Should Determination, Work Rate, & Teamwork be hidden attributes?

[wazzaflow10]

WIthout knowing how much the AI relies on things like determination, work rate, and teamwork to select players to prioritize for transfers, I'm curious if anyone thinks these should be moved to hidden attributes to remove some of the "gamification" by human players of only selecting players with high values in each. Obviously these would be partially revealed in scouting if one was extraordinarily high or low. Just seems to me like its too easy to highly prioritize these "global" attributes when making your transfer policy.

Yes I'm aware there are skins that hide these, but I'm talking more fundamentally changing how you can interact with them too (i.e. not available to filter your scouting reports by these attributes).

[RHKC]

It does seem strange that attributes such as 'Professionalism' and 'Consistency' are hidden but you can see 'Determination' freely.

[Freakiie]

As long as hidden attributes can still be snuffed out by a scout in 2 weeks hiding more stuff doesn't really make a difference. It'd just add a couple more red flags to potentially pay attention to in the scout report.

[enigmatic]

Can't see why Work Rate, one of the most obvious things to spot IRL should be hidden.

Human players overrate those attributes almost as much as the AI underrates them...

 

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Determination should probably be a pro/con but not teamwork or workrate. Coaches can see that. 

[Poison]

Umm... they are all plain to see? All three of them? I don't think they should be hidden, no.

[phnompenhandy]

They can all be seen by a scout. Determination - how determined the player is to fight when the team is behind, Work Rate - how hard he chases around, tracks back, goes in for 50/50s, Teamwork - clue is in the name in this one also - is he selfish or does he play for the team? If he's your player, does he follow your team instructions?

On the other hand, things like Professionalism and Consistency cannot be seen by watching him for a match or two - you need to know him as a person to gauge these things.

[wazzaflow10]

14 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

They can all be seen by a scout. Determination - how determined the player is to fight when the team is behind, Work Rate - how hard he chases around, tracks back, goes in for 50/50s, Teamwork - clue is in the name in this one also - is he selfish or does he play for the team? If he's your player, does he follow your team instructions?

On the other hand, things like Professionalism and Consistency cannot be seen by watching him for a match or two - you need to know him as a person to gauge these things.

Yes I realize that but should the raw number be hidden like Professionalism and consistency? We can't see those but we know what player personalities are with minimal scouting. The idea isn't that its unrealistic for a scout to observe them and provide a manager a low, normal, high value. Its the micromanaging/fixation of the attribute and prevent using some sort of game meta transfer policy, i.e. no players with below 15 determination or work rate or teamwork.

Honestly, determination is really the attribute I think should be hidden more than workrate and teamwork given how it can govern all the other attributes much like consistency. Unless, of course, my understanding of how determination works is wrong.

Edited November 29, 2023 by wazzaflow10

[AurioDK]

Depends on the type of player, CR7 was known to all from an extremely young age as extremely ambitious and his determination wasn´t hidden, the guy trained at home and everywhere he went, never did hide it. He was very determined to succeed, I don´t think anyone could ever doubt that whether you liked him or not.

More quiet players like Messi were far harder to figure out early on, only those close to him would know but in hindsight it seems he was more than determined.

I do understand the controversy as many youth players fail their promising start due to the lack of determination, they buckle under the pressure and fail to sustain their performances after a little media praise, something which surprises some and can´t always be known.

I have worked as a youth coach for OB (Odense) and the determination of a player was actually easy to spot once you are close to each individual.

 

[kingjericho]

Teamwork and workrate should definitely remain visible, they're an "observable" attribute just like pace, bravery, or first touch.

[trviggo]

On 28/11/2023 at 21:52, RHKC said:

It does seem strange that attributes such as 'Professionalism' and 'Consistency' are hidden but you can see 'Determination' freely.

Presumably the idea is that you learn about a player's professionalism by interacting with him and his training rating, and consistency by well, how consistent they are. Ideally all attributes should be hidden like they are, but until the game has in-depth training analysis that's rather unreasonable. Thus attributes that you'd have to be on the training pitch with them to learn about, like Determination, remains on display. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by trviggo