Beating Marco Rose & Becoming Oliver Glasner

[ExploitedSpace]

Hi everyone,

 

I am both a long-time lurker & an avid fan of the tactical side of football, I was hoping to challenge you all to think of ideas whilst helping me overcome my biggest rival in my save!

 

I am managing Real Sociedad, it's been a very enjoyable save so far. However, Marco Rose took over from Xavi (Barcelona) in the first year of the save, and he's been haunting me ever since. He has built a young and exciting squad (except Lewa) and sets them up in a 4222 system. The one he used at Leipzig. I have attached the lineup and tactics he employs below.

 

With the recent success of Xabi Alonso, Glasner, and Amorim at their respective clubs, I looked into their ideas and built my new tactic taking inspiration from each. But also, trying to combine it with an idea of a system that would match up well with Barcelona's. My idea was to match their box midfield with 4 midfielders of my own. My wingbacks would mark their full-backs, my DM's mark their 10's, and my 10's mark their DM's. It has not been as easy as that, unfortunately. I still give up numerous chances a game playing them. I have trapped them outside and put their only advancing full back (Balde) to his weak foot and pressed him any chance I get, he still dominates his flank (maybe he's just too good). I have considered playing more direct to bypass their press, I have considered floating crosses to my big 9 (Piccoli) as they have Kounde (5'10) in defence. I have tried it all. 

 

They remain both a thorn in my side and a reason I have beef with Marco Rose. I would be delighted if this opens a discussion on other people's ideas. Perhaps even involve Daljit (BusttheNet) as I am a huge fan of his too. Thank you!!

[El Payaso]

I think you need to take into account the fact that Barcelona have better players to throw in for every position. This for me means that you should maybe try and look areas to exploit them.

If you want to keep the basic defensive idea the same, I would look into trying to double up the flanks when attacking. This could happen by dropping the AMs to MC position and using double mezzala which would still do their defensive work mainly in the middle but they would occupy the flanks when attacking. 

Another option could be moving the AMs to AML and AMR positions and possibly instruct them then to man mark the opposition DMs. 

As neither of these would be asymmetric formations, this approach wouldn't probably be any kind of ME exploit either. 

[ExploitedSpace]

32 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

I think you need to take into account the fact that Barcelona have better players to throw in for every position. This for me means that you should maybe try and look areas to exploit them.

If you want to keep the basic defensive idea the same, I would look into trying to double up the flanks when attacking. This could happen by dropping the AMs to MC position and using double mezzala which would still do their defensive work mainly in the middle but they would occupy the flanks when attacking. 

Another option could be moving the AMs to AML and AMR positions and possibly instruct them then to man mark the opposition DMs. 

As neither of these would be asymmetric formations, this approach wouldn't probably be any kind of ME exploit either. 

I tried moving the AM's to the AML & AMR slots, but I felt like they were not marking the DM's well enough to be worth the extra width. I also feel like having 2 Mezzala's and 2 DM's behind (with no wingers) could make us very blunt in attack. I will definitely try this next time I meet them though, thank you for your reply.

[bosque]

I like the idea of man-marking their box midfield but I think that Counter-Press and Press More Often are letting you down because those instructions are shape breakers and as Barcelona have better players they may be distrupting your man to man marking. I would try leaving your defensive transition blank (No Counter-Press nor Regroup) and to leave the pressing trigger on standard or even on less often. So they have to work hard to play around you instead of through you.

Edited May 10 by bosque

[Fox-7-]

I'd try to reduce the pressing triggers as said by bosque because they are very capable of escaping from your pressing, so remove Counter-press and tone down to Standard pressing, and try to set OIs on their GK and CBs to never tight marking and never press them, so your front players should focus more on closing passing lanes towards the DMs. Try to compress the space vertically by setting a higher DL instead of Step up more, and you should trap them outside where they have no players. 

Another weapon is to force them out of position when you have the ball, so if they gain possession they mustn't be in optimal positions to build their attack. Try to build up from the fullbacks, play on fairly wide attacking width, focus play on the wings...

[ExploitedSpace]

55 minutes ago, bosque said:

I like the idea of man-marking their box midfield but I think that Counter-Press and Press More Often are letting you down because those instructions are shape breakers and as Barcelona have better players they may be distrupting your man to man marking. I would try leaving your defensive transition blank (No Counter-Press nor Regroup) and to leave the pressing trigger on standard or even on less often. So they have to work hard to play around you instead of through you.

Thanks for the reply! See I considered the less pressing and sitting off. They have a lot of players that can play killer balls and hurt us though, I felt giving them less time on the ball was a good idea. I will try your suggestions though!

[ExploitedSpace]

20 minutes ago, Fox-7- said:

I'd try to reduce the pressing triggers as said by bosque because they are very capable of escaping from your pressing, so remove Counter-press and tone down to Standard pressing, and try to set OIs on their GK and CBs to never tight marking and never press them, so your front players should focus more on closing passing lanes towards the DMs. Try to compress the space vertically by setting a higher DL instead of Step up more, and you should trap them outside where they have no players. 

Another weapon is to force them out of position when you have the ball, so if they gain possession they mustn't be in optimal positions to build their attack. Try to build up from the fullbacks, play on fairly wide attacking width, focus play on the wings...

I didn't consider the OI's on the GK and CB's affecting my pressing and marking negatively, good point!  I trapped them outside numerous times but Balde was a nightmare to defend  I am going to try the OI stuff and play fairly wide with width. Thanks for the suggestions  

[bosque]

Consider having your BWM(s) on your right (Balde's side) because he will step up more and help your right wingback agains Balde, especially if the BWM has good workrate, teamwork and aggression. Besides, in my opinion, swapping your pivots will give you better use of the space. BWM and WB will be closer to the AM on attack. DLP on defend will better cover your attacking wingback and your supporting AM can use the pocket of space the DLP don't use because he holds position.

[ExploitedSpace]

34 minutes ago, bosque said:

Consider having your BWM(s) on your right (Balde's side) because he will step up more and help your right wingback agains Balde, especially if the BWM has good workrate, teamwork and aggression. Besides, in my opinion, swapping your pivots will give you better use of the space. BWM and WB will be closer to the AM on attack. DLP on defend will better cover your attacking wingback and your supporting AM can use the pocket of space the DLP don't use because he holds position.

My idea behind that was avoiding having two playmakers on the one side! 

[Cloud9]

6 hours ago, ExploitedSpace said:

Hi everyone,

 

I am both a long-time lurker & an avid fan of the tactical side of football, I was hoping to challenge you all to think of ideas whilst helping me overcome my biggest rival in my save!

 

I am managing Real Sociedad, it's been a very enjoyable save so far. However, Marco Rose took over from Xavi (Barcelona) in the first year of the save, and he's been haunting me ever since. He has built a young and exciting squad (except Lewa) and sets them up in a 4222 system. The one he used at Leipzig. I have attached the lineup and tactics he employs below.

 

With the recent success of Xabi Alonso, Glasner, and Amorim at their respective clubs, I looked into their ideas and built my new tactic taking inspiration from each. But also, trying to combine it with an idea of a system that would match up well with Barcelona's. My idea was to match their box midfield with 4 midfielders of my own. My wingbacks would mark their full-backs, my DM's mark their 10's, and my 10's mark their DM's. It has not been as easy as that, unfortunately. I still give up numerous chances a game playing them. I have trapped them outside and put their only advancing full back (Balde) to his weak foot and pressed him any chance I get, he still dominates his flank (maybe he's just too good). I have considered playing more direct to bypass their press, I have considered floating crosses to my big 9 (Piccoli) as they have Kounde (5'10) in defence. I have tried it all. 

 

They remain both a thorn in my side and a reason I have beef with Marco Rose. I would be delighted if this opens a discussion on other people's ideas. Perhaps even involve Daljit (BusttheNet) as I am a huge fan of his too. Thank you!!

Edit forget everything I said, here's how you beat this Barcelona formation. 

• First of all you want to go with your midblock counter variation against one of the big boys, taking the game to far superior players leaves you exposed.
• Both wingbacks on attack (no one contests the wide areas for them) and distribute directly to them. Open up width and play down flanks + fairly direct.
• Remove TIs hurting your defensive shape and slowing down your transitions: "counter press, play out of defence, step up more etc." WCB(s) might leave you too exposed in matches where you're under a lot of pressure.
  • I'd swap Kossounou to the center and play Okumu as a WCB(d). Usually you want your highest quality CB to be the center of the 3 and Kossounous height + pace and mentals will give your defence some real fortitude. 

Their formation offers no width which means they will struggle to pull you out of your defence...so let them have the ball. When you turn possession you can play down the open space on their wings.

Key point: You are not a threat to Barcelona with your current setup. Your solo 9 CF(a) has the speed of a potato (12)  and vision 9? It's a no for me.

• Fortunately you have a Zaniolo. You can play a striker partnership (3-4-1-2) of a TF(s) Piccoli with Zaniolo as a PF(a). Suddenly, you can score goals on turnovers! Zaniolo is quick with passable goalscoring mentals. He is an actual threat to Barcelona as the spearheading striker (where as if I see Piccoli leading the line as a CF(A) I'm swamping you with pressure and what are you going to do about it?). TF(s) on Piccoli will give you a long ball knock down option, which is excellent against a side like Barcelona.
• The other big problem is your goalkeeper is not great for matches like this. Jumping reach 12 and fairly poor shot stopping? Could be decent against teams where you want to focus on building up out of the back, but against Barcelona it's a disaster.

Barcelona still has higher quality players so it will be a difficult match, but there is much to exploit from their setup. If their wingbacks were lined up to bomb on then this kind of 4-2-2-2 formation can be really formidable, but as is they've given you the opportunity to nullify their attacks.

• All that being said: with your current squad, particularly the goalkeeper, Barcelona is likely a bridge too far for you most of the time. The striker partnership + charging wingbacks on the midblock will get you in with a shout, but if you want to consistently take matches off the big boys you need a squad w/attributes capable of doing so. 

Edited May 10 by Cloud9

[ExploitedSpace]

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

Edit forget everything I said, here's how you beat this Barcelona formation. 

• First of all you want to go with your midblock counter variation against one of the big boys, taking the game to far superior players leaves you exposed.
• Both wingbacks on attack (no one contests the wide areas for them) and distribute directly to them. Open up width and play down flanks + fairly direct.
• Remove TIs hurting your defensive shape and slowing down your transitions: "counter press, play out of defence, step up more etc." WCB(s) might leave you too exposed in matches where you're under a lot of pressure.
  • I'd swap Kossounou to the center and play Okumu as a WCB(d). Usually you want your highest quality CB to be the center of the 3 and Kossounous height + pace and mentals will give your defence some real fortitude. 

Their formation offers no width which means they will struggle to pull you out of your defence...so let them have the ball. When you turn possession you can play down the open space on their wings.

Key point: You are not a threat to Barcelona with your current setup. Your solo 9 CF(a) has the speed of a potato (12)  and vision 9? It's a no for me.

• Fortunately you have a Zaniolo. You can play a striker partnership (3-4-1-2) of a TF(s) Piccoli with Zaniolo as a PF(a). Suddenly, you can score goals on turnovers! Zaniolo is quick with passable goalscoring mentals. He is an actual threat to Barcelona as the spearheading striker (where as if I see Piccoli leading the line as a CF(A) I'm swamping you with pressure and what are you going to do about it?). TF(s) on Piccoli will give you a long ball knock down option, which is excellent against a side like Barcelona.
• The other big problem is your goalkeeper is not great for matches like this. Jumping reach 12 and fairly poor shot stopping? Could be decent against teams where you want to focus on building up out of the back, but against Barcelona it's a disaster.

Barcelona still has higher quality players so it will be a difficult match, but there is much to exploit from their setup. If their wingbacks were lined up to bomb on then this kind of 4-2-2-2 formation can be really formidable, but as is they've given you the opportunity to nullify their attacks.

• All that being said: with your current squad, particularly the goalkeeper, Barcelona is likely a bridge too far for you most of the time. The striker partnership + charging wingbacks on the midblock will get you in with a shout, but if you want to consistently take matches off the big boys you need a squad w/attributes capable of doing so. 

Firstly, thanks for your time with this! It’s obvious you know your stuff.
 

My striker position is usually rotated with Piccoli & Abel Ruiz (who is more suited to the CF role). But I will keep that in mind and change the role to suit Piccoli when he’s being used. I have since changed the outside WCB to a BPD and the central CB to a normal CD. This has changed my fortunes dramatically to say the least. Good point on using Kossounou as the central CB too. I am going to also aim to replace my keeper soon, he’s very hot and cold albeit good with his feet.

It’s actually funny you mention a 3412. I created one earlier to have as a backup when both Piccoli & Ruiz are fit and it’s been immense so far. I aim far post to Piccoli with crosses and he’s scoring a goal or more a game. The formation been a great addition to my arsenal.

I’m going to use all I learned from this thread for the next time I face Barca! Hopefully it changed my fortunes. 
 

thanks for this again!

[bosque]

2 strikers and speed upfront is great advice for counters! You can't go wrong with DLF + AF combo

[Cloud9]

20 hours ago, ExploitedSpace said:

Firstly, thanks for your time with this! It’s obvious you know your stuff.
 

My striker position is usually rotated with Piccoli & Abel Ruiz (who is more suited to the CF role). But I will keep that in mind and change the role to suit Piccoli when he’s being used. I have since changed the outside WCB to a BPD and the central CB to a normal CD. This has changed my fortunes dramatically to say the least. Good point on using Kossounou as the central CB too. I am going to also aim to replace my keeper soon, he’s very hot and cold albeit good with his feet.

It’s actually funny you mention a 3412. I created one earlier to have as a backup when both Piccoli & Ruiz are fit and it’s been immense so far. I aim far post to Piccoli with crosses and he’s scoring a goal or more a game. The formation been a great addition to my arsenal.

I’m going to use all I learned from this thread for the next time I face Barca! Hopefully it changed my fortunes. 
 

thanks for this again!

On different potential strike variations:

• A solo TF can struggle, I would only look to deploy Piccoli with a partner.
• Abel Ruiz looks like a strong CF when your lines are pushed up, but he's also fairly one paced (14, 14) and has really poor off the ball (12) which is key for a headline goalscorer in a tactic. 
  • CF roaming is a positive when you're looking to break teams down, but potentially detrimental in a mid block. Keep in mind that many roaming roles will need others to work hard for him, so if he's not one of your key players it may not be worth it. 

Zaniolo is the forward I would recommend building your frontline around because he offers something the others don't (Ie. physicality and a unique pressing profile out of possession). He makes space for the players around him by stretching the pitch w/his pace and closing down opponents aggressively off the ball (like your talented AP who I would rather have on the ball in creative situations than Ruiz). 

• He's also got the attributes to play as a solo 9 if you want to keep the original 3-4-2-1 setup. Again it's really rare to find a striker with this high of Strength/Speed/Aerial ability/Aggression and he will ask questions of opposition defenders that Piccoli and Ruiz can't.

Hope that helps

Edited May 11 by Cloud9