Player attributes as related to player roles and duties

[umole2k]

Good day FM community. I really need your input on this. In football manager a player that has certain attributes and is given a role to perform, if he has the attribute but the role doesn't allow him use it will he still perform the role? For example I have a midfielder who has good off the ball and positioning but the role assigned to him is deep lying playmaker on defend. The highlights positioning but since the player has good off the ball attributes, will he execute that off the ball attribute also?

[b2khn]

The Player does not lose attributes.

[Cloud9]

7 hours ago, umole2k said:

Good day FM community. I really need your input on this. In football manager a player that has certain attributes and is given a role to perform, if he has the attribute but the role doesn't allow him use it will he still perform the role? For example I have a midfielder who has good off the ball and positioning but the role assigned to him is deep lying playmaker on defend. The highlights positioning but since the player has good off the ball attributes, will he execute that off the ball attribute also?

The highlighted attributes are only what the game suggests you prioritize for the position. He'll use all his attributes as he plays. 

Off the ball can help a DLP with a trait of come's deep to get the ball. In general, off the ball isn't too important for a DLP player. You don't have to play him as a DLP either.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Cloud9

[Rashidi]

All attributes are used by players during different phases. Those attributes are for the designated role you want him to play in. Those are highlighted because they are suggested attributes. The algorithm in the game also uses that to drive training, however a player can also develop other attributes because these are also needed.

For example a players marking attribute becomes needed when he is expected to tight mark, high block press etc. So don’t take a narrow approach to the game. Every attribute has a role to play and different attributes kick in at different phases.

[umole2k]

2 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

The highlighted attributes are only want the game suggests you prioritize for the position. He'll use all his attributes as he plays. 

Off the ball can help a DLP with a trait of come's deep to get the ball. In general, off the ball isn't too important for a DLP player. You don't have to play him as a DLP either.

I used the DLP as an example because the player in question had 14 as off the ball attribute and 14 as positioning attribute but the role suggests that only positioning can be used in that mental aspect of the players attribute

Edited December 4, 2023 by umole2k

[duncanjmcintyre]

It's not telling you "what can be used", it's highlighting what it considers important attributes for that role and duty.

[umole2k]

In a nutshell and in summary what I meant by my post is that a player has XYZ attributes and the role assigned to him uses X and Z as key attributes for that role. Does that mean if he is trying to perform the role he will also use the Y attribute? 

[duncanjmcintyre]

3 hours ago, umole2k said:

In a nutshell and in summary what I meant by my post is that a player has XYZ attributes and the role assigned to him uses X and Z as key attributes for that role. Does that mean if he is trying to perform the role he will also use the Y attribute? 

Yes.

[umole2k]

I'm glad you asked! Player attributes and roles work together to determine how a player will perform on the pitch. The attributes are the individual skills and abilities of the player, while the role is the specific instructions that are given to the player on the field. For example, a player with high dribbling and pace attributes might be a good fit for the "winger" role, which focuses on running down the wing and beating defenders. Do you have any specific questions about attributes and roles?
The short answer is no, a player will not perform an attribute if their role does not allow it. In your example, a player with a high work rate attribute would not necessarily work harder if they are playing a role that does not call for a high work rate. In other words, the role takes priority over the attributes. Does that help to answer your question?

[herne79]

9 minutes ago, umole2k said:

I'm glad you asked! Player attributes and roles work together to determine how a player will perform on the pitch. The attributes are the individual skills and abilities of the player, while the role is the specific instructions that are given to the player on the field. For example, a player with high dribbling and pace attributes might be a good fit for the "winger" role, which focuses on running down the wing and beating defenders. Do you have any specific questions about attributes and roles?
The short answer is no, a player will not perform an attribute if their role does not allow it. In your example, a player with a high work rate attribute would not necessarily work harder if they are playing a role that does not call for a high work rate. In other words, the role takes priority over the attributes. Does that help to answer your question?

Where did you get these answers from?

[umole2k]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Where did you get these answers from?

A.I Chat Gpt

[lied90]

1 minute ago, umole2k said:

A.I Chat Gpt

ChatGPT is horrible for FM.

[umole2k]

26 minutes ago, lied90 said:

ChatGPT is horrible for FM.

Only if you ask it the right questions cos the answers it has given me, i have implemented them in my save and got results 

[herne79]

40 minutes ago, umole2k said:

A.I Chat Gpt

Hmm ok, however this part at least is wrong:

1 hour ago, umole2k said:

The short answer is no, a player will not perform an attribute if their role does not allow it. In your example, a player with a high work rate attribute would not necessarily work harder if they are playing a role that does not call for a high work rate. In other words, the role takes priority over the attributes.

As @Rashidi has said above, all attributes will be used during various phases.  This is why different players will play the same role differently.  To continue the example quoted, if you use a player with low work rate, aggression, determination in combination with the Trequartista role he’ll play the role very differently from a player with high attributes in those areas.

ChatGPT can be ok in certain respects but don’t rely on it .

[ibrahim.akbyk]

1 saat önce, umole2k said:

I'm glad you asked! Player attributes and roles work together to determine how a player will perform on the pitch. The attributes are the individual skills and abilities of the player, while the role is the specific instructions that are given to the player on the field. For example, a player with high dribbling and pace attributes might be a good fit for the "winger" role, which focuses on running down the wing and beating defenders. Do you have any specific questions about attributes and roles?
The short answer is no, a player will not perform an attribute if their role does not allow it. In your example, a player with a high work rate attribute would not necessarily work harder if they are playing a role that does not call for a high work rate. In other words, the role takes priority over the attributes. Does that help to answer your question?

I dont think so. For example; Even a player which was chosen for easy tackling, you could see his hard and bad time tackling and get a red card if he has this low sportmenship etc. Or, even if a player which was chosen not to dribble, you could see him dribbling fair enough if he has high dribbling and traits etc. Or, think about DLF with Offside trap trais etc.

[NineCloudNine]

1 hour ago, umole2k said:

The short answer is no, a player will not perform an attribute if their role does not allow it. In your example, a player with a high work rate attribute would not necessarily work harder if they are playing a role that does not call for a high work rate. In other words, the role takes priority over the attributes. Does that help to answer your question?

This is just flat-out wrong.

[CapitalismReimagined]

I think OP is just trolling us. 

[Rashidi]

3 hours ago, umole2k said:

I'm glad you asked! Player attributes and roles work together to determine how a player will perform on the pitch. The attributes are the individual skills and abilities of the player, while the role is the specific instructions that are given to the player on the field. For example, a player with high dribbling and pace attributes might be a good fit for the "winger" role, which focuses on running down the wing and beating defenders. Do you have any specific questions about attributes and roles?
The short answer is no, a player will not perform an attribute if their role does not allow it. In your example, a player with a high work rate attribute would not necessarily work harder if they are playing a role that does not call for a high work rate. In other words, the role takes priority over the attributes. Does that help to answer your question?

ChatGPT sources its answers from guides written by people on the web and not all guides are accurate. On a stream I challenged chatGPT, gave out wrong answers, and then I gave other sources that were accurate, chatGPT then corrected itself. The only way ChatGPT will ever be right is when the person querying it already knows the correct answers which renders its use for tactics moot.

Where ChatGPT can be strong is research, and that’s how I use it. I’ve used ChatGPT to help with my Dr Jit tool, I’ve also used it when I was doing research on other aspects of the game, but I had to continually verify the answers.

U can check its sources for information all the time, there are so many areas of info about the match engine which aren’t in the public domain,  its make me wonder how people can assume that it knows what it’s talking about.

[umole2k]

So in a scenario were i have a central midfielder on support who has off the ball attribute and the role allows him to perform that skill and i give the player a player instruction such as hold position, does that mean who wont move off the ball or he will hold position and move off the ball?

[ceefax the cat]

He'll do what you ask him to. If you ask a bricklayer to make a cup of tea - even a really good bricklayer - he's unlikely to feel the need to put bricks in it

Edited January 18 by ceefax the cat

[NineCloudNine]

6 hours ago, umole2k said:

So in a scenario were i have a central midfielder on support who has off the ball attribute and the role allows him to perform that skill and i give the player a player instruction such as hold position, does that mean who wont move off the ball or he will hold position and move off the ball?

“Off the ball” isn’t a skill, it’s a number from 1-20 which tells you how good a player is at moving into good positions. Hover your mouse over the number and it will describe what it does.

This is a useful thing for any footballer to be good at, but it is especially important for players in roles that ask them to move around the pitch, like a B2B midfielder, which is why the game will highlight that attribute as being important for that role but not for others.

The requirements of a role, the instructions you give the team, the instructions you give to individual players, the attributes a player has and the things a player has as preferred moves, all interact to determine what happens on the pitch.

What ‘hold position’ does is described in the game - hover your mouse over the words on the tactics screen. Your player will still move, but less so. Giving that instruction to a player with a high Off The Ball attribute would potentially be a waste of his ability, though that alone isn’t a reason not to do it. On the other hand if he has ‘gets forward whenever possible’ as a preferred move then this will clash with the instruction to hold position. What he then does depends on his teamwork, concentration and other characteristics.

A lot of this information is available in-game in the form of tooltips, role descriptions, highlighted role attributes and warnings (eg if a role instruction clashes with a player preferred move).