am using the game without instaling any patches (no 8.0.1) is this why? if no, what is it? and if that is what the problem is then is it worth installing the patch, is it harder or easier to win after the patch?

Thank-you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need the patches icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dong21:

will i not be able to use my previous saves though ? as i am several seasons in with a few. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The patches are save game compatible so it should be fine. Although some bug fixes may require a new game to be started.

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Cleon,

Although I don't use your tactic, but use almost the same shape(4-1-2-2-1). The question I have is about the wingers. Are your wingers purely attacking players or to they defend too?

I have the problem that the two wingers don't want to close down opposition players, even if they are in his zone(Most of the time). Even the striker doesn't want to close down opposition players(this I can live with). But I would like them to atleast pressure the opponents defenders if they have the ball. It maybe because of the players attributes, I don't know.

The settings I am using now: Mentality 12, Creative Freedom 5, Closing Down 19, Marking Man(Although Zonal, didn't make a difference).

Any advice appreciated.

Thx

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My wingers do help track back yeah. Download the saved game and take a look at some of my games to see if you can pick anything up from it, and you might be able to implement them into your own game.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ezzz:

Cleon,

Although I don't use your tactic, but use almost the same shape(4-1-2-2-1). The question I have is about the wingers. Are your wingers purely attacking players or to they defend too?

I have the problem that the two wingers don't want to close down opposition players, even if they are in his zone(Most of the time). Even the striker doesn't want to close down opposition players(this I can live with). But I would like them to atleast pressure the opponents defenders if they have the ball. It maybe because of the players attributes, I don't know.

The settings I am using now: Mentality 12, Creative Freedom 5, Closing Down 19, Marking Man(Although Zonal, didn't make a difference).

Any advice appreciated.

Thx </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find the wingers are a doing a good job tracking back in this tactic, their devensive effectiveness may not be optimal but they mostly have low defensive stats so can't really blame them. I think I know what you mean with not closing down. Maybe moving up your defensive line would make the forward line be closer to the defensive line. Not sure if it works like this though

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Downloaded the save game, and watched some games(even played one game), wasn't much of a help because most of the highlights were of you attacking, not defending icon_smile.gif .

Although they do close down a little more with your settings(will close down defenders(DC) more when they have the ball) , there are still instances where the opponents FB just goes past the winger, while the winger stops chasing back.

This maybe good for counter-attacking, but that leaves my fullbacks in a 2-vs-1 situation, which I don't like. Not saying anything bad about the AI, but their wingers seemed to pressure my players more(the way I would like my players to do), or maybe I am just seeing things.

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Looks like a great tactic from the results you have acheived so far. Especially the goals conceded!!

Although I must say, you have bought rather a lot of excellent players, so promotion with them should be a given regardless of tactics.

Second season will be interesting, so am holidaying the first to have a stab in the Prem.

Cheers dude.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rikirani:

Looks like a great tactic from the results you have acheived so far. Especially the goals conceded!!

Although I must say, you have bought rather a lot of excellent players, so promotion with them should be a given regardless of tactics.

Second season will be interesting, so am holidaying the first to have a stab in the Prem.

Cheers dude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even without signing it would have been promotion. Dont focus on my signing as they are young and need time to gel.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

On his positions he as accomplished for MC. After 1-2 years training and playing in the MC position it turns to natural. For the style I play, he plays best as MC not AMC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a gem of knowledge as far as I'm concerned! I always thought that players could never ever gain another "natural" position!! Cheers Cleon icon_smile.gif

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Quick question Cleon: I normally let the reserves and youth team use the same tactic as the fist team. Does this help their development and transition to the first team in this game? Or could I just leave it all to the coach I've set to manage the teams?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Veg:

Quick question Cleon: I normally let the reserves and youth team use the same tactic as the fist team. Does this help their development and transition to the first team in this game? Or could I just leave it all to the coach I've set to manage the teams? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you've got players you hope one day will play for 1st team, then yes make them play same tactics.

Dave thanks icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Law_Man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

On his positions he as accomplished for MC. After 1-2 years training and playing in the MC position it turns to natural. For the style I play, he plays best as MC not AMC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a gem of knowledge as far as I'm concerned! I always thought that players could never ever gain another "natural" position!! Cheers Cleon icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Young players can, if you train them that position and play them there.

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I was using a similar tactic to you Cleon, but I had the wingbacks as full-backs with no Forward arrows. Decided to move them up and wing-backs with back arrows and added back arrow from DM to the DC position.

I am playing Newcastle and did very well in my first season with my tactic (finished second) bu it was struggling in the second season until I tried your suggestions.

One problem though, I seem to dominate all teams and manage regularly 15-20 shots per game but struggling to score!! When I score, most of the goals are coming from my AM L and R and not my striker. Infact my strikers are struggling!!! Defensively the tactic is very good.

Im using Leto/Di Maria in the AM/L and Arizmendi/Ziani in the AM/R, strikers rotate between Stancu/Owen.

I generally play attacking (five notches below max), CF set to 2 notches above minimum, passing 2 notches below normal, width is 2 notches above minimum, tempo 2 notches below normal, closing down 5 notches below max, defensive line 5 notches below max (closing down and defensive line are directly related to mentality and I always try to match them as close as possible). I am currently playing through the middle but sometimes change to both flanks (I dont like setting it to mix)

I only tick "play offside" when my defensive line is pushed up i.e. when I am attacking. I also have target man supply to "feet"

From memory my striker has all personal attributes set to team (I have tried changing CF but didnt notice any difference), he has forward runs and run with ball to mixed, no long shooting or through balls and he has "holding ball" ticked as well.

Any ideas how I can improve the efficiency of my strikers? or perhaps score more goals.

To give you an example, I finished 6th in my second season after a poor start but I only managed to score 46 goals and conceded 23!!! I was losing games 1-0 but winning 1-0 or 2-1.

thanks in advance

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When I was having similar problems, I reduced tempo slightly, to stop my players rushing their chances.

It's a bit of a balancing act though, as if you reduce it too much, you may find that you are not so dominant any more.

Sometimes I have started giving the CM with the slightly higher mentality, sa farrow into the cental ACM position and increasing his forward runs to often, and he bags a few goals by arriving late in the area.

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thanks Swash

Actually tried this last night (before reading your reply), only managed to play a couple of games but importantly beat Liverpool at Anfield 4-2!! They dominated the game but my players just couldnt miss. I believe this was due to slowing the tempo, I will give this another go on the weekend but not decrease the tempo by so much (instead of 2 notches below normal I decreased it to two notches above minimum, I also increased width to two notches below normal).

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I have been using a variation of Cleon's tactic for my below Northampton in L1. I am top after 15 games and unbeaten. I have downloaded the patch and was wondering whether you have still had some success with the tactic?

Nonetheless I have been failing to replicate the form with my striker's as evident by your game and my test game with Sheff. What sort of attributes should I look for?

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Here's my season with the other Sheffield (Wednesday) using the tactic from the savegame.

League Table

I have to mention that I did (as with all my games) work the transfermarket heavily and brought in almost a whole new team of youngsters and some oldies on free transfer. Also I do spend time setting up training and getting the best coaches I can.

I have a feeling this is where many people fall through. Pretty much every squad in the game has at least a few players you can offload for a little battlechest. And there's lots of nice talent and experienced cheap/free buys around.

I always look for 12+ in pace/acc/det/workrate/teamwork and go from there. This time I got Raymond Kalla on a free and Diego Reynoso for 10k as my centerbacks. Not bad letting in 16 goals in 46 matches with centerbacks worth 10k icon_biggrin.gif

Good job on a very balanced tactic Cleon, I feel I could have done even better had I spent more time tweaking the set pieces to my team (I didnt touch them at all). My striker is no good on the head and one of the centerbacks is also bad.

My only worry was the wingbacks position when the oposition had a goalkick and they went 424. I lost a couple of goals on this. The keeper just plays their FR or FL through on goal.

Also even though I dominate position I hardly ever create many clear cut chances, and the oposition get their fair few aswell. I think the average game was about 12-8 shots in my favour. I guess having a full team of people that dont know eachother didnt help on that though.

Cheers.

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a quick update of something I tried last night

- Set Mentality to defensive (highest notch of defensive)

- Set defensive line to deep (highest notch of deep)

- tick counter attack

- instruct the WB/L and WB/R to go forward "Mixed"

- I increased CF to 3 or4 (depending on opponent) notches below minimum (I found that setting it to 1-2 notches above minimum causes the defence to dwell on the ball too long and lose it too often)

I played 4 games last night and won them all, beating ManU at Old trafford 2-1

I dominated most games on average of %55-%45 possesion and created on average about 20-25 shots on goal (about 12-15 of them on target)

I can upload the tactic if anyone wants to try it and play around with it.

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hi cleon

ur attacker have instructions

run with ball > often

long shot > mix

forward run >often

cross>often

Will he be confused? For example when he receive the ball, should he cross or should he dribble?

I am using Man United at the moment. If my player has dribble of 10. Your tactic ask him to dribble often, shhould I still set him as dribble often?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pokka:

but ur sheffield players doesnt have dribble 17+ too. How come u can give him such instructions ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The lower you go, the lower the stats are needed to pull it off.

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im using man utd in the premier league but even so, i do not have such wonderful players to call upon for every match.

Does that mean that before the start of every match, i must manually adjust the settings for each player? for example, if fletcher plays, he must

-forward run mix

dribble rarely

long shot rarely

try through ball often

cross mix ?

Does that also mean whenever u do a substition u got to painstakinly adjust all the 5 settings again?

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Cleon i am using this tactic after the patch but have found that i am struggling against this formation.

--------o--------

--o--o-----o--o--

--------o--------

-----o-----o-----

--o-----------o--

--------o--------

Have you got any advice as to overcome these difficulties.

Thanks

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Hi CLeon

If you've a player whose stats are:

Off the Ball > 18

Dribble > 18

Passing > 20

Crossing >17

Long shot > 15

Would you place his individual instructions as

Forward Run> Often

Dribble > often

Try Through Ball > Often

Crossing > Often

Long Shot > Often

Would this confuse the player? In the sense that when he has the ball, he is confused as to cross or dribble or pass.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hi CLeon

If you've a player whose stats are:

Off the Ball > 18

Dribble > 18

Passing > 20

Crossing >17

Long shot > 15

Would you place his individual instructions as

Forward Run> Often

Dribble > often

Try Through Ball > Often

Crossing > Often

Long Shot > Often

Would this confuse the player? In the sense that when he has the ball, he is confused as to cross or dribble or pass.

Ignored post by pokka posted 17 February 2008 15:28 Show Post </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi CLeon

If you've a player whose stats are:

Off the Ball > 18

Dribble > 18

Passing > 20

Crossing >17

Long shot > 15

Would you place his individual instructions as

Forward Run> Often

Dribble > often

Try Through Ball > Often

Crossing > Often

Long Shot > Often

Would this confuse the player? In the sense that when he has the ball, he is confused as to cross or dribble or pass.

Ignored post by pokka posted 17 February 2008 15:28 Show Post

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