Mike7077 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 We really need to stop generalising the Americans as a nation, I'm very suprised by the xenophobic gang mentality on here sometimes. I'm not sure if you're including me in that, but in case you are, I feel I need to clarify what I was saying. Firstly, as someone who studied American politics in great depth and through choice as part of both my degree and my Master's, I am not the type to engage in generalisations. I am by no means a fan of everything America does, but it is still a country I admire and take a great interest in. With regard to my post, I did say 'Americans', but I do realise that there those who are enamoured with British culture and admire us and things about us. But I also know that, as a whole, Americans are fiercely proud of the things that they create and take less easily to things that may be popular elsewhere. Sport is a good example of this. So is television. This is why I argued that FM's success in Britain doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how popular it could become in the US. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Mods - please close this thread as its completely off topic from original post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 You don't need to do that. If the mods think it needs closing, they will close it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The last few posts have probably saved it, and the xenophobia seems to have died down. It can stay open for a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tefal Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 i wonder if any americans had a hand in making this game the worse fm ever? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedclough Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Come on, come let's stop with the American bashing, jsut because of an ill-informed review. It's not right to pick on our friends across the pond... Let's have a go at the Indians instead. Kabbadi, what the hell is all that about! Stupid sport.I've got Kabbadi Manager 2009 and the new 3D is rubbish. Don't get me started on the sliders!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tefal Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 i was obviously joking about the americans. i know what you mean about km09 though. much too reliant on tactics and has completly taken the fun out of the series. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberto Blanco Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Yes, but Americans don't like taking the lead from other countries. It's partly why they have their own sports. The fact British people love the game doesn't mean Americans will too.I'm not saying they won't either, though. Exactly. I think it was said before: This 2/10 score is rather a rating for soccer as a sport than for fm as a game. NHL09 is another good example for this: 9/10 ratings or above on .com-sites and was even declared as the best sports game ever by IGN. But not for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The last few posts have probably saved it, and the xenophobia seems to have died down. It can stay open for a bit. You jinxed it didn't you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedclough Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I think the AI on KM09 is too quick to counter your tactics and your players run out of breath much too easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aytumious Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Exactly. I think it was said before: This 2/10 score is rather a rating for soccer as a sport than for fm as a game. NHL09 is another good example for this: 9/10 ratings or above on .com-sites and was even declared as the best sports game ever by IGN. But not for me. Nonsense. FIFA and PES get good scores. Based on his review, I'm guessing he enjoyed those games. The guy was simply completely ignorant of sports management games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tefal Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I think the AI on KM09 is too quick to counter your tactics and your players run out of breath much too easily. to be honest i've lost faith with the whole km franchise after the debacle that is this version. never thought i'd say this but i'm going return this and go for fika manager 09 instead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 i wonder if any americans had a hand in making this game the worse fm ever? It's the best FM ever, so kudos to any Americans (or Koreans or Algerians or anybody!) who worked on it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaded Walrus Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I don't think this thread should be locked yet - we should at least keep it open until the updated review goes up, so we can see the community reaction to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I want Yes, the depth of management in this game is impressive. But, it’s not impressive enough to make up for the fact that you aren’t actually playing soccer. as my autosignature on every single football manager forum in the world... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGTroyer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 To the poster who asked why anyone would play a baseball game who wasn't a fan of the game... I picked up FM05 when my favorite game at the time, Out of the Park Baseball, took a year off for a complete code rewrite. I had heard much of FM and how it was the best sports-management sim on the market. Even though I had, at the time, a typical American attitude towards soccer -- it was boring, too slow, not enough scoring, and what contact there was was pulled up because the players were naturally afraid of getting hurt if they went in full-on -- and had almost no knowledge of the sport, I decided to give the game with the "rep" a try. I haven't looked back. FM taught me soccer. I actively support Reading now and watch at least six hours a week on FSC. I've gained an appriciation for the sport, both the skills of the players and the "beauty" of the tactical side. Once, while attending a Chicago Fire match with my sons, my eldest asked me if I saw little blobs moving up and down the pitch while we watched...I said, "Yeah, kinda. The trick is, not to always watch the ball. See that guy over there (an unmarked winger was making a run in the right channel toward the box)? Watch him..." The player I pointed out received a cross not three seconds later and put a header on goal. It was saved, but my point was made..."How the heck did you know that?" my son asked. And to all my European friends who generalize Americans as "dumb slobs," the only thing I have to say is, "stupid is as stupid does." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavePAFC Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That article had me in stiches and now its been pulled with a big apology being shown, you couldn't make it up. IGN really have let their standards slip when they allow nonsensical jibberish like that to see the light of day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielrae Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The reviews been pulled... http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/936/936295p1.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF90 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I couldn’t imagine why anybody would prefer Worldwide Soccer Manager to FIFA 09 or Pro Evolution Soccer 2009. As far as traditional gameplay goes, there really isn't any in Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009. Apart from managing your roster and coaching your team, there really isn't anything to do at all. Yes, the depth of management in this game is impressive. But, it’s not impressive enough to make up for the fact that you aren’t actually playing soccer. Classic. The reviewers view of the 3D match engine are quite true though and is shared by a lot of people I know. It personally doesn't bother me that much - although I would like to see more animations and sharper textures. Glad to see that the review was pulled - it was kind of embarrassing. Oh, and all the anti-American stuff is just so childish and really uncalled for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish_red2 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 to be honest i've lost faith with the whole km franchise after the debacle that is this version. never thought i'd say this but i'm going return this and go for fika manager 09 instead fika has the fancy graphics and shiz but it has too many shortfalls to be considered as a rival to KM. Although KM has a very poor media module, and runs very slow on my computer, it has more depth than Fika and concentrates more on the management then the RPG side of being a Kabbadi Manager, unlike Fika manager. on-topic- The reviewer completely missed the point of FM but that does not mean he doesn't make any valid points, and i found it interesting having an insight into a gamer who seems to like football (or soccer, whatevers good for you), but has not come across this type of genre before and never played the game. it seems to provide us with a lot of information regarding the accessibility of the game to casual football fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF90 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 fika has the fancy graphics and shiz but it has too many shortfalls to be considered as a rival to KM. Although KM has a very poor media module, and runs very slow on my computer, it has more depth than Fika and concentrates more on the management then the RPG side of being a Kabbadi Manager, unlike Fika manager. Laughed out loud when I read that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As a whole, Americans are fiercely proud of the things that they create and take less easily to things that may be popular elsewhere. Sport is a good example of this. So is television. This is why I argued that FM's success in Britain doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how popular it could become in the US. I suspect you reach the right conclusion for the wrong supporting reason. Speaking as an American, I think its more like .. Part of football's charm to a Brit is the history: your father supported X FC, and took you to games when you were little, so you support X FC, even if they aren't in the top flight anymore .. you caln look back upon a rich tradition of a hundred years of sport, and have bought books detailing the lives of legends who retired before you were born, or especially the heroes who were prominent when you were seven or eight years of age. You and your friends played it in the streets or an empty field as youths, just for fun pick-up games. Its on the telly all the time. If you go to a pub during the season, the telly is showing a game, and there's somebody interested in it. In other words, football is popular in part because football is popular. What is often missing in this debate is .. we have all of that tradition and history surrounding American football and baseball; we're steeped in them from childhood in the same way; our cultural legends played different sports. Those sports each stem from the mid- to late- 1800's, just as football does. However, from say 1860 to say 1980, there was such a firm technological divide between Europe and America that one's sport might as well not have existed to the other; there was no internet, there were few channels on television so those that were were devoted entirely to he most popular sports locally .. Its exactly like regional dialects developing in language due to separation and difficulty of travel and communication between two regions. What I've noticed in years as a sports fan is that most fans find "boring" a sport that they don't understand well. It takes being able to understand the strategy, see the individual chess matches, and appreciate the difficulty of technique for anybody to really deeply enjoy a sport. If you're a child steeped in a football culture from a young age .. by the time you're fifteen, you have all of that ability to "see", and therefore appreciate, a football match. American children develop the same ability, with a different sport .. with whichever sport they adopted at a young age. So, expecting the excellence of football to be obvious to Americans is as silly as Americans expecting the excellence of American football to be obvious to Europeans. We have different traditions; this is a cultural difference, not a "take less easily to things that are popular elsewhere" thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 So, expecting the excellence of football to be obvious to Americans is as silly as Americans expecting the excellence of American football to be obvious to Europeans. Football is hardly only big in Europe though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaded Walrus Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Football is hardly only big in Europe though. He was using it as an example. He could have said Asians or Africans and it still would have been accurate. Still, good points as always Amaroq. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Exactly, and thanks DW. Mike's conclusion that "How popular it is (anywhere else) has no bearing on how popular it (is) to Americans" is spot on. Not that I won't be trying to change that by getting my sons or daughters - someday, I hope! - hooked on the Beautiful Game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lougehrig Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I'm an American and have been playing this game since Championship Manager 2 in 1993. I probably know more about this game and tactics and techniques than 95% of most people. I think it's safe to say that generalizing Americans into any category is ridiculous. Just like it's ridiculous to generalize an ethnic group, especially when it comes to playing a PC game. I'm sure the majority of the population in any country (even England) know very little about PC soccer simulations and the average person probably knows the basics of football, but not technical details. I mean could people's mom's or sisters player Football Manager? Would they want to? To say classify an American as a football or Football Manager novice is simply short sited. I think a fan of football is a fan football and he can be from the USA or Egypt or China or the UK. 18 million each year in the United States play soccer every year including 40% girls. I'd say that number rivals the total number of players in the UK. Which would lead you to believe there is an equal population of people in the US who would be interested in sports simulation revolving around football. Something to consider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izual Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I want to give a big thanks to all the guys who bothered to sign up and leave comments. Looks like we were victorious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lougehrig Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 God i hate yanks.....what a stupid **** that fellow that did that review! You were born in 1993? Hahaha. I've been playing Championship Manager / Football Manager longer than you've been alive. And I'm a Yank. Hahahaha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izual Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I hate it when the mods merge topics together. The topic I made had about 200 posts in it and was construtive and led to the review eventually be taken down. Now it's been merged with some random topic with 10 posts and that topic creator gets given the prestige of being named creator of this one. It's ****ing ridiculous. Mods on here are a joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I hate it when the mods merge topics together. The topic I made had about 200 posts in it and was construtive and led to the review eventually be taken down.Now it's been merged with some random topic with 10 posts and that topic creator gets given the prestige of being named creator of this one. It's ****ing ridiculous. Mods on here are a joke. Calm down a bit, the forum would be in turmoil without them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izual Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Calm down a bit, the forum would be in turmoil without them Glances at last 30 posts.... Riiiiiiiiiiight... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Glances at last 30 posts....Riiiiiiiiiiight... Do you mind explaining what is the problem with my last 30 posts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaded Walrus Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Do you mind explaining what is the problem with my last 30 posts? He meant the last 30 posts in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 He meant the last 30 posts in this thread. Stop correcting me , sorry about the confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanpr Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 PC Gamer - 69% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 PC Gamer - 69% I've gotta read that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaded Walrus Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Also, the withdrawal of that IGN review has added another 10 back onto the Metacritic average. Previously the average was at 74, and only three out of 18 reviews were lower than that average, including the IGN one. Now the Metacritic score is at 83, and 9 out of 17 are below that (with 8 above, obviously). So now the Metacritic score is a lot more representative of the general critical opinion of the game, which is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGamer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 IGN have removed the review now: http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/936/936295p1.html I was looking forward to reading it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kergon Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 Review Removed Analysis of SEGA's stat-footy pulled from site. by IGN Staff US, December 5, 2008 - We missed the mark -- that's the only way to explain why we've pulled the U.S. review of Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 off our site. After seeing the community feedback and having more editors look at the title, we agree with the readers that our original review didn't give Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 a fair shake. Unfortunately, our critical analysis of WWSM '09 focused more on what the author wanted it to be rather than what the product actually was. We review games at IGN based on their own merits, and agree that it was unreasonable to compare WWSM '09 with action-oriented sports titles like FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer. Because of the unfair comparison, we have deemed the review unacceptable and have removed it from the site. We extend our sincerest apologies to both SEGA and our readers for the mistake and confusion. Look for an updated and more accurate relation of IGN's view of WWSM '09 sometime in the near future. Jeremy Dunham Games Editorial Manager, IGN.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 Review RemovedAnalysis of SEGA's stat-footy pulled from site. by IGN Staff US, December 5, 2008 - We missed the mark -- that's the only way to explain why we've pulled the U.S. review of Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 off our site. After seeing the community feedback and having more editors look at the title, we agree with the readers that our original review didn't give Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 a fair shake. Unfortunately, our critical analysis of WWSM '09 focused more on what the author wanted it to be rather than what the product actually was. We review games at IGN based on their own merits, and agree that it was unreasonable to compare WWSM '09 with action-oriented sports titles like FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer. Because of the unfair comparison, we have deemed the review unacceptable and have removed it from the site. We extend our sincerest apologies to both SEGA and our readers for the mistake and confusion. Look for an updated and more accurate relation of IGN's view of WWSM '09 sometime in the near future. Jeremy Dunham Games Editorial Manager, IGN.com Well atleast they except it. Welcome to the forums by the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I hate it when the mods merge topics together. The topic I made had about 200 posts in it and was construtive and led to the review eventually be taken down.Now it's been merged with some random topic with 10 posts and that topic creator gets given the prestige of being named creator of this one. It's ****ing ridiculous. Mods on here are a joke. This is a joke: "A sandwich walks into a bar. The barman says "Sorry we don't serve food in here." Mods are not jokes. In other news, please don't swear. Thanks, GM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 This is a joke: "A sandwich walks into a bar. The barman says "Sorry we don't serve food in here." Mods are not jokes. In other news, please don't swear. Thanks, GM The best post from a mod ever, that was great. How are you doing anyway Gillsman Also, is 69% the lowest review score out there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
101east Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 And what abut this: Lasting Appeal This game is aimed at a very specific audience, and it’s inconceivable to me that anybody outside of that audience could play even an hour of this game before turning it off for good. Yep, we're all idiots. yea good audience to target =( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaded Walrus Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The best post from a mod ever, that was great. How are you doing anyway GillsmanAlso, is 69% the lowest review score out there? Yes. At least the lowest one from a major source. See the Metacritic page for a little snippet of the review. "Soccer sim solidly cluttered. [Christmas 2008, p.78]" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sthptngomad76 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Anyone else reckon that Bangladesh are a touch overrated in the latest KM btw? They've won the last 6 Asian Indoor Games in mine. And what's with Harman Dhaliwal's 17 for Ankle Catching??????????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
this_game_is_unrealistic Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The guy (or girl, Avi sounds like a unisex name) didn't give a moronic review because he/she was American. He/she gave the poor review because he/she is a moron. The reviewer doesn't understand the point of a management/strategy game. The review would have been similar if the game was Baseball Mogul (a great sim/management game in the States with less graphics/interface than FM). The sport has nothing to do with it. Sometimes Europeans think that they know more about football because they are European. There are plenty of astute fans, coaches, and players in America who understand football better than your British pundits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoShedsJackson Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hate it when the mods merge topics together. The topic I made had about 200 posts in it and was construtive and led to the review eventually be taken down.Now it's been merged with some random topic with 10 posts and that topic creator gets given the prestige of being named creator of this one. It's ****ing ridiculous. Mods on here are a joke. hahahaha oh heavens someone else got the 'prestige' of having the first post in YOUR THREAD DAMMITT!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimland Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Well it is kinda nice that IGN accept that they did a horrible misstake with the review and are appologising for it. As they really compared the game with games that isn't even the same cathegory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I must admit it's quite funny that the US IGN got enough bad comments to decide to remove it. Just off topic, I think it's wierd that before this post there was 6,666 views of this thread. May just be me though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasdgfas Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 PC Gamer - 69% PC Gamer UK, no less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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