FM2009 deserve 2.0 out of 10.0

[DonOne]

1 / 10 - woeful first attempt at 09.

a step backwards.

[senorcoo]

I'm pure American. Absolutely no European blood in me whatsoever. I'm probably a 5th or 6th generation African-American (educated guess - slave days). So I have absolutely no real reason as an American to like football. I just picked up a ball one day and started kicking it around one day. Ive been watching for 8+ yrs and playing FM for about 2 yrs. ( This is my second post I believe but I've been reading religiously for awhile now.)

It is possible for an American to actually care about something going on outside of their own country. Even though there are very few fans of the sport in our country I usually never have a hard time finding somebody to talk footy with. So beneath all the ignorance and disregard for the sport, there still are people who enjoy watching football and playing FM just as much as.

This guy who wrote this review is a moron. The worst part is IGN assigned this guy to write a review. Management games are not for everyone especially not the American Ipod and Myspace Generation. The only thing I ask is that at least, don't ever call me a Yankee. Oh No you didn't! Lol silly American joke sorry.

Yeah, the USA as a whole are lost on the concept of football. My wife was never into sports and got into baseball, basketball, and American football, but she just can't get into proper football. I try to explain the beauty of it to her and she watched the last 20 or so minutes of the Hull v. Boro match this past week and saw how 0-0 became a frenetic 2-1 finish. I think it caught her interest a little as she was asking why the foul on Geovanni was a penalty and a red card. "Why doesn't he get a warning?" she asked. The I proceeded to explain cards to her. She also inquired why they allow draws. I explained how sometimes a lesser team facing a much stronger team might play for the draw just to get the point and so on. Her greatest annoyance, believe it or not, is the chanting.

[Saner2oo2]

Maybe someone should send them a copy of championchip manager 2

that had speech commentory (IIRC) and would make up for the lack of sound.

:Q

[Rob_]

The real money to be made is in the states so expect SI to take note and release FM10 this reviewer will love. RIP FM as we know it.

I jest of course.

[Guyatwork37]

Goddammit

This is why people hate us Americans.

[dankrzyz]

It's a sports management sim... yet the reviewer apparently expected high animation and graphic effects, as well as sound. It's like buying a mobile phone, then complaining it doesn't make coffee. That's not the point of it at all!

[Dreaded Walrus]

Oh, by the way guys, it appears that Rock, Paper, Shotgun have picked up on this story. There's an interesting discussion going on in the comments thread there, too.

[Golaxi]

2 out of ten, aint far wrong. more like 0 out of ten

for a game that dont work on spanking new computers 0 is very generous

[Aytumious]

Goddammit

This is why people hate us Americans.

Because of video game reviews?

His nationality isn't the issue. His problem, as others pointed out, is that he reviewed the game as if it was in the same genre as FIFA or PES when it clearly is a completely different type of game. Judged as a sports management sim, its clearly one of the best -- probably the best -- out there. Judged as an exciting, 3D sports action game, it fails horribly, but that isn't the type of game it is meant to be and the reviewer apparently doesn't grasp that fact.

[Kyouya]

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/953033.asp?q=worldwide%20soccer%20manager%202009

Also did hurt the gamerankings rank.

[Suge]

How can anyone take a review with 'soccer' in the title seriously?

[Golaxi]

why so many fanboys?

[peter-evo]

why so many fanboys?

We aren't fan boys, just like the game. Is it illegal now to like the game?

[Mike7077]

why so many fanboys?

Hmm... I don't know. Could it be that lots of us like the game? Geez... Are we getting to the point where you can't defend it without being given this ridiculous label?

[gazzamcg]

Is it illegal now to like the game?

It has been for three years.

I've notified the relevant authorities.

They are coming to get you ...

[Les Girondins]

Because of video game reviews?

His nationality isn't the issue. His problem, as others pointed out, is that he reviewed the game as if it was in the same genre as FIFA or PES when it clearly is a completely different type of game. Judged as a sports management sim, its clearly one of the best -- probably the best -- out there. Judged as an exciting, 3D sports action game, it fails horribly, but that isn't the type of game it is meant to be and the reviewer apparently doesn't grasp that fact.

Well said. I find all this America bashing a bit worrying. The review would be uninformed rubbish if the guy was French.

[Dreaded Walrus]

How can anyone take a review with 'soccer' in the title seriously?

When it's a review of a game called "Worldwide Soccer Manager"? Come on guy, let's be real here, they're not going to review the game by calling it the EU title any more than here in the UK the major magazines are going to review the latest Project Zero game and call it Fatal Frame. Can you imagine a Western review of We Love Katamari titling their review Minna Daisuki Katamari Damacy? Of course not. The game is called Worldwide Soccer Manager in the States, so of course they're going to call it that in the review title.

And let's not get into dialect snobbery. If they want to call football soccer, fine. If they want to call crisps chips, fine. If people from Yorkshire want to say "nowt" instead of "nothing", then fine.

And more generally to the people making anti-"Soccer" comments, The Americans on this forum aren't being obnoxious and saying that we're wrong for saying football, so let's not do the opposite, eh?

[GillsMan]

why so many fanboys?

Feel free to post if you have something constructive to say. If not, then please feel free to not post.

[GillsMan]

Well said. I find all this America bashing a bit worrying.

Agreed. It's borderline xenophobic, and I'd ask people to rein it a bit please.

Cheers.

[Mike7077]

When it's a review of a game called "Worldwide Soccer Manager"? Come on guy, let's be real here, they're not going to review the game by calling it the EU title any more than here in the UK the major magazines are going to review the latest Project Zero game and call it Fatal Frame. Can you imagine a Western review of We Love Katamari titling their review Minna Daisuki Katamari Damacy? Of course not. The game is called Worldwide Soccer Manager in the States, so of course they're going to call it that in the review title.

And let's not get into dialect snobbery. If they want to call football soccer, fine. If they want to call crisps chips, fine. If people from Yorkshire want to say "nowt" instead of "nothing", then fine.

And more generally to the people making anti-"Soccer" comments, The Americans on this forum aren't being obnoxious and saying that we're wrong for saying football, so let's not do the opposite, eh?

Couldn't agree more. As a British person, I get sick of people tutting everytime and American (or an Australian or anyone else) says 'soccer' instead of 'football'. I've always been of the opinion that people can call it peacock sex if they want, so long as they enjoy it.

[Suge]

When it's a review of a game called "Worldwide Soccer Manager"? Come on guy, let's be real here, they're not going to review the game by calling it the EU title any more than here in the UK the major magazines are going to review the latest Project Zero game and call it Fatal Frame. Can you imagine a Western review of We Love Katamari titling their review Minna Daisuki Katamari Damacy? Of course not. The game is called Worldwide Soccer Manager in the States, so of course they're going to call it that in the review title.

And let's not get into dialect snobbery. If they want to call football soccer, fine. If they want to call crisps chips, fine. If people from Yorkshire want to say "nowt" instead of "nothing", then fine.

And more generally to the people making anti-"Soccer" comments, The Americans on this forum aren't being obnoxious and saying that we're wrong for saying football, so let's not do the opposite, eh?

Taken out of context a wee bit there fella. I was merely stating that North American football standards differ a lot from European standards. To trust a review based on an NA version, being based in Europe in all, could be a bit misleading.

This thread bores me now.

[Guyatwork37]

I like how British folk bash the term soccer when they came up with the term in the first place.

But back to bashing Americans! BOO America!

[Mike7077]

I like how British folk bash the term soccer when they came up with the term in the first place.

But back to bashing Americans! BOO America!

We don't all do it, my friend. Personally, I'm fully aware of the term's origins. But I don't think that matters. It's the anti-Americanism and 'football' snobbery that lies behind it that I don't like. As I said earlier, people can call it what they like as long as they enjoy it, as far as I'm concerned.

[Amaroq]

I do hope SI will take that review to heart for a couple of things:

1. Its a good indication of how primitive the gaming community at large views the current 3D engine.

2. Its a good indication of how difficult the game is to come to terms with for an American who is not a football fan.

Those of us who have successfully *made* the transition love it ... but if you're wondering why your North American sales aren't growing as quickly as you'd like, that review actually captures the way the typical American gamer would probably experience this game, probably very accurately.

If you're frustrated enough with the UI and unimpressed with the 3D engine and overwhelmed by the depth, you never forge the emotional connection with your team and players that you need to promote that "compelling reason to keep playing" that we here all understand that the game has.

[Traver]

Heh seems the review has been withdrawn...probably for the better, I were one of the people that signed up for IGN purely to comment on this review...

[fromthemachine]

I don't think management games will ever be mainstream, Amaroq. There's an effort by EA to sort of dumb down a lot of the technical side for people who simulate through the games on FIFA or Madden, but I'd imagine those management games would just whet the appetite for a game like FM. Still, growth potential in America is going to be limited to the fringes of the gaming world. There are a lot of really great management games out there, ranging from baseball to college (American) football to basketball. Their survival remains in the hands of small but dedicated communities and volunteer programmers, however.

[Donners]

It's a sports management sim... yet the reviewer apparently expected high animation and graphic effects, as well as sound. It's like buying a mobile phone, then complaining it doesn't make coffee. That's not the point of it at all!

I suppose the feeling is that if you are going to do something, don't do it in a half-arsed way.

The point I made earlier with the ICC series is that there's is no point having 3D graphics if they are so jerky and outdated that they actually detract from the game's core gameplay and present a bad look.

If the graphics and sound are not going to be done well, then why do them at all?

[Donners]

I don't think management games will ever be mainstream, Amaroq. There's an effort by EA to sort of dumb down a lot of the technical side for people who simulate through the games on FIFA or Madden, but I'd imagine those management games would just whet the appetite for a game like FM. Still, growth potential in America is going to be limited to the fringes of the gaming world. There are a lot of really great management games out there, ranging from baseball to college (American) football to basketball. Their survival remains in the hands of small but dedicated communities and volunteer programmers, however.

There's a "great" basketball manager around? Which one? All the ones I've tried have been mediocre or worse.

[Svenc]

Damn, seems I'm late. The culprit is already taken down.

Football is not just goals scored and matches played ... yes that is the main part but the game as a whole is so much more and SI would do well IMO to consider that. Maybe displaying intelligence deeper than a toaster oven by not just rubbishing other's opinion but actualy looking a little deeper and see if they can see why a new user may come away with that type of impression. And perhaps see if there are any ways to draw users in and engage them without diluting the core game we love.

Just my opinion of course

A valid opinion that can be expressed through a review, yes. After all, particularly since Football Manager is still largely a text-based simulation with numbers crunshing a plenty, there's probably plenty people not being able to meet the rather steep entry level requirments that would make them suspend disbelief. Not so long ago there was a rather unique review of Neverwinter Nights 2 on 1UP, and while sharing a rather special view point, it was still a valid point explained. Public pressure made them pull it. Chickens. The problem I gathered through quotes that are still all over the web is, that, the IGN US review of FM09 totally missed the point of the game. This isn't somebody stating that the management aspects and numbers crunching a plenty of FM09 plain suck or something and then explaining why. The critique sounds like somebody reviewing Phoenix Wright on its frag rate. Or Mario Galaxy on its boob count.

[Donners]

I quite liked that NWN 2 review. There are people today who slam Fallout 2 for the graphics and slow combat. That is no more missing the point than these reviews.

[Svenc]

There are people today who slam Fallout 2 for the graphics and slow combat.

You forgot the plethora of bugs.

A reviewer's rant.

[Soul_Linneus]

That Burk guy is definitely being destroyed everywhere in the press:

http://newlevelgaming.blog-city.com/ign_sports_editor_offers_up_one_of_the_worst_reviews_ever.htm

http://kotaku.com/5103811/

http://www.rewiredmind.com/gaming/open-letter-ign-football-manager-2009

http://www.pcformat.co.uk/blog

[Donners]

You forgot the plethora of bugs.

A reviewer's rant.

Yet despite being ugly, slow and buggy, it still kicks the hell out of almost every other game.

Fallout 2 Restoration Pack rules. \o/

[Donners]

That Burk guy is definitely being destroyed everywhere in the press:

http://newlevelgaming.blog-city.com/ign_sports_editor_offers_up_one_of_the_worst_reviews_ever.htm

http://kotaku.com/5103811/

http://www.rewiredmind.com/gaming/open-letter-ign-football-manager-2009

http://www.pcformat.co.uk/blog

Not entirely.

"he does make some fair observations from the perspective of a FM virgin", "FM2009, though, doesn't hide the flaws well", "is right not to expect the same level of detail carried being over to the graphical presentation of the game as the DB behind it all", "maybe SI can take some useful pointers away from this review"

Seems to be the points I and others have been making. The review is not great, but it is a valid perspective which is representative of a sector of the market. To dismiss it out of hand is pointless.

[oranjeman]

why so many fanboys?

lol this is the best insult ever..... because it has no effect on the person who is being called it. i love how he tried to use it in a derogatory sense and failed.... cracks me up

I like how British folk bash the term soccer when they came up with the term in the first place.

But back to bashing Americans! BOO America!

grow up

[Les Girondins]

Rashafaragshagstypos.

[Roke]

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/936/936295p1.html

[..]

After seeing the community feedback and having more editors look at the title, we agree with the readers that our original review didn't give Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 a fair shake. Unfortunately, our critical analysis of WWSM '09 focused more on what the author wanted it to be rather than what the product actually was. We review games at IGN based on their own merits, and agree that it was unreasonable to compare WWSM '09 with action-oriented sports titles like FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer. Because of the unfair comparison, we have deemed the review unacceptable and have removed it from the site.

[...]

Jeremy Dunham

Games Editorial Manager, IGN.com

[DougyMarshall]

VICTORY!!!!

Can you hear the Avi sing? no.. no......

[oranjeman]

VICTORY!!!!

Can you hear the Avi sing? no.. no......

ya moms ya dad

ya dads ya mom

your inter bred

your Avi scum!

[MrPompey]

The review has been pulled and replace with an apology, seems sense has been seen after all

[Roberto Blanco]

AFAIK FM sells about 1.5 million copies of the pc version every year only in the UK. These figures should be enough to convince everyone especially the Americans that this is one of the best maybe even the best game you can play at present.

[Mike7077]

AFAIK FM sells about 1.5 million copies of the pc version every year only in the UK. These figures should be enough to convince everyone especially the Americans that this is one of the best maybe even the best game you can play at present.

Are you being tongue-in-cheek?

It's just... the fact something's popular in the UK doesn't mean it will convince Americans of its worth. I mean, think how many people in the UK watch Coronation Street. I bet you'd still have a job convincing Americans that the antics of Ken Barlow et al are television genius.

[Nomis07]

Are you being tongue-in-cheek?

It's just... the fact something's popular in the UK doesn't mean it will convince Americans of its worth. I mean, think how many people in the UK watch Coronation Street. I bet you'd still have a job convincing Americans that the antics of Ken Barlow et al are television genius.

Poor choice of character, Ken is one of my favourites, I would have went for Tyrones GF who looks like a pitbull.

[Ando THFC]

The PCFormat blog linked a few posts up speaks the most sense here. Yes, the review was flawed, but so is the game and the original reviewer had some fair points.

[Roberto Blanco]

Are you being tongue-in-cheek?

It's just... the fact something's popular in the UK doesn't mean it will convince Americans of its worth. I mean, think how many people in the UK watch Coronation Street. I bet you'd still have a job convincing Americans that the antics of Ken Barlow et al are television genius.

A product that has success has quality and afaik the Americans they adore the successfull.

[oranjeman]

LMAO theres an apology on the site in replacement of the review ...this saga has been absolutely gold!

i cant wait for their updated review!

[Mike7077]

A product that has success has quality and afaik the Americans they adore the successfull.

Yes, but Americans don't like taking the lead from other countries. It's partly why they have their own sports. The fact British people love the game doesn't mean Americans will too.

I'm not saying they won't either, though.

[auto98uk]

2 out of ten, aint far wrong. more like 0 out of ten

for a game that dont work on spanking new computers 0 is very generous

Except of course it works for the vast majority of people

[Mike7077]

Yeah, my computer is "spanking new" and the game works like a dream. I'd give it.... 9 out of 10.

[CaptainPlanet]

We really need to stop generalising the Americans as a nation, I'm very suprised by the xenophobic gang mentality on here sometimes.

I can't believe I've only just noticed this thread, has been a good read on the whole and the original review was such a laugh. I imagine IGN are feeling pretty silly right about now.

I can understand a lot of people giving it 2/10 for valid reasons, but comparing it to Fifa is just brilliant.