OI press always and TI much more often

[Aoyao]

Hi guys

Here is a question.

What's the difference between TI press much more often and OI ALL player Press always?

 

I means when I set TI like this

or I set OI like this

Are they going to do the same works and intensity?

Edited January 29 by Aoyao

[whatsupdoc]

No idea, but i'm interested to find out! Have you tested it?

[Bahnzo]

I've watched this video a couple times, and I think he does a good job of explaining exactly what the TI press does. In a nutshell, it controls how far individual players will go out of their way to press the ball. As in, how far from their position will they go in order to press. The OI press instruction seems to control whether or not a player is pressed, although I can set it to never press a player, and I'll see him still trigger a press when he has the ball. I wonder if the TI pressing has to do with that? 
 

 

[Aoyao]

4 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

I've watched this video a couple times, and I think he does a good job of explaining exactly what the TI press does. In a nutshell, it controls how far individual players will go out of their way to press the ball. As in, how far from their position will they go in order to press.
 

 

  

On 24/09/2021 at 16:49, Rashidi said:

PRESSING HAS BEEN REWORKED

FM22 has a new pressing AI.  As a manager you set your tactics up using all the tools at your disposal. During the course of a game, the pressing AI will kick in based on your choices and in-game events. In-game events can include a number of natural pressing triggers that are listed below as well as any others you could have assigned using the various options in the game.

An example: 
Much Higher Line of Engagement
Attacking Mentality
Maximum Pressing Intensity
Prevent Short GK
OI backline

In a setting like this, your striker will most likely work hard to close down the backline in most cases when the opposition has the ball with the backline. As the game wears on, there are going to be times when he elects to stand off. This could happen with an in game event eg. the ball is heading nowhere. Or he could opt to press someone aggressively because the defender has had a loose touch. 

If the striker has low stamina and a high work rate, he could conceivably wear himself out earlier and struggle later, but if he has good decisions he could opt to exercise his judgement and choose to close down only when a natural trigger happens, regardless of the OIs you are using. 
 

Pressing has been reworked in FM22 to incorporate the proper concept of pressing triggers. These are events that happen in the game that trigger a press from nearby players. Depending on your defensive width and your overall pressing instructions, these could affect one player or more than one player.

In previous editions of the game we needed to choose things like a split or a flank block to encourage pressing traps. In FM22, these aren’t as necessary because now the players will automatically press if several conditions occur and whether a player is close enough. This will also work in tandem with your line of engagement. So you shouldn’t be expecting to see a striker close down a midfielder if you are playing with a much higher line of engagement, if there is someone closer.

These natural pressing triggers include and are not limited to:

Bad Touch

When a player takes a bad touch, he may be off balance and they struggle to sort their feet out. This is a perfect condition for a pressing trigger. The trigger is the event (poor touch) that encourages an opponent to initiate the press if he is close enough.

Back to Goal

When a player receives the ball with his back to goal, this becomes a trigger. He needs to turn and that triggers someone to press him so that he might be caught off balance or is forced to pass the ball back instead of turning and shooting.

Weaker Foot

In the game of football manager there are two ways we can affect a player who has a weaker foot. We can use OIs in combination with the knowledge that a player has a weak foot. Now this is much harder to pull off in the game and can sometimes work if used in conjunction with OIs.

Hesitation

Some players dwell on the ball, others simply have poor decision making, or you could be playing on low tempo with players with poor composure. Under any of these circumstances a player could hesitate and this becomes a pressing trigger for someone close to press a player.

Edge of the field

This is another pressing trigger which should work in tandem with OIs, and this is where things get interesting. In some cases you may just want to press a player and force him to the line, lose the ball, and give up a throw-in. And other times you may want to allow him inside because its his weaker foot and then win the ball off him after he loses control so you can quickly counter.

Loose/ Slow Pass

This is essentially a basic trigger in football. When a loose pass is made, the opponent if close enough should press.

TRIGGERING THE PRESS

When you start the game, it will seem that the only thing that has changed is a simple UI renaming change, when in reality much more work has gone into the AI of pressing.  Pressing will not only depend on the pressing trigger but how this works with everything else from LOE/DL, roles and duties, a players attributes and whether or not you use opposition instructions. OIs still play a part but in the grander scheme the other instructions and a players attributes are a lot more important. So don't worry if you are the sort who doesn't like using them.  I don't use press conferences or team talks to influence my matches either.

Players are more likely to obey the LOE for example and a players conditioning will also play a part. If your plan is to play gegen pressing for 90 mins, the ability of your team to do this will depend on their conditioning during the course of the game and this means stamina takes on more importance. If you are not using Opposition Instructions to trigger the press, you may find yourself in situations where the ball transitions through the tiers without resistance. OIs can help and can be used to show players onto another foot, which means you can also direct where they are forced to play.  

Pressing a player isn't just the act of closing down a player and winning the ball off him, it's the act of closing down a player and also removing his passing options. 

Factors that will affect pressing

There are going to be numerous events in a game that can affect them, for example.  A wingback is out of position and an opposition player is in a dangerous position, this may trigger a press from the nearest player. There are also other factors to consider too.

 Line of engagement - You are less likely to trigger a press beyond that line (but not impossible if there's a clear chance to win the ball they'll go for it).

- Pressing TI - how much of a reason does your team need to press. If you have set a higher pressing intensity, a team is more likely to break its shape to try and win the ball, which can be good or bad. If your threshold is lower then its more likely to hold its shape and cut off spaces till more obvious reasons to press come up.

- Defensive width - Force inside/outside will affect how the team triggers presses in the middle/wide areas of the pitch. This also affects the angles in which players press and cut off passing options.

- OI - 'pressing ' OI - If you're in a high press it's recommended to use this on a defender in the opposition backline that is particularly poor on the ball in terms of first touch, composure etc. Your team will wait for the ball to be played to them before applying pressure and hopefully forcing them into errors. You can also still use this on high-threat players in the opposition team, but be wary since if you use this on a really good ball-player such as a Jorginho, it might work but it might also backfire since they also have the skills to beat the press.

- Other OIs affect the pressing angles, but not the trigger itself. So weaker foot instructions will affect the angle in which players press but not the trigger. Although bear in mind players will be aware of the opposition player's footedness and adjust their pressing angle accordingly already.

Your shape/formation affects things too e.g. if you play a 4231, when pressing your AMC and ST will shape up like a front 2.

That's just a general summary of the changes to the pressing AI within FM22

 

 

Press has been reworked.

[Bahnzo]

2 hours ago, Aoyao said:

  

Press has been reworked.

That's from Fm22. In the video, he shows examples of how the TI pressing triggers at something like a radius from the player and setting it higher and lower seems to affect how large that radius is. 

Edited January 30 by Bahnzo

[Cloud9]

On 28/01/2024 at 18:38, Aoyao said:

Hi guys

Here is a question.

What's the difference between TI press much more often and OI ALL player Press always?

 

I means when I set TI like this

or I set OI like this

Are they going to do the same works and intensity?

The OI tells your players to trigger press the opposition player when he receives the ball. Using it on more than 3-4 players will see your team pulled out of shape and easily played through. 

The TI trigger press more often (maxed) instructs your players to be less discriminate about when to try to win the ball back. A "press trigger" may be a bad first touch or a player receiving the ball with his back to your goal etc. At maxed players will try to win the ball back at lower percentage trigger chances than if you instruct them to be more patient.

Personally, I would recommend avoiding both approaches. However, the TI is workable depending on your tactic/squad and the OI (all selected) is generally not. I suppose Bielsa might disagree on the later, but his football is driven by a cult of personality which is difficult (if not impossible) to replicate in a match engine format.

For anyone feeling confused, I would strongly recommend selecting no more than 3-4 opposition instructions (less if you're utilizing man marking) to avoid doing more harm than good. Pressing dribbly boys, quick players, and press resistant players will actually give your opponent the advantage. You can use in match pass maps to try to cut the ball out at source, going after the player who is passing the ball to these players instead. Keep in mind that instructions like "show onto foot" are pressing instructions in themselves.  

Edited January 30 by Cloud9

[Rashidi]

On 29/01/2024 at 10:38, Aoyao said:

Here is a question.

What's the difference between TI press much more often and OI ALL player Press always?

OI targets a specific opposition player. 
PI targets your own players and instructs them to modify their behaviour.

OIs, TIs and PIs work synergistically  with roles and duties, traits and Mentality.

You can't think of OIs and PIs as zero sum instructions. In other words, if you told a player to play it shorter but your team instructions are play more direct and he is playing as a No Nonsense CB, then his role predicates that he might not always play it short. So a player instruction tends to modify the behavior slightly or more depending on what you choose. The only exception is tackle harder and ease off tackles. That is simply an instruction to go to ground to make a tackle or stay on your feet. There is no degree for a tackle, and this in turn is influenced by a players attributes, the role you have chosen and the overall mentality of the team. So while some may think or assert that a player instruction overrides a team instruction, the more accurate explanation is that it has a tendency to change it slightly, and this in turn will be affected by your mentality and the role.

Finally PIs and OIs in turn have to work with other team instructions. For instance if you were to trigger press at maximum for the whole team, and then chose to play a system with a much higher defensive line and a high block, you could end up creating zonal overlaps. This means that more than one player will be asked to react to a pressing trigger. So if an opposition player turns his back and shields the ball, and he is in a zone that potentially has 3 overlapping opposition players, then all 3 might get closer, which in turn opens up space that could be exploited should your players fail to force a mistake that results in  a turnover in possession. 

If I played a low defensive line and a high block there is a gap between my backline and attack. Now if my attack had nothing but attacking duties and my backline was all defend duties, then I might see failed transitions resulting in players running at my defence and the strikers not coming back in time to support. In this case, an aggressive trigger press might get me in trouble. But since my backline is so deep, I need to ask them to defend right? Then in this case I could apply hard tackling to the backline as a PI so they would commit being the only line of defence. Another option could be for me to use OIs and just tell them to specifically target wingers only with hard tackles. When I do that the OI kicks in whenever that opposition player enters the zone of one my players. IF for any reason my striker was helping to defend for some reason and he was next to the winger - he would hard tackle, if his attributes were in the right place.

OIs, TIs and PIs are just parts of a tactic, the whole of any tactical system includes mentality, roles and duties too. 

[CAE82]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

So while some may think or assert that a player instruction overrides a team instruction, the more accurate explanation is that it has a tendency to change it slightly, and this in turn will be affected by your mentality and the role

The official manual states that the team work attibute comes into play here:

"Teamwork

How well the player follows tactical instructions and works for and alongside their teammates. A team full of players with a high rating here works better as a unit. Players with lower ratings slack off and do not ‘buy in’ to the team ethos, becoming more individual, and not providing adequate support for their teammates. It is also used to help decide whether or not a player opts to use one of their Player Traits ahead of a tactical instruction."

[Mst82]

14 hours ago, CAE82 said:

The official manual states that the team work attibute comes into play here:

"Teamwork

How well the player follows tactical instructions and works for and alongside their teammates. A team full of players with a high rating here works better as a unit. Players with lower ratings slack off and do not ‘buy in’ to the team ethos, becoming more individual, and not providing adequate support for their teammates. It is also used to help decide whether or not a player opts to use one of their Player Traits ahead of a tactical instruction."

Say I’m managing a lower league team where the player ratings are low by nature. What is then considered a high teamwork rating? If my highest teamwork player is 12 and the rest are at 8, what does that mean for a tactic? Will they all do what they want?

On the flip side, what is considered a high teamwork rating in a top side? Will Roony Bardgjhi do as he is told with a teamwork rating of 13 when everyone else might be at 15+?

I find it all so subjective and ambiguous personally. 

[Rashidi]

3 hours ago, Mst82 said:

Say I’m managing a lower league team where the player ratings are low by nature. What is then considered a high teamwork rating? If my highest teamwork player is 12 and the rest are at 8, what does that mean for a tactic? Will they all do what they want?

On the flip side, what is considered a high teamwork rating in a top side? Will Roony Bardgjhi do as he is told with a teamwork rating of 13 when everyone else might be at 15+?

I find it all so subjective and ambiguous personally. 

Attributes are relative to the league you are in. If everyone in that league is at 12 and your player is at 8 your player is weaker relative to the league. So check the team comparison attributes in the game from the data hub to see how your players stack up to the rest of the league.

[Mst82]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

Attributes are relative to the league you are in. If everyone in that league is at 12 and your player is at 8 your player is weaker relative to the league. So check the team comparison attributes in the game from the data hub to see how your players stack up to the rest of the league.

That doesn’t answer the question though does it?

[whatsupdoc]

On 01/02/2024 at 17:38, Mst82 said:

Say I’m managing a lower league team where the player ratings are low by nature. What is then considered a high teamwork rating? If my highest teamwork player is 12 and the rest are at 8, what does that mean for a tactic? Will they all do what they want?

On the flip side, what is considered a high teamwork rating in a top side? Will Roony Bardgjhi do as he is told with a teamwork rating of 13 when everyone else might be at 15+?

I find it all so subjective and ambiguous personally. 

The Teamwork attribute isn't about "doing what they're told" or "doing what they want" - that comes down to creative freedom, which is modified mainly by the "be more expressive" or "be more disciplined" Team Instructions. 

Teamwork I mostly think about as tracking back. 

[Rashidi]

21 hours ago, Mst82 said:

That doesn’t answer the question though does it?

I said it’s relative to the league you are in, so it needs checking whenever you play the game. How in the world should I know the averages in YOUR game. Stop being lazy and looking for the easy way out. There is some effort required with the game. Otherwise go play tic tac toe.

[NineCloudNine]

11 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I said it’s relative to the league you are in, so it needs checking whenever you play the game. How in the world should I know the averages in YOUR game. Stop being lazy and looking for the easy way out. There is some effort required with the game. Otherwise go play tic tac toe.

This isn't worthy of you.

[Cloud9]

On 01/02/2024 at 03:32, Mst82 said:

That doesn’t answer the question though does it?

You can view how your squad compares to others in the league via the squad planner for a basic benchmark. Other than that it just comes with experience as you play. If you're playing in the top few flights I would view 12 as a good rule of thumb for competency in an attribute. 

On 02/02/2024 at 00:00, whatsupdoc said:

The Teamwork attribute isn't about "doing what they're told" or "doing what they want" - that comes down to creative freedom, which is modified mainly by the "be more expressive" or "be more disciplined" Team Instructions. 

Teamwork I mostly think about as tracking back. 

@CAE82 has outlined what teamwork does above pretty comprehensively, but it does impact the ability for player's to follow team instructions and work with their team on the field of play. TIs like be more expressive & be more disciplined are a bit like flair modifiers with some strings attached if I recall correctly. 

I thought this was a nice explanation from @Cleon on the subject:

Edited February 3 by Cloud9

[Mst82]

23 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I said it’s relative to the league you are in, so it needs checking whenever you play the game. How in the world should I know the averages in YOUR game. Stop being lazy and looking for the easy way out. There is some effort required with the game. Otherwise go play tic tac toe.

I have no idea what tic tac toe is. How do you know what a good teamwork stat is, in tic tac toes?

[Aoyao]

It's done.

[Aoyao]

On 29/01/2024 at 10:38, Aoyao said:

Hi guys

Here is a question.

What's the difference between TI press much more often and OI ALL player Press always?

 

I means when I set TI like this

or I set OI like this

Are they going to do the same works and intensity?

TI means MUCH MORE OFTEN

OI means ALWAYS PRESS.